The Independent Voice of West Indies Cricket

Message Board Archives

Guyana XI to take on Bim

 
googley 2016-12-02 16:31:56 

1. Freddo
2: Baichan
3: Kanhai
4: Kalli
5: Shivster
6: Lloyd
7: Hooper
8: Ramnarace
9: Colin Croft
10:John Trim
11:Lance Gibbs

 
Outswinger 2016-12-02 16:45:03 

In reply to googley

wuh bout Sars, Butcher, Harper, Lambert, Reon.....?

 
Runs 2016-12-02 17:03:28 

In reply to Outswinger

Name your team cool

 
Norm 2016-12-02 17:13:47 

Put Sars in for Baichan.

You need a keeper too.

 
FuzzyWuzzy 2016-12-02 17:13:58 

On numbers Butcher before Hooper

 
anandgb 2016-12-02 17:36:24 

1. Freddo
2: Shivster/Kanhai
3: Kanhai /Sarwan
4: Kalli
5: Shivster/Sarwan
6: Lloyd
7: Hooper/Pydanna
8: Ramnarace
9: Colin Croft
10:John Trim/Blackboy
11:Lance Gibbs

Sarwan has to be in that team. Surely you are not thinking of RB as keeper. I would add Pyndanna to the team and drop Hooper

 
Oilah 2016-12-02 17:55:14 

Nuff batting but bowling weak...relatively speaking of course wink

 
anandgb 2016-12-02 17:58:53 

In reply to Oilah

Do not forget that Kalli can bowl as well

 
WestDem 2016-12-02 20:53:13 

In reply to googley

Dat is not de best Guyana team, dat is a Berbice frenism team! lol lol razz lol

 
Narper 2016-12-02 21:12:27 

Every couple of years we go through this very same excercise...and we pick de same great ole farts.....in different combinations.....no young farts are ever going to replace those great ole farts.

Anyway...lemme add another dimension to this....many mudlanders were class players for mudland....but never got a real chance to play for WI....or not given a decent run for WI team

A few come to mind....
Romain Etwaroo
McGarrell
Nagamootoo

 
WestDem 2016-12-02 21:19:06 

In reply to Narper

McGarrell and Mahendra Nags played for de WI bhai... they did not take their opportunity like others... Romain Etwaroo, I hear his Competition was Freddo and Greenidge... you hear anything different? Btw Bacchus benefited from some ah de so-called raw deal!

 
CricketLuva4 2016-12-02 21:42:12 

In reply to googley

Fundamental question - is the team being picked on services for Guyana purely? Or are services for WI a critical factor?

If it's the latter, then Nagas and co deserve a look as Uncle Narps pointed out.

 
anandgb 2016-12-02 22:10:57 

In reply to Narper

What about Timur?

 
Runs 2016-12-02 22:24:02 

Andy Jackman, Rab Seeram, Andrew Lyght

 
Norm 2016-12-02 23:18:10 

In reply to WestDem

Romain was very unlucky, McGarrell a bit unlucky and Mahendra N was very lucky.

 
thefacts 2016-12-03 00:28:55 

In reply to googley

I guess EIGHT PLAYERS are automatic picks:

o. Roy Fredricks
o. -----------------------Opener
1. Kanhai
2. Kaalicharan
3. Chanderpaul
4. Clive Lloyd (captain)
5. Hooper
6. -------------------------WK
7. -------------------------2nd Pacer
8. Lance Gibbs
9. Colin Croft

As for 3 remaining picks:

Opener Options:
There is no natural opener to match the 8 above, hence my pick for opening would be Basil Butcher, who was a No.4 otherwise

WK:
Again, no one who matches the above 8, and I have no idea who is the best muddie WK ever .. I would be guessing here if i would post a name,

2nd Pacer:
Reon King

So my XI:

o. Roy Fredricks
o. Basil Butcher
1. Kanhai
2. Kaalicharan
3. Chanderpaul
4. Clive Lloyd (captain)
5. Hooper
6. -------------------------WK?
7. Reon King
8. Lance Gibbs
9. Colin Croft

I'd say Rockstar Batting Lineup.... 1 bowler & WK short of a great XI.

 
Norm 2016-12-03 09:27:23 

In reply to thefacts

Open with Freddo and one of Sars, Kanhai, Shiv or Hoops.

Guyana's best wicketkeepers were: Cyril Christiani, Clive McWatt and Ivor Mendonca. Kanhai would probably get the job here though.

The other pacer (apart from Crofty) has to be John Trim. The others just can't cut it at the highest level.

 
Narper 2016-12-03 09:39:00 

In reply to Norm

Guyana's best wicketkeepers were: Cyril Christiani, Clive McWatt and Ivor Mendonca. Kanhai would probably get the job here though.


What about Reds Murray?

 
Narper 2016-12-03 09:41:46 

In reply to anandgb

Timur was a boss

 
Narper 2016-12-03 09:42:56 

In reply to WestDem

McGarrell and Mahendra Nags played for de WI bhai... they did not take their opportunity like others.


Prove that

 
Seechy 2016-12-03 10:52:08 

1. Roy Fredericks
2. Rohan Kanhai
3. Basil Butcher
4. Alvin Kallicharran
5. Shivnarine Chanderpaul
6. Clive Lloyd (C)
7. Carl Hooper
8. Robert Christiani (Wk)
9. Reon King
10. Lance Gibbs
11. Colin Croft

 
googley 2016-12-03 12:15:31 

In reply to WestDem

you want to pick players based on quality or location? Berbice was the boss in many ways including cricket! In the words of the prof, "hug that up" lol lol lol lol lol

 
googley 2016-12-03 12:16:29 

In reply to CricketLuva4

Guyana...this is a first class game. That means the first class bullies have to be given due consideration!

 
openning 2016-12-03 12:29:28 

In reply to Seechy
Why would you insert the greatest Guyanese batsman, to open?
Basil Butcher has to make all Guyana regional teams,
The only three players that should be considered for an all time Guyana team from 1985-2016 are, Shiv, Sarwan and Hooper, the only one that should be selected ahead of Basil is Shiv.
That mean you youngsters, have to do your research

 
Seechy 2016-12-03 13:05:38 

In reply to openning

Who else can open then? I didn't leave Basil out; he is at no. 3.

 
Runs 2016-12-03 13:10:45 

In reply to Seechy

That team will not be able to bowl out a strong Bim or Yard side. wink

 
Cricket_101 2016-12-03 17:03:29 

In reply to Norm

I've never heard of Ivor Mendonca...
During what period he played.

 
Norm 2016-12-03 18:07:12 

In reply to Cricket_101

Represented Guyana from 1959 - 1961. WI keeper in 1962 for 2 Tests, when Hendriks was injured.

See more here.

 
Norm 2016-12-03 18:14:42 

In reply to openning

I could see Butch playing ahead of Hoops in such a team.

 
Norm 2016-12-03 20:06:14 

In reply to Narper

What about Reds Murray?

Couldn't get as far as Pydanna or Skinner.

 
Cricket_101 2016-12-03 20:37:16 

In reply to Norm

Thanks. He's a decent average..,.

 
Runs 2016-12-03 20:57:35 

In reply to Norm

Wow still alive

 
openning 2016-12-04 00:41:35 

In reply to Runs

I grew up watching Guyana VS Barbardos, that was classic first class cricket.
I was never a fan of Hooper, and Sarwan as VC being dropped, left a bad taste
The only player that would make an all time Guyana or Barbados team between 1985-2016 is Shiv
No bajan qualify, Sarwan, Hooper were little better than some of their peers

 
analyst-kid 2016-12-04 01:59:30 

In reply to openning

Interesting enough the bulk of a Barbados Alltime Eleven is comprised of Barbadian batsman who started in the 1940s and 1950s: Weekes Worrell and Walcott (194cool Sobers (1954) and Hunte (195cool.....Nurse was in 1960 then you get Greenidge (1974) and Haynes (197cool

It would take a tremendous batsman to get in that team in front that great eight.

Similarily after the HALL and GRIFFITH era, the emergence in the 1970s of Garner,Marshall,Clarke Daniel,followed by early 1980s Hartley Alleyne,Stephenson Moseley with Vanburn Holder (1969) and Keith Boyce (1971) around also makes it hard for any bowler to get past these and then the top five.

Drakes,Gibson,Collymore,Collins, Bradshaw,Roach and Edwards cannot do it, although Collymore before his injury might have been a great one.

 
openning 2016-12-04 02:17:24 

In reply to analyst-kid

Until you get young brains in the BCA, or get rid of the people thats been in office for the 15-20 years, Barbados cricket will not be elevated.
Conde Riley can recite every clause in the Barbados and WICB memorandum, but I am yet to hear him with any recommendation that will advance cricket.
He is the one slated to replace BB
What views has Conde brought to the table, in his 15-20 years as an elected board member, name two issues that he has put forward to elevate cricket in the Island.
Conde is yesterday's news, and should not be president of the BCA.

I am not surprise by local cricketers not advancing to the elite level

 
Norm 2016-12-04 02:23:11 

In reply to Runs
He died in 2014. I need to update my site!

 
Runs 2016-12-04 07:42:43 

In reply to Norm

Ok, thanks great work bro

 
FuzzyWuzzy 2016-12-04 14:08:07 

In reply to openning

Who are these young BCA members? Where are there?

 
openning 2016-12-04 17:36:52 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Fuzz, time to drain the swam, all these people can do is, recite every word in the BCA and WICB constitutions.
They bring know new ideas to the table, that's why cricket remain stagnant, the players are not developing as compare to other nations, and the BCA has not produced one elite player in almost 30 years.
Yet people want Conde Riley who has been part on the poorly organized BCA system for over 20 years to be the next president.
Give me a break.

 
Spiderbuff 2016-12-05 09:01:48 

Once Reon King spot is assured...you know that side could only be decent at best.
twisted

 
Bigzinc 2016-12-05 11:49:36 

In reply to googley

any Guyana team starts with these:

Lloyd
RBK
Freddo
Kalli
Shiv
Croft
Gibbs

Choose the other five from

Openers Baichan, Lyght, Lambert, Bacchus :--My choice is Baichan

Middle order Butcher, Hooper, Sars, Timur, Jackman, Seeram :-- my choice is Butcher

Allrounder Hooper, Harper, Ramnarace :--My choice is Hooper

Other fast bowler Lambert, Trim, Stayers, Joseph, Brown, King

Other spinner Butts, Harper, Kallicharran, Nagas, Bishoo,

there you have it

 
Kay 2016-12-05 12:01:38 

In reply to Bigzinc

Middle order Butcher, Hooper, Sars, Timur, Jackman, Seeram :-- my choice is Butcher

I really can't see the love for Butcher on this thread.

Butcher played 44 tests, averaged 43 with 7 centuries

Sarwan played 87 tests, averaged 40 with 15 centuries and earn a place before Butcher any day.......

 
Bigzinc 2016-12-05 14:37:56 

In reply to Kay



stats show that shiv was a better bat than Kanhai and as good as viv and lara.. according to stats, shewag was as good or better than viv.

 
openning 2016-12-05 14:51:02 

In reply to Kay

Lets compare Basil's overall batting stats to Sarwan,
First-Class Career Batting and Fielding (1954/55-1971/72)49.90


First-Class Career Batting and Fielding (1995/96-2014)38.52l

I've seen both of them, Butcher like Nurse would make both countries all time X1
Sarwan is not in Butcher's class as a batsman.

 
FuzzyWuzzy 2016-12-05 14:54:49 

Where's Steve Camacho? Why's he not on mudland team?

 
Bigzinc 2016-12-05 15:15:11 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

good find.. I had forgotten about Steve C.

 
googley 2016-12-05 16:34:35 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

The battle for opening bats is among Freddo, Baichan, Comacho, Lambert, Bacchus, etc

 
googley 2016-12-05 16:34:51 

match drawn!

 
Runs 2016-12-05 17:08:59 

In reply to googley

Is Ovid Glasgow the Policeman known as Sco?

 
anandgb 2016-12-05 23:12:13 

In reply to googley

Fredo and Timur would be my openers.

 
Bigzinc 2016-12-06 09:46:52 

In reply to anandgb

cannot play timur over baichan as opener.. Baichan FC stats way superior.

 
googley 2016-12-06 09:58:05 

In reply to Runs

Don't know. Maybe one of the other posters know.

 
googley 2016-12-06 09:59:51 

In reply to anandgb

As much as I like Timur I won't play him as an opener. There were better and proven opening bats. He will have to fight for place in the second XI! lol

 
Bigzinc 2016-12-06 10:03:23 

In reply to googley

Agreed.

 
Rudeman 2016-12-06 12:43:51 

How about Joe Solomon

 
Cricket_101 2016-12-06 13:01:14 

In reply to anandgb

Fredo and Tim are potent players...

 
JahJah 2016-12-06 14:31:55 

In reply to Bigzinc

according to stats, shewag was as good or better than viv


Which stats are those?

 
Bigzinc 2016-12-06 14:38:11 

In reply to JahJah

read the cricinfo article...

lies, damn lies and statistics

 
JahJah 2016-12-06 14:46:26 

In reply to Bigzinc

Which stats are those? You mentioned stats. Which stats?

 
WestDem 2016-12-06 15:33:15 

In reply to Runs

Is Ovid Glasgow the Policeman known as Sco?



Yes...you ever get yelled at by him? lol lol

 
Bigzinc 2016-12-06 15:48:10 

In reply to JahJah

Shewag


His numbers are up there with the very best. Seventy-two Tests is substantial sample, and over 6000 runs at over 50, with 17 hundreds, comfortably stands up to statistical scrutiny. But there is one number that sets him apart. No batsman in the history of cricket has scored his runs as quickly. In the list of batsmen to have scored 6000 Test runs, he, with a strike-rate of just over 80, stands more than 10 points adrift of the next best man. That man, Viv Richards, scored his runs at a shade below 70.

Reduce the qualification to 5000 runs and there are only two men who have been recorded to have scored faster. But both Kapil Dev and Adam Gilchrist batted at No. 7; Kapil averaged only 31.50, and Sehwag has 700 more runs in 14 fewer Tests than Gilchrist, whose average was boosted by 20 not-outs as against Sehwag's five.

On a more like-like for list, of contemporary top-order batsmen, Sehwag stands miles ahead. Sachin Tendulkar (12,917 runs at 54.73) has a strike-rate of 54.12, Ricky Ponting (11,400 runs at 55.8cool scores at a rate of 59.41, Matthew Hayden (8625 runs at 50.73) got his at 60.10, and Brian Lara (11,953 runs at 52.8cool at 60.51. Sanath Jayasuriya comes closest, with a strike-rate of 65.10, but his average is just over 40.


For me, nobody tops viv and lara

 
JahJah 2016-12-06 16:33:10 

In reply to Bigzinc

I saw your post about stats, and so looked at the stats and see stats that are more or less equal...for Test cricket. Didn't see the better part, hence the question.

 
Dukes 2016-12-06 17:44:29 

MY ALL-TIME GUYANA TEAM


1. Roy Fredericks
2.Leonard Baichan
3. Rohan Kanhai
4.Alvin Kallicharran
5.Shivnarine Chanderpaul
6. Clive Lloyd
7. Carl Hooper
8.Geoff Murray
9.John Trim
10.Colin Croft
11. Lance Gibbs

 
Runs 2016-12-06 17:48:17 

Link TextIn reply to WestDem
famous bowlegs cant miss

Nah, I was too young very nice guy
lol

 
openning 2016-12-06 20:45:03 

In reply to Dukes

You are showing your age
No Sarwan and having on your X1, Geoff Murray and John Trim?
Them two are long before my time


lol lol

 
Narper 2016-12-06 21:00:28 

In reply to Dukes

8.Geoff Murray


Reds Murray....I was asking Norm about him...I would pick him too.

In fact...that is the best Mudland team

 
Bigzinc 2016-12-07 12:33:15 

In reply to Dukes

hard to argue against this team..

no love for Milton Pydanna?? was an excellent keeper

 
googley 2016-12-07 14:31:35 

In case anyone has doubts why Baichan was chosen...

Baichan scored 4,504 runs first class run with an avg of 51.18, including 13 hundreds and 23 fifties

 
Bigzinc 2016-12-07 15:39:23 

In reply to googley

like I said, baich stats superior to timur..

 
Runs 2016-12-07 16:52:42 

In reply to Bigzinc

Baich problem was that he was not easy on the eyes unlike Timur lol

 
Dukes 2016-12-07 18:35:34 

In reply to Bigzinc

I actually know Py quite well.He lives in NYC and I remember him boasting about how he was a better keeper than Dujon and how they were contemplating playing Duj as a batsman and having Py keep wicket.Mind you we were drinking in a rum shop at Robb and Oronoque street so it could have been the 5 year old.We teased him mercilessly when he was dropped for Lonsdale Skinner who came from England
after playing for Surrey.In terms of confidence Pydanna had that in spades but he could not hold a candle to Reds Murray who was a brilliant wicketkeeper.

 
Stilbatn 2016-12-08 02:05:36 

In reply to WestDem

Without Butcher and Solomon

 
Stilbatn 2016-12-08 02:12:59 

In reply to Bigzinc

No REX Collymore as spinner? just asking

 
Stilbatn 2016-12-08 02:16:59 

In reply to Norm

No mention of Clifford MC WATT AS KEEPER, YOU MENTIONED IVOR MENDONCA AND CLIVE MC WATT --JUST THINKING YOU MAY HAVE HAD THE FIRST NAME WRONG

 
Stilbatn 2016-12-08 02:31:25 

In reply to Norm

No mention of Clifford MC WATT AS KEEPER

 
Stilbatn 2016-12-08 02:32:56 

In reply to Runs

Yes he is

 
Bigzinc 2016-12-08 09:41:09 

In reply to Runs

Timur was a very elegant batsman and a beautiful timer of the ball. Very similar to Hoops who was in a class by himself.

 
Kay 2016-12-08 10:00:42 

Timur was a below average first class player and that is the reason he never played test cricket. His 30 sintin first class average will bear that out.

Can't see why he is even mentioned in any all time team....

 
Runs 2016-12-08 10:30:24 

In reply to Kay

You need to look at the total player, he was a star under 19 player if memory serves me correctly he scored a century in each inning at Kensington Oval, captained the West Indies B team to Zimbabwe. Played County cricket in England also, he was once called up to represent WI due to an injured player and scored a century.
So obviously the selectors saw potential in him, the problem for him getting into the side was there were no spots. wink
You cannot judge solely on stats, then Baichan should have been a fixture in the WI. cool
Link Text

 
Kay 2016-12-08 12:43:39 

In reply to Runs

Played County cricket in England also, he was once called up to represent WI due to an injured player and scored a century.

Was this call up for test duty? His performance in county stints in England would be included in his first class stats which as I mentioned are poor.

Show me the numbers man ... not sentiments and look good. A lot of under 19 stars did not go on to be even good players

 
Bigzinc 2016-12-08 13:28:45 

In reply to Kay

Stats show that Shiv is greater than Kanhai and on par with viv and lara...

numbers not everything.

timur made runs against the likes of marshall, Clarke, daniels, ferris, The Jeff Thompsom, meyrick etc.

he made a century against the touring oz in 78.

Timur could bat

 
Runs 2016-12-08 13:34:06 

In reply to Bigzinc

cool

 
Dukes 2016-12-08 14:47:04 

Timur Mohamed was an elegant batsman. Timur Mohamed is a very intelligent guy who I understand is an extremely successful businessman. However he is nowhere near an all-time Guyana team.
He has 5 first class centuries, all for Guyana.2 at rose Hall and 1 at Bourda and 1 each at Guaracara Park and Jarrett Park in Trinidad and Jamaica respectively. None were particularly outstanding or noteworthy.

 
Narper 2016-12-08 14:50:15 

In reply to Dukes

Didn't Timur make a ton for the touring WI team in England...an emergency call to play a match for WI...as he was already playing in England..and there were some injuries in the WI team

 
Bigzinc 2016-12-08 14:53:10 

In reply to Dukes

dukes, agreed that timur does not even mention in an all Guyana 11. Having said that, he was very good batsman.

 
Narper 2016-12-08 14:56:21 

In reply to Dukes

It was not a ton....

Timur played one FC match for the West Indies team

 
WestDem 2016-12-08 14:56:45 

In reply to Bigzinc

That no one can deny...he had the world of time to play a single shot....He, like other very good batsmen around de Caribbean just played in the wrong era... cool

 
WestDem 2016-12-08 14:58:27 

In reply to Narper

He scored a ton against a non FC team for the WI...Ah can't remember the game though!

 
Narper 2016-12-08 15:00:37 

Timur 's Father - Edwin Mohammed

Slow left arm orthodox - played 12 matches for BG

 
Narper 2016-12-08 15:02:09 

In reply to WestDem

Yeah....I seem to remember he did score a ton in England for the WI touring team...but the records don't show a FC match in England

 
Runs 2016-12-08 15:11:42 

I agree that Timur could not make an all time Guyana XI wink

 
Bigzinc 2016-12-08 15:52:25 

In reply to WestDem

Timur, Otto, Jackman and Theo Cuffy were all vying for a non existing spot in the Wi team.

 
Narper 2016-12-08 16:15:35 

In reply to Bigzinc

Theo Cuffy ?????

Naaah....Theo Cuffy was never in contention

 
Runs 2016-12-08 16:22:13 

In reply to Narper

Probably meant Thelston Payne?

 
Dukes 2016-12-08 16:55:18 

In reply to Bigzinc

I was very close to the Jackman's so I am biased,but I think Andy Jackman at age 21 in his first full season of first class cricket scoring a masterful 125 against the touring Australians at Bourda was a gem of an innings. That Australian team included 2 fast bowlers who ended up with more than 100 test wickets each,Rodney Hogg and Geoff Lawson.Andy like Timur came at the wrong time but they were both pretty batsmen who would have done well at test cricket.

 
Narper 2016-12-08 17:18:18 

Alyuh remember a fella named Rabindranath Seeram

That fella coulda bat as a youthman....but didn't go very far

 
methodic 2016-12-08 17:20:12 

In reply to Dukes

Jackman and Timur were two batsmen I liked. After losing touch with the team for a few years after leaving T+T. I was surprised that Jackman never became a test player. Timur was running against Mattis, Chang, Dujon and a couple others at the time.

 
Runs 2016-12-08 18:44:43 

Sudesh Dhaniram

 
Bigzinc 2016-12-09 09:04:17 

In reply to Dukes

Indeed dukes. Jackman was rated very highly but just played in the wrong era. I watched I think most of his batting at bourda and saw the inning against the touring oz, if memory serves me correctly. He was also very stylish.

 
Bigzinc 2016-12-09 09:04:36 

In reply to Runs

dhaniram was not in timur or jackman class

 
Runs 2016-12-09 10:51:11 

In reply to Bigzinc

That is debatable cool maybe not quite but showed early promise, was good against fast bowling.
I saw him make an excellent century against the likes of Garner etc. After he got hit in the face he was never the same batsman

 
Bigzinc 2016-12-09 11:47:55 

In reply to Runs

Seeram was a much better batsman than Dhaniram.

 
Runs 2016-12-09 11:58:16 

In reply to Bigzinc

I was a big fan of Rab from his West Dem Case Cup days cool