The Independent Voice of West Indies Cricket

Message Board Archives

Jason Holder new ODI cappo!

 
anthonyp 2014-12-20 13:37:46 

Just saw it on WICB Facebook page! shock

 
Andy99 2014-12-20 13:40:05 

In reply to anthonyp

Da faq?

West Indies One Day International Squad: Jason Holder (Captain), Sulieman Benn, Carlos Brathwaite, Jonathan Carter, Sheldon Cottrell, Narsingh Deonarine, Leon Johnson , Chris Gayle, Denesh Ramdin, Andre Russell, Marlon Samuels, Lendl Simmons, Dwayne Smith, Jerome Taylor

West Indies Twenty20 Squad: Darren Sammy (Captain), Sulieman Benn, Carlos Brathwaite, Dwayne Bravo, Sheldon Cottrell, Andre Fletcher, Chris Gayle (subject to fitness test), Jason Holder, Ashley Nurse, Kieron Pollard, Denesh Ramdin, Andre Russell, Marlon Samuels, Lendl Simmons, Dwayne Smith

 
Commie 2014-12-20 13:40:18 

In reply to anthonyp

Board Elections coming soon.

 
positiveg 2014-12-20 13:40:49 

In reply to Andy99

So does that mean this is probably the world cup squad?

 
Andy99 2014-12-20 13:41:37 

The WICB today announced that all-rounder Jason Holder has been appointed West Indies One Day International Captain. The 23-year-old Holder takes over from Dwayne Bravo.

WICB thanked Bravo for his service to West Indies cricket in the capacity of the ODI Captain after taking over from Darren Sammy a year ago. The recommendation for transition of the captaincy role was made by the Clive Lloyd chaired Selection Panel and was approved by the Board of Directors.

Lloyd said that Holder’s appointment was with an eye to the future.

“Jason is one of the good, young players who we believe will form part of the long-term future of West Indies Cricket. We expect him to be around for a very long time. He is a young man with a very bright future. We have invested in him. He was part of High Performance Centre and he also played for the West Indies Under-19 Team and the West Indies A Team,” Lloyd said.


Lloyd the explayer is ah forking cancer.

 
Andy99 2014-12-20 13:46:46 

In reply to positiveg

Maybe....just maybe they resting the likes of Bravo, Pollard, Roach, etc. to try a few other players.

 
anthonyp 2014-12-20 13:46:53 

In reply to Andy99

Imagine the world cup is just around the corner.. real fcukery this

WICB just know how to ruin promising players careers

 
Drapsey 2014-12-20 13:48:09 

In reply to Commie

Board Elections coming soon.

Such a reactionary post.

Let's congratulate the young man on his elevation to leadership position, even if would (grudgingly) convey endorsement on the insight of the new West Indies Cricket leadership.

 
jacksprat 2014-12-20 13:49:27 

WICB thanked Bravo for his service to West Indies cricket in the capacity of the ODI Captain after taking over from Darren Sammy a year ago. The recommendation for transition of the captaincy role was made by the Clive Lloyd chaired Selection Panel and was approved by the Board of Directors.

It seems evident that Bravo is being phased out. What also seems apparent is this he is no lock to make the World Cup Squad as, I imagine, most had assumed.

What becomes of his role as the touring squad's spokesman and resident "letter writer" ?

 
Andy99 2014-12-20 13:49:38 

In reply to anthonyp

Lloyd said that Holder’s appointment was with an eye to the future.


Exactly!
Should be thinking short term with the world just a few month away then after that you can rebuild and think long term.
Does Clive have any common sense?

 
Commie 2014-12-20 13:52:39 

In reply to Drapsey

Board elections are coming and Bim are the likely biggest impediment to a Cameron re-election.

The rest you can figure out. Super Dave is a clever guy. He may well prevail.

 
johnjo 2014-12-20 13:53:55 

Victimization.

No Sammy,Bravo,pollard.

I'm just laughing at the folks who said anything was better than Hunte Hilliare and Sammy.

This shit is just too funny.

 
Andy99 2014-12-20 13:57:26 

Since Bravo was made captain he score 691 runs at 31 with a S.R of 87 and took 49 wickets at 24 with an economy of 5.71.

His 691 runs were the 3rd most scored by a WI player during this period with his S/R being 14 and 16 runs higher the 2 guys above him.
His 49 wickets is easily the best with the next best being Sunil Narine with 18 wickets less than him at 31 who isn't even in the squad. After him its Rampaul with 27 who you guessed it is not there.

Well done clueless Clive.

He just recently the only West Indian player to feature in the Cricinfo One Day Tea of the Year.

 
Drapsey 2014-12-20 13:57:27 

In reply to johnjo

Good to see you again Jungo man.

I thought we had lost you permanently with $ammy's demise.

 
Commie 2014-12-20 13:57:33 

In reply to Drapsey

It would be better to have Kuk there. I know they want to phase out the usual suspects but burdening Holder might not be the way to do it.

Anyway, lets see how that works out.

 
tc1 2014-12-20 13:58:12 

In reply to jacksprat

do you think that the ring leaders will ever play for the WI again.

 
Drapsey 2014-12-20 13:59:54 

In reply to Commie

The man is big and strong ala the Big Pu$$y. Intrinsic qualities of a good leader.

Watch out world!

 
johnjo 2014-12-20 14:02:19 

In reply to Drapsey

No bro. Don't really watch much cricket cause the whole thing seem farcical.

A friend just sent me a riddle asking who is west Indies new odi captain so I thought I would log in here to find out.

 
openning 2014-12-20 14:03:28 

That's is a strange choice, has Jason taken any wickets or score any runs to be a first choice selection,?
This is similar to Sammy

 
sudden 2014-12-20 14:04:50 

In reply to Commie

They should have given it to CB. He is better and more expendable

 
Andy99 2014-12-20 14:05:34 

Holder = New Scammy?

 
jacksprat 2014-12-20 14:06:21 

In reply to tc1

do you think that the ring leaders will ever play for the WI again.

An interesting question.

However, Sammy is still T20 captain and Bravo, Pollards & Ramdin are still in the squad.

 
Commie 2014-12-20 14:06:27 

In reply to sudden

Have they announced a coach yet smile

 
johnjo 2014-12-20 14:09:06 

In reply to jacksprat

They try not to make things to obvious. The victimization would be glaring had they omitted these from the t20 team.

 
johnjo 2014-12-20 14:12:02 

Allyuh must be enjoying your cricket now with Sammy and hunte gone. Things must be nice now.

Anyway I'm outta here. Keep the faith fellas.

 
imusic 2014-12-20 14:15:07 

WICBC pulling an Australia (with Steve Smith)

We'll see how this pans out

 
jacksprat 2014-12-20 14:20:02 

In reply to johnjo

They could argue that one man's "victimization" is another "accountability"

In reply to imusic

WICBC pulling an Australia (with Steve Smith)

Or a South Africa with Graeme Smith

 
tc1 2014-12-20 14:29:19 

In reply to jacksprat

May ride the bench, then axed at the first failure

 
Halliwell 2014-12-20 14:31:55 

Can he set a field?
I get the young part, but not young fast bowler

The evolution of a bowler is a journey far away from captaincy, media and admin

 
smuggler 2014-12-20 14:35:37 

Jason is actually a good bowler who should be featuring in our ODI setup consistently. I've never seen him captain anything though.

 
smuggler 2014-12-20 14:58:04 

In reply to Andy99

BTW on what basis is Dwayne Bravo excluded from the ODI team ?Bravo is a better cricketer than three quarters of that squad. This is a big joke.

 
tc1 2014-12-20 15:00:31 

In reply to openning

Are you trying to suck up to the yardies and tits, holder is just as good as bravo,
Sammy is just as good as bravo.
You are one that knock Castro while praising Taylor go ahead start something that you will not be able to finish

 
sunfish 2014-12-20 15:07:35 

WICB has made a hidden statement with these omissions. Allyou priority is t20 therefore we will only pick you for t20 matches. Bravo and company made their bed and so will lie on it.

Looks like no World Cup for the trio and I will shed no tears. You can't cherry pick. West Indies first!

 
tc1 2014-12-20 15:13:17 

In reply to Halliwell

Can bravo , Randunce set a field

 
Ridge 2014-12-20 15:20:32 

That's the back lash Bravo getting for
abandoning ship.

 
Benjie 2014-12-20 15:27:20 

Reminds me of the Sammy appointment though worse. Holder doesn't have any captaincy experience at the first class level. Furthermore, he is a below average bowler who can bat a little bit.

They are trying to punish Bravo and Ramdin but you can't cut your nose to spite your face, at the end of the day the team suffers and Holder suffers. Besides they have already made Ramdin captain of the test team. Why not just let him captain the ODi team?

 
Benjie 2014-12-20 15:27:20 

Reminds me of the Sammy appointment though worse. Holder doesn't have any captaincy experience at the first class level. Furthermore, he is a below average bowler who can bat a little bit.

They are trying to punish Bravo and Ramdin but you can't cut your nose to spite your face, at the end of the day the team suffers and Holder suffers. Besides they have already made Ramdin captain of the test team. Why not just let him captain the ODi team?

 
Walco 2014-12-20 15:33:54 

Recriminations anyone? First it was Ravi, and now it's Bravo, Sammy and Pollard. Wonder what the two Ralphs have to say about this.

I am gradually coming around to Commie's thinking about Lloyd. He and the selection panel are serving as hatchet men for Cameron and the board. It's shameful really. I am not a fan of b-game Bravo, but the end does not justify the means in this case.

Oh ... one more thing. Where are all of the meritocracy peeps? Cat got wunnuh tongues?

 
Halliwell 2014-12-20 15:37:52 

In reply to tc1

Oh so that's alright then
Ramdin can't, so holder doesn't need the skill confused confused

 
rudebway 2014-12-20 15:58:28 

This is worse than Sammy....this can't be based on cricket reasons....

 
Walco 2014-12-20 16:07:20 

In reply to rudebway

This is worse than Sammy....this can't be based on cricket reasons....


And the silence on that point is deafening. What properly run cricket organization changes its ODI captain less than 2 months before the ODI world cup? As Chrissy says, big loud stewps!!

Early WC exit on the horizon.

 
TheTrail 2014-12-20 16:12:41 

In reply to Walco

Yuh see what uh mean...watch the knives and watch yuh back...the usual suspects are gunning for him.

The team still look strong,on paper.

 
Andy99 2014-12-20 16:13:37 

In reply to Walco

Early WC exit on the horizon.


And its such a shame.
Last world cup we were hampered by the selection of the new cappo Sammy and had 3 players making their ODI debuts at the World Cup and that is not including Devon Thomas who previously just had 2 ODI appearances in 09 when the strike was happened!
So for back to back years we are forking up ourselves at the biggest event that cricket has to offer.

 
Nemesis 2014-12-20 16:20:51 

Lawd gad but what a dis sah lol

 
JahJah 2014-12-20 16:21:40 

In reply to TheTrail

Defen yu bwoy happointment yes.

Tell us more about his captaincy pedigree.

 
sudden 2014-12-20 16:21:49 

In reply to Andy99

I seem to remember that Gayle and the other senior players almost got WI thru to the finals. if we only had another senior player in the mix WI might have won the WC

 
imusic 2014-12-20 16:22:33 

In reply to Walco

What properly run cricket organization changes its ODI captain less than 2 months away before the ODI world cup? As Chrissy says, big loud stewps!!


EOIN MORGAN NAMED ENGLAND ODI CAPTAIN

 
JahJah 2014-12-20 16:23:33 

In reply to imusic

His question remains. razz

 
jen 2014-12-20 17:15:30 

Jason Holder is a good player, would easily make my windies team but this indeed came as a shock. THe saddest part of this is that people will now hate on Jason Holder. Don't hate the man, hate who appoint him. Seeing man done saying Holder is below average bowler. You all don't know shit bout cricket if holder is a below average bowler. After 21 odi's, a bowling average of 28. Everyone else other than Taylor and Rampaul own will read higher than that.

 
sudden 2014-12-20 17:17:15 

In reply to jen

Why would you advocate hating those who appointed Jason?

 
TheTrail 2014-12-20 17:28:49 

In reply to JahJah

And you don’t?

Everybody on this MB except me does.


lol lol

 
jen 2014-12-20 17:30:37 

In reply to sudden

Aint advocating it, just saying if the disagreeing persons should be hating anyone, should be them, not Holder. Holder aint put a gun to them head to appoint him. Cause i done know people going automatically hate Holder for this.

Holder is a good player, windies just brainless not to be using him in the test team instead all them waywards people we playing cause them bowling faster.

 
Scar 2014-12-20 17:35:04 

In reply to jen

Hear, hear! The guy in OZ who is their allrounder pegging the crap back of India at 125/130ks with little inners and little awayers. Leff dem!

 
notout0 2014-12-20 18:00:36 

In reply to Walco

Q: What proper side changes their captain 2 months before a world cup?
A: England!

 
Baje 2014-12-20 18:09:59 

In reply to Commie


It is not like Barbados wanted Holder for Captain of ODI

 
Scar 2014-12-20 18:19:21 

In reply to Baje

Nor dud they wsnt him in their side a while back.
We should be glad WI looking beyond local selectors bias sometimes

 
doosra 2014-12-20 18:21:21 

England named their wc 15 today

when is the deadline?

 
Commie 2014-12-20 18:27:16 

In reply to Baje

Nothing to do with anything.

Politics affects everyone, including the unsuspecting.

 
Logic 2014-12-20 18:54:11 

In reply to sunfish Theory might make sense if Russell had been excluded from one day squad.

 
Walco 2014-12-20 18:54:28 

In reply to imusic

Read my first post on this thread together with the second post to which you responded and you will see where I'm coming from.

Don't know if England is a properly run cricket organization, but do you think the two situations are comparable on anything more than a superficial level? Do you think Bravo deserved to be dropped from the West Indies ODI team?

Didn't the two Ralphs and Cameron agree that there would be no recriminations?

 
Walco 2014-12-20 18:55:13 

In reply to notout0

See my response to musicman.

 
Walco 2014-12-20 19:01:46 

In reply to Logic

Theory might make sense if Russell and Gayle had been excluded from one day squad.


Fixed it for yuh smile

 
openning 2014-12-20 19:39:49 

In reply to tc1

Are you trying to suck up to the yardies and tits, holder is just as good as bravo,
Sammy is just as good as bravo.
You are one that knock Castro while praising Taylor go ahead start something that you will not be able to finish


Dude, my thinking is my own, I am a cricket fcuking fan, not an insular prick.
I havent seen Jason or Carlos among the top wicket takers or batting stats to captain any team

If you can show me where these guys were among the leaders in the BCA stats, in the last 2-3 years, I will come around and support their selection.
Until then, none of them should be captaining or part of any team.

 
sudden 2014-12-20 19:48:40 

In reply to openning

So who would be your pick for Cappo

 
hubert 2014-12-20 19:57:38 

Interesting lol

 
Stilbatn 2014-12-20 20:01:36 

In reply to Andy99

Yes he has Andy-what has common sense got to do with getting rid of Bravo as captain? He was not the right person for the job period

 
openning 2014-12-20 20:05:32 

In reply to sudden
Ramdin

 
sudden 2014-12-20 20:08:52 

In reply to openning

Ok

 
TheTrail 2014-12-20 20:10:02 

Oh shyte...this is about to get cricket ugly...BLP vs DLP...It go take a Woman's touch to solve this...come in Cherri and part these two Bimmers... lol lol

 
sudden 2014-12-20 20:12:09 

In reply to TheTrail

Who fighting? And weh dat short me crotch midget?

 
TheTrail 2014-12-20 20:17:30 

In reply to sudden

lol lol lol

Go check Sagicor parking lot... smile

 
cherri 2014-12-20 20:39:27 

In reply to TheTrail

That 'fight' gine fizzle out like Eno/Andrews........

On the appointment of Holder, I feel about this the way I felt when they pushed KB...I waiting to see how this gine pan out, cause certain fellas got the belief that he is a yes man, I hope the selectors/WICB boar-hogs ent using him to push their dotish agenda.....

 
Commie 2014-12-20 20:46:58 

In reply to cherri

Kraigg, Carlos, Jason. All eyes on Bim.

 
sudden 2014-12-20 20:53:37 

In reply to Commie

Two are cawmerians. If they are hoping for another Sir Frank Worrell big grin

 
tc1 2014-12-20 21:01:11 

In reply to Walco

What organization would allow the ring leader to continue as leader of the field operation.
Basic rule that ring leader would have seen the door 1day after it ocurr.

Thank gaud it's the WICB a wishy washy operation

 
tc1 2014-12-20 21:11:30 

In reply to openning

Do you have the same requirement for other regional players. Jason , and Carlos has performed reasonable with the A team for the past 2 years.

 
checkm8 2014-12-20 21:59:52 

Die roll

 
camos 2014-12-20 22:41:32 

don't matter who is captain, the ODI is the worst of the teams,sort a feel bad for that youth!

 
SuperG 2014-12-20 22:41:44 

Another strange move by de wicb rolleyes

 
openning 2014-12-20 23:35:56 

In reply to tc1

Do you have the same requirement for other regional players. Jason , and Carlos has performed reasonable with the A team for the past 2 years.


Way were you when I was condemning the selection of Sammy.
I believe players should be selected on merit, score runs over time and be selected.
The reason I am a fan of Kraigg Brathwaite is strictly on his performances, every year he among the rums

 
Commie 2014-12-20 23:44:25 

In reply to openning

WI has declined steadily whilst applying the same so called principles.

That has scarcely been the problem and neither has Sammy been.

 
Scar 2014-12-20 23:51:59 

In reply to Commie This method?

The recycling principles those that make runs in FC pick them. They fail in a few Tests drop them pick the runners up. They fail too drop them repick the former. If that fails repeat.

big grin big grin

 
spider 2014-12-20 23:53:58 

Hope this doesn't turn out badly, though chances are it will. I don't know if they should burden a man just struggling to make his way in the game with such a bad team. Wish him all the best.

 
openning 2014-12-21 00:02:09 

In reply to Commie

Can you name any player, in any sport that was selected to an International team, without having sucess thru their career?
Can you share with this board the number of performances Jason or Carlos had, to be captain or even to be selected, on any team.

 
Commie 2014-12-21 00:10:18 

In reply to openning

You seem to ignore the evidence that performers in our cricket have been routinely failing.

FYI Sammy was an outstanding A team performer and Holder and CB have excellent regional records. That they are in position for captaincy may be political but don't get on like they don't have good records.

Our regional record run scorer for some time was Keith Arthurton and our record wicket taker was Mahendra Nagamootoo.

If that doesn't explain the modern dilemma of picking WI teams, nothing will.

 
anandgb 2014-12-21 00:22:23 

In reply to Commie

Leaders are not necessarily people with a track record. If not given a chance, how will anyone know. Some are natural leaders and will only prove so when given a chance. I am willing to give teh youth a chance. Who knows what will pan out.

 
openning 2014-12-21 00:29:52 

In reply to Commie

If that doesn't explain the modern dilemma of picking WI teams, nothing will.


would it then be better, to continue with the Charles, Barath and other youngsters, who has perform at the regional level, and let them learn thru failure at the International level?
All we have been doing with youngsters, is chopping and changing.
As a bajan, I blame the BCA for the product, they continue to send to the regionals, these youngsters deserve better coaching and competition.

 
Commie 2014-12-21 00:30:10 

In reply to anandgb

Agreed.

 
openning 2014-12-21 00:34:19 

In reply to anandgb

Are you equating business leaders to a national sportsman?

BTW, a number of people who are leader, usual demonstrate some skills, during meeting, job performance, discussions with subordinates, understand the business and have experience in their discipline.
There are reasons why the West Indies is #8, you just don't role the dice and expect a youngster without a track record to help you going forward.

 
Commie 2014-12-21 00:40:51 

In reply to openning

No idea. The politics of boards putting pressure for players to be dropped or picked complicates things.

What I do know is that there is zero scouting in WI cricket.

There are guys playing club cricket both in the region and in the UK who are better than some of the guys we see.

Unless we widen the net I can't criticise these kinda dice rolls.

 
Pacy 2014-12-21 00:40:58 

In reply to anandgb


Some are natural leaders and will only prove so when given a chance. I am willing to give teh youth a chance. Who knows what will pan out.


Hope and wish.

If someone is a natural leader he would have got identified at the age group level or at the FC level. International cricket is not a place to test captaincy skils..

But this is WI cricket. General Statement is anyway we dont win, who cares who is dropped. Keep dropping average players hoping the next one will be better than average. Unfortunately that never happens.

 
anandgb 2014-12-21 00:45:00 

In reply to openning

BTW, a number of people who are leader, usual demonstrate some skills, during meeting, job performance, discussions with subordinates, understand the business and have experience in their discipline.

That is not necessarily true. Some people are naturally shy until they have responsibility handed to them

 
openning 2014-12-21 00:52:49 

In reply to anandgb

That is not necessarily true. Some people are naturally shy until they have responsibility handed to them


Do you think a person is put into a position for any company without showing or demonstration some knowledge of his discipline.
I understand they are people promoted by affiliations, hope though are not the ones, you are referring to

 
Andy99 2014-12-21 00:54:20 

In reply to Commie

Our regional record run scorer for some time was Keith Arthurton and our record wicket taker was Mahendra Nagamootoo.


That isn't all that surprising nor remarkable considering that our First class season was held from Feb-May (or thereabouts) and that was also the time for our home series the guys who went on to have long careers with WI wouldn't have had much time to play regional cricket.

 
Headley 2014-12-21 07:55:29 

In reply to Andy99

Since Bravo was made captain he score 691 runs at 31 with a S.R of 87 and took 49 wickets at 24 with an economy of 5.71.

His 691 runs were the 3rd most scored by a WI player during this period with his S/R being 14 and 16 runs higher the 2 guys above him.
His 49 wickets is easily the best with the next best being Sunil Narine with 18 wickets less than him at 31 who isn't even in the squad. After him its Rampaul with 27 who you guessed it is not there.

Well done clueless Clive.

He just recently the only West Indian player to feature in the Cricinfo One Day Tea of the Year.



Let me try to explain it to yuh since yuh pretending dat yuh dotish. Clue - it's not a performance issue.

The WICB throw out Bravo. What did yuh expect? Really! Yuh think having a lawyer issuing long winded self serving statements can guarantee yuh selection? Maybe the lawyer talk too much. Maybe when he pointed out that the players were not employees, it probably dawned on the daft WICB that there was no obligation to add to the income stream of these so called independent contractors.

In any case a fella name Newton did point out dat action and reaction are equal and opposite and act on different objects. (Most folks don't remember the important part in italics.)

 
sudden 2014-12-21 08:09:28 

In reply to anandgb

anand, is that you? i am proud of you. what a reasoned response! Southie seh to tell yuh that was well thought- out for an adjunct

 
Commie 2014-12-21 08:23:04 

In reply to Headley

And Bravo will still have an income stream.

 
che 2014-12-21 08:54:44 

CONGRATS Jason!!! Gwaan Big Yute!!!! lol lol lol

 
tc1 2014-12-21 11:29:42 

In reply to openning

Show me the performance of these captains or players in the west indies set up. IMO there are only 3 players than qualify to be in the west indies base on performance.

Holder regional performance is just as good as bravo.again WI cricket is in a crisis.
Go ahead , dig your ditch

 
Headley 2014-12-21 11:33:35 

In reply to Commie

And Bravo will still have an income stream.


Some would say a bloated stream, with a Chinese tributary, like the Caroni in spate, actually. Not even a hint of Restraint of Trade for a desperate lawyer to use as a peg for a lawsuit.