Is he one of the top 5 strikers of this millennium??
Thanks!
@RMc@
Message Board Archives
Zlatan!
2014-10-01 19:27:35
2014-10-01 20:12:30
In reply to SpudsMcKenzie
Easily. Too many underrate him.
2014-10-01 20:25:30
In reply to pkriston
Ok.
I wanna hear Commie and Imusic and Cheeks and Dave on this too.
@RMc@
2014-10-01 20:41:28
In reply to SpudsMcKenzie
Yup
But Zlatan biggest problem is Zlatan
2014-10-01 20:44:00
In reply to SpudsMcKenzie
He is...
Hard to say that bout a football player who is 33.
He is a beast, lazy at/most times but dammit...his abilities infinite and very unpredictable. So unpredictable that he does things that he can't even explain...again, because he has the ability to do them.
2014-10-01 20:44:17
In reply to imusic
No doubt...
2014-10-01 20:56:19
In reply to SpudsMcKenzie
millennium? not even if you start it today!
2014-10-01 21:21:40
In reply to SpudsMcKenzie
If we not counting Messi and CRonaldo then lets see....
Ronaldo, van Nistelrooy, Villa, Eto'o, Drogba, Shevshenko, Raul, Henry, Forlan and Del Piero,.
Ronalo, Raul and Villa I'd rank ahead of him overall when considering everything from skill, to consistency to big game performances.
After those 3 its open and he can make the 4th or 5th position.
2014-10-01 21:31:18
In reply to Andy99
Villa? Forlan? Shevchenko? Drogba? del Piero?
Surely you joking padnah
2014-10-01 21:44:24
In reply to SpudsMcKenzie
One of the most skillful ever.... Insane talent.
2014-10-01 22:04:21
In reply to imusic
Was just listing top strikers of the era to see who'd possibly be ahead of Zlatan, 3 made it.
Villa
Record goalscorer for Spain with lot of big game performances.
Had 10 seasons in a row in club football where he scored atleast 20 goals, remarkably consistency only ended when he got his leg broken in the CWC and was out for a long while. Didn't come back anywhere close to the same player he was.
Forlan
Top performer for Uruguay over the years. Golden Ball winner at the world cup. Two time European Golden Shoe winner.
Shevchenko
Ballon d'Or winner, legend in what was a top class Milan team of the early 2000's.
Drogba
Chelsea legend, record Ivory Coast Goal scorer. Big match performances.
del Piero
Not a goal machine like some others but he was classy.
Simple look at his wiki page shows how highly many held him. Was in the FIFA 100 (125 players named by Pele as the greatest), vote as one of the top 50 players over the last 50 years in Europe, one of the top champions league scorers.
Speaking of Del Piero, brings me to another genius who I forgot to include and that is none other than Totti. For hos remarkable consistency and longevity I'd rank him ahead of Zlatan as a footballer but not as a striker. Judging them as a striker Zlatan wins.
2014-10-01 22:24:06
In reply to Andy99
Zlatan way ahead of everybody bar Messi and both Ronaldos bro
2014-10-01 22:27:39
In reply to imusic
Okay.....all i need now is Commie to come een.
@RMc@
2014-10-01 22:29:42
In reply to Lenks
So unpredictable that he does things that he can't
Here a that
There a that.
Everywhere a that that
Ole man Lenkie had a that.
E i E i O!
@RMc@
2014-10-01 22:35:54
In reply to SpudsMcKenzie
lololol...yuh done know...
No editing....no time fi dat.
So yuh did tell mi wid yuh but, but, but....memba?
Here a that
There a that.
Everywhere a that that
Ole man Lenkie had a that.
E i E i O!
There a that.
Everywhere a that that
Ole man Lenkie had a that.
E i E i O!
Above funny nuh rass tho'...
2014-10-01 23:03:53
In reply to SpudsMcKenzie
Spudsie...
Tek a look
Few can kick it hard as him...
Look
Compilation
2014-10-02 00:15:48
In reply to SpudsMcKenzie
The Miloslave Mecir of football.
In the second tier of forwards...like the Paolo futres and Henrik larssens of this world. In fact if I had to compare him with anyone it would be Matthew Le tissier.
2014-10-02 06:18:11
Zlatan and Le Tissier as equals?? Worse yet Paolo who?????
Definitely not the words of a football pundit...guru...what ever you wish to call it.
2014-10-02 09:41:39
In reply to Commie
Second tier??
Wow!
I need to see them other guys u mentioned.
Larssens??
Ok den!
@RMc@
2014-10-02 10:24:17
In reply to JahJah
Yes..put Zlatan on that SOuthampton team and he would win as much as Le Tiss did. Nowt.
Zlatan is overrated imo. Hugely so.
Which is why Sweden has done fork all with him in the side. Stripped of all the superstars in club football he has done less with Sweden than any so claimed superstar.
Hagi, Stoichov, all with mediocre teams showed their ability to carry teams.
Zlatan is a luxury. A great player to have in a team with all the great parts but when asked to be THE man internationally, woefully short.
2014-10-02 10:28:49
In reply to Commie
Hagi, Stoichov, all with mediocre teams showed their ability to carry teams.
brilliant! those two carry Romania and Bulgaria on their backs for 8 years.
2014-10-02 10:35:54
In reply to camos
Dont get me wrong...Zlatan is a great club footballer, but those can be overrated.
Another one he is in the calibre of, though he is definitely a harder workingfootballer, and a different type altogether, is Alan Shearer.
Great club footballer, but at the highest level, when asked to carry his team, not good enough.
All my opinion of course.
2014-10-02 10:39:50
In reply to Commie
agree he is a very good baller, but the statement by Spud is a big surprise.
2014-10-02 10:44:09
In reply to camos
Honestly...Ibramovich is the type of player you go to watch matches for. Just like how I felt about Miloslav Mecir.
In that regard....he is a baller. You just have to be prepared to be dissapointed in the crunch.
2014-10-02 12:02:10
In reply to Commie
Yes..put Zlatan on that SOuthampton team and he would win as much as Le Tiss did. Nowt.
A very weird argument! It's not only about what you win but also how many you score. Which side, whether mediocre or good, has Zlatan failed to score regularly for?
Zlatan is a luxury. A great player to have in a team with all the great parts but when asked to be THE man internationally, woefully short.
He wouldn't be alone in that regard. How much has Messi won with Argentina for example? He is supposed to a god. Not just a very good footballer. So if a god like Messi can't do shyte, especially with Di Maria and dem by his side...what the hell you expect of Zlatan playing with the Olsson twins and dem?? Argentina finally reached the final and Messi...
Ahhh...Stoichkov. He was in that Bulgaria side that Sweden (with Henrik Larssons of this world) rinsed 4 nil in the 3rd place play off 1994, right? The deliciousness of it all is that Henrik Larsson scored in that 4 nil blow out, but Stoichy couldn't even get a peep pon goal. Not just about winning is it.
No matter what you want to say, to equate a Zlatan to Le Tissier (who couldn't score ONE goal for England) is VERY weird. Yes - let's use the word: weird.
2014-10-02 12:11:44
In reply to JahJah
The thing about Zlatan is unlike many other great ballers I have rarely seen any team prep for him.
And no its not just about how much you score. In that regard Shearer is a god.
Its about how you shape a game and win games. Zlatan is notorious for disappearing in big games.
2014-10-02 12:12:08
In reply to camos
Hagi was a striker? If he were playing as a striker and waiting for service dog would nyam he suppa!
As for Stoichkov the irony is that mediocre rookie Larsson was one of the 4 scorers that murdered his Bulgaria side for 3rd place. Did his back break?
2014-10-02 12:13:06
In reply to Commie
And no its not just about how much you score. In that regard Shearer is a god.
Shearer was a great striker! You doubt that?
Its about how you shape a game and win games. Zlatan is notorious for disappearing in big games.
That's not true. Wouldn't even bother to debate that. He's notorious for NOT giving Sweden his all. That's all. Look, Zlatan doesn't play midfield. Eliminate from your head that he's supposed to be competing with one.
Paris St Germain isn't a particularly great team but he did very well for them in the CL last year.
2014-10-02 12:31:35
In reply to JahJah
PSG have like every other team surrounded Zlatan with a galaxy of talent that enables them to win their leagues.
Its when he is supposed to take charge in big games that he retracts. And Shearer was a very good striker who disappeared at the highest level despite scoring a ton of goals.
2014-10-02 13:24:06
Interesting.
Ibra has played for many teams. He's arrogant, not a good teammate, and plenty people dislike him. I not really a fan of Ibra...
BUT
Every club Ibra has gone, that team has won their league title.
Ajax won the Eredivisie in 2001-02 and again in 2003-04 (they didn't win it in 2002-03. The next time they won the Eredivise was in 2010-11...an 8 year gap)
He then moved to Juventus who won Serie A in 2004-05 and 2005-06 (The next time they won Serie A was in 2011-12...a 6 year gap)
He then moved to Inter who won a hattrick of Serie A titles in 2006-07, 2007-08 and 2008-09 (they won in 2009-10 but haven't won Serie A again since)
He then moved to Barca who won La Liga in 2009-10 (barca got even stronger after Ibra left and went on to arguably be the best club team in history)
On to Milan the following year who won Serie A in 2010-11 (they finished 2nd in 2011-12 with Ibra and haven't won Serie A since 2010-11)
In 2012-13 he moved to PSG who promptly won Ligue 1 in 2012-13 and 2013-14
In a 13 year period, Ibra has played for 6 teams and his teams have only failed to win their domestic league title twice.
Wherever he goes, that team wins the League Title. Not only that, but after he leaves those same teams (barring Barcelona) don't win the league
That is incredible no matter how you look at it.
He's been the Serie A player of the year 3 times and Ligue 1 player of the year twice
He's been top goal scorer in Serie A and Ligue 1 twice each.
Not sure what criteria one uses to define "big games", but essentially, if you want to win a league title (which many say is the toughest to get because of the grind) you don't get much more "big game" than Ibra in club football.
2014-10-02 13:29:38
In reply to imusic
The question you have to ask is how many of those teams were not expected to win their league
The big games are like Champions League and World Cup games where the difference is going to be a special player.
He hasn't been that.
2014-10-02 13:38:19
In reply to Commie
The big games are like Champions League and World Cup games where the difference is going to be a special player.
I see. So conveniently, no big games in domestic league competition.
By your criteria, I guess George Weah was "second tier" too.
2014-10-02 13:42:55
In reply to Commie
nah nah nah................them stats/results that Imusic mentioned are mindboggling.......in terms of how good the guy has been...his teams winning all them titles.
You cant say that WITHOUT him, those teams would still have won. Come on maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyynneee...
@RMc@
2014-10-02 13:48:07
In reply to SpudsMcKenzie
Zlatan is well known for picking his teams.
In that regard he is flawless.
PSG will bomb out at some stage and Zlatan will be as invisible as ever.
2014-10-02 14:11:02
In reply to Commie
Zlatan is well known for picking his teams.
Sooooo....Zlatan tells these teams to pick him and they willingly oblige eh? What power!
Maybe steve nash could tek some lessons from Zlatan
2014-10-02 14:27:02
In reply to imusic
You know exactly what I mean.
Samuel Eto btw scored 108 goals in 145 games for Barca.
Is Eto a GREAT ?
2014-10-02 15:13:17
In reply to Commie
What's your point?
Ibra scored 57 goals in 88 games for Inter in Serie A. That's a goal every 1.5 games in the League universally acknowledged as having the stingiest defences in football, where scoreless ties and a 1-0 victory are the norm, and the league that's a virtual burial ground for strikers
Eto's Barca stats you provided show a ratio of a goal every 1.3 games in La Liga where 4-0 scorelines are the norm for the likes of Barca and Real.
Maybe Eto'o more well known for picking his club. He WAS certainly GREAT while he was at Barca.
2014-10-02 16:30:31
In reply to imusic
a lil backative
Btw PSG beat Barca without Zlatan this week.
If anything talks to the zlatan conundrum its that its difficult to assess him without noting that he has always played on stacked teams.
2014-10-02 16:37:57
2014-10-02 16:38:50
In reply to Commie
If anything talks to the zlatan conundrum its that its difficult to assess him without noting that he has always played on stacked teams.
That come like saying it difficult to assess Iniesta because he always played on stacked teams.
What a perspective
2014-10-02 17:27:08
In reply to imusic
Except Iniesta has won it all on his stacked teams, Spain and Barca.
Zlatan hasnt !
A Zlatan less Barca played better without him. A Zlatan less Inter played better without him.
When ever have you seen any Iniesta team play better without him.
And this week the phenomenon continues. A Zlatan less PSG looked better against Barca than they ever have.
Of course he wont be inspiring Sweden to anything either. And I like seeing Zlatan play.
2014-10-02 17:53:42
In reply to Commie
A Zlatan less Inter played better without him.
When was this?
Also...please explain your definition of "played better"
And this week the phenomenon continues. A Zlatan less PSG looked better against Barca than they ever have.
"Better" while being dominated on the night? All the while commentators saying Barca and their porous defence were lucky Ibra wasn't on the field?
"Better" than last seasons CL QF stage in Barcelona when Barca needed a late strike from Pedro to tie the game and go through on away goals?
Obviously you have another definition of "ever" too.
2014-10-02 17:58:16
In reply to imusic
When was this?
When they won the Champions League !
You obviously have seen Zlatan play alot. He is on song, great to watch. The problem is he SHRINKS at crucial moments, in big games.
Flop
The statistics and history books don’t lie.
In two years with Juventus, and three with Inter, Ibra scored just nine European goals in 41 appearances. Most tellingly, the attacker never found the back of the net in the knockout stages, leading to his label as a ‘big-game European flop’. All of his strikes, barring a meaningless injury time consolation against Bayern Munich for Juve, came in the group stages against so-called lesser teams – Rapid Vienna (2), PSV (2), CSKA Moscow (2), Fenerbahce and Werder Bremen.
Inter’s dreadful Champions League record, prior to this season, has been well documented, but where was Ibra during the last 16 losses against Valencia and Liverpool? Last year against Manchester United, his all-round build-up play at Old Trafford was sublime at times, and neither Nemanja Vidic nor Rio Ferdinand could get close to him, but he failed the most important endeavour – putting the ball in the back of the net – missing a number of gilt-edged chances. When Juventus were dumped by Liverpool in 2005, Ibra choked, and this was the case the following campaign against Arsenal. The only time while playing in Italy when the hitman turned it on in a knockout game was in a tie against Real Madrid in Turin.
Ibrahimovic and his supporters often complained that the real reason why Ibra failed in Europe was not because he was a Champions League flop, but rather down to the fact that he was playing in teams that didn’t suit his technical qualities. Fabio Capello’s Juventus, Roberto Mancini’s Inter, and Jose Mourinho’s first term at Appiano Gentile championed substance over style. These are teams who dominated domestically through efficiency and muscle, rather than skill and artistry. In the Champions League, as proved by Milan’s dominance between 2003 and 2007, you need flair and imagination to triumph, something that Mourinho has brought to Inter this season with great success via the purchases of Samuel Eto’o, Wesley Sneijder and Goran Pandev.
Zlatan fans said that their idol just needed a club who played to his strengths. Then the real Ibrahimovic, who dreams of the Ballon d’Or, would take the Champions League by storm. There could not have been a more perfect club in this regard than Barcelona. Undoubtedly the best attacking unit in the world, and one of the best of all time, Ibra was gushing at the prospect of linking up with Lionel Messi, Andres Iniesta, Xavi and Co.
But, while the former Ajax man has had a decent first season domestically (he always does - remember he has won six straight league championships), scoring a number of decisive goals including the winner at Camp Nou against Real Madrid, his European misfortunes have continued. Four goals and just two assists from 10 games is not a great return when you are surrounded by so many world class players. Meanwhile, his former club have roared to the Champions League final without him. With their bank balance 46 million euros plus big-game performer Samuel Eto'o better off.
In two years with Juventus, and three with Inter, Ibra scored just nine European goals in 41 appearances. Most tellingly, the attacker never found the back of the net in the knockout stages, leading to his label as a ‘big-game European flop’. All of his strikes, barring a meaningless injury time consolation against Bayern Munich for Juve, came in the group stages against so-called lesser teams – Rapid Vienna (2), PSV (2), CSKA Moscow (2), Fenerbahce and Werder Bremen.
Inter’s dreadful Champions League record, prior to this season, has been well documented, but where was Ibra during the last 16 losses against Valencia and Liverpool? Last year against Manchester United, his all-round build-up play at Old Trafford was sublime at times, and neither Nemanja Vidic nor Rio Ferdinand could get close to him, but he failed the most important endeavour – putting the ball in the back of the net – missing a number of gilt-edged chances. When Juventus were dumped by Liverpool in 2005, Ibra choked, and this was the case the following campaign against Arsenal. The only time while playing in Italy when the hitman turned it on in a knockout game was in a tie against Real Madrid in Turin.
Ibrahimovic and his supporters often complained that the real reason why Ibra failed in Europe was not because he was a Champions League flop, but rather down to the fact that he was playing in teams that didn’t suit his technical qualities. Fabio Capello’s Juventus, Roberto Mancini’s Inter, and Jose Mourinho’s first term at Appiano Gentile championed substance over style. These are teams who dominated domestically through efficiency and muscle, rather than skill and artistry. In the Champions League, as proved by Milan’s dominance between 2003 and 2007, you need flair and imagination to triumph, something that Mourinho has brought to Inter this season with great success via the purchases of Samuel Eto’o, Wesley Sneijder and Goran Pandev.
Zlatan fans said that their idol just needed a club who played to his strengths. Then the real Ibrahimovic, who dreams of the Ballon d’Or, would take the Champions League by storm. There could not have been a more perfect club in this regard than Barcelona. Undoubtedly the best attacking unit in the world, and one of the best of all time, Ibra was gushing at the prospect of linking up with Lionel Messi, Andres Iniesta, Xavi and Co.
But, while the former Ajax man has had a decent first season domestically (he always does - remember he has won six straight league championships), scoring a number of decisive goals including the winner at Camp Nou against Real Madrid, his European misfortunes have continued. Four goals and just two assists from 10 games is not a great return when you are surrounded by so many world class players. Meanwhile, his former club have roared to the Champions League final without him. With their bank balance 46 million euros plus big-game performer Samuel Eto'o better off.
2014-10-02 18:18:49
In reply to Commie
With their bank balance 46 million euros plus big-game performer Samuel Eto'o better off.
And what have they won since? They won the CL title that year because the core of the team was still intact. The core of which Ibra was a vital part to 3 consecutive Scudetto titles.
What has "big game performer" Eto'o done since?
Eto'o left Barcelona. They went on to higher heights.
Cristiano Ronaldo won league titles with Man United. He left to go to Real Madrid and repeatedly got fucked by Messi and co. He's now finally won La Liga, a Golden Ball, and a CL trophy.
You think it easy to just be on a winning team?
Ibra is NOT in Messi nor Ronaldo's class. He not in the Brazilian Ronaldo's class either. But he better than every other striker bar those 3 that played during his time.
Has he failed at World Cup level? Absolutely. But then allyuh will say Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo failed at World Cup level too.
Has he failed to win a CL title? For sure. So how many CL titles has Luis Suarez won? Robert Lewandowski? Arguero?
And again, I reiterate...I am NOT an Ibra fan. But I do respect his accomplishments which are considerable
2014-10-02 18:54:51
In reply to imusic
He has also failed at European championship level. Dont forget that.
I am not saying he isnt a very good player. I am saying he is overrated though.
I like players like Zlatan. They are worth the price of admission. But he isnt the core of any team imo. More like the luxury option you can afford to have fail.
2014-10-02 20:20:01
In reply to Commie
I am saying he is overrated though.
On the contrary, I think he's underrated by many....for precisely the reasons you gave.
Is like saying Charles Barkley, Steve Nash, John Stockton, Karl Malone etc were all somehow "less than" because they never won an NBA title.
By the same token, nobody (outside of their family maybe) says that Mark Madsen, BJ Williams, Byron Scott, Steve Kerr, Danny Ainge etc were "great players" because they won multiple titles.
2014-10-03 03:25:35
In reply to Commie
Dude, I am no Ibra fan. I wouldn't rank him in the top 5 strikers of this generation. I would possibly rank him in the top 10 though...top 15 yeah. He isn't overrated. He is damn good.
My only bone of contention, as you will see from my posts, was that you equated him with Le Tissier! I couldn't believe my eyes!!! The only thing compelling about Matt was that he is an English player with a name like that. Like Le Saux and Jagielka!
2014-10-03 07:24:49
In reply to imusic
I am NOT an Ibra fan. But I do respect his accomplishments which are considerable
Hold a second here lemme get to the bottom of this right about now.
If u rank the man so igh, why arent you a fan?
You can only be a fan of the top 3 or 5 or 10??
Please explain why you are NOT A FAN!!
Thanks.
@RMc@
2014-10-03 08:07:34
In reply to JahJah
You need to do your research on Le Tiss.
Put him on those sides zlatan played with and he would be a mega star.
First midfielder to score 100 goals in the premiership.
Surrounded by crud his entire career.
2014-10-03 10:33:38
In reply to SpudsMcKenzie
Because he's a compound skunt on and off the field.
2014-10-03 11:43:44
In reply to imusic
Yes he is...
Like this convo...
Reason why I don't discuss football and football players beyond a certain limit.
2014-10-03 12:36:09
In reply to imusic
Because he's a compound skunt on and off the field.
Really??
Because from the little I've seen of him, I like him.
Plz dont say the obvious now.........phew....thanks!
I'm talking about liking him as a player.
Who cares if u like his personality?? NO ONE!
We dont wanna know if u have some kinda man-crush on him.......we not interested.
Lets leave this discussion on if you like him as a player please.
Thanks!
@RMc@
2014-10-03 14:38:39
In reply to Commie
Put him on those sides zlatan played with and he would be a mega star.
That's what you think. He could just as easily be what he was for England. Useless!!!
First midfielder to score 100 goals in the premiership.
Didn't he score about 50 goals from the penalty spot? He was an attacking fielder...and damn near a forward a times.
2014-10-03 17:17:57
In reply to SpudsMcKenzie
Spudsie...
imusic said it all...
Yuh read everything?
2014-10-03 18:09:15
In reply to JahJah
Learn a likkle
Genius
2014-10-05 17:46:00
In reply to Commie
nuff skill indeed.
@RMc@
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