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What would WI cappo have said?

 
Narper 2017-10-02 11:34:39 

Mushfiqur Rahim, Bangladesh skipper,on Monday(October 2) said he is 'ashamed' and 'disappointed' at the way Bangladesh lost the opening Test to South Africa in Potchefstroom, and blamed the batsmen and the bowlers for a poor all-round show. The visitors folded for 90 runs on the final day to hand South Africa a 333-run win.


Link

 
Narper 2017-10-02 11:35:10 

"I am ashamed," Mushfiqur told reporters at Senwes Park. "After a long time I saw a session where we lost even before being lost. I really don't know why it happened. It is disappointing because I really forgot when we batted in this manner. You can lose a match in many ways but we have the ability to bat for two sessions," Mushfiqur said.

 
Narper 2017-10-02 11:36:00 

"You can say we could have batted but there is no guarantee that we would put a 500 plus score on the board. All of us took this decision (to bowl first). We didn't know much about South African wickets, so it was hard for us to predict. We practiced on totally different wickets. On any flat wicket, the help for the bowlers stay for the first two hours. If you think about what will happen in the fourth innings and then get bowled out for 100 in the first innings, it becomes difficult."

 
Narper 2017-10-02 11:36:23 

"Our bowlers let us down in the first innings," he said. "It must have been a flat track but you could have bowled in different areas. No matter how flat the wicket remains, if you want to take any advantage, it has to to be in the first two hours of the opening day.

 
Narper 2017-10-02 11:36:42 

"At least you can bowl four to five deliveries in the right place and that is why you are selected. Otherwise even I can bowl two to six deliveries. I am not saying you swing both ways but at least bowl five balls in an over in the right areas. It could have prevented the free flow of runs and it is always different going to bat looking at 500 runs on the board and looking at 300 to 400 runs on the board," said Mushfiqur, critical of his team's bowling performance.

 
Narper 2017-10-02 11:38:17 

"I agree that it is difficult to play this kind of bowlers on the fifth day, but still I feel the wicket was good for batting. Our batsman could not show their potential and as a captain it is frustrating because at least we could have put up a fight."

 
Narper 2017-10-02 11:38:43 

"I apologise to the nation as we could have dealt with it in a better way skill-wise as well as mentally. We have to play extremely well in the next match. We cannot return taking this kind of shame with us. We must try not to lose the respect that we have earned during the last two years,' Mushfiqur concluded.

 
Halliwell 2017-10-02 12:12:50 

In reply to Narper

Bangalis are so negative

Holder would have 'taken the positives' cool

 
Narper 2017-10-02 12:16:26 

In reply to Halliwell

Maybe the Bangla cappo sees NO POSITIVES

 
VIX 2017-10-02 12:40:57 

he woulda blamed Bishoo big grin

 
openning 2017-10-02 12:49:05 

and blamed the batsmen and the bowlers for a poor all-round show.


Otis got cussed for blaming players, oh how times have changed
lol lol

 
DIEHARD 2017-10-02 13:01:41 

In reply to openning

What is that disease..where one is unable to understand the concept of context??

And not able to make distinctions like..dont blame the reasons for your losses on the people who actually perform on a team of non - performers..
Think some on here suffering from it

 
imusic 2017-10-02 13:08:35 

Allyuh give Holder a break.

If he say what Mushfiqur said....he woulda get criticize for being negative, bringin down team morale etetc

 
nick2020 2017-10-02 14:23:30 

In reply to Narper

Throwing your players under the bus is horrible captaincy. Don't care who does it.

 
nick2020 2017-10-02 14:25:18 

In reply to DIEHARD

Remind me again what Ottis has done since?

 
DIEHARD 2017-10-02 14:50:11 

In reply to nick2020

Back to doing that which he was more suited for..being a bowling coach..he has since been appointed head coach for South Africa, we are yet to see how that turns out.

Man management is very specific to the men you are managing, one has to be aware of the people, and what will motivate or demotivate them, its not a one size fits all..

 
nick2020 2017-10-02 16:45:10 

In reply to DIEHARD

being a bowling coach

he has since been appointed head coach for South Africa


So he is not just back to being a bowling coach then?
And it will turn out however you want it to. Trumped up failure or marginalized success.

 
DIEHARD 2017-10-02 17:00:27 

In reply to nick2020

He is yet to produce any results as a head coach..wth..

Being appointed to a job doesn't prove much.

And how does it take away from his missteps as WI head coach?

Cos it seems thats where u going with this..like being appointed SA head coach is some kind of vindication for the damage done to WI cricket.

It is possible they jus brought him in and used him as a hatchet man then quickly discarded him, I believe personally thats what happened.

Would have more respect for him if he kept his pride, dignity, and character like Phil did, rather than let himself be used by the WICBandits

 
Walco 2017-10-02 17:04:50 

In reply to DIEHARD

Back to doing that which he was more suited for..being a bowling coach..he has since been appointed head coach for South Africa, we are yet to see how that turns out.
Man management is very specific to the men you are managing, one has to be aware of the people, and what will motivate or demotivate them, its not a one size fits all..

Bredrin, you obviously have no idea what was going on with the WI team in the time leading up to Ottis' truthful statements about the performance, or lack thereof, of the senior players during that WC. Ask yourself this question. Why is it that Ottis had no man management issues with any WI bowler not named Benn? Did he have man management issues with the England bowlers, or did they universally shower him with praise?

Leave this one alone man. Or you will die hard smile

 
imusic 2017-10-02 17:10:48 

In reply to Walco

Ottis' truthful statements about the performance, or lack thereof, of the senior players during that WC.

Truthful or not....he threw "his players" under the proverbial bus. There is no doubt about that.

There's also no doubt that the players thrown under the bus from then on had little respect for him.

He caused that. Nobody else.

 
openning 2017-10-02 18:05:38 

There is a difference in the way we say things.
Words do matter
We did not bowled or batted well, is softer than the bowler/batsman did not perform.
Otis mistake was blaming the seniors in public
You win as a team and lose as a team

 
natty_forever 2017-10-03 10:21:57 

In reply to Walco

Why is it that Ottis had no man management issues with any WI bowler not named Benn? Did he have man management issues with the England bowlers, or did they universally shower him with praise?
... as the man said, back to doing what he does best. Now that he is head coach again, let's see how that works out. Two stints as bowling coach a success, one stint of head coaching a failure. I have no issue with Otis' statements, I looking at his performance.

 
Walco 2017-10-04 07:27:16 

In reply to imusic

The undermining and lack of respect from the senior players started long before those public statements by Gibson. I am sure you remember the public statements from certain players complaining about lifting weights and conditioning. Players were also openly disrespecting the captain during that WC, and one player cursed Gibson and called him a mother-this and mother-that.

There was a player revolt during that World Cup led by the senior players. And it was because Gibson was trying to instill discipline, player accountability, physical fitness, and proper mental preparation in the team. Only in the West Indies would fans side with the players under such circumstances.

 
natty_forever 2017-10-04 07:28:55 

... scape-goating!

 
Walco 2017-10-04 07:32:58 

In reply to natty_forever

The best head coach in the history of mankind could not have won with that team. And we know after Gibson’s stint that the best bowling coach in the history of mankind could not win with them smile

Let’s see how it goes with South Africa. He has a lot more material to work with in South Africa, so I’m expecting you to be calling him a successful head coach within the next two years smile

 
natty_forever 2017-10-04 07:34:34 

In reply to Walco.... yeah, but still failed with West Indies, need ready goods to succeed.

big grin

 
DIEHARD 2017-10-04 10:40:59 

In reply to Walco

Bredrin, you obviously have no idea what was going on with the WI team in the time leading up to Ottis' truthful statements about the performance, or lack thereof, of the senior players during that WC. Ask yourself this question. Why is it that Ottis had no man management issues with any WI bowler not named Benn? Did he have man management issues with the England bowlers, or did they universally shower him with praise?


The players' behaviour is irrlevant..you think great coaches..have model players with working all the time, their job is to harness the players talent in order to achieve results.

He instead got rid of the talent, when there was no feasible alternative, and failed miserably.

Try and comprehend what the coach's job is

There was a player revolt during that World Cup led by the senior players. And it was because Gibson was trying to instill discipline, player accountability, physical fitness, and proper mental preparation in the team. Only in the West Indies would fans side with the players under such circumstances.


Well then the coach has faield if he is not able to succesfully implement his plan, then the job was too difficult for him and we cannot say how good of a head coach he is, until we see him with another team.

 
Walco 2017-10-04 10:49:34 

In reply to natty_forever and Diehard

A busy day for me, so I will be back for you two later smile

 
DIEHARD 2017-10-04 11:47:18 

In reply to Walco

Eagerly awaiting your return sir.. cool lol

twisted

 
tc1 2017-10-04 11:49:25 

In reply to natty_forever

Named a coach who succeeded with the WI team.

 
DIEHARD 2017-10-04 12:00:06 

In reply to tc1

There are stages of success..

Step one should be, which coach got the players to buy into his philosophy, and who gained their trust and respect.

Otis didnt even do that, so you cant even consider him a partial success.

Phil did that at least, and got some wins.

You have to at least get the players on your side first, then you can look at if your methodologies actually achieve success on the field.

Walk before you run..

 
Walco 2017-10-04 18:07:22 

In reply to DIEHARD

There are stages of success..

Step one should be, which coach got the players to buy into his philosophy, and who gained their trust and respect.

Otis didnt even do that, so you cant even consider him a partial success.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Gibson win a T20 World Cup? Also, the team's fielding and bowling improved under Gibson.

Phil did that at least, and got some wins.

Phil Simmons, who was taught by Gibson in England when he was studying for his coaching certification, will tell anyone who listens that he built on the foundation put in place by Gibson. Ask Phil the next time you see him.

You have to at least get the players on your side first, then you can look at if your methodologies actually achieve success on the field.

All of the players were on Gibson's side until he started demanding proper physical and mental preparation, and began holding players accountable for their own performances. Then certain players started complaining that lifting weights and too much aerobic conditioning, etc.

Prior to his stint as WI head coach, Jimmy Adams warned Gibson not to take the job because he (as a black man) would not get the requisite respect from the players and administration. Not long after taking the WI head coaching job, Gibson was told by a star player that he could not tell that player what to do because Gibson was just a black boy.

Look man, Gibson told the WI players the same things Phil told them and the same things Law is telling them now. The only difference is that because of Law's complexion the players and administrators are more likely to listen.

 
Walco 2017-10-04 18:09:56 

In reply to natty_forever

yeah, but still failed with West Indies, need ready goods to succeed.

I see. So winning a T20 WC means nothing ...

And what ready goods are you talking about? The same ready goods that have been choking all over the place for time immemorial? Come again dreadlock rasta. You can do better smile

 
nick2020 2017-10-04 22:02:36 

In reply to imusic

imusic
10/2/17 5:10:48 PM
 

In reply to Walco

Ottis' truthful statements about the performance, or lack thereof, of the senior players during that WC.

Truthful or not....he threw "his players" under the proverbial bus. There is no doubt about that.

There's also no doubt that the players thrown under the bus from then on had little respect for him.

He caused that. Nobody else.


I agree with 100% of your post.

Next step is a critical look of the players in question.

 
nick2020 2017-10-04 22:03:13 

In reply to natty_forever

natty_forever
10/4/17 7:34:34 AM
 
In reply to Walco.... yeah, but still failed with West Indies, need ready goods to succeed.


Who could succeed with the West Indies?