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Will WI cricket ever return to the top?

 
spider 2014-09-27 12:01:55 

Can we get back to the top? Or are we where we should reasonably expect to be given population size, resources, etc?

Come to think of it, it is remarkable that a region of just over seven million people could, for almost two decades, dominate a sport conTested by countries with markedly larger populations. To understand this, one has to appreciate how much a part of the fabric of the society cricket was.

It was played in every makeshift space in every community, often with an intensity reserved only for serious and meaningful endeavors. Lara wrote of regularly playing a version of cricket called "pass out," where if you missed the ball while batting you were out. He used to bat for so long that a gentleman who lived nearby would often offer the other boys money for getting him out. Sometimes he didn't get out for quite a few days.

Lawrence Rowe was walking close to the playground while at school one day when he saw a ball flying in his direction and caught it. Since it was a variation of cricket we called ketchy shubby in Jamaica, it meant that the batsman was out, and having caught the ball it was now Rowe's turn to bat. But he was smaller and younger than the boys playing, and thinking he might be too intimidated to face bigger boys, a few of them beseeched him to allow one of them to bat in his stead. He resisted their supplications, went to the wicket, and proceeded to bat for the whole afternoon. Impressed, they escorted him to the school's sports master to relate what they had just witnessed, and to get the future batting stylist into the school team.

In the 1920s ketchy shubby was apparently called by another name: catch ball bowl. Every afternoon, after school, a teenaged George Headley would play with his friends until darkness came. Headley earned his turn at bat one Monday and never got out that evening. He didn't get out on Tuesday either, nor Wednesday, nor Thursday. When he turned up to continue batting on Friday nobody else came.

This is indicative of how it was all over the Caribbean, and this configuration, informal though it was, provided plenty opportunity for the exceptional ones to be noticed and nurtured.

West Indies Cricket: Will It Find Its Way Back?

 
Ridge 2014-09-27 12:04:50 

Soon we will be on top of the world in( 2019)

 
spider 2014-09-27 12:37:54 

In reply to Ridge

Who or what will bring us there?

 
black 2014-09-27 12:39:00 

In reply to spider

Can we get back to the top? Or are we where we should reasonably expect to be given population size, resources, etc?


Dunno if we can get back to the top, but the resources and population is relatively the same as in the glory days

 
Runs 2014-09-27 12:41:19 

In reply to spider

HHGS promised to

 
spider 2014-09-27 12:50:47 

In reply to black

It could be that the rest of the world has moved and we haven't. I mentioned population because all other things being equal it is likely the biggest population would unearth the largest number of talented individuals. And as for resources - the more the better chance of reaching and developing talent, broadly speaking.

 
black 2014-09-27 13:12:44 

In reply to spider

I mentioned population because all other things being equal it is likely the biggest population would unearth the largest number of talented individuals.


India is not exactly dominating the Cricketing World

 
spider 2014-09-27 13:17:03 

In reply to black

No. But they're not doing badly either. They were number 1 test team a few years ago, won World cup, reached T20 world cup finals, won champions league or whatever its name is in England, and in home conditions almost unbeatable. Think we'd prefer that than our record.

 
Narper 2014-09-27 13:48:56 


There is really nothing magical about reaching the milestone of 500 Tests, but perhaps -- and hopefully -- it could serve as a marker for when the decline of West Indies cricket was arrested. Perhaps champions like Clive Lloyd, Courtney Walsh, Curtly Ambrose and Richie Richardson, now that they are intimately involved, will trigger the rebuilding process.


Sir Viv is with the A team too

If these guys can't do it,,,nobody can

 
spider 2014-09-27 15:53:38 

In reply to Narper

Sir Viv is with the A team too


I was surprised to see that today. Seems they are making a concerted effort to get involved. Hope it turns out well.

 
POINT 2014-09-27 16:26:22 

Look at the number of first class matches Players on Teams ranked above our Team , and then compare their stats
to the number of first class matches our Players have played .

Compare also the standard of Cricket in Countries ranked above our Region , and compare their standards to the Standards in the Region .

If you are honest in your assessment , then you will understand , why we are at or near the bottom of International Cricket .

 
tc1 2014-09-27 17:07:15 

In reply to POINT
how many fc matches are played in Aussieland

 
BeatDball 2014-09-27 17:39:38 

I simply want WI bwoys to be competitive; dont lax on the field when things are going well; maintain a professional decorum. Btw, why is there two kinds of batting helmet? One is plastic N this other is, u know....just asking.

 
spider 2014-09-27 18:33:50 

In reply to BeatDball

They need batting and bowling skills as well.

 
Commie 2014-09-27 19:57:08 

In reply to spider

Why should they get to the top?

 
spider 2014-09-27 20:02:08 

In reply to Commie

As I said, maybe we have to get used to them being around where they are now. I was trying to find reasons for the fall. I think that maybe the fact that the numbers of boys playing have dwindled, reducing the pool from which talent will emerge could have something to do with it.

But every team playing everywhere wants to win so that's why they would try to get there.

 
POINT 2014-09-28 14:31:15 

In reply to BeatDball

So then what exactly in your opinion needs to be done for our Players to be fully competitive ????

 
POINT 2014-09-28 14:47:09 

In reply to spider

I recall in the not to distant past
some people in this Forum stating that there wasn't any talent in the Region .

That asinine idea was swiftly debunked
by the Stanford's Cricket Board ; particularly in the famous or infamous
, depending on your perspective ,Twenty million dollars Twenty / 20 Match .

Please note that it was the WICB in its infinite wisdom that farmed out the shortest version of the game to
Stanford .

Obviously then any glory our Players achieve in the shortest version of the game is as a result of the Stewardship of Stanford's Cricket Board NOT THE WICB .

 
BeatDball 2014-09-28 15:08:20 

In reply to POINT Yes, more cricket, but a structured format (which i think we have) N more importantly these blokes have to be counselled as to winning regional championships; the importance of being consistent for the ultimate call up to rep. the region. There are some things that can be done concretely like, after each game, coach has to counsel each member as per performance - cappo is last! They have to be told what they did right N be given positive accolades N of course $$$ is big incentive, which i think MOM gets; have Best Bowler/Batsman per game/innings/series; Best All-Round Performance for a player; Coach should tell they did wrong N suggestions of correcting it - ask what player first, what he thinks he can do to do better, then suggest things. I like more concrete suggestions, not simply play more cricket! The media/sports writers have to play a big part in reinforcing WI players' prowess.

 
spider 2014-09-28 15:39:45 

In reply to POINT

I don't think we have as much talent as we like to think. There was one time in jamaica when Holding was close to the end when people were wondering if he'd stand down for Jamaica to play Walsh, patterson and aaron Daley. Daley was bowling so well that many didn't want to see him dropped. Leewards had two Benjamins, Ferris, Ambrose, and Hamish Anthony I think. The same formal systems that were around then are still there today as far as I know. and BTW I don't credit Stanford for anything we achieved in T20.

 
BeatDball 2014-09-28 15:51:36 

In reply to spider My good man, stanford revitalized WI cricket. It's the least he did. Run guh look up that vocabulary!

 
spider 2014-09-28 15:57:33 

In reply to BeatDball

He did? Point me to the improvements that occurred that you credit Standford for.

 
BeatDball 2014-09-28 16:02:10 

In reply to spider Did u look up the word?

 
POINT 2014-09-28 16:10:15 

In reply to BeatDball

Please explain to me what exactly you mean by " A structured Format " ??
I recall that on more than one occasion the Windward Islands Cricket Board had the Players from the 4 Windward Islands playing 4 innings in 2 days ; prior to the Windward Islands Team participating in the Regional Tournament . I cannot conceive of that as being structured
.

You have recently joined this Forum ,so you are unaware of what I have written in the years that I have posted in this Forum .

The gist of my beef with the WICB is that for decades it has bluntly refused to display Foresight & Vision
regarding Cricket in the Region .

Let me explain , in the mid 1980's out of the blue England decided that it was imposing a ban on ALL Overseas Players . Interestingly , at that juncture , OUR TEAM was the best in the World .

The question , is that how did our Players & Team become the best in the World ?? The answer is that most of our Players were playing Cricket in England & elsewhere in the World .

Obviously this meant learning what is
entailed in being a Professional Cricket ; Discipline , Stamina & honing One's skills in all facets of the game .

It must be noted also that because there was only one format of the game , it meant that when our Players toured England , they played a lot of
Tour & County matches before & in between the Test matches . This meant
that in the Test matches , ALL our Players skills were finely honed .

The lynchpin of the sad saga of the demised of West Indies Cricket , is that the imposition of the ban by England instantaneously turned our Players from being full time Players
into Part time Cricketers .

In essence prior to the ban our Players were playing Cricket most of the year , so their skills were always sharp . The imposition of the ban meant that when not playing in the Regional Tournament or representing the Region internationally , our players were essentially idle their skills got dulled by inactivity .

My take is that it was & is the responsibility of those in the governance of cricket in the Region ;
at the imposition of the ban to ensure
that the skills of our Players remained intact . They did absolutely nothing . Remember , our Players & Team were the best in the World. My take is that this should have been used to attempt forming , with the assistance of Sponsors , a Regional Pro or Semi Pro League .

THEY DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING , my belief is that they could have parlayed the fact that our Players & Team were the best in the World into attracting potential Sponsors . But as I have consistently stated in this Forum , they have no Foresight or Vision .

 
spider 2014-09-28 16:13:26 

In reply to BeatDball

Fuck off.

 
POINT 2014-09-28 16:20:30 

In reply to spider

FYI , the Regional Tournment in the shortest format of the game , from its inception was run by Stanford's Cricket Board .

I have always stated Stanford's Cricket Board . WE are all fully aware of the fact that Stanford is an American , whose knowledge about Cricket is shallow .

It was his Board that ran the Regional
Cricket Tournament in the shortest version of the game . Stanford supplied the money which we found out was not his own money .

I find it interesting that many people chose to focus on Stanford being a Crook , while completely ignoring the achievement of his Cricket Board .

As far as I am aware none of the members of his Cricket Board are in jail or are awaiting criminal charges . My take is that in their brief foray into Regional Cricket , they have done a hell of a lot more for Cricket in the Region than all the years the WICB has been in the governance of Cricket in the Region .

 
spider 2014-09-28 16:24:58 

In reply to POINT

Please explain to me what Stanford and his board did that was so good for our cricket. I am glad players and some ex-players got some money from him but thats about it as far as I know. You seem to credit Stanford for us winning the T20 World Cup. I don't.

 
black 2014-09-28 16:30:16 

In reply to spider

Fuck off.


Dem piss you off Spidey?? lol lol lol

 
BeatDball 2014-09-28 16:34:07 

In reply to POINT Dont WI have a t20 championship, ODI championship N a 4 Day (Test) championship? That is what comes to mind of 'structure'. We could probably tweak them of sorts. We have an A Team that competes, dont WI?

 
BeatDball 2014-09-28 16:37:23 

I forgot my facting/faulking tea N it has become less warm N I HATE TO REHEAT MY TEA! U bunch of *^@#!_+*!!!!

 
spider 2014-09-28 16:41:09 

In reply to BeatDball

You need to make sure people can understand what you saying. I don't even know if you serious.

 
POINT 2014-09-28 16:42:15 

In reply to spider

Let me once again state for your benefit , it was Stanford Cricket Board that was responsible for running the Regional Twenty /20 Tournament .

It was only after Stanford was jailed that the WICB started running the Tournament .

Perhaps you are ignorant of the fat that it was Stanford's Board that was at the helm when their Team defeated England in the 20 million dollars twenty /20 match .

BTW , that team also won al the matches it played leading up to the match vs England .


CREDIT MUST BE GIVEN TO THOSE WHO

RIGHTFULLY DESERVE CREDIT


I am fully aware of the fact that many in the Region bluntly refuse to give credit to Stanford's Cricket Board . If you are among them , then you like them , are very dishonest .

The fact is that Stanford's Board recognized what needed to be done to make their Team fully competitive , and they did that by having a 6 weeks Camp with Coaches in attendance .


" PROPER PREPARATION PREVENTS

PISS POOR PERFORMANCES "

Sadly this fact continues to elude those in the governance of Cricket in the Region ; and their Supporters .

 
BeatDball 2014-09-28 16:46:09 

In reply to spider U playing pitteepattah games sah?? Here is something simple: How are cricketers from the region get selected to play for the West Indies? If u can answer that, then i need not elucidate.

 
spider 2014-09-28 16:51:45 

In reply to POINT

Ok. So it's the six weeks preparation camp that made us beat England and win the world cup. I don't agree and can't understand why you would attribute a difference of opinion to dishonesty.

How long before the Stanford effect wear off?

 
POINT 2014-09-28 16:58:50 

In reply to spider

YOU are getting carried away it aint the West Indies Team that beat England , it was Stanford's Cricket Board Team .

With all due respect you have informed me that honesty aint one of your virtues , it is not my intention to change your mind .

However the FACTS regarding Stanford's Cricket Board's impact on Regional Cricket ; particularly in the shortest version of the game ; despite people like you , can never ever be honestly disputed .

 
spider 2014-09-28 17:12:57 

In reply to POINT

However the FACTS regarding Stanford's Cricket Board's impact on Regional Cricket ; particularly in the shortest version of the game ; despite people like you , can never ever be honestly disputed .


Again, how long before the Stanford effect wear off?

I won't bother to argue with you about the honesty thing. You have no qualms about the fact that Standford used stolen money in our cricket so you might be confused as far as that is concerned.

 
BeatDball 2014-09-28 17:19:40 

I like the idea of a preparation camp right before, especially, an international tour.

 
POINT 2014-09-28 17:36:15 

In reply to spider

It aint my intention to go around & around with you . I knew sooner or later you were going to bring up Stanford's criminal activity .

Evidently you believe that this besmirches the contribution that his Cricket Board made to Cricket in the Region .

This is precisely why I have always mentioned that :


NONE OF THE MEMBERS OF THAT BOARD IN

JAIL ; OR ARE ANY CRIMINAL CHARGES

PENDING AGAINST THEM .

In my opinion if any of them were involved in such activity , then obviously their accomplishments would be tarnished . But that is not the case .

Your persistent refusal to acknowledge what they have done for Cricket in the Region sadly informs me that you are perhaps one of the WICB'S Stooges , you can however seek
comfort of the fact that you have company in this regard; here & in the
the Region .

 
spider 2014-09-28 18:08:41 

In reply to POINT

I could have written your last paragraph for you since whoever disagrees with you is a wick stooge. Was wondering when you'd get to that.

 
POINT 2014-09-29 07:23:30 

In reply to spider

You have not denied that you are one of its Stooges , so perhaps you are proud
of being one . Congratulations .

The essential point I have made you
refused to answer , so let me ask it again :

SHOULD THE CONTRIBUTIONS MADE BY THE

MEMBERS OF STANFORD'S CRICKET BOARD ,

BE DISPARAGED ,AND CAST ASIDE BECAUSE

OF STANFORD'S CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES ???

All that is required of you is to state either YES or NO . It is that Freaking simple .

 
tc1 2014-09-29 08:12:11 

In reply to POINT
Stanford won 1game

 
spider 2014-09-29 08:28:18 

In reply to POINT

My view is that those who associated themselves with Stanford have something to be ashamed of. Some of them are legends but they made bad judgments. that is no crime, anybody can get fooled but I'm sure it is not an experience they are honestly proud of. Kudos to those who saw him for who he was and resisted being lured into his net.

 
POINT 2014-09-29 09:04:53 

In reply to tc1

Perhaps you are unaware of the fact that prior to the match vs England ; Stanford's Cricket Team played some warm up matches and won all the matches they played , including a match against
Trinidad & Tobago . You , like others on this Forum need to get your facts right .

 
tc1 2014-09-29 09:10:02 

In reply to POINT


you are right, they beat T&t?

 
mikesiva 2014-09-29 09:21:29 

In reply to spider

Never again...fond memories.

 
BeatDball 2014-09-29 10:00:34 

It seems like silly stewpid spiderman hasnt got a dictionary! Here dunce, i will define that vocabulary for U: to give new life to. That is the least of what allen stanford did for WI cricket. Suddenly, everybloody wuz enthralled to see WI bwoys playing with enthusiasm. Windians were suddenly feeling, 'hey mon, wi can kid arse again' bcoz wi had set the tone for exciting batting n bowling, dominated the scene for close to 2 decades N wi can rise again!

 
openning 2014-09-29 14:27:55 

Anyone who compare Stanford to any development should be in jail with him.
Stanford did not used his own owned money, it was like a kid in a Candy Store, only a tief would have spent someone else money.
It is a stupid comparison which is senseless.

 
Ridge 2014-09-29 15:00:33 

In reply to spider

Who or what will bring us there?


My eleven sons
lol lol

 
brians_da_best 2014-09-29 15:02:43 

I doubt we'll ever return to the top. We might win a few games here and there, unearth the odd encouraging talent, and challenge the leading teams in the world every now and then, but I'm afraid that's as far we'll go.

However much we try to create FC structures and stuff, the fact remains that a lot of our players don't feel anything for the West Indies. They're happy when they're called up to play, but only because of the money and fame. Nationalistic pride is missing. When they're dropped from the team, they couldn't care less whether the team wins or loses.

Many fans wish the team to lose when their favourite players are not on it.

The borader point is that the concept of the West Indies has been lost completely on this generation of players. They grow up in school learning their respective national anthems, and a trip from Jamiaca to Barbados is a foreign trip.

It is but natural to assume that they are a group of players representing their respective countries, and there is very little to bind them together. In the years gone by, their was genuine pride, inspirational captains, and generally the team was doing well, so newcomers blended in nicely.

Now with the team in doldrums, new comers are simply concerned about their pay cheques, and as such, hardly care whether they win or lose.

 
POINT 2014-09-29 17:55:23 

In reply to openning

You apparently believe that the members of Stanford's Cricket Board share the same surname as Stanford . FYI that aint the case .

You fail to comprehend that I have
ALWAYS been careful to state Stanford's Cricket Board which is different from Stanford ; and therefore should not be
tarnished with the same brush .

Now if you are unable to differentiate
Stanford from his Cricket Board , then all the education you supposedly got went down the drain ; and you are utterly beyond help .

 
POINT 2014-09-29 18:00:35 

In reply to spider

I have never ever condoned what Stanford did that has landed him in jail .

Until Stanford was arrested , I seriously doubt that his Cricket Board
or anyone in the Region was aware that he was using other people money .Were
you aware of this ??

 
spider 2014-09-29 18:29:19 

In reply to POINT

A lot of people knew Stanford was fakery and not upstanding. There was even a lady in Antigua who was honored with Stanford and refused to shake his hand and told him his honor diminishes hers. There were legends who told him to fuck off and never joined his circus.

 
tc1 2014-09-29 19:39:17 

In reply to spider
Stanford did nothing for WI cricket, Point said he won 1 match against England and 1 against the Tits, so he was the Sir Frank of WIC

 
POINT 2014-09-29 20:03:09 

In reply to tc1

Your head is exceedingly hard . Stanford's Cricket Board was an entity,that was different from Stanford himself . Essentially it was his Cricket Board , and their Team that deserve credit for the matches that their Players won .

Now the fact that you bluntly refuse to acknowledge the fact that it was his Board that was in the governance of Regional Cricket in the shortest format of the game is astounding .

Stanford himself as I have consistently pointed out in this Forum is an American ; therefore his
knowledge about Cricket & organizing
& running a Regional Tournament was
very limited .

I know that you have to stick to your
talking points , because you simply do not want to admit that it was his Cricket Board that ran the Regional Tournament .

It is generally acknowledged that when you find yourself in a Hole , you need to stop digging . You however prefer to keep on digging furiously ; refusing to understand that the Hole you have dug is so freaking deep , you now cannot get out of the Hole .

 
tc1 2014-09-29 20:45:32 

In reply to POINT

what fugery are you talking, can you separate 'Jamaican Dave from the West cricket board on matters pertaining cricket. This is an example

when a person commit a crime, you look at all aspect of their life and their associations, and whether their behavior affected than organization.

the New York Mets was required pay restitution on behalf of Madoff.

 
openning 2014-09-29 21:58:12 

In reply to POINT

You fail to comprehend that I have
ALWAYS been careful to state Stanford's Cricket Board which is different from Stanford ; and therefore should not be
tarnished with the same brush .

Now if you are unable to differentiate
Stanford from his Cricket Board , then all the education you supposedly got went down the drain ; and you are utterly beyond help


The about is all nonsense, do you really think Stanford could had and pay all though people, if he was not using other people's money?
You really think Stanford had a budget, he should have spent more, and BTW, he underpaid all the board, as far as I am concern.

You think the WICB or any other cricket board would put up all that money for one game, or if Stanford was spending his own money, would you be speaking so highly of his board?