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Revert back to the old contract...

 
matchstick 2014-10-22 13:17:52 

..temporarily and let the cricket go on...


Give the players a deadline to get the right wipa ppl in place to negotiate the senior team pay part...

Why is it not that simple?

 
Admin 2014-10-22 13:18:49 

In reply to matchstick

Why is it not that simple?


Because the fix is already in on the new contract. It's not easy to watch your own head rolling.

_r

 
WestDem 2014-10-22 13:19:20 

In reply to matchstick



Too many egos clashing...no one want to take de high road...its a West Indian thing...BTW I agree with you and this is what de players also requested!

 
googley 2014-10-22 13:26:59 

In reply to WestDem

you think the players will agree to the prior contract?
the one Ramnarine strong armed WICB into and overpaid the players!

lol lol lol



there is no going back...Holding said it..both parties are seeking to get the better deal. No one focusing on the middle road! wink

 
WestDem 2014-10-22 13:29:00 

In reply to googley



there is no going back...


Yuh do realize dat BCCI calling de shots now, right? lol lol lol

 
eXodus 2014-10-22 13:31:56 

In reply to matchstick

wavell had a good idea...but he fudged it royally.


from what i heard, BCCI refused a replacement team, so the 65M figure they tossing around is a red herring of sorts

it does however show the magnitude of the ineptness of the WICB/WIPA/Players in handling this situation.

The refusal of cameron to meet the players after dubai was a grave error in all this. I do NOT agree with the players to strike however the management should have headed this off when they had the chance. Instead, they hide behind due process

 
dcbreds 2014-10-22 13:34:53 

Exactly what is the increase to first class players?

 
silver 2014-10-22 13:36:46 

In reply to matchstick


170-2 all out for 215. These guys are getting paid what they deserve. We need a professional league.15 years of this madness is enough

 
Commie 2014-10-22 13:41:24 

In reply to matchstick

Revert to an old mou that was thrown out of court for being flawed?

An mou that caused the wicb to leak millions on technicalities.

You think the players advisor request to go back to the MOU was an innocent one? The man resign from wipa as soon as he lost that advantage.

The players have to assume control of their union and the Wicb have to be prepared to set aside the 35k.

but above all the Brinkmanship has to end.

 
googley 2014-10-22 13:42:29 

In reply to WestDem

then BCCI better start paying the players! lol

 
Admin 2014-10-22 13:44:11 

In reply to Commie

Let's keep an important thing in mind. The players in India agreed to redistribute the $35K. Very important.

_r

 
Commie 2014-10-22 13:47:35 

In reply to Admin

The players in India are not a negotiating bloc. They asked for Dave to abandon WIPA as a primary condition and dangled their supposed agreement as a carrot.

Boldface terrorism.

That is blackmail and brinkmanship and we know who is known for that.

Dicks came out, fencing started.

 
Cuter 2014-10-22 13:50:15 

In reply to Commie

I dont even think Dave had the authority to do that

 
camos 2014-10-22 13:52:02 

In reply to Commie

Revert to an old mou that was thrown out of court for being flawed?



why the court would not suspend such an agreement, if "flawed"

 
Admin 2014-10-22 13:56:21 

In reply to Commie

It was an extraordinary situation.

- Arriving in India without contracts.
- Contracts arrived with 60%-70% pay cut.
- Call Wavell and ask WTF.
- Wavell says, wait, don't sign, lemme find some money.
- Wavell calls DaveC and mumbles...
- Dave says FU, we got an MOU that you signed.
- Wavell mumbles something to players about we trying to find the money.
- Players again say "WTF dude, what did you sign. Where's the MOU?"
- Wavell mumbles some more.
- Bravo writes letter saying "dude, these conflicts catch up with you and Michael Hall."
- More letters are sent to DaveC, saying "dude, Wavell had no authority to sign whatever it is he said he signed. We still ain't see the MOU."
- Dave says to please to F off, I only dealing with Wavell.
- Players warn that situation is untenable and action may be taken.
- Players play and ask again for situation to be settled.
- Nothing happens.
- Players play again... etc. Another warning.
- Nothing.
- Players play again.
- Shit hits fan.

Who's the terrorist now?

_ryan

 
FuzzyWuzzy 2014-10-22 13:58:59 

In reply to Admin

The ones twisting arms big grin

 
Admin 2014-10-22 13:59:41 

By the way, the old MOU was untenable and not a workable document. I agree on that. In such an extraordinary situation when DaveC realized that Wavell really didn't have a mandate, he could have paid the $35K this time, save the tour, and let WIPA sort out their shit afterwards.

The record will show that he buried West Indies cricket over $35,000. No amount of spinning will change that.

_ryan

 
Admin 2014-10-22 14:00:20 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

The ones twisting arms


Correct. Dave and Wavell. And let's not forget Michael Hall.

_ryan

 
WestDem 2014-10-22 14:01:43 

In reply to Admin



Darn...dat is it very WICBlike!!!

 
camos 2014-10-22 14:02:01 

In reply to Admin


as simple as that! he should try to protect Hinds who was willing to work with him.

 
Courtesy 2014-10-22 14:03:13 

In reply to Admin

Was a letter sent to BCCI about IPL?

Just asking.

 
Admin 2014-10-22 14:06:12 

In reply to Courtesy

I haven't seen that letter myself. Only heard about it from third-hand source. Unless I see it, or hear it from a usually reliable source, I'll treat it as rumour.

_ryan

 
Courtesy 2014-10-22 14:09:05 

In reply to Admin

lol lol lol

Thanks.

Anyway, de players saw the IPL issue as a threat and did something to safeguard their IPL future.

big grin

 
np 2014-10-22 14:09:14 

In reply to Admin

While ALL THREE - WICB/WIPA/players are at fault to some degree ... the ball stops at WICB (managers and admins of WI cricket.

1. Players find fault with MOU and tell WIPA -- no action
2. More complains - no action ... approach WICB to intervene. WICB should have intervened and agree to MEET with players (a) mid tour or (b) post tour .. but a definiteve EFFORT to meet should have been WICB's first choice. They goofed.
3. WICB ultimately called off tour, Players simply threatened action - they did not STRIKE.

Buck stops with WICB. In relation to the probable WICB/WIPA underhandedness (Cameron/Hinds) --that will come out if anything there in the DISCUSSIONS with players .. players shoud not go into any discussion without "dem lawyers" if they do have a grouse with WIPA ...


and finally WICB takes bulk of BLAME for tour F-UP ... they ultimately called off tour, Players simply threatened action. India should KICK the shit out of them ... shut dem down. Our cricket will crumble for a while ... and REBUILD!

 
Admin 2014-10-22 14:10:26 

In reply to Courtesy

Was a letter sent to BCCI about IPL?


The fact that I haven't seen it yet suggests it may not exist. If it existed, I would have received a copy.

For example, I have a copy of the new MOU. But Bravo doesn't have it. What kind of world do we live in?

_r

 
np 2014-10-22 14:11:10 

In reply to Admin

By the way, the old MOU was untenable and not a workable document. I agree on that. In such an extraordinary situation when DaveC realized that Wavell really didn't have a mandate, he could have paid the $35K this time, save the tour, and let WIPA sort out their shit afterwards.

The record will show that he buried West Indies cricket over $35,000. No amount of spinning will change that.


I dont pray at all .. but Amen to that!!

 
Admin 2014-10-22 14:11:13 

In reply to np

Thank you Sir. I have nothing to add.

_ryan

 
Courtesy 2014-10-22 14:12:02 

In reply to Admin

For example, I have a copy of the new MOU. But Bravo doesn't have it. What kind of world do we live in?


Life in unfair for our international cricketers isn't it?


big grin

 
WestDem 2014-10-22 14:14:20 

In reply to Courtesy



Can you imagine what they think of the players? The more yuh read about dis, the more you wish the BCCI force a change if they don't want to do it themselves!

 
Courtesy 2014-10-22 14:17:48 

In reply to WestDem

BCCI want no unions. We must help ourselves to help our workers get outa dis mess.


big grin

 
Commie 2014-10-22 14:19:29 

In reply to Admin

Most people on this forum were lauding WIPA and laughing at WICB when the cases were being lost mainly on technicalities based on the previous MOU. Take Sarwan. Unfit as hell, and could not fulfil his contract in England because of it. Yet...took the WICB to court and won large coin on arbitration because of HOW his lack of fitness was managed.

The same Sarwan I pointed out, waited 18 months to get paid by the IPL ! FICA nor his agent could get any answers. Did Sarwan strike ? Go in media and call IPL dutty etc ?

WHen you build that climate of, yes its unfair but its my advantage, what do you expect when the WICB gets it thrown out and now tricks the isht out of your rep.

No maturity from anyone.

Just crass brinkmanship.

What is happening now is based on a relationship which has one lingua franca, MONEY, and which both parties are constantly trying to pull the wool over each others eyes.

Relative to our population this is the classic millionaires vs billionaires scenario.

Noone should give a damn except for when these guys are ready to play the game.

 
Admin 2014-10-22 14:22:13 

In reply to Commie

Can't argue with anything you said except that this section isn't entirely accurate:

Yet...took the WICB to court and won large coin on arbitration because of HOW his lack of fitness was managed.


That's not what the case was about. It was about the public utterances. Some background to help.

_r

 
summergon 2014-10-22 14:24:47 

Pollard losing his retainer contract started all this.

 
WestDem 2014-10-22 14:25:19 

In reply to Courtesy



Wavell mek sure that there will be no more unions in WI cricket... cool

How come no one remember Viv's take on this since October 10th?

"How much did this individual (Hinds) know before they came on tour because that is the topic that is going to be of interest," Richards said. "To be fair, some may say it sounds a little bit much for players to be getting such huge fees but at some point you need to have an understanding about what I am coming on tour for. It wasn't in the best interests of the players that represent us for this to be played out in such a manner, especially in India where they are going to be playing against the defending champions in the 50-over format. Wavell Hinds may have some explaining to do when they get home."!

 
Admin 2014-10-22 14:31:18 

In reply to WestDem

Good find there from Viv. How did I miss that. This deserves its own thread.

_r

 
Commie 2014-10-22 14:31:35 

In reply to Admin

I remember that case well.

The arbitrator btw got a slating in the judgement to overturn the MOU. In fact I would be surprised if he could get work as an arbitrator given how his work was done.

Our resident legal beagle Walco actually did the same without even knowing the substantive nature of individual cases.

For fairness here is the other side.

WICB statement

I was talking to an old friend about this and she concurred that Wes Hall was the cause of all of this. Wants to be friends with everyone and ended up doing a shitty job in putting an MOU in place.

This is leading to all we are seeing now. A my turn mentality.

Btw...that wise lady friend also pointed out something I never really thought about.

Many of those unpaid WICb directors have seen and in some cases stewarded many of the players who end up playing for WI and now defy them.

Dont underestimate the psychology of the 'ingratitude' of it all.

More reasons to stick to just a small group of pros.

 
Courtesy 2014-10-22 14:32:24 

In reply to WestDem


Wavell too might be a victim here and not the villain.

He was hookwinked from within and without.

Poor Wavell. Some day he too will get to tell his story.

 
Admin 2014-10-22 14:44:57 

In reply to Commie

Wes Hall.


I almost called in (my fingers were soooooo itchy) to the Mason show last night to remind them that Wes Hall and Roger Brathwaite signed that old MOU. Not only signed it, but hailed it as the best thing to happen to West Indies cricket. But they woulda censored it so I put my phone away.

_r

 
Admin 2014-10-22 14:47:02 

In reply to Courtesy

Unlike what people say, Wavell is not a stupid guy. I find it very hard to believe he was hoodwinked and fooled.

_r

 
Admin 2014-10-22 14:48:13 

In reply to Commie

More reasons to stick to just a small group of pros.


Yeah, but what happens when they too (Sammy, Roach) acquire wisdom?

_r

 
Courtesy 2014-10-22 14:48:38 

In reply to Admin

Then why, according to Bravo's letter he (Wavell) asked that the tour contracts not be signed?

Something is amiss here.

 
WestDem 2014-10-22 14:48:55 

In reply to Admin



Good find there from Viv. How did I miss that. This deserves its own thread.


Gonna start a thread!

 
Admin 2014-10-22 14:51:20 

In reply to Courtesy

Then why, according to Bravo's letter he asked that the tour contracts not be signed?


He really thought Dave would find money to meet him half way. This what should have happened. It was the sanest option.

_r

 
Commie 2014-10-22 14:51:26 

In reply to Admin

I meant at the WICB level.

 
Courtesy 2014-10-22 14:52:43 

In reply to Admin

Have you got any information that Wavell actually saw these tour contracts?

My sources say otherwise.

 
Commie 2014-10-22 14:53:05 

In reply to Admin

Can we do real world examples.

What is the income of Bravo, Sammy, Pollard. How much will they lose from their take home.

What is the income of a fc player. What will they gain.

What is WICB projected revenue for the financial year. They give up 25% to WIPA, are they projected to make a profit ?

 
Admin 2014-10-22 14:54:44 

In reply to Commie

The entire concept of a West Indies board needs to be redone from scratch. Lucky told them. Patterson told them. They fuq'n agreed that it's necessary. Then Wilkin came in and told them again and even explained the best way to do it. They told him to get lost.

Padna, these men told Wilkin it needs to be done. They asked him to help them map it out. He did. Then they told him he is wrong and to go away.

And men asking about the future of WI cricket after this. And this is where we pull out the bugle and do the Last Post.

_r

 
JOJO 2014-10-22 14:57:54 

In reply to Commie

Many of those unpaid WICb directors have seen and in some cases stewarded many of the players who end up playing for WI and now defy them.


Yesterday, I made a comment about Sammy's principles---Anyway.

The issue of directors' remuneration needs to be addressed. You can only get good people interested if there is something in there for them. Do it either through fixed pay or through de facto ownership.

 
Commie 2014-10-22 14:58:02 

In reply to Admin

Hunte agreed. Brought it to the Board and they voted it away.

How do you ask a group of people to make themselves redundant.

Thats the one thing they will show decisive consensus on.

 
np 2014-10-22 15:26:41 

In reply to Courtesy

Then why, according to Bravo's letter he (Wavell) asked that the tour contracts not be signed?
When I first read about that I wondered same .. but never got back to it ...
what's your take ... you having given it some thought?? I see Admin thinks Dave let WH down!!

 
Courtesy 2014-10-22 15:31:12 

In reply to np

All I can say at this stage Wavell's intentions were pure.

There was a letter from the players all drafted yesterday to go out to the media which would have thrown some more light on the matter.

We will have to wait.

 
camos 2014-10-22 15:34:49 

this thread running so long and Spuds hasn't commented on "[b] revert back"
[/b]? lol

 
np 2014-10-22 15:44:47 

In reply to Courtesy

... Wavell's intentions were pure.
Wow ... then it is "super sad" how things were allowed to turn without PLUGGING it ...
but I truly believe the buck stops with WICB - Dave C etc etc, EVEN as I know that players/WIPA/WICB have multiple-culpabilities in this whole fiasco turning into a DEBACLE of immense proportions for WI cricket.

Any lawsuit is bad for WICB and imagine if WI gets banned from ICC ... our cricket is SETBACK for a long while. Lessons to learn!!

 
Courtesy 2014-10-22 15:49:16 

In reply to np

I concur.

 
Gmoney 2014-10-22 15:51:01 

In reply to np

Get off the panic button my friend... BCCI cannot afford to isolate another member state from touring in India.

No Pakistan and West Indies could be bad for BCCI

 
matchstick 2014-10-22 17:50:31 

In reply to np

I dont pray at all .. but Amen to that!!


+1

And that's all I am saying in the lead post...

Just keep the old pay scheme for the upcoming tours... let the cricket play and deal w a better pay agreement.