When the discussion about payments came about and 'redistribution of funds to more players' was being debated the star players said that they liked the idea but they don't feel that they should bare the brunt of the cuts.
They suggested that if the WICB is doing its job right they will find alternative sources of funds to make their plan work without cutting their pays that much.
WICB did that job with the CPL!!
This last dispute was over about $110,000 for a 1 month tournament which happens every two years.
In today's CPL draft here is how much each player from the WI Squad went away with.
Darren Sammy - $110,000
Samuel Badree - $110,000
Sulieman Benn - $40,000
Darren Bravo - WICB Contract
Dwayne Bravo - $160,000
Andre Fletcher - $$60,000
Chris Gayle - $160,000
Jason Holder - WICB Contract
Sunil Narine - $110,000
Kieron Pollard - $110,000
Denesh Ramdin - WICB Contract
Andre Russell - $90,000
Marlon Samuels - WICB Contract
Lendl Simmons - $160,000
Jerome Taylor - WICB Contract
Multiply that # by 2 for the WC happening every two year.
In addition to this the WICB is deliberately leaving the IPL window open for all players to go make money there.
So the players are making, from these two avenues, either the same or more money than they did previous to all these items being put in place.
On top of that the WICB is being able to execute it's broader strategy PLUS a good number of 'non star players' are making supplemental income in the CPL.
Doesn't it appear very selfish that these men advertising an 80% cut when you look at things this way?
Message Board Archives
WI Players are Selfish
In reply to matchstick
No
In reply to matchstick
Well matchy you are asking us to close one eye and open the other. They go out there to do a job and should be paid on a per job basis.
In reply to nick2020
Nah, missing the point really.
Asking you to open your eyes and see the bigger picture.
In reply to matchstick
Wail only that Polly getting?
Or is Keiran Powell yuh talking about
In reply to matchstick
the contract working against some players?
In reply to matchstick
truth tho is u cyah tek "i am x y z and i play for the wi" to the mall
dem nuh cash dat
In reply to matchstick
so some guys are playing the CPL for free, how is this the case when that tournament is owned by an entity other than WICB?
In reply to camos
not free
theyll be paid on a per match basis by that francise
weh newdread fih clear up this
In reply to doosra
So far no strong argument against what I posted.
Waiting patiently.
In reply to matchstick
I get it.
They opened more avenues.
But you are still telling them to take less money for the hours worked; they just working more hours.
In reply to matchstick
Are you implying that they should play the World cup because they making the money elsewhere?
In reply to gvenkat
The world cup is a showcase for those without contracts elsewhere but most do already
In reply to doosra
I get that, I'm waiting for matchie to answer my question. I don't think it's fair to ask these guys to play just because they have contracts with WICB or elsewhere. 
In reply to gvenkat
Not 'elsewhere'
WICB is taking away money from the WC (and other international assignments) but have replaced that with alternative revenue options to more than offset that loss.
If the WICB sat on their asses and did not make CPL happen and wanted to take away WC money plus denied players NOC for the IPL in place of playing for WI or regional cricket then that would be 'unfair.'
In reply to matchstick
Yuh see what happens when you try to make sense out of nonsense?
In reply to matchstick
If the WICB sat on their asses and did not make CPL happen and wanted to take away WC money plus denied players NOC for the IPL in place of playing for WI or regional cricket then that would be 'unfair.'
So you saying 1) less money for world cup - playing same amount of matches like previous world cup,
2) paid to play in cpl, to make up for WC pay, but more matches added.
ah cornfuse - so leh me try harder
so - by your logic -2014 WC - salary $X paid, 6 matches played.
2014 WC salary $X-80% , 6 matches played, CPL - salary ($X-80% + 80%=X) 6 cpl matches played
Summary 2014 WC - $X paid for 6 matches, 2016 WC - $X paid for 12 matches. who lose.
In reply to matchstick
Yes Matchie so glad that a young man like you see can see this and some old " ones" cannot 
In reply to matchstick
Yes you see it now --no complaints from anyone of them
Why? because WICB "stamp" is not there
In reply to matchstick
Fair enough. What if a player gets injured playing the world cup and can't play for 4 months or so. How does the compensation work in that case. This will be a blow for some body who don't have a contract.
Therr are two issues here. Wicb should have negotiated with players directly aND accounted for what you have said. Wipa should have been disengaged.
what about the international players? Same logic for them?
In reply to gvenkat
So basically u are trying to convince us of a special circumstance where a player get the 80% pay cut at the WC and get injured and can't go to IPL or CPL 2 years in a row?
In reply to matchstick
It's a possibility albeit unlikely one.. the one thing I would blame the players is they knew all this in may 2015. Why raise a stink now.
In reply to jacksparrow
what about the international players?
You are asking about the international players being drafted in the CPL???
In reply to number09 & nick2020
You do realise outside of the contracted fees there are match fees paid per match too right?
In reply to matchstick
I just want you to know you doing a great job of mekking me think ole school thinking...I actually believe what you are saying here... 
yes just curious what their financial arrangements are with their respective Boards as compared to the West Indies. Just struck me that West Indies are the only team that seem to always have pay issues with their Board.
In reply to jacksparrow
You can only spend money that you have, right?
In reply to matchstick
In addition they are getting sponsorship fees per game and 80% of the winning. This should be incentive for them to do their best to win every game.
In reply to jacksparrow
OK good point.
On the WICB website there are links to the financial statements for the past years.
Check out how much surplus you are seeing there.
Then do the same for those other boards and see how that stacks up.
You cannot commit to pay your employees more that your business will allow to pay them.
Also at don't stop at the international players. Check how much those same boards pay their first class players as opposed to how much we paid ours before the regional contracts which were recently implemted.
In reply to anandgb
Yes, I did not include that though because it seems like that stays mostly the same from past tours.
Sammy's main concern was the ~$110,000 difference.
In reply to WestDem
Look it is not an ideal situation but overall it is a way better situation for everyone as opposed to pre CPL.
In reply to matchstick
I will give this to to you. You making some good points here. Perhaps you should write to Sammy
In reply to gvenkat
They know this...
That's why the contracts will be signed by the 14th.
Just that Ramnarine must have told them that, based on history, if they push their luck they might get WICB to waver in their thinking.
Hence y my thread is titled Selfish.
In reply to matchstick
Sammy is asking for teh per match fee to be doubled, which I think is currently $6,690 or so.
In reply to matchstick
On the WICB website there are links to the financial statements for the past years.
Check out how much surplus you are seeing there.
Then do the same for those other boards and see how that stacks up.
You cannot commit to pay your employees more that your business will allow to pay them.
Also at don't stop at the international players. Check how much those same boards pay their first class players as opposed to how much we paid ours before the regional contracts which were recently implemted.
This should have been your lead post, instead of that convoluted explanation.
I suspected WICB was financial challenges
Sammy is the easily the most dispensable player among the lot in the setup, yet he running up he mouth and representing
Funny as _________________
“Kindly note that the terms on offer were negotiated and agreed between WICB and WIPA with the assistance of representatives from the ICC and FICA (International Cricketers Association) during a mediation process last year, and all parties agreed that they were fair and equitable and acceptable to be offered to the members WI team selected for the relevant ICC event.”
Wavell Hinds challenges T20 skipper to justify claims against WIPA
Link Text
In reply to XDFIX
“As a result, there was comprehensive review of MOU [memorandum of understanding] and CBA [collective bargaining agreement] which included the remuneration package for all professional cricket in the West Indies in May 2015,” said the WIPA CEO.
He said five players — Marlon Samuels, Denesh Ramdin, Jerome Taylor, Darren Bravo, and Jason Holder — who Sammy “claims to be representing in the current T20 squad were at the WICB retreat in Barbados in May 2015”.
“The payment package was explained in full to players and they were given the chance to give their opinion. Also present there were some franchise captains at the time, including Tamar Lambert and Liam Sebastien.
This is very telling, didn't these guys share this info? Why are they only now making noise?
In reply to matchstick
I had this thought a few months ago. While it sounds reasonable in layman discussion, it is actually illogical in the real world. A board, an agent, a player representative and a CEO putting forward this argument are actually dramatically underlining their incompetence.
First of all there are very few examples in the modern sports world where stars are paid in relatively close amounts to par players. In the NFL a good quarterback accounts for a disproportionate amount of the team's pay out to players. There is no event where you are going to pay Lebron close to the same amount as Rondo.
Outside of sports the compensation packages are even more brutish to those that are not well renowned. There fees can be so low sometimes performance is done more for exposure more so than for the fee. Retainer fees of significant percentages have to be paid up front to even popular regional artists like Macheal and Berris. In some cases the balance have to be fully paid before the performance. Superstars like Beyonce etc; live in a different stratosphere than regular artist and have to be dealt with in that way from the beginning.
If management is attempting to do this especially after establishing a pay pattern that follow normal industry procedures, they must ensure the following take place;
1. They must identify their stars and meet individually an collectively with them.
2. They must clearly define the terms of payment and compensation going forward.
3. They must state the reasons why they have decided to take these steps.
4. They must address the concerns and questions of the players.
5. If an agreement is reached they should then have a press conference with the players as part of that group announcing it to the media and public.
This is a poor management group that is failing to learn on the job.
In reply to matchstick
Young man you are bang on--watch they will all sign on
You cannot fool all the people
In reply to gvenkat
Good point raised--The West Indies team just made a tour to Australia, right- no problems with contract signing and other matters,as soon as this "money grabbing group " care not to name them(names) come on the team boom boomboom boom--check it out fans 
In reply to WestDem
WestDem the young man is right on-believe him,we need more like him to speak up,tell it as it is
Good work Matchie
In reply to anandgb
Makes one wonder? That selfish tag may not be so far fetched after all.
In reply to methodic
Two key problem with the example with what your are giving.
1) The point about pay range for a QB and a line man for example is not what this discussion is about. The equivalent of that in cricket would be for example, how much a fast bowler make as opposed to wicket keeper. Obviously that is not Sammy's contention.
2) You cannot compare a Franchise League business structure to the country representation system like the WICB, ECB, CA, BCCI etc. In a franchise system if a team decides that their business cannot afford to pay a player what he is asking, the player simply goes to the next team. The player don't have that luxury to do that in international cricket. It is the full responsibility of the boards to pay ALL (first class and international ) of it's players within it's financial capabilities.
Just to indulge you in your NFL example, consider the following.... How much does a QB in the NFL get paid as opposed to a QB in the Canadian Football League? Or how much does Chris Gayle get paid in the IPL as opposed to the Pakistan Super League? The difference there is simply as a result of the cash flow in those leagues, which is equivalent to the cash flow in the respective boards.
In reply to matchstick
In reply to Runs Daiz what I'm thinking. There has to be $$$ left in the tilly for `other`....
In reply to matchstick
In reply to natty_forever
The CPL, in which a West Indian player is playing in a West Indies sanctioned tournament, exists without the WICB?
In reply to natty_forever
How? Explain
In reply to matchstick... yeah, but are they paying salaries? The English FA sanctions the BPL ... get ma drift. As I said you are simplifying the thing to prove a point. Sorry, the WICB is negotiating with the players on this contract, I am sure it does not include or mention returns from the CPL.
In reply to gvenkat... financial support. This is to be kept in the context of less pay, due to the WICB offering "windows" to go earn. kmt.
In reply to natty_forever
Dude if WICB does not support CPL, There is no CPL.. You do realise that right?
In reply to gvenkat... I know that just like how there would be no BPL if the English FA didn't sanction it, but I bet the EFA does not pay them less on the premise that they play in the BPL.
In reply to natty_forever
I don't really.
The premise of what I am proposing is that the players are selfish in that it is as a direct result of the WICB they are making more money overall. (Pre CPL and Regional Contracts vs Current)
Until you can prove that the players are NOT making more money overall with some numbers, I simply can't get your drift.
In reply to matchstick
He is talking a whole load of tata. He is not debating the lead post.
In reply to matchstick... again, does India pay their players less because of the IPL?
In reply to natty_forever
India does not. But India has lot of money. WICB does not. That's the crux of the issue here.
In reply to gvenkat... so because you don't have money, I am selfish?
In reply to natty_forever
So I don't break my fingers typing the same thing over and over....
Start here...
and continue here
Just to indulge you in your NFL example, consider the following.... How much does a QB in the NFL get paid as opposed to a QB in the Canadian Football League? Or how much does Chris Gayle get paid in the IPL as opposed to the Pakistan Super League? The difference there is simply as a result of the cash flow in those leagues, which is equivalent to the cash flow in the respective boards.
In reply to matchstick... I think you need to be clear on what premise you arguing from. seems you all over the place like Tino Best.
In reply to matchstick
No. So the players should be penalized because they make money from other avenues? WICB does not own CPL, so I don't get why even mention what they make there. WICB should not be concerned by how much money these players make in the various leagues around the world, that should have nothing to do with paying them to play for Windies.
Let me ask you this...Would your argument be the same if a majority of the players weren't "t20 mercenaries"?
In reply to natty_forever
I am very clear sir...
Either you present facts to counter my arguments or you can stick to regular message board banter, i am cool with that too.
Ill throw in a few to make you feel more comfortable.
In reply to anadayardi
Is there any CPL operating in the West Indies under the WICB without the WICB?
In reply to matchstick... ok, in summary, I do not agree that they are selfish in asking for appropriate compensation.
My issue is why this keeps happening, just before a tour?
In reply to matchstick
Think about how many years these so called stars were applying their trade across the globe before the CPL came about..WICB saw the CPL as an opportunity to earn. Without the backing of our T20 stars and sponsors there would be no CPL. Think about what the WICB could "sell" to the sponsors to back the tournament..these same stars.
Remember WICB was operating the previous version of the domestic t20 tournament at a loss. Which is why they went the way of sponsors. Yes, these players now earn more money from the CPL but WICB benefits from it as well. So to make it seem that the WICB did this for the benefit of these stars is not right. I believe the WICB earn approx $4m from the CPL.
In reply to matchstick
this is a good counter but, but what do you have to say about this:
If management is attempting to do this especially after establishing a pay pattern that follow normal industry procedures, they must ensure the following take place;
2. They must clearly define the terms of payment and compensation going forward.
3. They must state the reasons why they have decided to take these steps.
4. They must address the concerns and questions of the players.
5. If an agreement is reached they should then have a press conference with the players as part of that group announcing it to the media and public.
In reply to natty_forever
Okay you are free to disagree based on emotion. I can't stop you there. If you present facts to counter my argument then we can continue here.
That is also a good question. Start a different thread and we can discuss.
In reply to anadayardi
Please point specifically where I stated that the CPL is ONLY benefiting the stars and WICB is not getting any benefit from it.
In reply to methodic
Good. I wanted to make sure you follow the first part before I addressed the other points.
Sure. I don't disagree with that. There needs to be improved communication from both ends and a bit more compromise. See my post here
3. They must state the reasons why they have decided to take these steps.
4. They must address the concerns and questions of the players.
All of these seem to be touched on and there are various media reports of this being done.
For the longest while, when WIPA was winning all these law suits against the WICB, all players were happy with WIPA and no one asked for separate representation. The WIPA then became the means by which this is done. This was actually done. See here
The players are now saying that they want to be represented differently... See my post here
Interesting post matchstick. I think you summed it up properly.I am almost certain too that they will all sign on the 14th.
People got to realise that these players are not acting unilaterally on their own behalf. They are represented by personal agents and what are those agents jobs really if they cannot tell them that they deserve more money and they should put up a fight? The agents themselves benefit when the players earn more....
In reply to matchstick.. Yes, because them feel Blinds not representing their best interest AT THIS POINT IN TIME!
In reply to matchstick
I think we could agree that if the board met with the stars that would have gone a long way to making the situation clearer.
In reply to Kay
Ur the man!!
During the India situation I made a post that as much as Bravo was getting the blame, now in this case Sammy, it is ultimately the agents who are forcing these guys to seek more money from the WICB.
Here is the next step. By the players suggesting that the WIPA is not allowed to negotiate for them, who then will negotiate? THE AGENTS!!!
Again you gotta call the players Selfish for not recognizing that (Or at least allowing) the agents are trying to bleed money from the WICB.
Selfish
adjective
(of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for other people; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.
In reply to matchstick
Very good theead. Do you see why there is not much reponse here from the so called intelligent and experienced people on this board..
In reply to matchstick
You're right, you didn't state that the CPL is only benefiting the stars BUT the CPL didn't come about as a supplement to the players income, as some sort of plan by the WICB. The CPL was a solution for the financial failure of the previous domestic t/2o tournament. As such it should have no bearing on what players get paid to play for the West Indies. It almost sounds like you're saying they make enough money already (by playing various t/20 tournaments) and should just accept the pay cut
In reply to anadayardi
Good. I straightened you out on one claim already.
Then you go making another claim.
Again, I did not say anything of the sort.
Simply twisting what I am saying to sound like something you would like to hear does not constitute a substantial argument against the points I am raising.
In reply to matchstick
[/b]
Darren Sammy - $110,000
Samuel Badree - $110,000
Sulieman Benn - $40,000
Darren Bravo - WICB Contract
Dwayne Bravo - $160,000
Andre Fletcher - $$60,000
Chris Gayle - $160,000
Jason Holder - WICB Contract
Sunil Narine - $110,000
Kieron Pollard - $110,000
Denesh Ramdin - WICB Contract
Andre Russell - $90,000
Marlon Samuels - WICB Contract
Lendl Simmons - $160,000
Jerome Taylor - WICB Contract
Multiply that # by 2 for the WC happening every two year.
In addition to this the WICB is deliberately leaving the IPL window open for all players to go make money there.
So the players are making, from these two avenues, either the same or more money than they did previous to all these items being put in place.
On top of that the WICB is being able to execute it's broader strategy PLUS a good number of 'non star players' are making supplemental income in the CPL.
Doesn't it appear very selfish that these men advertising an 80% cut when you look at things this way?
Then what was your point in mentioning what players make in the CPL? Why are these players selfish? When I look at what things which way? Answer those questions. Im asking because apparently I'm assuming a lot of things, So just clarify your words for me. Thanks.
In reply to anadayardi
Without the WICB inattentive IPL and CPL would not be open to the star players along with WI international cricket.
What's your confusion in understanding that?
I'll wait for someone else to agree with your line of questions to reply back to u btw. Don't make sense for me to keep saying the same things in many different ways to get to your level of understanding.
Cheers!
In reply to gvenkat
I was hoping for more of a fight.
In reply to matchstick
My level of understanding.. ? So because you can't explain your point you're trying to insult me? I don't argue with people on internet boards, that's for 16 year old girls. Just trying to undertand your point.
I just want some clarity..Let me help you and this will be over. "The players are selfish because (insert your argument and your argument must not be any of the "assumptions" I was making from your initial post)"
Many of these players could retire from international cricket tomorrow and still be in demand in t20 leagues all over; most of the so called starts don't have WICB contract.
By selfish? Do you mean that the players are looking out for their own interests?
In reply to anadayardi
Here are the many ways I explained it in this thread...
1)
2)
WICB is taking away money from the WC (and other international assignments) but have replaced that with alternative revenue options to more than offset that loss.
If the WICB sat on their asses and did not make CPL happen and wanted to take away WC money plus denied players NOC for the IPL in place of playing for WI or regional cricket then that would be 'unfair.'
3)
Check out how much surplus you are seeing there.
Then do the same for those other boards and see how that stacks up.
You cannot commit to pay your employees more that your business will allow to pay them.
Also at don't stop at the international players. Check how much those same boards pay their first class players as opposed to how much we paid ours before the regional contracts which were recently implemted.
4)
Just to indulge you in your NFL example, consider the following.... How much does a QB in the NFL get paid as opposed to a QB in the Canadian Football League? Or how much does Chris Gayle get paid in the IPL as opposed to the Pakistan Super League? The difference there is simply as a result of the cash flow in those leagues, which is equivalent to the cash flow in the respective boards.
5)
if you cannot understand still then I can't help u. Or seems like u are playing dumb to avoid a factual debate.
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