Message Board Archives
Gayle and the subject of Race
ponderiver
2016-05-24 23:37:47
Featured in the Guardian
This from the comments section 
mi rahtid !!!
Also Mel Mclaughlin is outrageously beautiful. If you're going to send a woman as attractive as that to interview a man who thinks mostly with his dick, you have to question what the TV Channel was expecting.
I could have predicted what would transpire so why didn't the producers?
Reply Report
JohnGotti 2h ago
0
1
A lot of hypocrisy going on here. Firstly the venerated West Indian cricketers of yesteryear had a few knob merchants in their dressing room who could certainly have matched Gayle's antics. As did many other countries. So let's drop all the pious rubbish about cricketers from previous era's they were just living in a more discreet age.
He's a a renowned womaniser who will hit on anything with a pulse. He's far from the only sportsman like this. Jamaican men have a kind of crude sexuality that is ingrained into their culture. You only have to listen to Shabba Ranks and many other musicians from that country to know that. It's just different to how we are here but all the faux outrage is a bit laughable. He hasn't actually hurt anyone and if the women concerned are left with the impression that he's a massive twat then the joke is on him ultimately.
Devin
2016-05-24 23:42:00
Do you disagree with anyting said in the text you provided?
I'd say it's pretty much spot on.
Khaga
2016-05-24 23:51:45
Shane Warne continues to "ply his trade" without any censure from the cricket pundits. As brainless as Gayle's repeated comments are ,the double standards and hypocricy are rotten stench..
jacksprat
2016-05-25 00:43:59
Jamaican men have a kind of crude sexuality that is ingrained into their culture. You only have to listen to Shabba Ranks and many other musicians from that country to know that.
Racist garbage!!!
This kind of ignorant generalization and offensive stereotyping is as bad as anything of which they are accusing Gayle!
crapaud
2016-05-25 02:59:56
A period of quiet from Gayle would be very welcome. Maybe he could spend that period of quiet educating himself.
CW
2016-05-25 04:41:27
In reply to crapaud
Why the aud on your name?
Devin
2016-05-25 04:47:21
In reply to jacksprat
How is it racist garbage? There are a number of Jamaican women I work with who say the same. It's a West Indian thing.
Runs
2016-05-25 05:00:53
In reply to Devin
Truespeak 
granite
2016-05-25 05:15:42
I don't need to be racist,but during banter with Jamaicans and many other Caribbean blokes,when it comes to chatting about women and sex crudeness is 100 % of the conversation.No other race would join in,they just listen and laugh,the Jamaicans always made comments about their size,it always brought out laughter. 
Devin
2016-05-25 05:37:48
In the Caribbean it's common to "psssssst" at a girl or to make the same sound with your mouth as you do when you're calling a dog. Yuh think that $hit will float everywhere? Time and place people, time and place.
If you're meeting with Princess Kate, yuh don't ask her if she wants to hold your bat
If yuh meeting with Princess Kate on the sly, then go ahead.
bimbo
2016-05-25 06:11:01
In reply to Devin
It has been highlighted in the international press the frequency and horrific raping of women in India. Would you be comfortable with persons calling Indian men rapists?
Halliwell
2016-05-25 06:21:12
ponderiver
2016-05-25 06:35:44
In reply to CW
Ouch that was brutal
NYCGURU
2016-05-25 06:45:12
In reply to granite
You have just explained the behavior pattern of a subculture of Caribbean men.Some posters are going to be offended by what to them is over generalization. Unfortunately, when people like Gayle behaves in this manner, it paints others who are not part of that subculture in the same light.
BeatDball
2016-05-25 06:49:51
In reply to Devin Concur.
Generally speaking, ah suh most of the fellas in the region stay!
sudden
2016-05-25 06:57:19
In reply to Devin
nonsense. on most construction sites and other work sites in N America it is common for women to receive rude sexual suggestions by word and gesture. this is not to take away from what Gayle has done but to try to move this into something perpetrated by only one race, if there is such a thing, is disinguenuous
jacksprat
2016-05-25 07:40:41
In reply to Devin
How is it racist garbage? There are a number of Jamaican women I work with who say the same
It is
racist garbage when one takes one little kernel of truth and generalize it to an entire race, population, nationality or sub-group as if it were an immutable fact.
For example, it has been widely reported in the media that a number of Indo-Caribbean women have been beheaded by their partners.
Were I to assert that spousal murder and domestic abuse was "crude pattern of behaviour which is
deeply ingrained into the Indo-Caribbean culture" I would be as guilty as this writer, of painting with too broad a brush and ascribing a pattern of anti-social behaviour to an entire race or culture instead of to a few individuals within the race/culture.
That is how racism and stereotyping work!
Ewart
2016-05-25 07:44:05
In reply to sudden
Correct!
//
CW
2016-05-25 07:48:40
In reply to sudden
Jeez sudden ah you dat? Tell them you hear
But if they want to imply that is only Jamaicans chase women then in this world of buller and pear sounds like we ah di pear
JahJah
2016-05-25 07:54:05
In reply to CW
Devin singled out CARIBBEAN culture. Not Jamaican. That was Devin's turnover in the Bajan's court.
Be not fooled, mi bredda.
BeatDball
2016-05-25 07:57:29
Years ago, my wife n I was attending a `wake` in the vicinity of 130st n linden blvd. Out of nowhere, I'm hearing, pssst from two indogt youths! I knew they were recent arrivals n ignored the situation. What would have happened to them, if I were Hispanic or African American????
CW
2016-05-25 08:03:46
In reply to JahJah
It's kind of sad to see how brainwashed people get 
Man allegedly dis a woman journalist and lo and behold a facking woman journalist going to interview him....lol pick the bones out of that
And we have pagan pricks saying man rep other man from the region jeez
jacksprat
2016-05-25 08:03:52
In reply to JahJah
Devin singled out CARIBBEAN culture. Not Jamaican
Only in his
edited version!
Devin
2016-05-25 08:26:32
In reply to sudden
Does a construction site make up the general public? Jamaica is a place where daggerin is a celebrated dance. An entertainer will get on stage and send a woman flying into the crowd with no regard for her life.
The overwhelming majority of dancehall songs deal with punanny, daggering, stabbing up the meat, beating pus$y, sucking cocky, etc etc.
Tens of thousands of people attend these concerts on a regular basis where this type of behaviour is prevalent.
Devin
2016-05-25 08:27:01
In reply to bimbo
I have no problem with it.
jacksprat
2016-05-25 09:26:28
In reply to Devin
Jamaica is a place where daggerin is a celebrated dance.
Celebrated by whom?
Again:
It is racist garbage when one takes one little kernel of truth and generalize it to an entire race, population, nationality or sub-group as if it were an immutable fact.
Devin
2016-05-25 09:59:31
In reply to jacksprat
Hundreds of thousands of Jamaicans.
granite
2016-05-25 10:03:56
Devin
2016-05-25 10:32:09
In reply to granite
Would you dagger them off the stage and send them flying into the crowd?
jacksprat
2016-05-25 11:33:51
In reply to Devin
Hundreds of thousands of Jamaicans.
Evidence?
You just picked that figure out of your ass, didn't you? !
Even if that were the case, that would only be a sub-culture and can not be blamed on the "Jamaican Culture" at large.
That's just racist claptrap!
Again:
Were I to assert that spousal murder and domestic abuse was "crude pattern of behaviour which is deeply ingrained into the Indo-Caribbean culture" I would be as guilty, as this writer,[and you] of painting with too broad a brush and ascribing a pattern of anti-social behaviour to an entire race or culture of people instead of to a few individuals within the race/culture.
moneybrain
2016-05-25 12:39:47
jacksprat
2016-05-25 16:38:32
In reply to moneybrain
See above 
The operative word is "SOME.."
Cleg
2016-05-25 18:58:02
In reply to CW
In reply to crapaud
Why the aud on your name?
I have often wondered why myself!
Babylon
2016-05-25 21:53:03
In reply to jacksprat
wot u think about this?
When someone from the region acts in this manner, he makes all West Indians look bad to the entire world. And those who try to dismiss such slimy conduct “as a West Indian ting” only help to perpetrate a false and damaging stereo type. Gayle crossed a line that he either refuses to acknowledge, or of which he is not aware.
But what the heck, this is the West Indies, so is no big ting.
jacksprat
2016-05-25 23:01:25
In reply to Babylon
When someone from the region acts in this manner, he makes all West Indians look bad to the entire world.
That is just utter foolishness!
I have never believed in group guilt; That is inherently racist. If Gayle acts the fool, he is embarrassing himself, not me.
So if someone is going to blame an entire region, race or culture for the misstep of one individual, then why should I waste valuable energy trying to prove them wrong?
It is the same kind of racist mentality why some white women would clutch their purses as I walk by them on the street dressed in my business suit. The onus is not on me to put their mind at ease!
They are the ones with the problem.
Verstehen
2016-05-25 23:05:59
In reply to CW
And we have pagan pricks saying man rep other man from the region jeez
I am not sure what you are implying here but taken at face value it seems that you trying to make a random point on a debate over alleged sexual misconduct by putting down the religion of another person.
How does anyone being a 'pagan prick' have to do with this subject. More important, what does it say about you that you're using such a term? Do you think it does your own religion any favours apart from making it look ugly in the extreme?
Babylon
2016-05-25 23:32:13
In reply to jacksprat
Do dem have a reason when you're around?
nick2020
2016-05-25 23:37:20
In reply to jacksprat
I have a question:
Do you see anything wrong with the things Gayle is saying?
Verstehen
2016-05-26 00:21:23
In reply to nick2020
He can speak for himself but it seems to me that he has not - yet- explicitly denied that Gayle may be in the wrong.
What he objects to is typecasting an entire people based on the behaviour of a few, a position that seems eminently fair.
CW
2016-05-26 00:35:22
In reply to Verstehen
it implies representation ...if you didn't know what I am implying why did you try to put your slant on it by holding on to this religious thing
Seem that it's hypocrites that say they are being represented. Get your own life and don't play like you are on CG's team is what I say
Btw do you know my religion? Or am I religious ?
ponderiver
2016-05-26 00:48:05
In reply to Verstehen
He can speak for himself but it seems to me that he has not - yet- explicitly denied that Gayle may be in the wrong.
What he objects to is typecasting an entire people based on the behaviour of a few, a position that seems eminently fair.
I was about to give up on you but finally you have come to acknowledge the thrust of Spratty's argument
suffice to say it makes the earlier point redundant........ Gayle's behaviour ? it becomes incidental ...........When ,viewed through the lens of conditioning ? it has obvious connotations !!!!
The elephant in the room is the implied disrespect shown to a white woman and the vilification of a black man. it always is
Since the advent of the media mogul Murdoch it would appear that female cricket/sports correspondents,pundits etc for the most part are not there for their knowledge of the game ........ they are there as eye candy (ever watched female wrestling) . Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in cloud cuckoo land
Verstehen
2016-05-26 01:13:14
In reply to CW
I know neither your religion nor whether you're religious either, but I'd say that calling someone a pagan prick seemingly out of nowhere in a secular discussion at the very least raises questions. I am not sure what you mean even now, post your new comment, but let it go.
In reply to ponedriver
I was about to give up on you but finally you have come to acknowledge the thrust of Spratty's argument
I hardly participated in this thread for you to give up on me, or for me to to finally acknowledge what jackspart was saying, IMO. Be that as it may, Gayle's behaviour is immature, if not downright crude and deserves harsh condemnation.
Juts as one cannot typify all Jamaicans or Caribbean males based on Gayle'e behaviour, in this context it is
(a) Still wrong, whether or not 0%, 1% or 100% of Jamaican or Caribbean males display it.
(b) Not to be explained away way either by the rough debating equivalent of saying "That's how we roll fellas".
I'm done on this thread.
I've only got a limited quantity of precious hate in me, will save it for the anti-Pakistan threads...
CW
2016-05-26 01:19:57
In reply to Verstehen
Lol pagan pricks=hypocrites
ponderiver
2016-05-26 02:15:35
In reply to Verstehen
I've only got a limited quantity of precious hate in me, will save it for the anti-Pakistan threads...
Pakistani hate threads apart thats a good place to be.
Me ? i am not so lucky .... I have no hate in me ,however I am forever drawn in to respond to the hate directed at me and my kind
CW
2016-05-26 03:34:33
In reply to ponderiver
Bro you see how it goes...everybody have hate in them but you mustn't respond to any directed to you or you peeps
Wow
FanAttick
2016-05-26 03:41:46
In reply to ponderiver
Evan Wynns
Not to imply this problem doesn't exist- it does and it's real and we as men should call it out when we see it.
But the problem with this author's perspective and conclusions is in her immediate use of the qualifier 'unwanted' when describing the guy's overtures in the beginning of the piece (as well as the subjective attribute of 'creepy' an indefinable and fluid trait).
The thing is, the way sexualized interactions are in our culture, we have no way of knowing whether those attentions are unwanted or not unless we give it a shot.
Now, our task, as it is for all social interactions, is to be sensitive to the person's perspective on the other side of the interaction. In other words, the social contract as we've developed it in our culture is that men have to press their suit to get anywhere, but that carries with it an implied requirement to be gentlemanly and, should your overture be rejected, to be gracious about it.
But it doesn't mean that the practice of flirting or hitting on the opposite sex is wrong- in fact, women when they like the guy (which again, we have virtually no way of recognizing without sending up an experimental flag) can be downright disappointed when they don't get the attention they desire. It's a thorny subject, and on the whole,
I agree that the most pressing issue is guys in the age of sexualized culture, internet porn, commercialization of sex, etc, learning some savoir faire when it comes to flirting rather than women recognizing that we've all kind of agreed to have it this way.
Nevertheless, I think it's overstating the case to characterize the problem as 'male entitlement to women's bodies' or that men should simply stop this kind of behavior outright rather then learning to express it with nuance and in the appropriate way.
"Creepy" guy at Starbucks
Verstehen
2016-05-26 06:09:42
In reply to ponedriver, CW
Both of you lack a sense of humour. Dare I say, I was kidding about Pakistan- it was a self reflected comment intended to acknowledge that we are none of us saints.
JahJah
2016-05-26 06:12:42
In reply to moneybrain
The reality is that Cbean and especially Jammie men are for more aggressive and sexually suggestive than the norm in Metropolitan Cities.
Hahahahahaha.
That's why I laugh at some of the Jamaicans who believe in this West Indian unity. It happens way too often in England. Love seeing gullible Yardies act shocked when other West Indians attempt to throw them under the bus so as to align themselves with...
"No, massa, it's the ones from Jamaica. We not like dem massa."
HAHAHAHAHAHHHAHAHAHHAHAHA
CW
2016-05-26 06:14:51
nick2020
2016-05-26 07:59:52
In reply to ponderiver
Do you see anything wrong with Gayle's actions?
CW
2016-05-26 08:41:38
In reply to nick2020
Nick ask a relevant question please.... Who is the moral police? Do you see anything wrong with having a woman spreading her business all over the place?
What was gained by reporting that a man ask you if you slept with a Blackman ...if you must go that far what not report on the response...for all you know she said yes
I can see reporting on the first bit but a direct personal question? Why? Who cares about the question...its personal and should be sorted between the two of them but if you are going for fairness in broadcasting then give the response
Think about it
ponderiver
2016-05-26 08:58:39
In reply to nick2020
My opinion is irellevant
Yours is the one that matters most.
I for one if it helps would not be engaging any female reporter along those lines.
Having worked in the media I am all too aware of their capacity to be liberal with the truth
Sensation sells
Draw your own conclusions
natty_forever
2016-05-26 09:10:31
In reply to Devin... sorry you are wrong on this one.
Toney
2016-05-26 16:52:24
In reply to BeatDball
Years ago, my wife n I was attending a `wake` in the vicinity of 130st n linden blvd. Out of nowhere, I'm hearing, pssst from two indogt youths! I knew they were recent arrivals n ignored the situation. What would have happened to them, if I were Hispanic or African American????
Who. Was the "past" directed to, you or your wife? In this day and age one never knows.
nick2020
2016-05-27 07:38:42
In reply to CW
It is irrelevant because you rather not answer it?
Seems much more convenient to opine about how the world is treating Gayle unfairly and how everyone is out to get him yet turn a blind eye to the fact that he is the root cause of the problem.
Wake me up to fight for the black man who is throw out of cricket despite acting properly. But to champion the cause of some athlete acting like a fool?
Yeah. You go right ahead.
CW
2016-05-27 08:02:40
In reply to nick2020
Your words not mine.... What dis about fight for the Blackman? Man get a grip and go try to fool someone else... You are just opening your mouth to let words fall out
What da fack does the man opinion has to do with you...as the man said your opinion is important to you but fack you and this thing a bout fight for a Blackman... You think any Blackman want you to fight for them? You just don't get it that's why you think people fighting for CG.... Get real and let your masters change your program...damn sheep
And don't insult me with your screwed up wake me up to fight for a Blackman...facked up asswipe... Man worth how much millions what di fack would he want you or me to fight for him? Are you so in love with watching him?
Use that bs line with someone else jeez..if you must come then come correct or don't come at all
What problem anyway?
And it's irrelevant because it is...
BeatDball
2016-05-27 08:10:18
In reply to Toney Tony bai, U reel fackting funny....
nick2020
2016-05-27 09:07:02
In reply to CW
What da fack does the man opinion has to do with you
That is a pretty asinine stance. Where people post topics, share opinions, and debate.
But I get it.
CW
2016-05-27 09:32:43
nick2020
2016-05-27 10:12:34
In reply to CW
I get where your mind is at.....no worries
ditto.
ponderiver
2016-05-28 00:20:51
In reply to FanAttick
Evan Wynns
Not to imply this problem doesn't exist- it does and it's real and we as men should call it out when we see it.
But the problem with this author's perspective and conclusions is in her immediate use of the qualifier 'unwanted' when describing the guy's overtures in the beginning of the piece (as well as the subjective attribute of 'creepy' an indefinable and fluid trait).
The thing is, the way sexualized interactions are in our culture, we have no way of knowing whether those attentions are unwanted or not unless we give it a shot.
Now, our task, as it is for all social interactions, is to be sensitive to the person's perspective on the other side of the interaction. In other words, the social contract as we've developed it in our culture is that men have to press their suit to get anywhere, but that carries with it an implied requirement to be gentlemanly and, should your overture be rejected, to be gracious about it.
But it doesn't mean that the practice of flirting or hitting on the opposite sex is wrong- in fact, women when they like the guy (which again, we have virtually no way of recognizing without sending up an experimental flag) can be downright disappointed when they don't get the attention they desire. It's a thorny subject, and on the whole,
I agree that the most pressing issue is guys in the age of sexualized culture, internet porn, commercialization of sex, etc, learning some savoir faire when it comes to flirting rather than women recognizing that we've all kind of agreed to have it this way.
Nevertheless, I think it's overstating the case to characterize the problem as 'male entitlement to women's bodies' or that men should simply stop this kind of behavior outright rather then learning to express it with nuance and in the appropriate way.
some great points in this piece...
Question is it ever appropriate to pay a woman a compliment ?
for example
you have a nice accent .... where are you from ?
