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Lloyd's role as Convenor of Selectors...

 
Larr Pullo 2014-09-18 13:26:31 

Seems to have grown exponentially.... smile smile

Not a bad thing at all...

 
jaip 2014-09-18 13:29:00 

In reply to Larr Pullo

ditto

 
Drapsey 2014-09-18 13:33:58 

In reply to Larr Pullo

All from debuting Johnson?

 
Larr Pullo 2014-09-18 13:37:18 

In reply to Drapsey

You got on your Batquake hat again? smile smile smile

 
imusic 2014-09-18 13:38:26 

In reply to Larr Pullo

Seems to have grown exponentially

Please expand

 
JOJO 2014-09-18 13:43:14 

In reply to Larr Pullo

Not a bad thing at all...


Have to distinguish between the "idea" and "Lloyd".

It would not have mattered but for Lloyd's less than sterling management record.

 
Larr Pullo 2014-09-18 13:43:21 

In reply to imusic

exponentially


I already did....

 
imusic 2014-09-18 13:44:49 

In reply to Larr Pullo

I already did....

Please provide details.

 
Larr Pullo 2014-09-18 13:45:02 

In reply to JOJO

No credit for overseeing the building of the most successful sports team in the history of sports? You know what kind of managment acumen that took? And ll this without a Wharton degree? smile

 
JOJO 2014-09-18 13:49:43 

In reply to Larr Pullo

No credit for overseeing the building of the most successful sports team in the history of sports? You know what kind of managment acumen that took? And ll this without a Wharton degree?


Ahhh....here's what I was about to write in my previous post but decided not to:

It is instructive that Lloyd has done so much in the 30 years since he last captained the Windies. Yet, anytime we want to look at his achievements and record--as an indicator of management skills--we look past that 30 year period and go back to his stint as captain.


BTW, I've always thought that Lloyd was given way more credit for the success of that Windies team than he deserved. Different discussion for different day.

 
Larr Pullo 2014-09-18 13:52:28 

In reply to JOJO

BTW, I've always thought that Lloyd was given way more credit for the success of that Windies team than he deserve.


Im interested to hear your views on this....

 
tc1 2014-09-18 13:53:58 

In reply to JOJO

great, Lloyd the captain Vs Lloyd the manager

 
Commie 2014-09-18 13:54:13 

In reply to JOJO

Interesting the rope Lloyd is given, especially when he has presided over chaos as WI manager and head of the cricket committee in the past.

But...everyone deserves a fresh start.

 
Larr Pullo 2014-09-18 13:57:24 

In reply to Commie

Who was captain when he was manager, and what were the parameters of his role?

 
JOJO 2014-09-18 14:01:32 

In reply to Commie


Interesting the rope Lloyd is given, especially when he has presided over chaos as WI manager and head of the cricket committee in the past.


Wasn't he also involved in the IMC. But not only that, he was also WICB director and had stints with the ICC. He was in fact, party to many of the decisions that the WICB was criticized for. Looks like he got coated in Teflon when he gave up the captaincy.

 
Commie 2014-09-18 14:10:30 

In reply to Larr Pullo

Lloyd was manager when Lara was cappo and when Walsh was cappo.

He was also head of the cricket committee of the WICB.

Dont know the parameters. I know the results though.

 
TheTrail 2014-09-18 14:22:14 

Let's see how he handles Gayle, Narine, Pollard and Bravo sr for the Indian tour before we pass judgment eh.

BTW, the second person they were talking about, with Narine, was Pollard - he was the guy who should have debut against Bangladesh and chose to march to his own drummer, the IPL.

 
Larr Pullo 2014-09-18 14:22:38 

In reply to Commie

What happened when Skerrit was manager and Lara captain?

 
Commie 2014-09-18 14:24:27 

In reply to Larr Pullo

Why you bringing Skerrit in this ?

 
Larr Pullo 2014-09-18 14:30:52 

In reply to Commie

Establishing a pattern....

 
Admin 2014-09-18 14:31:27 

In reply to Commie

I sat down with Clive Lloyd in 2004:

You have constantly called for more involvement in the selection process. You want to be more involved in the day-to-day structure. How is that working out?

My contract more or less says I'm to work on the development of cricket in the region. But half of the things I'm supposed to do haven't been done. I'm told I can't be a selector because I don't live in the West Indies. Well, I'm been living overseas for 30 years and was captain of the West Indies during those years. We have a physio who lives in Australia. But, they say I can't be a selector. To me, all those things are a slap in my face - I can't stand the system under which I have to work. I am very frustrated with the way things are set up, and a lot of people are blaming me for things for which I have no jurisdiction over.

I don't have a say in picking any of the teams. They had the one-day tournament (Red Stripe Bowl) in the Caribbean recently and I wasn't even invited. Now, if we have to play a one-day tournament, they will have to give me a side that I know nothing about. Now, I'm the manager of the team and I'm not part of the discussions to select the side. Now, I'm on tour with a bunch of fellows who I'm seeing for the first time. They will tell me that so-and-so batted well but, as the manager, you want to see how they handled pressure situations to make decisions on tour. So, it is very frustrating.

I was offered the contract for the New Zealand tour and after much thought, I decided to have another go at it. It is only until January 2000, so I'll see how it goes. But, I was on the verge of saying I've had enough.

On the same note, the Board's Cricket Committee is facing the same frustrations, complaining about being ignored on cricket issues. It seems to be a circle of the same frustrations...

If you have a cricket committee, you have to allow the committee to do its work. Anything about cricket has to go through that committee. I worked on numerous such committees in England and the system worked because the cricket committee made the cricket decisions. If they make the decisions, those decisions should stand. I don't know what the problem is - there might be people there (in the Board) who want to wield the power. It might simply be a power thing, who knows?

Even the Malcolm Marshall situation. He was the coach and a selector. Then, all of a sudden, he wasn't the selector anymore. Nobody told him why even though his contractual arrangements said that he should be a selector. But that is how they do things. It is frustrating and heartbreaking for me because no one wants to win more than I do. But, when I have little control over things and then have to take the blame, that is a bitter pill to swallow. I don't know if people think that I love the fact that the team is being beaten.


_ryan

 
JOJO 2014-09-18 14:49:59 

In reply to Admin

Thanks for posting this bit. Now consider Lloyd's comments against my response to you about Beckles on another thread.

BTW, does the above situation explain the fact that Lloyd has not left any footprints in 30 years?

 
Admin 2014-09-18 14:52:44 

In reply to JOJO

Lloyd needs the work. Beckles doesn't. It's really sad, if you think deeper about it.

_r

 
JOJO 2014-09-18 14:53:49 

In reply to Admin

Lloyd needs the work. Beckles doesn't.



...and that....right there, is the problem.

 
Admin 2014-09-18 14:55:15 

In reply to JOJO

You should come to New York for the curry goat this weekend. We are overdue for some good conversation.

_r

 
Larr Pullo 2014-09-18 14:55:45 

In reply to JOJO

I'll tell you one thing....there were many in the WICB who were scared of giving Lloyd any power, or having him even be perceived as doing any good. You know how it go in the Caribbean. Lloyd succeeded IN SPITE OF....

 
Commie 2014-09-18 14:57:33 

In reply to Admin

Btw...the WICB has believe it or not improved from where it was. In fact Cricket in general has.

credits to Peter Deeley

BEFORE West Indies embarked on their current tour of Pakistan, the players assembled in Trinidad for a five-day seminar aimed at preparing them mentally for the challenges ahead.

It was described as a ``human resources'' course - how to get the best out of individuals on and off the field. Academics from the University of the West Indies lectured on such diverse subjects as personal development, media relations and how to handle stress.

Unfortunately six of the 15-man party could not be there. Brian Lara had a prior golf engagement and such senior figures as Curtly Ambrose, Carl Hooper and Phil Simmons were also absent, along with the captain, Courtney Walsh.

It was, perhaps, an indication that in the present West Indies set-up, while everybody gives lip service to rowing in one direction, some oarsmen are not always pulling the same way.

One of the younger players on this tour - understandably wanting anonymity for his views - observed during the side's unimpressive hat-trick of defeats by Pakistan, Sri Lanka and South Africa in the day-night international series: ``Those of us who went to Trinidad got a lot out of it. But having key players missing took away a lot of the value. Now they're coming along and asking, 'What did they say about this and that?' ``

Clive Lloyd, West Indies tour manager, believes the seminar was still of value. Asked about the absentees he said: ``They had other commitments. Some were in London at the time.'' It will be Lloyd's job, along with coach Malcolm Marshall, to see that the players do pull together for the coming three-Test series. The first game starts in Peshawar on Monday.

Comparisons, however, with the successful South Africans, who have just beaten Pakistan 1-0 in the Tests and won the one-day series, suggest that West Indies have hardly come over-prepared for what is always a difficult tour.

South Africa brought six back-room men: two managers, a coach, a physiotherapist, a trainer and a doctor. Apart from Lloyd and Marshall, West Indies have only their long-serving trainer, Denis Waight.

Lloyd acknowledges that a team physician is almost a prerequisite here. ``If one becomes necessary we shall have to call in a local,'' he says. ``I hope the day isn't far away when the ICC provide a doctor whenever teams are touring.''

Behind that remark lies the fact that in the Caribbean money for cricket is hard to come by at the moment. It may partly be due to the decline in West Indies fortunes, though Lloyd points out that Australia's win two years ago remains their only Test series defeat in 17 years.

A lessening of interest among the nation states is also indicated by the fact that this series will not be shown on television back home. There are no Caribbean writers present to cover the Tests, and there are doubts about whether there will be any radio commentary, which has always been a feature of past West Indies overseas tours.

Then the players' contracts, which ran out at the end of August, are still waiting to be renewed. That, apparently, was the reason why no action was taken by the board against those failing to turn up in Trinidad (though they might still have balked at disciplining the likes of Lara and Ambrose).

All in all, the omens are not propitious for Walsh, 35, who is nearing the end of his career. It is West Indies' first tour here for seven years, and while they have not lost a series in their last four visits, they will not be favourites to win this one.

Lloyd would like to have brought more players, including some one-day specialists who could then have gone home, but his board said no. Again it was the cash element. Lloyd sees the way other countries are going with regard to dividing one-day and Test parties and says West Indies must follow suit.

In an age when preparation is as much a key to success as ability, West Indies appear to have much catching up to do to match the thoroughness of their peers. Still immensely rich in individual talent, in other respects they seem almost the poor relations of international cricket.

 
Admin 2014-09-18 14:58:22 

In reply to Larr Pullo

You should hear the behind-the-scenes bad-mouthing that Pybus getting right now. He is the only man who is marginally successful in making the cricket professional and they all calling me to complain about this and that. I'm having fun hanging up on them.

_r

 
JOJO 2014-09-18 15:01:21 

In reply to Admin

You should come to New York for the curry goat this weekend. We are overdue for some good conversation.


Traveling over the weekend. Trying to finish a paper for next week but I hit a brick wall (that's why I here talking crap) big grin
I will have to pull an all-nighter now.

 
Admin 2014-09-18 15:02:14 

In reply to JOJO

Y'all academics. Always working on a paper.

_r

 
WestDem 2014-09-18 15:05:11 

In reply to Admin

You should hear the behind-the-scenes bad-mouthing that Pybus getting right now. He is the only man who is marginally successful in making the cricket professional and they all calling me to complain about this and that. I'm having fun hanging up on them.


A likkle heads up....Lloyd may grace de Curry Goat game on Saturday....juss walk with you journalistic hat!

 
Larr Pullo 2014-09-18 15:06:29 

In reply to WestDem

Kudos to Lloyd...would show up at any cricket to encourage the game. Top fella that...DCC of course... smile smile

 
FuzzyWuzzy 2014-09-18 15:08:56 

In reply to Larr Pullo

U is he publicist? big grin big grin big grin

 
WestDem 2014-09-18 15:09:04 

In reply to Larr Pullo

I hope he mek it there...just one likkle hiccup but I should be able to bully my way pass that!!!

Its DCC and WestDem yuh rass!!! lol lol

 
Larr Pullo 2014-09-18 15:10:01 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Yes!!! lol lol lol