Why the obsession of trying to produce fast bowlers to match the other international teams...or in particular to trump Pakistan their next door neighbour.
India will never consistently produce any quality fast bowlers to match those consistently produced by beef eating Pakistan...not going to happen
INDIA....Play your three spinners...always...let one or two of your spinners specialize in using the new ball in test cricket...they are already doing so in T20
....and especially in this era where international batsmen are found wanting when they have to negotiate quality spinners on a helpful wicket...some international batsmen today can't negotiate any spinner on any wicket.
This experimentation with fast bowling has not worked for India...they should just close down the Dennis Lillee fast bowling school and concentrate on a spin factory to produce a never ending supply of quality spinners...it's the natural thing to do.
Message Board Archives
Spin has been India's strength..why not use it?
In reply to Narper
SA need to produce batsmen who can bat spin
They making WI look good
Saffies same like Windies,always seem to leave out their spinners,they now have none because they never try them,like the Caribbean,they give them on and off chances.Now they have a ready made Pakistani spinner,is time for them to start developing spinners like we doing in the Windies,still though we doh pick them,just now an then.Let's hope after Bishoo and Warrican gets put thru the mincer in Oz,they still have time fuh dem.
The thing is that the Indians themselves can hardly bat spin on the wickets they are making nowadays. They just happen to marginally better than their opponents though I'm not even sure about that and it is just that their spinners are better why they manage to prevail. When England went their with spinners that could match or better theirs India lost.
In reply to matchstick
They making WI look good big grin
Didn't the top tier oZZies suffer the same fate recently?
Cellar dwellers like WI are excused
WI had a different strategy to handle the spin in India...we packed up and head home
In reply to granite
Imran Tahir 12.5 1 41 1
SR Harmer 18 3 64 1
Imran Tahir 11.3 2 38 5
Saffies did play 2 spinners...who did well too
But Saffies do have very good fast bowlers...that is their strength
In reply to Narper
Pitches like these completely take a major aspect of cricket out of the game. The fast bowling.
Even in wickets that favor quick bowling, the spinners come into picture in most occasions, specifically during the second innings.
But in matches like these the Quicks are completely out of the game.
Bowling O M R W Econ 0s 4s 6s
I Sharma 2 1 4 0 2.00 11 1 0
R Ashwin 16.1 6 32 5 1.97 79 3 0
RA Jadeja 12 3 33 4 2.75 57 2 2
A Mishra 3 0 9 1 3.00 13 1 0
Just 2 overs in an innings. IN the second innings he has so far bowled 3.
Just kills one aspect of the game which adds more to the game.
In reply to Pacy
M Morkel 10 5 19 3
Morkel got 6 wickets in the match....good fast bowlers will get wickets on any track.
India would make less than 79 on this same pitch with an attack of Roberts, Marshal, Ambrose and Garner
Put Kanhai, Sobers, Kallicharran, LLoyd , Richards, in a team against that same Indian attack on that same pitch last night and the WI would be over 400 runs and still batting
BTW...why is LORDS never condemned in the same way...and the batsmen are glorified.....where millions of runs are scored there very year....is the Lords pitch killing bowlers period...is dat pitch taking away the whole BOWLING component of the game?
In reply to Narper
Never on that piece of garbage for a wicket.
In reply to Ridge
Then you must be a young bwoy who never saw our past greats play top class spin on helpful wickets
SA go win this test match
In reply to doosra
They will do good if they make 100
In reply to Narper
Morel had to bowl so much since they did not have good spinners. Also, did you see how Rabada was completely ineffective?
In reply to Pacy
Morkel had to bowl more? Where did you get that from? He bowled 26 overs all match
Rabada had 1 for 30 from 17 in first and 5 overs in 2nd
That's "completely ineffective " innit
In reply to Narper
Is spin really India's strength or their pitches are below test standard? What a complete farce! No wonder they cannot win away from home!
In reply to StumpCam
2 months ago their leading commies were screaming over the lack of quality in their spin attack
so yes...the same set of spinners who did not cause much trouble in SL recently are now world beaters
In reply to StumpCam
expect more brown bottoms (not green tops) as India play most of their next 18 months of test cricket at home
in fact Harbhajan may join to form a 4prong
no one is queuing up for India except for IPL
In reply to doosra
I find it hilarious that people don't recognize the difference between good spin bowling and a minefield of wicket!
In reply to doosra
Be careful.....
In reply to Narper
tell Ridge to do not get confuse with SA's history on the continent and WI's history on the continent.
From Everton Weekes with his world record consecutive centuries right down to Lara we have produced batsmen who excelled against four prong spin attacks on those dustbowls.
In reply to analyst-kid
richards, lara, lloyd, kanhai, kalli, sobers and greenidge were all very good players of spin. Lara was absolutely dominant.
In reply to doosra
2 months ago their leading commies were screaming over the lack of quality in their spin attack
so yes...the same set of spinners who did not cause much trouble in SL recently are now world beaters big grin
No where did I call these current spinners world beaters.
My thread points out India's bowling strength is spin...not pace....therefore they should play their spinners...and emphasize on spin
But it looks to me like it is an inferiority complex thing.....India believe they would not be respected if they don't have fast bowlers....not be 'masculine' enough if only spinners are offered
When last have India played 3 spinners in a test? In fact which of India's spinners are getting a long consistent run...Anil Kumble was the last one...today they are being rotated every series
India has been only focussing on spinning allrounders...if de spinner can't bat...no game for he
But fast bowlers like Ishant Sharma is fixture in the side
In reply to analyst-kid
In reply to Narper
tell Ridge to do not get confuse with SA's history on the continent and WI's history on the continent.
From Everton Weekes with his world record consecutive centuries right down to Lara we have produced batsmen who excelled against four prong spin attacks on those dustbowls.
We have to excuse dese young fellas who only start following cricket from the 90s
Ask dem about Deryck Underwood bowling in England on test pitches which were not covered to protect it from the elements during a test
In reply to Narper
They won't be respected if they don't win abroad. Hence the reason they started up the fast bowling academy. They wanted to produce fast bowlers that were capable of performing well in Oz, Pommieland, and South Africa where the effectiveness of their spinners were nullified. Up until recently their away record was pretty dismal.
In reply to SnoopDog
India must live with their poor away record
The same way Oz, England and RSA must live with their poor away record
There should be no shame in being absolutely dominant AT HOME.
India fast bowlers are not doing anything special for them away
When Kumble was a permanent in the India team...and Bhajji was being groomed...they both were doing pretty well in away games.
India have millions of natural veggie eating spinners...how much will it take to always have 4-5 world class spinners to chose from
In reply to Narper
Nothing wrong with preparing decks to suit spin, since India has 3 spinners.
There is an issue when the deck is so terrible that not even India can bat on it....
When India buss up OZ a couple years back, India was scoring big runs on tracks with some assistance to spinners, and OZ couldn't do the same, granted India probably has the best spinners.
Aren't India also the best players of spin? Why couldn't they score big runs? are Tahir and Harmer that good?
In reply to CricketLuva4
I have not once defended the pitch.
I have not even mentioned India must prepare tracks for spinners.
My thread is about India and her spinners
Why are so many of you trying to spin my thread de other way...like doosra
If this was a test...many of you are getting a failing grade
In reply to CricketLuva4
India won by 124 runs ...nuff said
In reply to CricketLuva4
No...not the current Milky Way
India's current batsmen are better players of the fast stuff than spinners
Not many current international batsmen can play spin well
In reply to Narper
Your point that India's strength is spin is true, and I agree that they should use it at home, what says you about 3 spinners overseas?
In reply to CricketLuva4
Won't be new for India
And why not....their fast bowlers are ineffective overseas anyways...so groom some top class spinners....even a rass 4 prong...and play them overseas
Remember Prasana, Chandrasekar, Venkat and Bedi....their mediun pacer Abid Ali would bowl a few overs...then it was spin prong....
BUT those days international batsmen could play spin well....and Indian batsmen were totally scared of the pace...so India tek plenty licks in those days
NOW...I believe things could be different for India
In reply to Narper
What's interesting is that India has never really had the fast bowling talent pool it has now ....
Yadav
B Kumar
Shami
Sharma
Aaron
In reply to doosra
Yeah...these fellas look like fast bowlers...usually they flatter to deceive....has anyone of these deliver an Anderson...or a Steyn...or a Johnson like performance?
and whenever India win a match it is always the spinner(s who deliver)
Guess what....in a year or two...I bet those fast bowlers you named will not be around and ...you will see another set...this has been the pattern in the last 5-10 years....yes...not much different from the current West Indies team
I am surprised Sharma has lasted this long...somebody high up in the BCCI really likes him
In reply to Narper
It is a surprise that one of the best teams in the world couldn't put up a better fight,spinning wicket or not.India and West Indies came to England and lost their series in almost Wintery conditions a few years ago,nobody here in England complained.
In reply to Narper
Shami and Kumar of recent have put in good performances overseas but of course India's overseas issues are well-documented and more than their fast bowling capacity or lack thereof
Ishant impressed on his first visit to Australia at a teenager and has put them in good positions occasionally.
Zaheer Khan was a consistently good performer
you cannot get good if you don't play and like spinners in the WI, fast bowlers in India do not get as many opportunities to develop
In reply to Narper
All me ah say is this, couple weeks ago in perth, no one said a word, fast forward couple weeks later everyone complaining in India. Let batsman feel some hard work too, cause all bowlers doing these days is toiling on all them damn graveyard especially in Australia. Australia have the flattest decks in world cricket for the last two years!!
Shastri agrees with me
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