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King Viv struggled against 'star' pacers?
2014-10-30 13:15:25
2014-10-30 13:26:41
In reply to matchstick
This was always a discussion back in the days in the West Indies....some folks think he used to hide from WI top fast bowlers.... 
I think the author missed the trick by not including his stats against them in England!
2014-10-30 13:28:46
In reply to WestDem
he did... all the way at the bottom of the article.
2014-10-30 13:30:25
In reply to matchstick Why quotation marks around pacers? Werent they truly star pacers?
2014-10-30 13:33:59
In reply to WestDem
So Surya's claim that Viv beat up on Madanlal and Binny was right.. 
2014-10-30 13:41:36
Whenever someone writes an article such as this,I always read into the background of the author and I go thru the things that he relies on in his arguments.
Now if Viv was failing against Guyana and you assume that he was failing against Guyana because Croft was dismissing him and that turns out to be true that is fine.I wonder how many of you take the time to critically analyze these articles and realize that the mere fact that it is published in a stellar magazine does not necessarily mean that the author knows any more about cricket than you do.
I recall Viv in World Series Cricket in Australia.I also recall Imran Khan's comments about bowling to Viv and so I do not take an article such as this too seriously.
2014-10-30 13:43:42
In reply to matchstick
And Lara struggled against the WIndwards and Leewards quicks.
And Bradman benefitted from having stumps which were smaller in dimension than what was used from the modern era onwards.
The fact is all that is pointless, because at the highest competitive level, where it mattered, he averages closer to his average against the best bowlers of his era (47) than both Lara and Tendulkar. In fact Tendulkars record against the best quicks of his era is pathetic.
2014-10-30 13:43:54
In reply to matchstick
My Bad...did not realize he was hiding from dem in England also... Suh dis mek Lara GREATER than VIV by anodda mile cause Lara ownn de Bajan quicks... 
2014-10-30 13:44:17
In reply to Dukes Yes, yes! Duke duke duke duke of earl!
2014-10-30 13:45:49
In reply to Dukes
guyanese off spinners use to mesmerize Viv....de last game Duck in de article, I was there....Buttsie got him fuss ball
DID YOU NOT HEAR THIS ARGUEMENT IN GUYANA?
2014-10-30 13:49:59
In reply to WestDem
Gibbs love to tell the story how he outsmarted Viv during shell shield games!!
2014-10-30 13:51:57
In reply to googley
True....Buttsie seh all yuh have to do was twirl up yuh hand a little more than normal and baadaam, he playing fuh de invisible turn...
2014-10-30 14:02:08
In reply to Commie
STFU!!! as customary yuh dishing red herring.....Richards wuz Bim bunny...Big Bird, Daniel, Clarke dem own smokin joe...Macco and Cookie Monsta wuz he daddy tuh...
GWEH!!! stick to bigging up shoitehound titties....
2014-10-30 14:24:50
In reply to Dukes
I always read into the background of the author
Stats don't have backgoung you know boss... just context.
Most of what is presented is raw stats.
Now if Viv was failing against Guyana and you assume that he was failing against Guyana because Croft was dismissing him and that turns out to be true that is fine.
If he struggled against croft and lost his wicket to someone else because of the pressure croft built how does that factors in?
2014-10-30 14:27:45
In reply to Commie
Why is it not a worthwile question to ask how would one of the greatest batsman in his time fear against his own bowlers?
In fact Tendulkars record against the best quicks of his era is pathetic.
Good, and there are stats which will prove that...
But your general statement in response to the linked article is very biased in admitting or attempting to address the context of the presented stats.
2014-10-30 14:48:04
If d master blaster did pooooooooor vs wi pacers who were d extreme dominant fast men of the time, but that he blasted d opposition bowlers to oblivion, werent WIs all happy n glad back then?!! N wuznt that more important?
2014-10-30 15:18:55
In reply to BeatDball
Dude...Viv scuked bigtime in WI regional cricket in those days...I believe he was selected to de WI team based on his success in England....this article is just pointing out dat and I personally heard this arguement umteen times in Guyana...you never heard this before?
I don't think he had any regional ton in de WI before he debuted in test.
Weh Larr and Linc deh?
2014-10-30 15:27:17
In reply to WestDem Meh nah that know stuff bhai. D county cricket that Point always brings up, hmmmmm. Well, i guess the article is educational N that wi arent trying to diminish sir viv's batting prowess! This is very important: Her Majesty did bless d man, didnt she?!
2014-10-30 15:37:15
In reply to BeatDball
point is pointless in regard to county cricket.
many players that could not make the WI team excel in county cricket.
2014-10-30 15:41:38
In reply to tc1 I take umbrage at that remark - Point is a smart bloke. I admire smart people! But, those county games did keep wi bwoys active, didnt it?
2014-10-30 15:58:53
no stats to back it up but as a yout watchin Shell Shield between 82 and 89 I just sort of got the impression that Viv never took Shield matches that seriously. He came in, tried to entertain and sometimes it worked sometimes it didnt. he seemed that much more focused in windies colors.
2014-10-30 16:39:47
In reply to BeatDball
Nutten the Point said can be taken seriously, the facts are that during this period 60-80 WI cricket regional was one of the best in the world. I am of the opinion we would have became 'great'.
look at the Aussie first class season, they play no more than 10 games. it's not how much you play, but the quality. that count.
2014-10-30 16:40:08
And what about OZ pacers...and this is TEST level....Viv did well against Lillee Thompson,Pascoe,Lawson and others....aren't the Oz pacers worthy? Aren't they "star" pacers?
What about his record in World Series Cricket?
2014-10-30 17:29:23
In reply to matchstick
To what I do remember back in those days listening to radio commentary. Viv was a gun slinging batsman played his shots from the off and the opposition wanted to discipline him and he wanted in return fancy doing to them before they done it to him.
2014-10-30 18:51:35
In reply to Dukes
Gotta agree with you Dukesy. I'm of the same opinion.
This author ought to take a look at Viv's record in World Series Cricket on Australian soil against the best pacers in the world before opening his trap!
I personally believe Viv had nothing to prove in WI domestic cricket.
2014-10-30 19:12:29
In reply to matchstick
Would be interesting to see Richie Richardson stats against the WI pacers. He was as good as any against raw pace.
2014-10-30 19:43:18
Lara used to belt Marshall,Ambrose,Walsh etc..I mean real licks..
2014-10-30 19:45:47
In reply to bravos
Not Ambrose.
Lara averaged mid 30s vs Leewards.
2014-10-30 19:47:10
In reply to Commie
K ,but I personally saw him hit him for some sixes at QPO.,lost ball an ting...
2014-10-30 19:51:27
In reply to bravos
Ambrose averaged 14 vs TT and Leewards still given how bad they have been over the last 15 years still has a marginal lead over TT in fc cricket.
Leewards pacemen used to zero in on Lara.
2014-10-30 20:15:55
In reply to StumpCam I now feel good stumpy bai!
2014-10-30 20:37:44
In reply to Commie
Think Ambie used to zero in on Hoops too. I hear he buss he head once
2014-10-30 21:44:23
After Freddo ,Viv was the best against quick bowlers.
Saw him put some lash pon Slyvester Clarke after he was hit in the first over.
Even better against spin
2014-10-30 21:58:52
Viv beat any and all bowling, once again the article proves that stats although a good yardstick to measure by, is still lacking when paired against eyewitness accounts.
One cannot look at that solely and judge, need to use more parameters to get a full conclusive picture.
2014-10-31 06:53:57
In reply to Runs Bai...that is one real hard box u just gave wi!
2014-10-31 09:00:14
In reply to Runs
stats although a good yardstick to measure by, is still lacking when paired against eyewitness accounts.
or maybe nostalgia
2014-10-31 09:05:03
In reply to matchstick
Seeing is disbelieving
2014-10-31 09:44:05
In reply to Runs
so how do you account for his average dropping to the low 40s during the last 9 years of his career?
2014-10-31 09:49:44
[b]In reply to googley[/b
That's a simple one it is called aging.
Failing eyesight, reflexes
Look bro the fact of the matter is this , anyone who disputes Viv's ability to bat pace bowling has some serious issues, may need a medical check-up.
2014-10-31 10:08:40
In reply to googley
Its quite simple.
There was no stat padding. No desire to break some statistical record.
Viv simply played the game to win, and if he didnt, he started all over.
A very simple philosophy.
2014-10-31 10:14:41
In reply to Commie
agree but other men who used the same philosophy have been heavily critized and some argue/debate about their greatness 
one can't have it both ways!
2014-10-31 10:16:48
In reply to Runs
age me rass! 9 years chief! not 1 or 2 or even 3...9!!
what do you tell Gibbs who love to talk how he outsmarted Viv and bowl him in Shell Shield?
2014-10-31 11:10:03
In reply to googley
It takes all types to make this world.
Allan Border, Miandad and Viv were all very different batsmen but all were great. You can argue scales of greatness, which is where Viv is set apart from them, but greatness isnt a 'like' like on facebook.
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