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so how did His death save us???

 
DAVE400 2017-04-14 12:21:54 

I can never understand this claim.

 
DAVE400 2017-04-14 12:22:43 

And I we are all God's children how come He is the only begotten son???

 
DAVE400 2017-04-14 12:24:00 

Why do we need a Holy Ghost if we have the father and the son?

 
DAVE400 2017-04-14 12:24:35 

Why do we pray to God ..then ask Mary to pray for us too??

 
black 2017-04-14 12:28:26 

In reply to DAVE400

Ayenmol is going to answer all of it, he is the Bill Nye of religion.

 
Kay 2017-04-14 12:28:36 

Why do we have to go to church when we can more conveniently pray at home?

 
Ayenmol 2017-04-14 12:51:42 

Jesus is the only begotten son because he is the only one created directly by Jehovah God.

The Holy Spirit is God`s active force. It is not a person.

The Bible says that Jesus, by means of his ransom sacrifice, buys us back from sin and death. Which is why we pray to God thru Christ. He is the mediator who gave his life as a propitiatory sacrifice.

Nowhere in the Bible does it ask that we pray through anyone else!

We lost perfect life because of the sin of our first parents. We needed the ransom of a perfect person because of God's righteous standards. Thus we can approach God and gain forgiveness of our sins because Christ who has no sin died.
Death is a consequence of sin so a sinless man dying has great power...make that God's only begotten son and you have a death that redeems mankind!

 
sgtdjones 2017-04-14 12:55:27 

In reply to DAVE400

So the Vatican in Rome can get richer.

Didnt u know dat ? shock

 
googley 2017-04-14 13:05:17 

In reply to Ayenmol


We lost perfect life because of the sin of our first parents.



why do i have to pay for the sins of others? how is that fair?

 
cricketmad 2017-04-14 14:32:43 

He came to save us when there were no ballistic missiles , nuclear bombs and various weapons of mass destruction .We need saving now more than ever yet we can't hear from him.

 
black 2017-04-14 14:40:13 

In reply to Ayenmol

Jesus is the only begotten son because he is the only one created directly by Jehovah God.


Where is the evidence?

The Holy Spirit is God`s active force. It is not a person.


We all know what a ghost is, why is it/he necessary?

We lost perfect life because of the sin of our first parents. We needed the ransom of a perfect person because of God's righteous standards. Thus we can approach God and gain forgiveness of our sins because Christ who has no sin died.
Death is a consequence of sin so a sinless man dying has great power...make that God's only begotten son and you have a death that redeems mankind


So if my sin is forgiven, why do I have to die?

 
runout 2017-04-14 21:03:12 

Man allyuh taking practice at a soft target. Leave the people who want to believe believe what they want to believe.

 
nick2020 2017-04-14 21:06:02 

In reply to Kay

Why do we have to go to church when we can more conveniently pray at home?


The church angled itself as the passage to salvation. This is why many a pastor drive a big ride to big house. Why you think the congregation is referred to as flock? Does get fleece.

 
nick2020 2017-04-14 21:07:01 

In reply to black

So if my sin is forgiven, why do I have to die?


If I take my multivitamins everyday I will still die. Who said forgiveness means you won't die?

 
powen001 2017-04-14 21:25:48 

When you guys get serious, those of you who are serious...all of the genuine questions will be answered ...

in the meantime...the rest of you can get through.

Corinthians

1

18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”[c]
20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

 
Emir 2017-04-14 21:33:53 

In reply to DAVE400

You are free to not believe or reject Christianity, but don't get offended and all bent out of shape when someone criticize your Hinduism and its "strange practices."

 
nitro 2017-04-14 21:50:06 

In reply to powen001

Why do you believe the stories in the Bible?

 
bravos 2017-04-14 22:00:05 

Not this shit again..steups!

Good question by op though..

 
bravos 2017-04-14 22:02:25 

In reply to Kay

Why do we have to go to church when we can more conveniently pray at home?


Massa haffi eat,the good lord cannot provideth for his 'humble' servants and touts,they need paper money..soo much for milk, honey and mannah...yuck!

 
black 2017-04-14 22:26:02 

In reply to nick2020

If I take my multivitamins everyday I will still die. Who said forgiveness means you won't die?


But you are not God.

 
Ewart 2017-04-14 22:49:23 

In reply to powen001

Thanks.

Let me add this from John 6:

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

//

 
Ayenmol 2017-04-15 07:09:28 

1 John 4: 9,10...

“By this the love of God was revealed in our case, that God sent his only-begotten Son into the world so that we might gain life through him. The love is in this respect, not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins.”

 
DAVE400 2017-04-15 08:12:26 

In reply to Ayenmol

Forgive what sins?? Save how?

So between noah and Christ...what happen to all those souls who died?

Samuel?
Job?
David?
Solomon?


They all sinned.

 
black 2017-04-15 08:51:34 

In reply to DAVE400

Dude, these people want you to believe in something that have a million questions, unanswered.

 
sgtdjones 2017-04-15 09:51:26 

In reply to black

God has been conceived as either personal or impersonal.
In theism, God is the creator and sustainer of the universe,
while in deism, God is the creator, but not the sustainer, of the universe.
In pantheism, God is the universe itself.
In atheism, God is not believed to exist,
while God is deemed unknown or unknowable within the context of agnosticism.
God has also been conceived as the source of all moral obligation, and the "greatest conceivable existent".
Many notable philosophers have developed arguments for and against the existence of God.

Quoted above

This is my belief

God is deemed unknown or unknowable within the context of agnosticism.

 
Khaga 2017-04-15 10:00:18 

In reply to Emir



You are free to not believe or reject Christianity, but don't get offended and all bent out of shape when someone criticize your Hinduism and its "strange practices."


Well, your trucking isn't a strange practice..

 
Gun_Play 2017-04-15 10:25:36 

In reply to DAVE400

They must be a God or someone or something that's responsible for making us.

The world is too complex, the universe is too complex, the human body... look at how much it takes for our planet to function... The gases an minerals needed to support life on this planet.

Gravity in itself is an absolutely brilliant creation.
To tell me that Gravity just happened or wasn't created by something/someone with way more knowledge than us is absolutely ludicrous.

Look at how complex the human eye is... They are still some functions of the human eye which scientist have yet to explain how it works.

After looking at some of the complexities required for us to function I have no doubt that we were created.

So believing in a God or a creator seems more plausible than not believing, in my opinion.

 
FuzzyWuzzy 2017-04-15 10:29:35 

In reply to Gun_Play

Is it possible to believe all you just said but not believe that stuff ayenmol, etc quoted?

 
DAVE400 2017-04-15 10:38:20 

In reply to Gun_Play

I believe in God....and I believe He is waaaaay more accessible and experiential to us than having to wait on Him when we die or when we resurrect...

My idea of God (and I am totally okay if you disagree) is that hidden hand that guides us in our actions...that swift unthinking action in the best of our situations...

For those of you who played sport, think of your best moments and how auto-pilot and "undeliberate" it felt...

If you have ever had to act fast to save yourself or others...try to recall making conscious act....

I am sure we have all experienced this....decisive, efficient, flawless action without thought...


Does this mean I can communicate with God? I dunno...does it mean that we even need language? Certainly not..

Can God even be personified....I highly doubt it....

But there is a good force in this universe...unexplainable, even by science, totally accessible and only reached through TRUE intuition...

 
Gun_Play 2017-04-15 10:43:28 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Yes, every person who believes in a creator doesn't believe in Christianity.

 
Gun_Play 2017-04-15 11:05:41 

In reply to DAVE400

Well said... very insightful.

I've never viewed God or being able to communicate with God from that perspective.

All subjective though... both what you've said and what I said.

In the end it all comes down to belief.

And there's only one book, written thousands of years ago, which expresses the need for a belief in a creator who cannot be physically proven.

So with my limited knowledge I can chose to believe my existence just happened or there was some big explosion that caused all this.

Or I can choose to believe a book that tells me I was created by an all knowing God who's knowledge surpasses my own and is beyond my understanding.

My limited knowledge doesn't allow me to accept that life's complexities just happened, or it was caused by a big bang or evolution from Monkeys.

Thus, I choose to believe in a God/Creator.
Someone who's knowledge an abilities exceeds human understanding. big grin

 
analyst-kid 2017-04-15 15:19:08 

In reply to DAVE400

So between noah and Christ...what happen to all those souls who died?

Samuel?
Job?
David?
Solomon?


They all sinned.


Although I worship with Jehovah Witness...some of my friends have not agreed with me on this scripture: Matthew 27 50-53

.50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.

51 Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth quaked, and the rocks were split, 52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection, they went into the holy city and appeared to many.


1. this scripture explains that the curtain split in two meant no more do we have to rely on priests and sacrifice to confer with God as symbolised by the curtain seperating access to the holy sanctuary in the temple.It is now through Christ we approach Jehovah...(this is agreed by my JW)

The scripture also states that the holy ones who died before Christ (Samuel,David,Job, Daniel etc) were raised at his death (which released them from the Grave as he will do to the others when he comes the Second Time)and they eventually were translated to heaven to be counted among the 144000 who are set to rule this earth with King Jesus.

 
DAVE400 2017-04-15 18:41:47 

Okay...so is the end goal to be part of the 144000? Well today there are over a few million Jay Dubyas...

You saying their chance of being chosen sucks?

You would think with such a finite space they would spend less time "saving" others.

 
black 2017-04-15 18:59:16 

In reply to DAVE400

You would think with such a finite space they would spend less time "saving" others.


Good point.

 
analyst-kid 2017-04-15 19:14:30 

In reply to DAVE400

Humans were always meant to reside here on earth...this 144000 is the numbered appointed ones to assist Jesus in ruling over the millions on this earth.

 
DAVE400 2017-04-15 20:49:25 

In reply to analyst-kid

So is just a power trip this 144000?

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-15 22:43:23 

In reply to DAVE400

He fell for your sins. lol

 
black 2017-04-15 22:55:50 

In reply to SnoopDog

Why are people engaging in these stupid reenactments? lol lol lol

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-15 23:45:10 

In reply to black

That wasn't a reenactment Bro. That was exclusive video footage of the crucifixion obtained by time traveller John Titor. lol

 
black 2017-04-16 00:01:22 

In reply to SnoopDog

lol lol lol

 
DAVE400 2017-04-16 07:57:00 

In reply to Ayenmol

The Holy Spirit is God`s active force. It is not a person.


And this is where we agree....beyond that I need no more comprehension of God.

 
Ayenmol 2017-04-16 08:28:19 

2 Thessalonians 3:

3 Finally, brothers, carry on prayer for us, that the word of Jehovah may keep moving speedily and being glorified just as it is in fact with YOU; 2 and that we may be delivered from harmful and wicked men, for faith is not a possession of all people. 3 But the Lord is faithful, and he will make YOU firm and keep YOU from the wicked one.

 
analyst-kid 2017-04-16 12:46:22 

In reply to DAVE400

From Day One Jesus will always telling his faithful disciples they will be with him to rule the Kingdom on Earth given to him by his Father Jehovah.

144000 are the chosen ones, the apostles the saints the holy ones who will be princes under King Jesus to assist him in ruling this earth.

By their virtues they were appointed...how does this get to be a power trip?

 
bravos 2017-04-16 13:04:54 

WHO CREATED GOD? His god mommy and daddy?

People stop wasting your lives,'god' isn't what you think and desires no relationship with primates,how demeaning,how arrogant of smelly primates to believe that some 'god'cares about their petty mammalian squabbles and socio/geo-political issues..

Pathetic...

You guys are fools simple..you wasting your lives with that story book,your life is based on lies,poor allyuh.


God bless..

 
Ayenmol 2017-04-16 14:41:37 

In reply to bravos

There are so many things we cannot see that we are certain exist. Air, Electricity, we know these things exist because we can see evidence of their existence. We can also see evidence that the invisible God exist. From the way we are made to the Universe to His Word the Bible. Additionally Worshipers of Jehovah are able to see his hand in accomplishing the work he has given us to do. Even in the face of much persecution, while ourselves never being violent or Politically active, God's Organization continues to grow in leaps and bounds. All while never compromising Jehovah's righteous standards.

 
Ayenmol 2017-04-16 15:44:31 

Romans 3:

4 Certainly not! But let God be found true, even if every man be found a liar, just as it is written: “That you might be proved righteous in your words and might win when you are being judged.”

 
powen001 2017-04-16 19:31:29 

In reply to DAVE400

I believe in God....and I believe He is waaaaay more accessible and experiential to us than having to wait on Him when we die or when we resurrect..



He is...I dont know where you got this WAIT UNTIL YOU DIE STUFF FROM tho.

 
powen001 2017-04-16 19:33:19 

I can almost close my eyes and guarantee that the overwhelming majority of persons on this MB have never read a BIBLE...or never had a proper engagement where you are honestly seeking to understand what you are reading.

 
powen001 2017-04-16 19:34:47 

In reply to Ayenmol

BLUP BLUP BLUP...to coin a phrase

 
Kay 2017-04-16 20:06:10 

In reply to powen001

Religion is not bad, you guys got a great product. You all just got to cut out the big middlemen like THESE who are professional con men

Even the small touts that go door to door and rankle folks for a small change are a big nuisance. If the product is that great people will go looking for it, no need to push it down their throats at a cost...

 
bravos 2017-04-16 20:25:08 

In reply to powen001

I can almost close my eyes and guarantee that the overwhelming majority of persons on this MB have never read a BIBLE...or never had a proper engagement where you are honestly seeking to understand what you are reading.


Something so important should be very easy to understand in it's quest to convince. Only when an offering is based on confusion conflict and obvious flaws then understanding becomes subjective interpretation,the god that is being thrust upon me seems to have fallen behind when compared to basic and developed human decency of the 21st century.

The two main components of the bible wickedness and love are innately human and not some divine mystery,though the wickedness and suffering prescribed and delivered by god in the bible is stronger than the message of basic human decency and love.

The sooner you and others realize that you have been lied to and swindled all your lives the sooner you would start to really live.

Peace be unto you my brother,and good luck.

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-17 00:32:33 

In reply to bravos

Praise be the glory! He is risen! lol

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-17 00:42:44 

In reply to Kay

"Religion was invented when the first conman met the first fool" - attributed to Mark Twain

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-17 02:03:41 

In reply to black

He can't even take the fcuking escalator but people want him to take the wheel. lol lol lol

 
Norm 2017-04-17 04:48:35 

I am always amazed at how those with no knowledge of religion - self-declared anti-religion types - would always take over a discussion of religion and try to piss all over the subject. It reminds me of Americans, with no knowledge of cricket, who would contribute nothing to a discussion about cricket, except to try to put it down in every possible way.

The claim that Jesus's death would save mankind spiritually is central to the Christian faith. From a logical perspective the idea has serious flaws.
(1) If the spirit survives human death, then why would it need to be saved?
(2) If Jesus couldn't really die, then was his death really a sacrifice?
(3) Would who lived outside the reach of Christianity, both in time and space, not be at a disadvantage?

Notwithstanding the above issues, the possibility of superior intelligent beings existing and interacting with humans is logically very high. By the same token, humans could very well be currently incapable of understanding everything about such interaction.

 
Ayenmol 2017-04-17 06:53:02 

In reply to Norm

Very good questions. These are the very same questions that were asked by a few genuinely interested spiritual men in the 1800's that led to a deep study of the Bible to examine what it really teaches.

They found...

1. Man's is a soul and when he dies there is nothing that survives his death. His life force simply returns to the one who gives it.

2. Jesus is not God! But God's first creation. Thus like other spirit creatures he can die. And since death is a consequence of sin, then his death is a sacrifice because he was sinless.

3,.Jesus said that the Good news has to be preached in all the Earth before the end. That is being done today! Visit the website jw.org and see evidence of that!

Also the Bible teaches that after Armageddon God's Kingdom will rule with Christ as King over the Earth. At that time both the righteous, those who died faithful to God and the unrighteous, those who died without having a fair opportunity to learn the truth about God, will be resurrected to life and be taught the truth. At the end of those thousand years Satan will be released from his abyss where he will have been placed by Christ after Armageddon. He will be allowed to tempt all those living in perfection on Earth ONCE MORE, BEFORE HIM AND All WHO FOLLOW HIM WILL Be DESTROYED ONCE AND For all!

 
powen001 2017-04-18 15:34:58 

In reply to bravos

Something so important should be very easy to understand in it's quest to convince.


actually...No.

The same book speaks to this...or maybe you prefer the variations of this answer from Garnett Silk or Bob Marley...

"Belly Full but them hungry",

When the water is running..the fool is thirsty...

The Bible says..they have ears but dont hear, eyes but dont see...

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-18 15:46:53 

In reply to Ayenmol

the Bible teaches that after Armageddon God's Kingdom will rule with Christ as King over the Earth. At that time both the righteous, those who died faithful to God and the unrighteous, those who died without having a fair opportunity to learn the truth about God, will be resurrected to life and be taught the truth. At the end of those thousand years Satan will be released from his abyss where he will have been placed by Christ after Armageddon. He will be allowed to tempt all those living in perfection on Earth ONCE MORE, BEFORE HIM AND All WHO FOLLOW HIM WILL Be DESTROYED ONCE AND For all!


Cue the credits. lol

 
analyst-kid 2017-04-18 16:09:02 

I have found one of the major reasons people find it so hard to embrace the WORD of GOD is that they do not want to humble themselves and accept him as Sovereign Creator and the Bible as his Word and accept the ransom sacrifice made by His Son.

In that they are actually embracing Satan's nature because he also refused to humble himself.

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-18 16:13:02 

In reply to analyst-kid

I have found one of the major reasons people find it so hard to embrace the WORD of GOD is that they found the ability to use their critical faculties and cast off Bronze Age superstition in favour of science and reason.


I couldn't agree with you more. lol

 
analyst-kid 2017-04-18 16:45:37 

In reply to SnoopDog

its the same thing. Science and Reason would tell you SCIENCE: they is a Creator and that REASON: his power is beyond our comprehension.

so you humble yourself to the CREATOR just like when you were a child and humbled yourself to Mummy and Daddy....you are a child of God AFTER all.

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-18 16:59:21 

In reply to analyst-kid

You must first humble yourself before the one true God - the Easter Bunny.

If you do that, then I'll humble myself before your god. Do we have a deal? big grin

 
pelon 2017-04-18 18:15:21 

In reply to Norm

Having read most of the bible, frequently over many years, It has served to strengthen my opinion that it is a two edge sword. One side is a brilliant guide for humanity, the other a viscous dichotomy of the chosen and the banished.

The bible is filled with mythology like any great body of text from antiquity. It is to be respect, but it also carries context.

The christian bible is religion as seen through the eyes of it's authors and editors. King James personally attended to his needs by crafting the document that we read as "The modern Bible".

When you throw out statements like: "they don't have any knowledge" of the bible, you would be SO WRONG. Most non-believers have evolved out of and not into religion through unfiltered quest. the instant you apply "faith" the conversation is personal and to be respected - but never FACT!

Why was the Apocrypha text removed?
Why are many of the miracles attributed to Moses, Jesus and others found in other Ancient text long before they walked on earth?

good brother Norm: Christianity is not the birth of religion, it is the birth of a NEW religion. One brought to our forefathers with a sword.

We get carried away with faith, in the hope that the promises will be fulfilled.

Good luck with that.

 
Outswinger 2017-04-18 18:26:52 

There are many questions here and some of them appear genuine quests for answers. One of those that seem to bowl most people middle stump is the validity of God; another is the disposition of the soul and what happens after death; also end-times events which we study in eschatology. It has to be understood that some things about God are mysterious though there is no question as to their truth.

Jesus - One must understand that he was both God and man. His death and resurrection pays the price for those sinners like me who believe in Him. No mere human could have paid the price for his own sins because 'the wages of sin is death'. Jesus conquered both death and sin. This physical death is not the one to be feared, it is the second death that one should fear.

Someone said that it is unfair to have to pay for someone else's sin. OK. I think that statement refers to original sin which every mortal human has because he is a descendant of Adam who sinned. Besides this though, everyone has those sins that he/she committed.

Christians are relieved of original sin in baptism. The remaining sins, those we commit, are paid for by Jesus who stands in our stead and takes the punishment for us, if we are saved by Him. That is why he died and rose again.

Does God really exist? Without going into a lot, there is His Word, the Bible, but do you really believe that the universe was created with all its vastness, the delicate balance of all the gases in the earth's atmosphere, your own extremely complex body and its functions, even the cells than make up plant and animal life, etc. by God or happened by accident? Ever studied a eukaryotic cell? If you went on a hiking trip and in the middle of a forest with nothing but vegetation around you happened on a beautiful house, would think that maybe there was a hurricane or earthquate and the wood of the trees somehow, in some way, collapsed and came together to form the house? If you saw a beautiful BMW on a highway, you think that maybe a gremlin and a yugo smashed up and created it? Ludicrous right? But we are to believe in the Big Bang Theory!

This physical life we are in is only part of the whole equation. We will all probably die, but physical death is a transition to something else, either paradise or hell. When you plant a seed, from it springs a beautiful plant, bigger and better than the seed. The seed is no more, for all intent and purposes it has died - ceases to exist.

You will continue to exist after physical death. The question is where and how? With Jesus or not? The good news is that you still have time to choose. What are YOU going to do?

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-18 21:08:58 

In reply to Outswinger

You have quite the imagination there my good man. big grin

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-18 21:24:30 

In reply to pelon

Let's get Kanye's take on this subject matter. lol

 
Norm 2017-04-19 14:37:34 

Will get back to this thought-provoking topic soon. Thanks to everyone for keeping the discussion decent.

Even SnoopDog is behaving! Wonders never cease - just like in the Bible. smile

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-19 14:44:09 

In reply to Norm

Wonders never cease - just like in the Bible.


Au contraire Batman!

After a certain Jew purportedly died on a cross two thousand years ago - the "wonders" in the Bible (men living to 900 years old, men living inside of a whale, bush fires talking to men, snakes talking to women and men, donkeys talking to men etc.) ceased altogether. lol

 
runout 2017-04-19 14:48:48 

Man...if belief is the elixir for a successful life, then so be it.

Different folks, different strokes. Many people find redemption in religion. They are sold on it. Who are we to question what works for them?

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-19 15:00:42 

In reply to runout

Man...if belief is the elixir for a successful life, then so be it.

Different folks, different strokes. Many people find redemption in religion. They are sold on it. Who are we to question what works for them?


That would be true if they kept their batshyte beliefs to themselves and to the confines and privacy of their homes.

But no, they want everyone to believe and live by their batshyte beliefs. They want Sharia law, they want creationism taught in public schools, they want prayer in public office, they want prayer in public schools, they want censorship and enforcement of blasphemy laws etc.

And when they don't get their way they blow shyte up, drive trucks into crowds, put death warrants on people's heads, shoot up newspaper offices and all kinds of really righteous, pious, and wholesome religious activities.

So fcuk no to letting these religious areseholes spread their bronze age superstitious shyte or letting their batshyte beliefs go unchallenged. cool

 
runout 2017-04-19 15:03:53 

In reply to SnoopDog

Ok bro you are not against religion, just against public expressions.

I am all for that.

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-19 15:08:35 

In reply to runout

That's right. People can worship Bigfoot for all I care. Just keep it to yourself and in your home.

We live in a secular democracy where there is a constitutional mandate to keep church and state separate. But lately, the parties of God are lobbying very strongly (especially in the US) to turn secular democracy into a fcuking theocracy like Saudi Arabia.

 
XFactor 2017-04-19 15:46:07 

In reply to SnoopDog

People can worship Bigfoot for all I care.


That's for people with a foot fetish. lol

Such a broad definitions of faith will lead you to an eternity in hell.

 
Ayenmol 2017-04-19 15:55:37 

In reply to SnoopDog

For all you care? Does not seem that way to me. You display more passion for not believing in God than those who claim they do!

At John 8:33,34 Jesus says this...

Then Jesus went on to say to the Jews who had believed him: “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.


Note that there is no mention of Religion. Just truth. When Satan slandered God in tempting Eve he was bent on misleading them. He knows God is Holy! Therefore as long as he got people to do anything unholy they could not please God.

The point? There is no distinction between those who claim to Worship God but believe in falsehoods, (Hellfire, immortality of the Soul, Triune God, etc) with those who choose not to believe at all! They are all subscribing to false belief.

verse 44
44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.


Truth originates with God, everything else originates with the Devil. Satan has done a masterful job muddying the issue. For those who want to serve God he has orchestrated a vast array of false beliefs to entrap them. For those disposed to disbelieving he has used the very same false Beliefs to provide a cover for their arrogance.

What's the saying?
The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.
Churchill.

 
black 2017-04-19 15:59:23 

In reply to Ayenmol

Note that there is no mention of Religion. Just truth. When Satan slandered God in tempting Eve he was bent on misleading them. He knows God is Holy! Therefore as long as he got people to do anything unholy they could not please God.


Why did God allow Satan to become so powerful? It makes no sense.

 
Ayenmol 2017-04-19 16:01:08 

In reply to black

Allow? He was a powerful angel. Why does God allow you to do what you do?

2 Peter 3...

7 But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people.


Jude 6...
6 And the angels who did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place, he has reserved with eternal bonds in dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.


All in time sir.

God has allowed sufficient time to put to rest the question raised by Satan and escalated by Adam and Eve's disobedience...Who has the right to rule Mankind?
And can anyone but Jehovah God succesfully rule mankind?

Since then man has tried all forms of Government and Political Structure. Which one has succeeded? When it is all said and done there will be no doubt as to who has the right to rule...not to Humans who gain God's favor or the multitudes of Angels looking on from Heaven.

The matter of God's Sovereignty will be put to rest forever. Powerful Angel and the arrogantly smug among us will be long gone.

Psalms 37:
Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there.
12 The wicked man plots against the righteous; He grinds his teeth at him. But Jehovah will laugh at him, For He knows that his day will come.


I will continue to do as the Psalmist...
34 Hope in Jehovah and follow his way,

 
googley 2017-04-19 16:42:46 

In reply to SnoopDog

I believe in me! wink

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-19 17:35:25 

In reply to googley

Yes Pundit Googs. I believe in you and all your other ten thousand gods. lol

 
Norm 2017-04-20 02:03:16 

In reply to Ayenmol

Thanks for the discussion, bro. We may not agree on everything, but I appreciate the focused discussion.

when he dies there is nothing that survives his death. His life force simply returns to the one who gives it.

Many believers, new and old, think that one's identity survives. They talk about loved ones re-uniting, etc, which requires that your identity survive (how else would you know who you were?). That contradicts the concept of one's life force returning to its source (and thus assuming the identity of the source).

since death is a consequence of sin, then his death is a sacrifice because he was sinless.


How could it be a sacrifice if God effectively guaranteed the return of life to Jesus (according to the Bible)? Did he lose something as a result of being "dead" for 3 days?

BTW, this was the original question of this thread!

Jesus said that the Good news has to be preached in all the Earth before the end.


That would require removing Muslim and Communist governments - both of which are quite unlikely today.

He will be allowed to tempt all those living in perfection on Earth ONCE MORE


Based on the book called Revelation, written by John of Patmos - to predict the doom of the Roman Empire, but then conveniently re-interpreted to refer to the doom of the world. Many Christians frequently attempt to stir up faith in this book, by claiming that it predicts current events, such as the formation and subsequent "failure" of the United Nations to solve the world's problems, etc.

The Book of Revelation, probably more than any other book in the Bible, causes criticism of the Bible as a whole, because it is abstract and incoherent. Organisations such as Jehovah's Witnesses have failed time and again to predict future events, using the contents of Revelation.

I believe there are significant amounts of historical truth in the entire Bible, including events such as the Flood, Exodus, etc, but Revelation is where the theological system breaks down, more than anywhere else, notwithstanding the rise of Protestantism, etc.

 
Norm 2017-04-20 03:45:03 

In reply to pelon

Most non-believers have evolved out of and not into religion through unfiltered quest.

I see no attempt to engage in meaningful discussion on religious topics by secular individuals. In my opinion, the baseless maligning of religious views is a strong indication of no knowledge of the subject.

Most non-believers evolved? You probably meant that most non-believers "devolved", through selfish indifference to the collective faith of mankind.

The bible is filled with mythology ... The christian bible is religion as seen through the eyes of it's authors


Tell me, which country won World War 2 - Britain, the US or Russia? Is the story of triumph told by each country to its citizens a modern-day mythology? Or is each group telling its own truth? Why would a rational person assume that the Bible, after being translated over and over, would be free from bias? Even today, the many versions is in itself evidence of bias.

Just like we do with Fox, CNN, etc, we have to take the contents of the Bible with a proverbial grain of salt.

Why was the Apocrypha text removed?


Obviously, the books included in the Bible were chosen by men, which again introduces bias. Some chose to exclude the entire Old Testament, mostly to avoid the problems in Genesis, while keeping the even more problematic Revelation! Crazy, in my opinion.

The Apocrypha are generally excluded from the Bible but they are not banned by churches or by law.

Why are many of the miracles attributed to Moses, Jesus and others found in other Ancient text long before they walked on earth?


There are many, many parallels to Bible miracles in Greek mythology, including the power of the cross (crucifix), sacrifice of the son by Zeus, etc. In my opinion, a great deal of the story of Jesus, as told by John, Matthew and Luke (to a lesser extent) was influenced by ideas taken from Greek mythology. I know my religious friends will disagree with this opinion, but that could be discussed in a separate thread.

Christianity is not the birth of religion, it is the birth of a NEW religion. One brought to our forefathers with a sword.


The sword is used today to spread today's dominant philosophies (capitalism, religious extremism, etc). Heck, even the religious types are preaching that God will destroy Satan at some point! So, has mankind collectively, or even in sub-groups, evolved away from "deciding" by the sword as yet?

But, you touch on a most important point, in my opinion. Jesus's main contribution to the world is the concept of "deciding" through forgiveness ("turn the other cheek", "as we forgive those who trespass against us", etc), and not the sword. We have been unable to implement this collectively thus far.

We get carried away with faith, in the hope that the promises will be fulfilled.


True. This is the selfish and unfortunate path chosen by may who claim to be religious. There is a big difference between caring only for one's own soul, and caring for your fellow man.

 
Norm 2017-04-20 03:49:18 

In reply to SnoopDog

men living inside of a whale

This one has been known to occur with others, even in modern times!

 
Runs 2017-04-20 06:13:26 

[b]In reply to Norm[/b
Excellent analogies cuz

 
Emir 2017-04-20 07:45:24 

In reply to Norm

I like you entire post- well said.
Look, I am an advocate for man holding religion for critique. The Quran encourages and challenges critique of its words- never minds the actions of fanatics.

I do not debate religion but I respect the faith of others and even those with no faith in God. There are some folks in here who seem only to criticize only Islam and Christianity under the guise of being an atheist, but interestingly they do not criticize Brahmanism- the violent and racist movement that invaded the ancient and peaceful Hinduism.

 
googley 2017-04-20 11:51:29 

In reply to SnoopDog

just 10 thousand? you need math lessons!! lol

 
black 2017-04-20 12:02:38 

In reply to Ayenmol

Allow? He was a powerful angel. Why does God allow you to do what you do?


Boy, this is real fairytale.

Isn't, God the creator of everything?

 
black 2017-04-20 12:29:04 

In reply to Norm

Tell me, which country won World War 2 - Britain, the US or Russia? Is the story of triumph told by each country to its citizens a modern-day mythology? Or is each group telling its own truth? Why would a rational person assume that the Bible, after being translated over and over, would be free from bias? Even today, the many versions is in itself evidence of bias.

Just like we do with Fox, CNN, etc, we have to take the contents of the Bible with a proverbial grain of salt
.

That's the point, if the words/interpretation of the Bible keep changing, at some point it becomes a lie. How can believers rely on a lie to get to Heaven?

 
doosra 2017-04-20 14:08:40 

In reply to DAVE400

in general people's death, esp that of a close one (fam or fren) can change one's life tho

no?

 
Ewart 2017-04-20 16:50:13 

In reply to doosra



Yes. That, and serious illness.


//

 
Ewart 2017-04-20 16:51:17 

In reply to Norm



Very good, Norm.


//

 
pelon 2017-04-20 21:29:11 

In reply to Norm
1000+
And most ironic that your reply to me was void of dogma, doctrine, copy and paste verses etc. Like your christian brother Ewart, I celebrate your post.

To this I say wow:

In my opinion, a great deal of the story of Jesus, as told by John, Matthew and Luke (to a lesser extent) was influenced by ideas taken from Greek mythology.


You clearly are closer to pragmatism than dogma, with THAT level of thinking. Kudos to you.

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-20 21:49:33 

In reply to pelon

Perhaps Norm can do us all a favour and provide evidence of a world wide flood in antiquity and evidence of a mass human migration from ancient Egypt.

The latter should be easy as the ancient Egyptians were a bureaucratic bunch and kept records of pretty much everything.

Oh, also some evidence of men living inside a whale. lol

 
Ayenmol 2017-04-20 21:52:45 

In reply to pelon

People who are interested in God don't subscribe to opinion. Jesus himself quoted from the Scriptures.

John 14:...

49 because I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak
.

2John...
10 If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him
.

I do not seek kudos for anything I do for Jehovah God. I want you and everyone to search for yourselves. Go read God's word! That is where the truth lies, not in human opinion!

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-20 22:03:50 

In reply to Ayenmol

One would think that all powerful Mr God would have taken great pains to ensure his Devine word would be so easily comprehensible devoid of any ambiguity or contradictions so that any human being from any part of the planet would be persuaded on a first reading.

But no, the so-called word of god is so ambiguous, so contradictory, so obviously man made that all powerful god has left it up to you to try and persuade us.

Fail. lol

 
pelon 2017-04-20 22:07:26 

In reply to Ayenmol

Did you read the Trump University books you ordered 3 years ago? Not because it is written is it 1. fact or 2. original

Do your thang bro.

PS:

I do not seek kudos for anything I do for Jehovah God.
Why should you? we are all of finite scope - seeking "kudos" should be the LAST thing a man of the cloth does.

 
Ayenmol 2017-04-20 22:07:54 

In reply to SnoopDog

You claim enlightenment but are looking to be persuaded? Did your parents have to persuade you to show them honor?

Do your thing dude! It is your right. You do not affect me and my life an iota, much less God.

Go fight your demons.

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-20 22:09:51 

In reply to Ayenmol

Pray for me to go away! lol

Surely all power god can obey one little order of yours. lol

 
Ayenmol 2017-04-20 22:15:13 

In reply to SnoopDog

You are obviously possessed. No one claims disinterest in something then seek it out so fervently.

You post a no trespassing sign to keep people away then sit in your home seeking them out for abuse...sounds kinda demented to me!

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-20 22:19:06 

In reply to Ayenmol

Oh now you're the victim again. I guess I'll just be the heel who persecutes the poor defenceless Christians and throws them to the library to read other books not written by primitive Bronze Age goat herders. lol

 
black 2017-04-20 22:22:28 

In reply to SnoopDog

One would think that all powerful Mr God would have taken great pains to ensure his Devine word would be so easily comprehensible devoid of any ambiguity or contradictions so that any human being from any part of the planet would be persuaded on a first reading.

But no, the so-called word of god is so ambiguous, so contradictory, so obviously man made that all powerful god has left it up to you to try and persuade us.

Fail.


Exactly. We have a fella in the Whitehouse that is very good at interpreting events his way. lol

 
Ayenmol 2017-04-20 22:38:59 

In reply to SnoopDog

You are belligerent, foul mouthed, hateful and illogical. You are wasting my time! The fact that you claim not to care about something yet devote so much time to search out anyone who dares believe and deride them? Kinda sociopathic! Hope you find some peace.

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-20 22:41:25 

In reply to Ayenmol

I hope you find your critical faculties. lol

 
Ayenmol 2017-04-20 22:54:19 

Look ma, I post a no trespassing sign to keep the big bad man who left the comfort of his home to come to my home and my turf away! Then I seek him and anyone who dares comment on a thread even remotely associated with his subject, I seek them out behind a computer and tell them how they trying to force their views on me, while I stalk them and force my views down their throat. I mock them from behind my computer!
I verbally abuse them, from behind my computer. I don't care about them but I spend hours seeking them out behind a computer!

Am brave MA! Ain't I? Ain't I brave MA?

Wow!

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-20 22:54:27 

In reply to black

Trump's interpretation of the Bible: "Make Rome Great Again." lol

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-20 22:55:44 

In reply to Ayenmol

I seem to have touched a nerve with you Bro. lol

Settle down, pee and ketch yuh bed. lol

 
Ayenmol 2017-04-20 22:57:50 

In reply to SnoopDog

Nerve? More like an experience to share with my brothers as we laugh about the weird things we come across!

You are the one blowing up! I want no part of it.

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-20 23:01:27 

In reply to Ayenmol

Okay very good. Now pee and ketch yuh bed. lol

 
bravos 2017-04-20 23:17:21 

In reply to SnoopDog

lol

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-20 23:20:24 

In reply to bravos

This shyte is über fun Bro. lol

 
Ayenmol 2017-04-20 23:30:08 

In reply to Norm

OK back to sanity.

I appreciate the attempt at a conversation. In order to find the truth you gotta go to the source.

If you are charged with ridding the market place of currency forgeries what approach would be most logical?...learning each new method and imperfections of the fake bills? Or simply learning the intricacies of the real thing and comparing each bill to that standard?

That's the reason you go to God's word! If God is all powerful and capable of giving us all the great we use in reasoning and deductibility, don't you think he knows how to communicate with us in a way we can understand? Don't you think he would be able to preserve that communication for all to have an opportunity to learn his ways?

27 for them to seek God, if they might grope for him and really find him, although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us.

And I will rock all the nations, and the desirable things of all the nations must come in; and I will fill this house with glory,’ Jehovah of armies has said.

 
bravos 2017-04-20 23:42:12 

In reply to SnoopDog

And typical of 'Christians' and the religious to cry fowl when confronted with the slightest semblance of fact and rationale,no wonder sensible people continue to ridicule their very offensive unlikely and plagiarized mythology,and they should continue to do so with contempt,how obnoxious of smelly little men believing that the creator of the Universe desires some relationship with him,pleH!!

Aynemol you know no god and he speaks not to you,you are therefore hallucinating and need medical help or a liar,no god talks to you,you just in it for some sorta theoretical celestial favor,typical of selfish man,they have you right where they want you,I really hope you spend your money behind them too,you deserve losing every cent you lost to the church,it's a cash cow you just refuse to let die..

And do you really wanta sit on god's lap eternally praising him looking down? No sir I prefer to really die than to live such a life,North Korea seems easier to fathom,I'm certain I can stir-fry some DPRK punash in no time..and if things don't work out with Kim Fook Hui at least you can die and escape North-Korea,to ass with your ownership of my soul..let me die in peace and stay dead,don;t keep me 'alive' for your morbid desires and fantasies.

Bless.

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-20 23:47:07 

In reply to bravos

Unicorns and gods. They all belong in the "fiction" section of every library. big grin

 
black 2017-04-20 23:56:25 

In reply to bravos

Kim Fook Hui. lol

At least we know there's a hell. lol

 
bravos 2017-04-21 00:17:04 

In reply to black

smile