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This might seem a simplistic view by many here but I can't get past the fact that the players' anger should firstly be with their union. Terminating the tour was extreme and wrong.

In reply to spider\ss
Pal this so commonsensically obvious that I fail to understand why anyone would disagree with it.

In reply to Hendra

Geezer the WICB canceled the facting tour.... NOT THE PLAYERS!!!!!

They did not have to cancel the tour.
They had other options!!!!

The BCCI know that..

.. and that`s why they dont hold the players responsible!!

In reply to Cleg

WICB were deliberate and calculating in their collusion with WIPA when they diverted the funds of the senior players without divulging any information to them. In that situation, the players have every right mash up the place.

In reply to Cleg
Where the Board went wrong is that they should have recalled these guys and sent another team. Then if the BCCI didnt accept it, they would not blame the WICB

In reply to Cleg


LIAD!!

In reply to Cleg

In reply to spider

What is instructive is that, in every new uprising, the players who weren't part of the previous one is always part of the current one.

In reply to watchman

In reply to Cleg

what the wicb could have done does not excuse the blatant unprofessionalism displayed by the original touring party

West Indies cricket have been through a lot in the last 15 years but i just don't see it surviving this one

In reply to silver

In reply to silver

In reply to spider

i could not agree with you more

In reply to warr

can't understand why any reasonable person would think abandoning the tour was the right thing to do.

In reply to Cleg

Cleg de man waiting on you to defend you statement that the players didn't cancel the tour.

I find it amazing people still have this stance.

I book your band to perform at my bar for the week. You band say dem ain't playing another note after de 4th night.

Sure is me dat cancel de show but dat is purely semantics.

In reply to nick2020

In reply to Cleg

So did they just feel like the WI team should not play anymore matches or that the players were too tired to continue? Why did they tell BCCI the rest of the tour was cancelled?

In reply to spider

i don't think he understands why the decision HAD to be taken

unless the board don the whites and and a limited overs Kit who else would have played not like india would have accepted any depleted squad anyway

In reply to Cleg

THE PLAYERS WITHDREW THEIR SERVICES!!!!!

In reply to hawk

Why is that so difficult to understand?

In reply to spider

I am still trying to figure that out

In reply to spider

Ain't the it difficult to understand. Is just that he no want to understand. Cause he feels he has to be on the side of the players at al times

Though it was the players who informed the Management team in India that they no longer wanted to play leaving the WICB with no other choice but to cancel the ting.
Not saying the WICB did enough (by not meeting with the players in India) to possibly prevent the situation.
But it was the players who withdrew their services by refusing to play anymore.

Small money better than no money.

In reply to spider

In reply to Pacy

WICB would have no choice but to get back to the table I feel because the players could always strike. I don't want to tell any lies on him but even Courtesy has said the WICB has bent over backwards in the past because they wanted to keep the cricket going. They would have to do it again even though the mow was negotiated with the players representative.

Do you think that the fact that the there was an agreement reached with WIPA and WICB count for anything at all?

In reply to spider

In reply to Pacy

Last thing I heard was that Hinds and members of the board were on their way to India to speak to the players. Couldn't they have at least waited for that meeting?

I agree, however, that Cameron should have gone to talk to them.

In reply to spider

In reply to Pacy

You mean the whole world knew but they didn't? It was widely reported.

what difference does it make casting blame...right now, it's time for solutions

In reply to spider

Two itty bitty questions that must be answered by ALL .

DO OUR PLAYERS POSSESS THE POWER TO CANCEL

ANY TOUR ?? WHO GAVE THEM THAT POWER ??


ARE OUR PLAYERS IN THE GOVERNANCE

OF CRICKET IN THE REGION ???


If the answers to these two questions is Yes ; then they the Players are at fault for cancelling the Tour to India . It is therefore then , incumbent on the BCCI to sue the Players rather than the WICB .

It stands to reason that if the answer is NO ; then it is the WICB that cancelled the Tour ; and sued by the BCCI . tO MY KNOWLEDGE , the BCCI have publicly stated
that it blames the WICB and is currently thinking about suing the WICB .

So all this talk about the Players is simply asinine . I don't recall hearing the BCCI suing the Players .

In reply to spider

I am of the belief that what YOU stated as
the Headline of your Post caN also be applied to the WICB .

In reply to POINT

you and I disagree. Everything bad in cricket for you can be blamed on the worst international cricket board. I think they have much to answer for but in this instance I think the players were totally unreasonable.

In reply to spider

that was my point all along.

The word cancel is again semantics. The tour is cancelled/ stopped/halted/ceased/interrupted once one or any of the parties needed to participate can or will no longer fulfill the agreed to obligations. Any abandonment of any game/games put the tour in jeopady. Those games could not have been made up due to time constraints.

The BCCI wants all to believe that if the players had simply packed up and left they wouldnt have faulted anyone? Essentially thats what the players did paralysed the tour because their reps acquiested to WUCB asked for changes. If not Bishop's statement about withdrawal by players is false?

how much has WICB lost in not relenting to the players demand for approximately $600000? For starters if they paying $35,000/day, their take should be at least twice that amount, plus money from the BCCI and other smaller sponsors . The damage to the brand is also a big consideration.

In reply to camos

Did the players lose anything? Are they?

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

who you think had the greater loss?

In reply to spider

In reply to spider

The WICB unlike the Players acted with great foresight , Vision & Wisdom . This perhaps is the reason why it is known as the Worst
International Cricket Board in the World .

BTW the President of the WICB was in DUBAI , but apparently meeting with the Players would have elevated the status of the players to that of the Emperors l and that apparently is strictly forbidden .

In reply to POINT

I believe I did say the president should have met with the players.

Do you see anything wrong with how the players handled this issue considering that WIPA is the body that negotiates on their behalf and WIPA had an agreement with the worst international board in the world?

Do you think the players need to have a vote to sort out their problems with WIPA, to see if they are keeping WIPA or changing the leadership or establishing a new union?

HOLDING:

In reply to googley

You can stand together and still be wrong.

In reply to spider

that was in response to the question on the table: Who called off the tour?

Answer: the players refused to play.

so technically it was the players. I read somewhere that WICB offered to send in a replacement team but BCCI said no.

In reply to googley

Ok. Thought it was clear the players decided to pack up and go home. Don't know why anyone would want to say it was otherwise.

In reply to spider

well, keep reading other threads...you will see that "WICB called off the tour"


They had not choice...they had no team!

In reply to googley.
the problem started before the first ODI, the players were there until the end of the 4th,WICB said then it only talking with the union rep, does that seem like WICB was in any way concerned?

In reply to spider
Why the arrogant and incompetent Cameron/WICB allowed that to happened? The WICB have more money to lose than the 15 ODI players. The BCCI couldn't believe how foolish the WICB was for not realizing that.

In reply to Gupta
Cameron may well be arrogant and incompetent and as I said he should have met with the players. But when he had negotiations with the players' representative and they came to an agreement anybody would have thought that was the end of the matter.

I know everyone in their separate camps and will hardly listen to anything the other camp has to say but do you think the players at least share some responsibility for this crisis? And how do you think they should sort out their problems with WIPA?

In reply to camos

In reply to spider

In reply to Gupta
If Wavell didn't have the players' consent are you sure Cameron and WICB negotiators would have known? It is totally unfair to blame them for that. Say they did't handle the situation well when they became aware the players had a problem with the agreement if you want but how could any rational person blame them for coming to an agreement with Wavell?

And since they can't control everything you shouldn't say the WICB is solely responsible for cricket. The players have plenty power so they must have some responsibility as well.

In reply to spider

FYI it aint the Players who are in the governance of Cricket in the Region it is the WICB . That being the case it bears a greater responsibility than the Players in the current Crisis .

As I have stated elsewhere in this Forum ,if the Players were in the governance of Cricket in the Region , then they would have
had the greater responsibility regarding blame .

You seem to be suggesting that the tail is
wagging the Dog . That does not happen in reality . Equal blame cannot be apportioned to both the WICB & the Players .
BTW , the BCCI aint blaming the Players , it is blaming the WICB , because it knows
that it is the WICB that ultimately had &
has power in this matter .

Why is it that the WICB perpetually sends our Players on Tour and the Players are in the dark about their salaries ???

My take is that this is a tactic that it uses to coerce the Players , but evidently that does not concern you and those of your Ilk . The WICB has been doing this for decades .

Frankly it tangibly demonstrates that ,as I have often stated
in this Forum , the WICB is the Worst International Cricket Board in the World .

In reply to spider

Let ask you one question , , were you outraged when the WICB not only embarrassed
itself , but the whole freaking Region regarding the debacle at the inaugural Test Match at the Sir Vivian Stadium in Antigua???????

Let me remind you that the WICB has its Headquarters in Antigua . Were you outraged??? I was .

In reply to POINT

Not as outraged as you but I felt it was poor.

BTW I asked you a question about WIPA. Didn't see your answer.

In reply to spider

In reply to Gupta

I'm talking about at the time of the negotiations. How could I have been referring to when Cameron got mail from the players?

In reply to spider

If the WICB had decide to talk and the guys walk then I would give them some blame but the WICB basically said to them "take it or leave it argument done" !

In reply to spider

It seems to me that there was a breakdown in communication between the Players and Wavell Hinds . But to expect the players to agree to give up 75% of their salary is utterly
absurd .

I believe that there was some collusion between Hinds & Cameron in this matter .0ne
possible reason is that the both were well aware tha this would not go down well with the Players , and that they would possibly strike .

When that happened , they they can ban the Players , and get other Players to play
With less money .

REMEMBER IT HAS NOW BEEN REVEALED THAT THE

WICB CLAIMS THAT IT IS BROKE .

THIS SCENARIO SEEMS LOGICAL TO ME


What I believed foiled this plan is the fact that the BCCI has blamed the WICB for
the Crisis ; not the Players . I have no doubt that if the BCCI had blamed the Players they would have all been Banned .

There is a andance of evidence that proves those in the governance of Cricket in the Region are ONLY INTERESTED IN BEING IN THE

GOVERNANCE OF CRICKET FOREVER . NOTHING

ELSE MATTERS TO THEM ;NOT EVEN IF THEY

HAVE NO MONEY .


I believe that soon the WICB is going to approach the Regional Governments with hat in hand . When this happens , remember that I told you this first .

In reply to spider

In reply to Gupta

Did he know when they were actually negotiating whether or not Wavell had the consent of the players to give up what he gave up?

In reply to spider
it would be reasonable on his part to assume Wavs had the understanding of the players but whatever deal he struck should be conditional on subsequent ratification by union membership. If both parties are negotiating that means both Cameron and Hinds have to seek final approval.

My opinion is that Hinds was on the deal with Cameron. They are "boys" from way back. Hinds betrayed the senior players and gave up everything and more to Cameron. Some regional players may have benefitted but the structure of the WI cricket is on the verge of collapse mainly because of Cameron.

In reply to Gupta
was Hinds fooled or he knew what was going down?

In reply to camos

In reply to WestDem



refund?

In reply to WestDem

So Dwayne cut was the cappoship and then he realize the money not nuff!

In reply to camos



Money already paid is money gaan....its a non profit and non refund organization!!

In reply to spider

Look go listen to RALPH THORNE when Powen puts the audio in the Rum Shop , and then we can have a discussion .

In reply to POINT

I heard everything he said. And he actually says the players should share some blame and he is representing the players. He also said he is not asking for Cameron's head nor Wavell's head certainly not the head of any player. Thought that was interesting coming from the player's rep.

In reply to spider

HE did mention the fact that only the Players are being criticized , and he then went on to state that the Players ; WIPA ;
and the WICB were all at fault .

I do not have a problem with that assessment. You deliberately forgot to state
that he said : THERE MUST BE NO VICTIMIZATION REGARDING THIS MATTER .


YOU ALSO FAILED TO STATE THAT HE ALSO

STATED EMPLOYERS MUST GIVE THEIR EMPLOYEES

THEIR CONTRACTS BEFORE THEY GO ON TOUR .


THIS CRAP HAS BEING GOING ON FOR DECADES

BY THE WICB . HE ALSO SAID THAT THE

PLAYERS ARE ENTITLED TO HAVE LEGAL ADVISE

BEFORE SIGNING THEIR CONTRACTS .

Do you have a problem with the above ????????????

In reply to POINT

Did you not read where I said the man not asking for anybody's head? And only the players are being criticized? really?

What problem could I have with players getting contracts before playing or them having legal advice, though I thought that was done through WIPA.