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Spin has been India's strength..why not use it?

 
Narper 2015-11-26 12:41:44 

Why the obsession of trying to produce fast bowlers to match the other international teams...or in particular to trump Pakistan their next door neighbour.

India will never consistently produce any quality fast bowlers to match those consistently produced by beef eating Pakistan...not going to happen

INDIA....Play your three spinners...always...let one or two of your spinners specialize in using the new ball in test cricket...they are already doing so in T20

....and especially in this era where international batsmen are found wanting when they have to negotiate quality spinners on a helpful wicket...some international batsmen today can't negotiate any spinner on any wicket.

This experimentation with fast bowling has not worked for India...they should just close down the Dennis Lillee fast bowling school and concentrate on a spin factory to produce a never ending supply of quality spinners...it's the natural thing to do.

 
matchstick 2015-11-26 13:16:02 

In reply to Narper

SA need to produce batsmen who can bat spin cool

They making WI look good big grin

 
granite 2015-11-26 13:26:03 

Saffies same like Windies,always seem to leave out their spinners,they now have none because they never try them,like the Caribbean,they give them on and off chances.Now they have a ready made Pakistani spinner,is time for them to start developing spinners like we doing in the Windies,still though we doh pick them,just now an then.Let's hope after Bishoo and Warrican gets put thru the mincer in Oz,they still have time fuh dem.

 
spider 2015-11-26 13:43:04 

The thing is that the Indians themselves can hardly bat spin on the wickets they are making nowadays. They just happen to marginally better than their opponents though I'm not even sure about that and it is just that their spinners are better why they manage to prevail. When England went their with spinners that could match or better theirs India lost.

 
Narper 2015-11-26 14:19:32 

In reply to matchstick

SA need to produce batsmen who can bat spin cool

They making WI look good big grin


Didn't the top tier oZZies suffer the same fate recently?

Cellar dwellers like WI are excused wink
WI had a different strategy to handle the spin in India...we packed up and head home smile

 
Narper 2015-11-26 14:21:46 

In reply to granite

SR Harmer 27.2 2 78 4
Imran Tahir 12.5 1 41 1


SR Harmer 18 3 64 1
Imran Tahir 11.3 2 38 5


Saffies did play 2 spinners...who did well too

But Saffies do have very good fast bowlers...that is their strength

 
Pacy 2015-11-26 14:42:21 

In reply to Narper

Pitches like these completely take a major aspect of cricket out of the game. The fast bowling.

Even in wickets that favor quick bowling, the spinners come into picture in most occasions, specifically during the second innings.

But in matches like these the Quicks are completely out of the game.


Bowling O M R W Econ 0s 4s 6s
I Sharma 2 1 4 0 2.00 11 1 0
R Ashwin 16.1 6 32 5 1.97 79 3 0
RA Jadeja 12 3 33 4 2.75 57 2 2
A Mishra 3 0 9 1 3.00 13 1 0

Just 2 overs in an innings. IN the second innings he has so far bowled 3.

Just kills one aspect of the game which adds more to the game.

 
Narper 2015-11-26 15:22:47 

In reply to Pacy

M Morkel 16.1 7 35 3
M Morkel 10 5 19 3


Morkel got 6 wickets in the match....good fast bowlers will get wickets on any track.

India would make less than 79 on this same pitch with an attack of Roberts, Marshal, Ambrose and Garner wink

Put Kanhai, Sobers, Kallicharran, LLoyd , Richards, in a team against that same Indian attack on that same pitch last night and the WI would be over 400 runs and still battingwink

BTW...why is LORDS never condemned in the same way...and the batsmen are glorified.....where millions of runs are scored there very year....is the Lords pitch killing bowlers period...is dat pitch taking away the whole BOWLING component of the game?

 
Ridge 2015-11-26 15:31:55 

In reply to Narper

Put Kanhai, Sobers, Kallicharran, LLoyd , Richards, in a team against that same Indian attack on that same pitch last night and the WI would be over 400 runs and still battingwink


Never on that piece of garbage for a wicket.

 
Narper 2015-11-26 15:43:49 

In reply to Ridge

Then you must be a young bwoy who never saw our past greats play top class spin on helpful wickets

 
doosra 2015-11-26 15:50:53 

SA go win this test match

 
Ridge 2015-11-26 16:17:30 

In reply to doosra
They will do good if they make 100

 
Pacy 2015-11-27 04:49:44 

In reply to Narper

Morel had to bowl so much since they did not have good spinners. Also, did you see how Rabada was completely ineffective?

 
doosra 2015-11-27 05:11:05 

In reply to Pacy

Morkel had to bowl more? Where did you get that from? He bowled 26 overs all match

Rabada had 1 for 30 from 17 in first and 5 overs in 2nd
That's "completely ineffective " innit

 
StumpCam 2015-11-27 06:15:36 

In reply to Narper

Is spin really India's strength or their pitches are below test standard? What a complete farce! No wonder they cannot win away from home! twisted

 
doosra 2015-11-27 07:31:02 

In reply to StumpCam

2 months ago their leading commies were screaming over the lack of quality in their spin attack

so yes...the same set of spinners who did not cause much trouble in SL recently are now world beaters big grin

 
doosra 2015-11-27 07:31:41 

In reply to StumpCam

expect more brown bottoms (not green tops) as India play most of their next 18 months of test cricket at home

 
doosra 2015-11-27 07:32:44 

in fact Harbhajan may join to form a 4prong

no one is queuing up for India except for IPL big grin big grin

 
StumpCam 2015-11-27 08:46:58 

In reply to doosra

I find it hilarious that people don't recognize the difference between good spin bowling and a minefield of wicket!
lol lol

 
Kay 2015-11-27 09:12:25 

In reply to doosra

expect more brown bottoms

Be careful.....

 
analyst-kid 2015-11-27 11:04:43 

In reply to Narper

tell Ridge to do not get confuse with SA's history on the continent and WI's history on the continent.

From Everton Weekes with his world record consecutive centuries right down to Lara we have produced batsmen who excelled against four prong spin attacks on those dustbowls.

 
Bigzinc 2015-11-27 13:15:07 

In reply to analyst-kid

richards, lara, lloyd, kanhai, kalli, sobers and greenidge were all very good players of spin. Lara was absolutely dominant.

 
Narper 2015-11-27 14:21:16 

In reply to doosra


2 months ago their leading commies were screaming over the lack of quality in their spin attack

so yes...the same set of spinners who did not cause much trouble in SL recently are now world beaters big grin


No where did I call these current spinners world beaters.

My thread points out India's bowling strength is spin...not pace....therefore they should play their spinners...and emphasize on spin

But it looks to me like it is an inferiority complex thing.....India believe they would not be respected if they don't have fast bowlers....not be 'masculine' enough if only spinners are offeredwink

When last have India played 3 spinners in a test? In fact which of India's spinners are getting a long consistent run...Anil Kumble was the last one...today they are being rotated every series

India has been only focussing on spinning allrounders...if de spinner can't bat...no game for he

But fast bowlers like Ishant Sharma is fixture in the side

 
Narper 2015-11-27 14:26:09 

In reply to analyst-kid


In reply to Narper

tell Ridge to do not get confuse with SA's history on the continent and WI's history on the continent.

From Everton Weekes with his world record consecutive centuries right down to Lara we have produced batsmen who excelled against four prong spin attacks on those dustbowls.

We have to excuse dese young fellas who only start following cricket from the 90s razz

Ask dem about Deryck Underwood bowling in England on test pitches which were not covered to protect it from the elements during a test

 
SnoopDog 2015-11-27 14:29:30 

In reply to Narper

India believe they would not be respected if they don't have fast bowlers....


They won't be respected if they don't win abroad. Hence the reason they started up the fast bowling academy. They wanted to produce fast bowlers that were capable of performing well in Oz, Pommieland, and South Africa where the effectiveness of their spinners were nullified. Up until recently their away record was pretty dismal.

 
Narper 2015-11-27 14:35:01 

In reply to SnoopDog

India must live with their poor away record

The same way Oz, England and RSA must live with their poor away record

There should be no shame in being absolutely dominant AT HOME.

India fast bowlers are not doing anything special for them away

When Kumble was a permanent in the India team...and Bhajji was being groomed...they both were doing pretty well in away games.

India have millions of natural veggie eating spinners...how much will it take to always have 4-5 world class spinners to chose from

 
CricketLuva4 2015-11-27 15:51:12 

In reply to Narper

Nothing wrong with preparing decks to suit spin, since India has 3 spinners.

There is an issue when the deck is so terrible that not even India can bat on it....

When India buss up OZ a couple years back, India was scoring big runs on tracks with some assistance to spinners, and OZ couldn't do the same, granted India probably has the best spinners.

Aren't India also the best players of spin? Why couldn't they score big runs? are Tahir and Harmer that good?

 
Narper 2015-11-27 15:55:18 

In reply to CricketLuva4

I have not once defended the pitch.

I have not even mentioned India must prepare tracks for spinners.

My thread is about India and her spinners

Why are so many of you trying to spin my thread de other way...like doosra razz

If this was a test...many of you are getting a failing grade

 
Narper 2015-11-27 15:56:55 

In reply to CricketLuva4

Aren't India also the best players of spin? Why couldn't they score big runs? are Tahir and Harmer that good?


India won by 124 runs ...nuff said

 
Narper 2015-11-27 16:00:35 

In reply to CricketLuva4

Aren't India also the best players of spin?


No...not the current Milky Way

India's current batsmen are better players of the fast stuff than spinners

Not many current international batsmen can play spin well

 
CricketLuva4 2015-11-27 16:04:11 

In reply to Narper

Your point that India's strength is spin is true, and I agree that they should use it at home, what says you about 3 spinners overseas?

 
Narper 2015-11-27 16:07:09 

In reply to CricketLuva4

what says you about 3 spinners overseas?

Won't be new for India

And why not....their fast bowlers are ineffective overseas anyways...so groom some top class spinners....even a rass 4 prong...and play them overseas

Remember Prasana, Chandrasekar, Venkat and Bedi....their mediun pacer Abid Ali would bowl a few overs...then it was spin prong....

BUT those days international batsmen could play spin well....and Indian batsmen were totally scared of the pace...so India tek plenty licks in those days

NOW...I believe things could be different for India

 
doosra 2015-11-27 20:26:14 

In reply to Narper

What's interesting is that India has never really had the fast bowling talent pool it has now ....

Yadav
B Kumar
Shami
Sharma
Aaron

 
Narper 2015-11-27 20:49:32 

In reply to doosra

Yeah...these fellas look like fast bowlers...usually they flatter to deceive....has anyone of these deliver an Anderson...or a Steyn...or a Johnson like performance?

and whenever India win a match it is always the spinner(s who deliver)

Guess what....in a year or two...I bet those fast bowlers you named will not be around and ...you will see another set...this has been the pattern in the last 5-10 years....yes...not much different from the current West Indies team

I am surprised Sharma has lasted this long...somebody high up in the BCCI really likes him

 
granite 2015-11-29 14:41:48 

In reply to Narper


It is a surprise that one of the best teams in the world couldn't put up a better fight,spinning wicket or not.India and West Indies came to England and lost their series in almost Wintery conditions a few years ago,nobody here in England complained. cool

 
doosra 2015-11-29 14:47:14 

In reply to Narper

Shami and Kumar of recent have put in good performances overseas but of course India's overseas issues are well-documented and more than their fast bowling capacity or lack thereof

Ishant impressed on his first visit to Australia at a teenager and has put them in good positions occasionally.

Zaheer Khan was a consistently good performer

you cannot get good if you don't play and like spinners in the WI, fast bowlers in India do not get as many opportunities to develop

 
jen 2015-11-29 18:00:23 

In reply to Narper

All me ah say is this, couple weeks ago in perth, no one said a word, fast forward couple weeks later everyone complaining in India. Let batsman feel some hard work too, cause all bowlers doing these days is toiling on all them damn graveyard especially in Australia. Australia have the flattest decks in world cricket for the last two years!!

 
Narper 2015-12-01 12:26:12 

"And when you saw Hashim [Amla] and Faf [du Plessis] batting yesterday, you thought there was nothing in the pitch. It just goes to show there was an era earlier who would play on these pitches and people would get hundreds. Because they were prepared to go through the grind."

Shastri agrees with me