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This is the bunch that are still quiet suh its up to de WICB do what they wanted all along!

man if they ban this lot, the cricketing world will waive goodbye to cricket against de WI....

its easy to say ban them but at the end of the day who feels it knows it. why should they be playing they skin out for unfair wadges while Cameron and Hinds are doing noting but getting they huge check. the first step in dealing with this issue should of been to fire the three main problems which is Cameron, Hinds and the west indies odi captain and then look to move forward what a shame it would be to the Caribbean and the rest of the cricketing world if an A team is sent to south Africa.

In reply to WestDem

ban? what ban?


they will just not get selected

In reply to WestDem


If they ban any Yadie, watch out fi Sista Pee

In reply to Cuter

That will even be worse...all the players have to say to de media is they were available for selection....then yuh know whats gonna happen?

In reply to hubert



Marlon will tek care of Sista Pee....

In reply to WestDemThey have disgraced Caribbean cricket. they should be banned, not only from the WI team but from any local cricket. They are a royal disgrace to WI cricket. Damn, do they have no shame?
CAn you imagine what leverage they would have if they had completed the tour, then when they come back, they lay out their case. Keep in mind the SA tour would be right around the corner
Ban them, ban them, bam them.
SA and India should also refuse to hire them. If they can do this to their own people, they are capable of only God knows what else. BAN THEM

In reply to WestDem

Wounded knees meet empty head

In reply to WestDem

No its not that simple. The players would not be picked, and the wicb and the selectors are not answerable to anyone on who they select to play.

No foreign board, including the bcci, can tell the wicb to pick a certain bunch of players.

And serve that striking bunch right, that's all. Them deserve to be dropped for at least a year

In reply to brians_da_best

That's what I was thinking too, in a way you don't have to ban them
Just don't select them

And then what a politician gonna force the selectors to pick someone. No this is different than the Chris Gayle sage.
Cricket has got to go on.
Firstly though WICB and WIPA needs a shakeup now that's where the politicians can come in if they looking for work (or votes) to do.

In reply to WestDem
What happens if the players refuse to pay for the amount on offer? Should they still be selected?

In reply to WestDem
Select them. Offer them a contract. Give them deadline. If they refuse to sign, move on.

In reply to dwinston



Almost two weeks pass since they pulled out of the tour...why no action yet from the board? WICB will not ban or not select those players beacuse they know it will be a nightmare fuh dem!

In reply to Baje



That is a smart way to go...but if the contract is acoording to the new MOU, they are not gonna sign and we will be back to where it all started!

In reply to WestDem

Can WICB risk sending a team of players who may not complete the tour?

In reply to dwinston

WICB would have said your representative agreed. So no change to the MOU or payment. Agree or we will select an alternate team. As usual

In reply to brians_da_best

Can we ban the WICB or WIPA for their role in this matter . After all the players reacted to something that was not a creation of their own. Ban for a year should not be one side only . However that recommendation is one of a bitter non thinker .

Who would want to pay to see a 2nd or 3rd tier West Indies ?

Do we have a competent A Team at the A Team level to challenge anyone at the pro level ?

Banning for a year achieves what ?

Players strike all over the world , NBA lockout of 2011 delayed the start of a regular season do you think NBA fans want to ban Le Bron , Kobe , Derrick Rose and others ?

There is no NBA or NFL without the players,similarly there is no West Indies cricket team without our best players . The entire Caribbean needs to get out of this plantocracy mode of thinking and business.

does WI cricket really mean that much to yall?

In reply to WestDem

so which WIPA leader will negotiate for the players?

that has to be sorted out first...afterall the board legally has to negotiate with the union.

In reply to WestDem



No sense banning all of them... in the last few years WI has invested too much in them to not have them available for the WC etc.

If anyone getting banned it will be the leader of the bunch, though i don’t think that will be the case.

Banning players won’t solve anything just like blaming one party…

Getting the team back on the filed is 1st priority
2nd Priority is getting back on BCCI’s good side

The board can request those same players to help w BCCI since both parties stand to gain from that.

In reply to Cornfusedthere is no moral equivalence with the NBA. The WI is an underachieving bunch. They have a union who may or may not have screwed them over. Their issue is NOT with the WICB but with their duly elected and legal union.

In reply to Cornfusedit's funny how we conflate the issues to make a point.

In reply to matchstick

This is what needs to get done but yuh do know its all a blaming game....They all need to put their ego aside and learn from the mistakes made...

if you are going to ban the best 15 players in the caribbean then west indies should be ban cause if the so called starts could not win consistently how do you expect any one else to

In reply to matchstick

Making a lot of sense bro,
can you imagine the return series
WI vs IND the completed tour
lol lol

In reply to matchstick

The underlying issue is that the board failed to act in a manner that placed meeting it's obligations as it's #1 priority. That's a management issue and no amount of getting players back on the field will appease that. The boards of all the other test playing countries are eagerly watching to see how this will be addressed.

Those boards understand that there will be disagreements. They understand that there will always be tension between players and management. That's a given.

What they WILL NOT TOLERATE is ANY Board's failure to meet their obligations. You do what you have to do to meet those obligations and in this case, the buck stops with the WICBC. Essentially, the other test playing countries are saying to the WICBC....Handle your business.

I suspect there is one action in particular that will give them some sort of assurance that it is being PROPERLY handled. But....let's see how they handle it.

In reply to Cornfused

And what do we have now? A almost over rated bunch of prima donas. Just do not select them.

In reply to imusic



Point stoll ur handle?

U stating a lot of obvious in that post.

In reply to matchstick

In reply to mitch44

Your "loyalists" of today are merely your "over rated bunch of prima donas" of tomorrow.

Exhibit A......Darren Sammy.

At some point, it may actually dawn on you that banging your head on that wall not going to make the wall any softer.

In reply to matchstick

I'll dumb it down just for you.

The BCCI...and the other boards...want to AT LEAST see Cameron removed as WICBC President and leadership they can trust put in his place. That's a start in the making nice businesss.

In reply to imusic

Source?

BTW Cameron seh "over my dead body'...

In reply to WestDem

Be careful what one wishes for

In reply to imusic

Ah juss kidding bro....man have to fulfil their mission by punishing fuh their deeds!!!

A strong message needs to be sent, so future players would think twice about walking out in the middle of the tour.

Is that stong message a ban? Our will the WICB sue WIPA/Players if they are sued or for any damages that they have incurred.

In reply to Cowcorner

An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.

In reply to WestDem

I would readily agree with you that the Players should not be victimized. However I believe that they will be victimized .

The Whole World is aware of the fact that
the WICB is in serious Financial straits .
In order to get some Financial breathing space it has to do cost saving measures .

By Banning the highest paid Players , because of their refusal to play , due to a 75% cut in their Salary . The WICB is going to claim that is the reason why certain Players are being banned .

Make no mistake this whole thing was a very carefully executed plan designed to portray the Players as the Villains of this current Crisis .

The people in the BCCI saw through this plan for two reasons , first they want our Players who play in the IPL to play in India . Secondly they realized that it is the WICB that called off the Tour . It is only Cricket Boards that have the power &
ability to stop Tours .

It was the WICB that offered to send replacement Players , obviously from Sri Lanka . This gives credence to my suggestion that this was a very carefully executed plan by the WICB .
THAT OFFERED TO SEND REPLACEMENT PLAYERS

The problem facing the WICB however is this . No matter how many stunts it pulls
they aint going to make Cricket in the Region improve .


CRICKET IN THE REGION IS ONLY GOING TO

IMPROVE WHEN THERE IS A COMPLETE

RESTRUCTURING OF ALL THE BOARDS IN THE

REGION .


The people in the WICB are not interested in structural changes . They are not interested in Good Governance . They are not interested in raising the standard of Cricket in the Region ;nor are they interested in getting our Players to be the best in the World .


THEY ARE ONLY INTERESTED IN BEING IN THE

GOVERNANCE OF CRICKET IN THE REGION

FOREVER . NOTHING ELSE MATTERS TO THEM ;

EVEN IF THEY ARE BROKE ; THEY ARE NOT

GOING TO CHANGE THEIR MODUS OPERANDI .

In reply to imusic
I do not recall ever mentioning "loyalist" Are we talking about the same thing?

In reply to POINT



All valid points there...The WICB are currently at the mercy of other boards but their egos are so petty, they want to penalize they players juss fuh de sake of showing who is in authority...its the colonial mentality they need to change...

It was a carefully executed plan indeed but they did not think about the ramifications if the plan failed and in this case it did....

De Bcci smell a rat since they had the meeting in Dubai while the players were in India requesting to be heard!

In reply to WestDem

dude, i know you are daring the board to ban the players because you are thinking what happened when the board banned the team under Lloyd that went to Packer.


However, there is one major difference here!

This bunch can't hold tie the shoes of the players under Lloyd's team. They have no ground to stand on when it comes to performance!

What would happen to WI cricket if they get banned? They would still be ranked #8!!!!

big facting deal!

In reply to googley



You and I know the Board cannot ban any of the players...

In reply to googley

Was it coincidental , that while the senior Team was Touring India the A Team was nearby in Sri Lanka ????? I think that this plan was hatched & executed by those in the governance of Cricket in the Region .

Now regarding Performance , YOU failed to state ,in your diatribe about performance ,the fact that in the Eras of Lloyd et al
most if not all of our Players played Cricket in England ;and other Countries when not representing the Region .

Obviously their skills were always harnessed , enhanced & honed . YOU also refused to acknowledge the fact that in the era when the only format of the game was Test Matches many matches were played before & in between the Test Matches ; Including playing more than half of the English Counties .

I cite this because these matches allowed
Players to get acclimatized to the Weather & the Pitches . Now when in the mid 1980's England imposed its ban on ALL Overseas Players . That affected our Players more than Players from other Countries .

Their Players when not representing their Countries , had & have the luxury of playing County ; League ; State & Zone Cricket . Meanwhile whe not representing the Region , our Players were essentially Idle .

It stands to reason that over time the skills of our Players will deteriorate .
Now when the third format of the game was introduced , it meant that Tours were Truncated , this means less time to get acclimatized to the weather & condition of the Pitches .

The reason why I am bringing all this to your attention , is the fact that our Players are at a big disadvantage when competing with Players on Teams ranked above our Team . These days two or three
days after arriving , matches are being played , because sometimes the Host Country has 2 or 3 Tour Teams visiting .

Now please cite the various steps the WICB
has taken to make our Players fully competitive . You and those of your Ilk love beating up on the Players , while excusing the Worst International Cricket
Board on the Planet .

In reply to WestDem

This lot?

What has this lot done outside of lick it cricket

In reply to archangel

Tone it down mate, this issue is about Hinds the CEO of WIPA and its members, the WICB being the owner of the product, must settle this issue, immediately.

In reply to archangel

The same can also be said about their Employer . But very few seem to be critical
of them .

In reply to Cuter

That's all they have to do--A De facto Ban?

In reply to hubert

not nooice

In reply to POINT


So what do you think of the current MOU. You bemoan the fact that because of English actions, we have no professionals. The WICB is trying to create a professional structure at home. Unfortunately someone has to pay

In reply to WestDem
They will ban them, I'm willing to bet they will!

In reply to Baje

FYI England imposed its ban in the mid 1980's . WE are now in 2014 , give or take a year the ban was imposed roughly 28 freaking years ago . So this means that about 28 years passed before the WICB decided to have a Professional League .

In this forum , I have stated that when the an was imposed :

OUR PLAYERS & TEAM WERE

THE BEST IN THE WORLD


In my opinion , the ban by England was aimed mainly at OUR Players . The Players from other Countries were merely collateral damage .

CRICKET IS ALSO PLAYED OFF THE FIELD


Please research who had the fastest Bowlers in the World when it was decided
to introduce the 1 Bouncer per over Rule
in Cricket .

But I have digressed . At the imposition of the Ban , the WICB could have gone to various Corporations & Business Houses in the Region , to Sponsor a Regional Pro or Semi Pro Cricket League .

They did nothing , that in itself is not
surprising ; because the people in the WICB have never ever been known to possess
Foresight & Vision .

Sponsors love Winners , and our Players &
Team were the best in the World . I do not think that it would have been difficult for the WICB to get a Regional League started .

By not doing anything ; and with the ban in effect , overnight the status of our Players changed from being Full time Cricketers ; to being Part time Cricketers
who when not representing the Region or participating in the Regional Tournament were essentially Idle .

Obviously over time their skills got dull
and their Stamina - Mental and Physical suffered ; their ability to concentrate for long periods ; and their ability to pace a innings also suffered .

So for most of 28 years all the skills of our Players not only deteriorated , but also their competitiveness .

In reply to POINT


Well WICB over the last 4 years have been trying to do something. Pybus has a plan, and WICB is trying to implement the Pybus plan. So what do you think of the MOU?

In reply to dwinston

You ever watched some of these NBA teams?

In reply to Logicthe difference between the two scenarios is: the NBA players UNION had cause against the owners; the players had cause against the union and took action against the "owners" instead of the union. Got it?

In reply to dwinston

Let us assume players had called for an emergency meeting and WIPA leaders are sacked since they made a mistake. Find a new leader for WIPA. All good.

So what happens with the MOU. Who will decide if the MOU has to be reviewed?

In reply to dwinstonWe can take up the matter of the union and the need to nullify the MOU on the basis of the President's obvious conflicts of interest if you would like, but I was responding to your reference to the mediocrity/unworthiness of the players in making your argument about the lack of equivalence to the NBA situation. It is a popular refrain of Caribbean people to suggest that players don't deserve the "high" salaries that they are getting and that they are only ranked 8th in the world. My response is that THEY ARE RANKED 8TH IN THE WORLD! (getting Pointitis I know, but people like you are doing that to me). That makes them world class - not an insignificant achievement for a mix of small island states will limited resources. A few matches ago these unworthy (contractless) players soundly trounced the Indian team selected from a population of 1.25 billion.

The fees that some of these players command in the various T20 tournaments reflects the fact that they are NOT over-paid. Unless we want to slip even further below position 8 we better start addressing the real problem - the incompetence of our administrative leadership - and not the players.

In reply to Logic
Will consider your argument/point.

In reply to Baje

Look you can talk about the last 4 years , I AM TALKING ABOUT THE LAST 28 FREAKING YEARS . Let me again state that the WICB missed a golden opportunity to have a Regional League
in the mid 1980's at the juncture , when abruptly England decided to Ban all Overseas
Players .

That Ban was aimed mainly at our Players ,
the Players from other Countries were merely collateral damage . I don't blame
England , if Players came to your Country
made a good living ; and then in International matches whipped your Ass , YOU would be upset . That was wha the Ban was about .

My beef was & is with those in the governance of Cricket in the Region . When the ban was imposed our Players & Team were the best in the World .

That presented the WICB with a Golden Opportunity to do something to ensure our Players skills did not deteriorate . Sadly the WICB did nothing , as usual displaying
its lack of Foresight & Vision .

My perspective is that it would have been relatively easy to get Financial Sponsors
to form a Regional Pro or Semi Pro League
; OUR Team & Players were the BEST in the
World ; and Sponsors love WINNERS .

In reply to dwinston

Whether or not they are underachieving is not the issue , if that is the issue then pay based on merit or give performance incentives and see if that helps . All that to say that banning these players achieves nothing but more separation and divisiveness in West Indies Cricket. Some information coming to hand locally is that the WICB is now attempting get a team to go to SA absent from these players and the A team . Most are refusing due to the amount being offered . Backhand modus operendi from the WICB continues.

In reply to Cornfused

When some folks dislike one side of any issue, they come with gunny sack bizniz....The issue at hand is not about on the field performance...it is more about the WIPA/WICB disrespecting the players...if they are absolutely confident that the players pull out ah de tour, BAN them nah....why two weeks later and naada zilch from dem...

In reply to Baje

The MOU ; WE now are fully aware is a
Memorandum of Misunderstanding . This is what has spawned the Crisis . In addition to that is the fact that those in the governance of Cricket in the Region relish displaying their animosity towards the Players . I strongly believe all this is because they feel vastly superior to the Players .

That Crap has got to stop .They may have more education , but having education does
not make anyone Thoughtful or Wise the people in the WICB are classic cases regarding this . They bluntly refuse to believe or understand that the Players must not be treated as Serfs .

I believe the Mimic Men have inherited this trait from those who were in charge of the WICBC , were initially unhappy to
appoint Sir Frank Worrell as the Captain of the West Indies Team .

In reply to POINT

When last was there a good man in the WICB. Or have all of them for the past many years been just liars and thieves out to line their own pockets and care nothing for the development of cricket in the region?

When all is said and done nothing can be done to the players. The state of our cricket is so poor that no reserve team can be sent to SA or the WC.

So we could face a situation where (a) all the parties - WICB, wipa and players kiss and make up or (b) Cameron and Hinds resign (c) Cameron only falls on his sword for the sake of appeasing the BCCI.

I suspect that when Cameron and co really examine the situation they will all try to save themselves and go for option a. But someone has to pay for the madness that took place in India. Though IMO most of the blame lies with the players they are almost untouchable.

Yes, Bravo may resign as captain but we just can't afford to punish the senior players. With whom will we replace them ?

In my humble view the "Over paid for underperfirmance" phrase is basically referring to Test performances which has been lacking for years. In the IPL and T20 formats they are as reliable as their counterparts. Of course many of us here have been complaining for years about how our players lack the ability to concentrate hence they fail in the,Test format; they excel in T20/ODI cause of absence the need to concentrate for but a few overs.
In short they are paid adequateky for ODI etc but should be paid like Pakistan on an incentive basis for Test matches.

In reply to Benjie What does senior players mean? Is it age or experience?



If yiu referring to experience then for the WC yep it would be spiteful to "ban" all the players: idiotic too!

For Test matches most of these players were already being weaned from the side.
;

In reply to Scar

People coming to see chanderpaul and kraigg brathwaite bat....and shannnon gabriel and tino best bowl?

This is who people will pack the stadia to see?

In reply to imusic

Maybe we are delusional in believing our product is so good that people still to come to see us.

In reply to imusic

Actually people come to see West Indies win Test matches. By any means necessary. I doubt they came to see loss after loss hence the lowet attendance at ghe grounds.

Like I said the ODI capabilities of ghr current OD players is fine and warrants the pay they get, the Test team is in transition and most of the ODI players are not currently featured in Tests.

The turnout at ODI in the region is because the team is competitive there. If the current players infused into the Test team can continue the latest gains "home" stadiums will get that winning feel again. The current "seniors" are getting long in the tooth and injuries are eating into playing time as a result.

In reply to nick2020Overseas they come to see their own teams in Tests regardless, in ODI/T20 they enjoy the individualism and fast paced setting quickies for that orgasmic release you get win or lose.

In reply to Scar

Which people?

All 20 that turn out to watch the 1st test against Bangladesh in St Vincent?

Or the 35 that packed Beausejour in St Lucia to witness the 2nd test match of that series?

In reply to imusic

In reply to spider

The point I have been making for over a decade in this Forum , is the fact that the people in the WICB with REAL POWER are the Regional Boards Presidents who select the President of the WICB .

Obviously , who ever is the President is beholden to them and has less power than them . BTW in this Forum a few days ago I stated that the hysteria about

firing only Cameron was misguided , because
Cameron cannot make a move without the support of the Regional Boards Presidents

That being the case , I stated that ALL of them should resign ; Cameron is only being made the Fall Guy . I do not ever intend to change my assessment .