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Moravian Minister with 15 year old girl

 
Headley 2016-12-30 18:39:34 

Bravos, when I saw this story I thought it was a recounting of the Trinidad story of a month or so ago.

Link here

These men should be shown no leniency.

 
XFactor 2016-12-30 23:13:33 

In reply to Headley

Why do you find this so awful, when the molestation rate amongst Christian Pastors is far lower than the general population?

 
Chrissy 2016-12-31 05:20:08 

In reply to XFactor

Why do you defend this crap?

This is disgusting

 
black 2016-12-31 07:28:01 

In reply to Chrissy

Why do you defend this crap?

This is disgusting


Some people look at this as an attack on their religion, it's not an attack on religion, it's criminal behavior and should be treated as such.

When it became known that children were being molested in the Catholic Church, the authorities move too slowly, allowing the Church to hide these criminals by moving them to different dioceses and dragging their feet with information.

Whenever crimes are committed, law enforcement should move in right away and take control of the investigation.

 
Headley 2016-12-31 08:45:48 

In reply to XFactor

the molestation rate amongst Christian Pastors is far lower than the general population?


Good point!

I will withhold further comment until the Christian pastors catch up. They may be old but it seems they have more opportunities (to abuse) so I expect them to catch up quickly. evil

 
Headley 2016-12-31 08:49:28 

In reply to black

it's criminal behavior and should be treated as such.


I hope they quickly learn the meaning of statutory rape.

 
Ridge 2016-12-31 08:53:59 

Only in Jamaica.
The world capital for crime. cry

 
Drapsey 2016-12-31 08:57:04 

In reply to Ridge

Only in Jamaica.
The world capital for crime.

Wasn't there a similar story reported for T&T a couple weeks ago?

 
Headley 2016-12-31 09:06:18 

In reply to Drapsey

All of us are concerned with crime, especially when perpetrated by those who take advantage of positions of trust.

Ridge's concern just happens to be accompanied by a separate agenda.

 
Chrissy 2016-12-31 09:28:03 

In reply to black

Precisely - look my favourite cousin was President of the Moravian Church - I'm glad he didn't live to see this.

 
nitro 2016-12-31 10:40:16 

In reply to Headley

Let the man have his day in court before we jump to a conclusion. Remember O.J. Simpson? Some on this thread blasting the pastor even celebrated the 20th anniversary of that day.

 
camos 2016-12-31 10:55:21 

In reply to nitro

and the little girl? I am a youth coach ,one the rules of the club is " never be alone with a kid" rolleyes

 
bravos 2016-12-31 11:20:08 

In reply to Headley

Yeah and I know a Yahweh man who does the same here,he always buying new van every series too!! Have new Ranger and new Hilux over 300k TT each with every possible useless and vain extra..always robbing his lil uneducated flock and always trying to screw poor women and their teen daughters in the countryside after giving them peanuts,man was getting like my padna and tell me some real twisted things bout men women and business dat not even ah ole gyalist businessman like me go even fathom,that helped me to make my move.I was a Yahweh man for about 2 years!! Then I realize de man wanta bull anything that move and always on some under low vibes and always on the money,his collections are like auctions as he tries to increase it,"who have a $40 again,$50...who saying $100"...man dem need some bible chop lol...j/k....but I'm sick of them and they should be scrutinized and regulated...

 
Headley 2016-12-31 11:40:00 

In reply to bravos

Religious charlatans. One was recently exposed in Bim. He was so righteous that he led a breakaway faction of his church. The original church was not 'strict' enough for him.

BTW there was a pastor in Puna who used to have a foreign exchange collection. big grin

 
camos 2016-12-31 11:47:33 

In reply to Headley

foreign exchange collection


lol lol lol

 
bravos 2016-12-31 11:49:40 

In reply to Headley

You know them well lol...it's so sad that in the 21st century people taking dat ride..people love to be ridden..and it's all a reflection of the selfishness that has pervaded society,it's all about 'blessings' and the idiots feel they can purchase them,and the pastors selling them..ie 'financial services','business services' etc..man I get ketch wid dat and started putting down thousands,and when I look around de man driving better van dan me and my big son!!...never me again...lol poor dem..

 
Headley 2016-12-31 11:57:25 

In reply to nitro

What happens in court is a legal matter. I can only hope he is convicted of statutory rape.

What was happening in his parked car was abuse of a minor. Are you suggesting that he was giving the child religious lessons?

 
nitro 2016-12-31 16:19:54 

In reply to Headley

I am not defending the man. Did you see him molesting the young lady?

 
Headley 2016-12-31 18:25:02 

In reply to nitro

What happens in court is a legal matter. I can only hope he is convicted of statutory rape.


I thought that was the purpose of the criminal trial? Unless I am giving evidence in court what is the legal relevance of your question?

BTW whether or not you are defending him is irrelevant and will not affect the price of chicken wings in Princess St.

What is relevant is that he was found by the police in a compromising position when he should have been in a position of trust. Do you find that difficult to understand?

 
nitro 2017-01-01 07:55:46 

In reply to Headley
I understand the situation looks terrible and if he is guilty he should be dealt with harshly.

 
Ayenmol 2017-01-01 08:27:11 

5 having an appearance of godliness but proving false to its power; and from these turn away. 6 From among these arise men who slyly work their way into households and captivate weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires, 7 always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.


2Timothy 3:5-7.

Cannot be any clearer.

 
Headley 2017-01-01 10:46:24 

In reply to Ayenmol

Cannot be any clearer.


My friend put down the bible and think. These are not
weak women loaded down with sins
. If the pastors were having relationships with
weak women loaded down with sins
I for one would not care a flying duck.


My sole concern is that these so called leaders and authority figures are preying on minors.

BTW In my world minors are not the same as 'weak women loaded down with sins'.

 
Ayenmol 2017-01-01 15:38:02 

In reply to Headley

Am not sure what your point is...would you consider a child to be weaker than a grown woman...is the scripture referring to women particularly or just that people will prey on the weak even while presenting themselves as a protector.
You all act like this is new. Politicians do it, Coaches do it, teachers do it. All demented people.

There also is an overwhelming suggestion that because someone says he represents God that it is so.

21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’


Matthew 7:21-23.

 
XDFIX 2017-01-01 16:10:37 

It happens in all professions and ought to be condemned!

 
Headley 2017-01-01 16:24:24 

In reply to Ayenmol

My sole concern is that these so called leaders and authority figures are preying on minors.


You're still not sure what my point is?

The fact that the perpetrator is a man who should be instilling moral values in children makes the crime even worse. I hope the judge is someone with similar views to mine.


It seems your point is to misuse scriptures to obfuscate the fact that the S.O.B. was a pastor.

 
bravos 2017-01-01 16:46:28 

In reply to Headley

Why are you surprised,women are but chattel in the eyes of that decrepit ancient franchise and it's subscribers.

De man can't even bring himself to defend his mother,daughter,sister,wife etc..did you know according to their teachings, for at least 7 days a month our lovely mothers,daughters,sisters and wives are considered festering sacks of effluent contaminating valuable cushioning bedding and garments in their wakes,I wonder what they are on other days,balls grabbers perhaps?

See for yourself below,there's no reasoning with such folk,remember de oman make de man eat de blasted mischievously placed low hanging fruit after having a convo with a talking snake,and remember she already cost Adam a rib after all mighty all powerful all knowing god realized that just maybe he might be lonely,so she deserves it!! Such witchcraft..Pleh..

When a woman has a discharge, if her discharge in her body is blood, she shall continue in her menstrual impurity for seven days; and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening. Everything also on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean, and everything on which she sits shall be unclean. Leviticus 15: 19-20

When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand. Deuteronomy 25:11-12

 
black 2017-01-01 18:25:28 

In reply to bravos

When a woman has a discharge, if her discharge in her body is blood, she shall continue in her menstrual impurity for seven days; and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening. Everything also on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean, and everything on which she sits shall be unclean. Leviticus 15: 19-20

When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand. Deuteronomy 25:11-12


This stuff is a reflection of the ignorance and stupidity of the people that wrote it.

 
XDFIX 2017-01-01 18:48:39 

In reply to Headley

Yah, u right, Christians ought to be judged at higher standards even though the naysayers continue to claim there is no God!

 
bravos 2017-01-01 20:17:26 

In reply to XDFIX

No the naysayers are saying "despite it being their version of the truth it's an insult to right thinking mammals".

The naysayers are saying don't tell me you have some relationship with god because you talk to yourself at times,we talk to ourselves at times too and don't claim to know god"

The naysayers are also saying,"yet again we do not buy this version of god and are not convinced that this is the answer and are actually the ones working hard at and actually doing a better job at piecing together the puzzle that is our existence and at the same time progressing our species"

And the naysayers are saying,"if you claim you are of god and you are spreading his word and ministry is it too much to ask for people of just basic decency to be in the charges,can't the deity they tout and it's proponents at least get that right"?

The naysayers are also saying," each and every year goes by their god is given less and less responsibility and we are to believe that despite gospels making it very clear who's in charge".


The naysayers are also saying,"thank god no one actually took it all seriously else we all would've still been waiting to be redeemed while we spare no thought for the morrow tending to our sheep and this conversation would not have been possible".

The naysayers say to tell you they really fed up of the stupidity now,and if they know god please do a better job at convincing them,and sorry but it is their 'god given' ability to reason and rationalize equips them to be skeptical and eternally thirsty for real knowledge and real progress.


Don't crucify the messenger. redface

 
bravos 2017-01-01 20:18:08 

In reply to black

Yep and they want such to be my mantra.I'm having none of it...dem haffi come better than that..

 
Ayenmol 2017-01-01 20:24:53 

In reply to bravos

The naysayers are also saying,"yet again we don't not buy this version of god and are not convinced that this is the answer and are actually the ones working hard at and actually doing a better job at piecing together the puzzle that is our existence"


Really? Pray tell!

 
Headley 2017-01-01 20:44:14 

In reply to XDFIX

Yah, u right, Christians ought to be judged at higher standards even though the naysayers continue to claim there is no God!


It seems that there is a lot of uncertainty on the part of some folks (including some here on this MB) about the morality and the ethics that a male pastor should bring to the interaction with a 15 year old girl. My hope is that the judge will send an unambiguous message to assist those who are uncertain.

15 years has a nice ring to it.

 
Ayenmol 2017-01-01 20:53:17 

In reply to bravos

Am waiting for your specific and precise explanation of how we came to be....

You all remind me of the Obamacare situation....it's the worst we must stop it...but there is no replacement.

 
pelon 2017-01-01 21:52:37 

In reply to Ayenmol

Am waiting for your specific and precise explanation of how we came to be


They are two explanations on the table.

See them as Exhibit A and B

One of them is faith based. One is not.
One of them is based on the word of a deity/divinity/herders/apostles, that was not universal then, nor now. The other is not based on divinity.
One of them relies on a single document. The other does not.
One has been told the same way for centuries. The other is systematically evaluating all evidence as it unfolds.
One is static. The other is not.

Celebrate that you believe in faith based explanations... and learn to respect those that do not.

You don't need an open mind to believe in the word of god, but you surely need one to evaluate facts

 
black 2017-01-01 22:02:21 

In reply to pelon

Well said.

 
Ayenmol 2017-01-01 22:03:03 

In reply to pelon

I have no problem with yhat. I have tried to be respectful, even in the face of ridicule.

But i also gave a responsibility to speak about my God. I will always do that proudly.

17 “Son of man, I have appointed you as a watchman to the house of Israel; and when you hear a word from my mouth, you must warn them from me. 18 When I say to someone wicked, ‘You will surely die,’ but you do not warn him, and you fail to speak in order to warn the wicked one to turn from his wicked course so that he may stay alive, he will die for his error because he is wicked, but I will ask his blood back from you. 19 But if you warn someone wicked and he does not turn back from his wickedness and from his wicked course, he will die for his error, but you will certainly save your own life.

 
spider 2017-01-02 00:13:10 

In reply to Ridge

Why do you say only in Jamaica? You must know this happens all over. What did the Catholic priests do to the little boys in US?

I know the Minister quite well and it is shocking to me. But I guess these kinds of things shouldn't shock us any more.

 
camos 2017-01-02 08:56:37 

In reply to spider

how is his wife taking this?

 
granite 2017-01-02 08:59:29 

I knew many over 20 boys who had 14 and 15 year old girls,is that also a bad thing.

 
pelon 2017-01-02 10:14:42 

In reply to granite

very much so.

 
bravos 2017-01-02 14:19:27 

In reply to pelon

Thank you sir for sharing the gift of perspective.. cool

 
black 2017-01-02 14:32:29 

In reply to granite

I knew many over 20 boys who had 14 and 15 year old girls,is that also a bad thing.


Requires parental approval. Minors cannot give consent.

 
bravos 2017-01-02 14:45:51 

Please not the Catholic church!!! Doh go dey!!

 
Headley 2017-01-02 17:52:12 

In reply to black

Nobody can give approval, not even parents, for a minor to perform or participate in any sexual act.

Once an adult participates in any sexual conduct with a minor its a crime and could be statutory rape.

Minors with minors is a separate issue.

 
Headley 2017-01-02 17:59:12 

Weeping worshipers.

 
black 2017-01-02 18:05:19 

In reply to Headley

Nobody can give approval, not even parents, for a minor to perform or participate in any sexual act.

Once an adult participates in any sexual conduct with a minor its a crime and could be statutory rape.

Minors with minors is a separate issue.


No, that's not what I am saying. In cases where minors have relationships with an adult and eventual marriage, the parents have to give consent. It's happens all the time, maybe you are not aware of it.

If it's happening without the parents knowledge, it's illegal.

 
Headley 2017-01-02 18:14:29 

In reply to black

where minors have relationships with an adult and eventual marriage


Pardner this is illegal anywhere a common law system is in effect.

Marriage does not fix rape. Assuming the man is the rapist, it creates a situation where the wife has the option not to give evidence.

I hope this does not put you in legal jeopardy. big grin

 
black 2017-01-02 18:14:32 

In reply to Headley

I know people who got married below the legal age. It happens in Guyana and the States.

 
black 2017-01-02 18:17:41 

In reply to Headley

Pardner this is illegal anywhere a common law system is in effect.


I guess the law assumes that they are not having sex but it happens.

 
black 2017-01-02 18:19:37 

In reply to Headley

I hope this does not put you in legal jeopardy.


I never forced myself on a grown woman much less a child.

 
Headley 2017-01-02 18:35:27 

In reply to black

I know people who got married below the legal age. It happens in Guyana and the States.


I know people who do drugs too. It happens in Guyana and the States. big grin

 
black 2017-01-02 18:55:19 

In reply to Headley

Here dude

 
Headley 2017-01-02 19:10:54 

In reply to black

I hope you actually read what you posted. big grin

 
np 2017-01-02 19:20:56 

In reply to Headley

15 years has a nice ring to it.
that or more ... string up that facter. I hold no sorrow for men like that ....
Or do as the biblical days stone him to his last breath... I'd fling the first ROCK.

 
black 2017-01-02 19:22:08 

In reply to Headley

I'll say this, in most cases it involves teenagers who dated as teens and the male is now of adult age.

 
XDFIX 2017-01-02 21:03:06 

In reply to np


‘Jesus saved me from the hangman’, ex-con testifies on New Year’s Eve


Link Text

 
np 2017-01-02 21:18:23 

In reply to XDFIX

Link won't work for me ...??

 
Headley 2017-01-02 21:23:34 

In reply to black

Nobody can give approval, not even parents, for a minor to perform or participate in any sexual act.

Once an adult participates in any sexual conduct with a minor its a crime and could be statutory rape.

Minors with minors is a separate issue.


I will repeat once and then I will stop because I have no intention of discussing the common law governing marriage in each of the 50 states of the US.

Minors with minors is a separate issue.

 
np 2017-01-02 21:26:32 

In reply to XDFIX

But if I'm guessing right at where you are going ...

I was saved once --- at birth as a 7 month premie weighing in at just over 1lb ,
My mom was a nurse at UWI.

I give thanks Itinually to the good Drs and nurses back then for saving me, and no one else!!

But I'm not like everyone else.

 
Headley 2017-01-02 21:37:39 

In reply to np

NP if a man is worthless I can accept that there are some things he will do. Before high school I lived in a little town where a pastor's wife was sickly and the pastor used to spend time with a lady who lived fairly close to his house, especially if you walked through the bush behind his house to hers.

I was 10 years old and I knew that, so we can assume every adult knew. He was a worthless man but people understood.

What I cannot understand is why the arrested Moravian minister could not find an adult to satisfy his desires. Black River and Santa Cruz or even Mandeville have plenty 'ladies' who would have gladly taken his money.

That man should 'loss wey' in jail.

 
black 2017-01-02 21:42:38 

In reply to Headley

Minors with minors is a separate issue.


Read what I said above, in most cases it involves teenagers, ONE of them is of adult age, the other is not.

Look, don't get the wrong impression, I am dead set against adults having relationship with teenagers, I'm just telling you what the law says.

What this Pastor was engaging in, would not shelter him from the law.

 
Headley 2017-01-02 21:45:42 

In reply to black

Unlike adults minors do not remain in that state for life.

 
Headley 2017-01-10 09:18:47 



Thompson urged the church to deal with the perpetrator Clarke and guess what? Clarke was not disciplined but Thompson was subsequently terminated. Who the church protecting,innocent children or the Moravian church?

The dismissal of Thompson who tried to urge the church to act with decency and the subsequent finding of Minister Clarke 'in the act of giving dictation to a minor' could almost lead one to believe there is a God.

BTW I am not suggesting that the Moravians are any worse than the other denominations. They are all equally culpable.

 
nitro 2017-01-10 11:14:12 

In reply to Headley

Jamaica, what can i say. Politicians, police, pastors. Who can the people trust?

No wonder they have a surging murder rate.

 
nitro 2017-01-10 11:15:20 

In reply to Headley

Oh i forgot another P, that school principal.

 
camos 2017-01-10 11:27:50 

In reply to nitro

the principal has acted within the laws.

 
nitro 2017-01-10 11:34:59 

In reply to camos

I never said she broke any laws.

 
rudebway 2017-01-10 15:51:34 

In reply to Headley

Rumor is that the pastor is involved in a relationship with the girls 17 year old sister...and apparently decided he wanted a piece of the 15 year old too. Will be interesting when all the facts come out

 
nitro 2017-01-10 19:50:04 

In reply to rudebway

It is alleged that he has a 3 year old child with the 22 year old sister, was having an affair with the 17 year old and was caught with the 15 year old.

This is a devil of a pastor!

 
Walco 2017-01-10 20:40:51 

In reply to Headley

Once an adult participates in any sexual conduct with a minor its a crime and could be statutory rape.


Agreed, but the minor must be below the age of consent for the act to be criminal. The age of consent in T&T is 18, but it's 16 in Jamaica. I would argue a 16 year old is a minor.