Message Board Archives

As ridiculous as it sounded, news came last week by way of a badly written news release issued by the West Indies Cricket Board (WICB) —something that has become common in the last seven months — that legendary retired fast bowler Curtly Ambrose had been sacked as bowling consultant to the West Indies team.

Sprinting alongside that news release was the revelation that a training squad had been named to prepare for international assignments starting with India next month, and Pakistan later on.

The news release regarding Ambrose was as vague as the North Korean Government giving general directions to its nuclear stockpile. It did not say why the great man was being pushed aside and left one to wonder if something had gone amiss with Ambrose, or if he was heading out to more colourful pastures.

It seemed odd though, although nothing coming from the bowels of the WICB should serve as a shocker, that Ambrose was being replaced by one Roddy Estwick, a former Barbados fast bowler who, based upon his harvest of wickets, knew little about the art of fast bowling, and who, as a coach with the Barbados Under 19, West Indies Under 19, and Barbados, was like a man lost at sea.

 

Jamaica Observer has the full article

Full Story

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

This article is badly written: in that it compounds many assertions without any perspective and it is not historically or factually correct on many levels. The writer Helps needs help

The premise that to b a good coach you had to be a player of some sorts is wrong and cabnot ve the sole basis for criticism. Alex Fetguson.....marinho...wenger.....comto mind.

What boyhers me is that Simmons may have conceded hos independence to thr hand that feeds him. I agree annd again shown...our icons r treated like dog. I hope all young players take note....and concentrate on their future well being

In reply to johndom90

I agree with your argument if you are talking about a “team coach” – as opposed to a specialist coach……..i don’t think you would find baseball hiring a pitcher as a batting coach – or cricket hire Viv Richards as a bowling coach - if it happened – it would be an anomaly – unless its someone like Sobers, who was every bit a bowler…. courtly was not a “coach” he was a “specialist” bowling consultant

In reply to birdseye

The author alluded that simmons....logie....otis..estwick lacked as players....thus questioning their current coaching ability.

Ambi and all the other icons ahould be given due respect.....at least on paper if nothing else. Experience cannot be bought or created, especially ad had by Ambi, walsh..etc...theses guys must/should slways be made welcome and feel comfortsble to contribute ad needed.

Instead.....u know what we have

In reply to johndom90

I have been saying that for a long time.

In reply to black

Is the corollary then – you were a good player – then therefore you cannot be a good coach………
We keep repeating these slogans as if they are empirical truisms to defend management types when they fu$k-up and we want to support their fuckeries …..each case has to be assessed on its merit…….No?

In reply to birdseye

Nuff said!!

Coach Simmonds has the right to his own coaching staff, he must be more comfortable working with Estwick, from the results of the time Ambrose was there, it seems like he did not make an impact on the bowlers, in fact the bowling performance of the team got worse.

In reply to dayne

i am sure you have some documentation to sustain such claim

In reply to black
Why then are former players made selectors?

In reply to birdseye

Can you tell us, how a coach can help players with deficiencies during a tour.

In reply to openning

Well I cant – but I am sure just as how golfers travels with a “swing coach” that can help a golfer make adjustments to their swing – the same is possible with a cricketer……but if they are gravely flawed – well – only God can intercede

In reply to openning
Exactly but very few here know anything about the nuances of the game. They simply have access to a computer.

I am sorry, but the only place we does indulge in this sort of blind loyalty is in the west indies........show me where else but the west indies he could apply for a coaching job and where it asks for certification/qualificaqtion he put....Icon.........only bout hey, if you were a boss player in your time, when yuh days done, go and get certification, you could move the earth with certification faster than COW........the experience from playing the game and the certification will work wonders for him, these fellas does get comfortable in a position, doan do nutten to improve themselves and then when people looking for someone with the certification dem and dey peeps got issues.......

In reply to birdseye

Dude golfer works on their game away from tournaments, these guys works for hours daily.
You guys are used to cramming for an exam, and do not remember shoite a few days later, thats why allyuh dont get the nuances of practice and repetition.

In reply to cherri

Girl I hear dat Simmons was forced to ax Ambi or face a player (bowlers) revolt. Dem fellas apparent felt like he was not being sufficiently helpful in the preparation, strategic and technical phases. In other words, Ambi lost the confidence of the players. I think I heard that one before. Wuh u hearin?

In reply to Walco

Basically the same thing.........people on here does talk bout Sammy being de clapper......apparently the Icon was the clapper/talker/remonstrator and all dem things, and some people were beginning to wonder....a wordsmith went so far as to say all he does is expostulate........you think these people easy, when dem out tuh dun yuh, dem does make noise in the right direction.......

AMBIE was seen siding with Sammy at the post match interview. He is just another fall off from the post match affair

In reply to Wasp

Do you know if Ambrose made any recommendation or reports after each series, whats needed for each fast-bowler?
All I hear in speak about is motivation, is that going to correct each fast-bowler deficiency?

I assume Otis Gibson was a certified bowling coach who was highly credited with improving the England bowling attack, yet was unsuccessful in improving West Indies bowlers during his tenure. I agree that certification is important in some cases, but I do not believe bowlers at this level should require coaching on the mechanics of bowling, which is what's being implied when the reason for dismissing Ambi is that they require someone more technical.
Seems to me that a lot of our pace bowlers have faults which should be corrected in the early stages of their career, and that's where the technical coaches are needed. I would much rather have a coach who has been there, can assess the conditions and advise the bowlers on how to attack the opponent based on prevailing situation be the coach. I believe dismissing Ambrose was the wrong decision, because I saw improvement during his tenure.

In reply to cherri

If Ambrose did not meet the requirements, why was he hired and who hired him?

In reply to vereman


Please......he was hired as a consultant, not as a COACH.....some uh wunna alright?.............AMBROSE WAS NEVER A COACH, HE WAS A BOWLING CONSULTGANT, THAT WAS HIS SUBSTANTIVE POST IN THE SET-UP.............wunna and these icons/legends, wunna getting on like being a legend/icon is a passport tuh anything cricket, if you know you want the people wuk and you know what will qualify you to get de wuk, go and get the qualification..........doan assume that that is your passport.......and you know a big problem wid these legends/icons, dem does get on wid people like everybody able to do what they used to do, they doan go in and try to make a difference, they does go and ask shite questions and try to remind people who they were........when yuh gine fuh a job and de requirements set out before you, do the right thing or forget the people wuk..........he had a long enough stint that he could have done a certification course and apply fuh de wuk....you think if he had what was required that somebody would replace he just so, he would have grounds to mek noise......he himself admitted that he has a level 2 certificate and nobody ent know....but level two ent getting yuh nuh job in nobody team,......

Walsh, Robert Samuels, WInston Benjamin and nuff more was at the latest course they had in Barbados, dem fellas know wuh dem looking fuh and dem preparing themselves, tell the big legend to do the same......please.........nobody end dead and leff no coaching job fuh he.

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

Wow!!! This is damning. Was he that bad?

In reply to Kay

If the writer had done his home work, he would have known that Roddy has, Kraigg and Shane Dowrich on the test team, Carlos Brathwaite on the T20 squad and Shamar Springer on the U-19 team, these guys are all products of Roddy.
Who has Ambrose coached since retiring?

In reply to openning

I have personally gone to a US open Golf tournament and watch Chris Como, Tiger Woods swing coach working with Woods on his swing prior to the day’s Tee-off……they went thru several buckets of balls in the process……

In reply to openning

And those players bowling accomplishments are……… ?

In reply to birdseye
He worked with these guys up to the U-19 level, he has a program, which he stated to work with Jason, Carlos and Kemar.
He spoke about this on a local show prior to the WC.
Roddy was producing players to the BCA for many years, this year he is part of the BCA coaching team.
Carlos spoke about the work he will be doing with him, prior to going off to the IPL.
I wish the guys from Midwicket would post Roddy's comments on the work needed to get the fast bowlers ready.

In reply to birdseye

Roddy hand off these players to the BCA, who then hand them off to the WICB.
There is a break down between his coaching and the senior level coaching.
I stated earlier this year that he should be the BCA head coach, he has films on all his players, thats what modern coaches do
BTW, in order for Ambrose to work with fast-bowlers, he would have to develop a program for each player, from what the films shows him.
This cannot be done, during a series.

In reply to openning

I stand advised, but a bit skeptical at how such genius as Roddy Estwick, could have been hidden in plain sight for so long…….but then this is the WICB we are dealing with –
there is an old Proverb that says - the proof of the pudding is in the eating
You can only say something is a success after it has been tried out or used…….

I am not quite as optimistic as you are – so I will stay tuned…….

In reply to birdseye

Roddy worked at the Combermere School in the capacity of cricket master, I am not sure he would have given up his job for the uncertainties of a tour by tour contract with the WICB, he has now been offered a job as bowling coach, maybe after a few stints around the cricket he feels that he can move on to something different...........and who says he his a genius?....it will be interesting to see how he deal with the men in west indies cricket as compared to the boys he dealt with in the schools, some of which has now graduated to west indies level...........the proof of the pudding is in the eating as you say......but Roddy may not be cake/pudding......he may be a rock cake and nuff people cayn eat dem, especially if dey got false teet.........wunna too like to sweat the small stuff............and I would bet that the issue most of allya will have with him has to do with where he is from............

No response necessary.......

In reply to cherri

one of your better post. you are making de doctor proud.

In reply to cherri

YES!
Response necessary……….
truth be told – I had no idea of where the man is/was from……….but you just give a big clue as to why you are so in the tank for him………

it’s amazing how no opinion can be considered as just selfless……….there must always be a selfish reason for everything……….this is truly astounding………..

i remember you once posting that one of your favorite band is Steel Pulse…………and me thinking – that’s my least favorite band -------not all opinions come with baggage bro….something you may want to consider

In reply to sudden

i concur

In reply to birdseye

she is correct. easy to tell where you are from too when you support an article that is embarrassingly inaccurate and lacks any perspective.

In reply to sudden

Roddy, who is a fine coach, will only be as good as his charges let him be.

And that has always been the story of success in coaching WI players.

In reply to Commie

and that is the perspective Helps is lacking. his only reference to prove that Estwick will fail is to point out coaches who were not v good players failing. he conveniently or rather glossed over Kanhai and Marshall just to name a few coaches who were great players and could not dent the outer crust of the WI players' brains

In reply to sudden

My argument has nothing whatsoever to do with the article – I haven’t even read the article – my beef is with replacing Ambrose with a reason as superfluous as – we need someone with more technical skills --------- how does a bowler gets to the senior national cricket team without the necessary technical skills?....... shouldn’t Roddy (whose forte is bowling technique) have been employed to prepare these guys prior to their elevation – that’s like hiring someone to put the finishing touches to a structure that has no foundation………building from the top down…..interesting concept – don’t you think?

In reply to birdseye

Should have known that your post had nothing to do with the subject

In reply to sudden

You may have arrived at the party late – but at least you showed up……..you guys continue wid uno Fact-finding forays ……..i will be watching the results

In reply to birdseye

That is correct, many of these coaches in tennis and golf, travell to majors and other tournaments to continue the work, they have been doing with their players.
Birdie, Como worked began in the off season, or during the weeks Tiger took off from playing.
Hours are spent daily on repetition, at the majors, these coaches are observing, and getting video to assist at the end of each round.
Do you really think, Ambrose motivating Kemar to bowl, can help him with his technical problems?

In reply to sudden

man why u doan leave Nick girl friend.

In reply to birdseye

be honest Birdie, would u employ Ambrose with his record as a bowling consultant, forget about Ambrose the great fast bowler and evaluate him on results as a consultant.

In reply to birdseye
What Simmons really meant is that he needs someone who can impart technical skills to his charges. He does not mean someone who has more technical skills than Ambrose.
Hope that clears it up for you.