just looking at some old footage of Gavaskar and Sir Viv and realised that they were way better than Kohli. the bowling nowadays cant compare with the bowling in that era, the pitches are far more docile now and the bats better
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Gavaskar and Viv were better than Kohli
In reply to sudden
It is a massive compliment to Virat that you would compare him to the greatest opening batsman to have ever lived, and Viv Richards.
In reply to sudden
Btw Kohli scored 119 and 96 the first time he played a Test match in South Africa.
That was against Steyn, Morkel and Philander.
Can you name me a better three-prong pace attack that Richards faced.
In reply to Devin
Viv never had to face an English attack of the quality that Kohli is murdering right now..
I must admit, Kholi is the best flat track bully that is making a meal of the subcontinent curry powder wickets. When does he leave the subcontinent next.
In reply to Khaga
The English bowlers up until the mid 90's were a bunch of unathletic lampy pampy clowns. Looked like they belonged in the 1800's.
In reply to carl0002
Averages over 60 in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa.
Is he a greater FTB than Lara?
In reply to Devin
Pringle,Old,Emburey,Edmonds,Hemmings,Tavare,Greig..
In reply to sudden
Btw there is DRS now. No more padding up to spinners. No more pretending to play a shot and the umpire turning away the bowler's appeal.
Seems to be even. No more edging and standing your ground and continuing to bat on.
In reply to Devin
Great bowlers of this era are greater than the ones from the previous era because the present greats are excelling in tougher conditions bowlers. So, the batsmen who excel against the modern day great bowlers are greater than the past greats.
QED!
In reply to sudden
Devin
Devin
Khaga
carl0002
Devin
Devin
Khaga
lord have mercy
In reply to carl0002
62 in Australia(5 100's)
68 in South Africa(1 100)
71.33 in New Zealand(1 100)
In reply to Discourse
Add Discorass!
In reply to Khaga
Absolutely, and let's not forget how much more cricket these guys are playing. It's not easy to constantly make the transition from one format to another, and then another. As West Indians have clearly shown. They've only been able to succeed in one avenue while they've been absolutely atrocious in the other two.
In reply to Devin
Have you seen jahjah?
In reply to Khaga
He's probably getting a massage from some blonde-haired blue-eyed Swede dressed only in a Jamaican flag, as per JahJah's request.
In reply to Khaga
My lord. Even their names sound useless.
In reply to sudden
Based on what you've seen of Lara and Kohli, who do you rate higher?
Remember, Lara never scored runs against Wasim and Waqar, Donald and Pollock, or Shane Bond in New Zealand.
In reply to Devin
The great master of spin bowling, Sri Brian Lara, never scored a 100 against India in India.
In reply to Khaga
Now you're opening up a can of worms. The ultimate flat track bully and greatest player of spin and slow-medium bowling never scored a century in India?
You combine all those things and it's surprising he didn't score 501.
In reply to Devin
14% of Sri Lara's test runs were scored @ARG..
In reply to Khaga
Not only the flattest track in the world, but a ground that didn't meet international standards in terms of size.
In reply to Khaga
lara was a better batsman than Kohli at this stage. there really isnt any comparison if you are objective and not blinded by man love
In reply to DevinBotham said it, he is not great yet as ViV, until he score a hundred in England.
In reply to sudden
Based on what exactly? Stats? The eye-test? Strokeplay? Technique?
In reply to londoner
Are you suggesting that all it would take is one century in England for Kohli to be deemed greater than Viv? That is a very low bar and rather disrespectful to Viv.
In reply to Devin
Ian Bottom is unable to take the buggering his team is getting..
In reply to sudden
After 52 matches, Lara averaged 51.36 with 10 100's, including the 375.
After 52 matches, Kohli averages 50.53 with 15 100's.
Three years and 23 matches later, Lara's average would dip to 48.29 with 15 centuries.
In reply to Khaga
JahJah says buggering, and getting buggered can make you lose your mind.
In reply to sudden
Sudden, you, Nick2020, and all the others on this board can't really state why your heroes are better than Kohli or other great batsmen. They just are. Basically what you're saying is that no one will ever be greater than Viv or Lara, and if they are, it has to be a West Indian.
Viv was greater than Lara, but Sobers was greater than Viv, etc etc.
In reply to Devin
sudden always shows his guts..no brain
In reply to Khaga
There is no connoisseur of cricket who would at this stage place Kohli in front of Lara as the better batsman.
In reply to Devin
Ever heard of Freddie Trueman, John Snow, Bob Willis or Ian Botham?
In reply to sudden
You're putting forth a strong argument.
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In reply to sudden
Kohli at 52 Tests and Lara at 75 Tests had the same number of centuries. Care to explain?
Do you watch Kohli bat? Have you seen any of his knocks at length?
In reply to Fivestar
Yeah, what about them? Botham is Ben Stokes with less pace.
In reply to Devin
sudden is the Bim version of jahjah..
In reply to Khaga
Maybe, apart from the buggering and swedish massages.
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Now imagine Chappell and Imran Khan are making these statements and comparisons at a time when Kohli was averaging 44 in Test cricket with no double centuries to his name.
Lara called Kohli the best batsman in the world across all formats at a similar time. That's when Root was averaging 10 or 11 more runs per innings.
Caller on Mason said all this talk about Kohli, Gavaskar is the best Indian batsman he has seen. He then repeated virtually everything I said in the first post.
Kohli whilst having a great year in India mostly is not there yet. He may get there if he does not play in England
In reply to sudden
stick to cawmere and silly girly arguments with powen and leff cricket for real fans!
In reply to sudden
After he lights up England in England, then what? What bar will you set? What loophole will you find?
Lara did dick all against England home and away after they moved on from Caddick, Frasier, Lewis and the lot.
From 2000 onwards, home and away:
50, 6, 5, 13, 112, 4, 2, 0, 47, 23, 0, 0, 8, 36, 33, 400*, 11, 44, 95, 13, 0, 7, 79, 15.
24 innings, 2 tons, 3 50's, 4 ducks.
Lo and behold, I decided to look at the scorecard for the match in which he scored 112 in England.
Gough, Caddick, Cork, someone named White, Croft.
He scored 112 in the 2nd innings after the great Campbell and Griffith both scored 50's, Adams scored 50-odd, and Ambrose was not out on 36.
First innings Lara scored 13 out of a total of 157. 13 from 74 deliveries.
In reply to sudden
BTW:
Kohli in Australia - 62 average
in South Africa - 68 average
In New Zealand - 71 average
In reply to Devin
Sri Lara was part of arleast 2 sub-100 team total collapses in that period against England..and arleast 2 against Australia in his career..
What did Anderson say about Kohli that upset him so?
In reply to Khaga
He once had consecutive scores of 2, 1, 2, 2 and 9 down under.
Next time he visited Australia:
0, 4, 0, 17.
In reply to sudden
It didn't upset Kohli, it upset Ashwin.
Can you tell me why Lara is better than Kohli and why Kohli can't be compared to Lara.
I just showed you that Ian Chappell and Imran Khan have compared certain aspects of their games, and Kohli comes out on top for Chappell. It's not an overall comparison, but in terms of timing, placement, and finding gaps.
Also, why is it that Kohli is compared to Tendulkar and Lara by outsiders(non-Indians), yet Smith, Root and Williamson aren't compared to them, or any greats really?
In reply to sudden
If we compare eras like that then it follows irrefutably that today's bowlers such as Steyn are better than Marshall, Garner,Holding etc?
I would ask you if you agree, but there's no option for you, but to agree.
In reply to Verstehen
I was waiting a while longer to make that point.
Dale Steyn must be the greatest fast bowler of all time given his record on all these docile pitches around the world and the humongous bats he has to defeat.
In reply to Devin
I made that argument earlier and many times in the past..Dufuses were stumped!
In reply to Verstehen, Devin & Khaga
Why alyuhn tekking on this Bajan trouble maker?
He is simply spinning the wheels to get alyuh riled up.
He like to talk about the Bajan bench foor Guyanes and now the Bim government begging for Guyanese to go farm in Bim.
SMH.
In reply to anandgb
Why do you think we are riled up? We are exposing the rasshole cricket fans who don't know anything about cricket..
In reply to Khaga
I don't expect any more responses. Perhaps someone will come along and call me an ass for comparing Kohli to Lara.
In reply to Devin
Where is Chrissy?
She normally get all excited when England gets beaten. Now not a peep from her?
Does that say she hates India more than pommie land?
In reply to anandgb
Barbados was so much more fun when Guyanese were there. The place has been dead for years.
In reply to anandgb
Black West Indians don't like whites or Indians so they're in a real pickle at a time like this. But yes, it appears the dislike towards Indians is greater.
In reply to anandgb
I haven't seen you praise Kohli..not that you have to..you seem to be in the deplorables' basket on this one..
In reply to Khaga
I like kohli quite a lot. He is fast becoming a legend.
even Sarwan at this stage was comparable to Kholi. Sarwan wasnt built for the long haul but he made runs in England unlike this new pretender
In reply to anandgb
what do you know Adjunct. the Bim government? show me where that happened? so misinformed.
In reply to Verstehen
Do you think Steyn is better than Marshall?
In reply to sudden
Nice try. Sarwan scored runs in England but ran like a chicken shit in Australia. At the same stage(52 matches) he had 7 tons and averaged under 41.
discount this feather bed pitch series in India, what was Kholi's average?
In reply to sudden
Since these are feather bed pitches, why are the English struggling to make runs even after winning 3 out of 4 tosses and batting first?
He was averaging 45 odd if I'm not mistaken.
He averages 62 in Australia, 68 in South Africa, and 71 in New Zealand. Feather bed pitches there as well? Name the bouncy tracks on which Lara scored runs?
In reply to sudden
Why is Kohli compared to Viv, Sachin, Lara, and at times Ponting?
Why do all four of those players rate Kohli the highest?
In reply to Dukes
No. I was just pointing to friend sudden how false equivalence and superficial logic inexorably descends into farce- at best.
answer the bloody question. what was his average before this Kholi made pitches series?
45 average. those pitches were designed for Kholi to get his average above 50 and satisfy his sycophants. it worked. here you are
In reply to sudden
He averages 62 in Australia, 68 in South Africa, and 71 in New Zealand. Feather bed pitches there as well? Name the bouncy tracks on which Lara scored runs?
and yet before this feather bed series he was averaging 45...45. hahaha. i hope he doesnt go to Eng next. Anderson will be waiting
In reply to sudden
I'll tell you something right now, he will hammer England in England the next time around. I think they square off next year.
In reply to sudden
I'm waiting for you to tell me where Lara scored his runs? Why didn't he ever score a ton against Donald and Pollock, Wasim and Waqar, or Shane Bond? Why did he average 40.24 from 1996-2001(43 Tests)?
Can you explain Lara's numbers vs England from 2000 onwards?
In reply to Devin
yes he very well might but lets wait and see. you are excited because he has taken advantage of this feather bed series. good for him. one must make hay whilst the sun shine.
In reply to sudden
Lara scored all his runs on feather beds. 9 of Kohli's 15 tons have come away from home.
In reply to sudden
I'm not excited about anything, I predicted early on in the year that most of these things would happen.
In reply to Devin
You should not be painting everyone with the same brush,then you are getting to their level. I have two friends who were both excellent cricketers who predicted greatness for Virat before he had five test hundreds to his name. I think its an exercise in futility comparing players from different eras because its all very subjective. For those of us who love great batting , we simply sit back and give thanks that we were blessed to have seen them all. Sachin Lara, Aravinda and now Virat what an absolute treat.
In reply to Devin... why you surprise when you making statements like these
In reply to natty_forever
Kohli this and Kohli that..
Carl Hooper would make Kohli look like a village cricketer...
There prettiest batsman ever was Sir Carl.
In reply to Bigzinc... well the man not just talking about looks ...
In reply to natty_forever
Well with all this adoration, one could be mistaken.. Head over heels
In reply to NYCGURU
I didn't start the thread you know. When they diminish or question, that's when I compare.
In reply to NYCGURU
Diminishing is a two way street,bro!
is Kholi traveling with the Indian team to England?
In reply to sudden
You think Kohli is Lara? "Cricket is ruining my life." Then two weeks later put on a panty and whine for Carnival.
Or better yet, it's too hot in the kitchen so can Wavel or Shiv bat ahead of me. Shiv, all of 22 on his first tour to Australia had to bat ahead of Lara in the last two Tests.
Kohli is a man, son. He doesn't run and hide, nor does he make excuses.
In reply to NYCGURU
BTW Aravinda is one of my all time favourites.
In reply to sudden
Btw I know you're not following the series, but all the commentators happen to think that these are generally fair pitches and certainly not batting paradises.
That's probably why three of the four tests yielded results.
Funny enough, the first Test was played on a real belter, a match in which there were six centurions, four of them English. Kohli scored 40 and 49* in the 2nd innings to save India in the end.
His centuries came in matches which India won. A real feather bed rarely produces a result. For example, Lara's runs in Antigua.
Since that first Test draw which yielded 4 centuries from English players, they've only been able to score one ton from the following three Tests, and that was by the debutant Keaton Jennings. Probably a case of forgetting how to bowl because you've never seen this chap before.
Since that first Test, Kohli has scored two tons, Pujara 1, Vijay 1, and Yadav 1.
Have a look at other batting greats of the modern era: Kane Williamson, Joe Root, and Steven Smith are the other three batsmen along with Virat Kohli who form the quartet of the modern greats. Kane Williamson, the Kiwi captain has shown his special liking to Number 3.
His form at number three has been instrumental in the rise of New Zealand cricket. Joe Root is our long-term Number 3, England Head Coach Trevor Bayliss had said. Trevor Bayliss sees Joe Root as their number three. Steve Smith, the Australian Captain, had a lot of success batting one down against India last summer. Though he was tested against the likes of Stuart Broad and James Anderson in English conditions but still, he has the game to make Australia the world-beaters once again.
In reply to sudden
It's a matter of comfort. He is in Tendy's slot, while Pujara plays a poor man's Rahul Dravid.
In the near future, India may even play three openers; Shikhar Dhawan, Vijay, KL Rahul.
There is no need for Kohli to bat at three, especially since India are on a historic unbeaten streak.
He bats at three in ODI'S and T20's.
BTW Root's only significant away ton(South Africa) came batting at #4.
In reply to Devin
In reply to sudden
Lara batted at #3 66 times.
He batted at #4 148 times.
He made sure he made it count at #3 though, he was very selective.
In reply to sudden
He is leading from the front. He walks to the wicket with the score on 22/2 and scores 167.
Like I said, India are on a historic run, no need to tamper with anything. Pujara has fantastic numbers batting at home, not so much away. Maybe Kohli will consider batting at #3 away from home if Pujara's struggles continue.
In reply to Devin
How many times did Sobers bat @ #3? Didn't he use to hide at #5 and #6 ala Shiv?
Sobers was an allrounder. they typically bat in the lower middle order. altho some are known to bat higher. is Kholi a bowler a la Sobers?
wuh loss muh belly
In reply to Khaga
Not many, he preferred the #6 position.
In reply to Devin
All rounder my ass! Being the side's best batsman and being the best on Earth and Mars (as peeps on here like to gloat), he should've been batting at #3..
In reply to sudden
Sobers averaged 34 with the ball and had a strike rate of over 92. I now see why some rate Kallis higher.
Speaking of Kallis, where did he bat? And he didn't bowl spin like Sobers.
In reply to sudden
Lara batted at #4 148 times. What was he bowling?
Sudden, I'm still waiting for you to explain a number of things. Stop wasting fu#king time dilly-dallying all over the place and trying to obfuscate.
Why did Lara average 40.24 from 1996-2001 over 43 Tests(1/3 of his career)?
Why did Lara have such poor numbers vs England from 2000 onwards?
Why is Lara a better batsman than Kohli?
Why did Lara's two highest Test scores come on the flattest track known to man, and a ground the size of a billiards table?
In reply to Devin
You really think sudden nah know which of those two are the greatest? There is a reason he is not answering you 100%....btw I would put Gordon Greenidge as being better than Lara....
In reply to WestDem
Garner told me Kallicharran was way better than Lara..
In reply to WestDem
I rate Shiv higher than Lara in terms of courage. Shiv almost lost his life to Brett Lee and didn't even consider leaving the field. Lara got hit by Shoaib in an ODI and left the field, didn't bother to return.
Lara sent Shiv to bat at #3 in the last two Tests down under during the 96/97 series.
Then when McGrath was all over him like a cheap suit years later, he had Hinds batting at #3 for him.
In reply to Khaga
That's because Kallicharan was a man's man.
In reply to Devin
You and I know that Kallicharan is a nobody compared to Virat.
In reply to Khaga
Kalli would have been mentioned as a WI great if he was not abandoned by dem money hawkers...look at his stint at Warwickshire after getting kicked to de curb!
In reply to WestDem
No doubt. In my book, he is a WI great..
In reply to Devin
Did Lara ever play for 'de' TEAM? and people call Shiv, Selfishpaul....the only die hard supporter of Shiv was imusic!
In reply to WestDem
Yuh heard what girly man Gayle said? Lara was shitting himself when Gayle was on 300-odd.
In reply to Devin
Yes I remember him saying how Lara was nervous and only started peeking scared after he reached 300....
yesterday on Mason whilst they were discussing Kholi and test batsmen, Reds Perreira said the best test batsman he has ever seen was Sobers. Sobers becos he dominated bowlers. Sobers becos he put fear in bowlers. Sobers becos he inspired his partners who were usually tailenders.
i take it that Reds has never seen other batsmen fron India or Oz or Eng or SA or did i mention India
In reply to sudden
Reds on Mason show has to praise Sobers..He will call Andre show and say Lara was the best..
In reply to sudden
Did Reds not also state that Kallis is de greatest all rounder ever?
In reply to sudden
Reds is so senile that he can only remember three names: Sobers, someone named Robert Christiani, and Sobers.
BTW they had multiple discussions about Kohli and Gavaskar on Mason and Guest. Imagine that, a Bajan cricket talk show program that deals with Bajan and West Indian cricket, discussing Sunny Bhai and the God, Virat.
Are you guys comparing Lara's entire test career to Kohli's at this time?
BTW, it is hard to compare era.
What I can say is Kohli is among the best of this time, and Lara was among the best of his era.
I wait to see Kohli over-all stats, five years from now.
In reply to Devin
Mason getting back at de Bajans dem fuh overlooking his all time quickest bowler, Tino Best!
In reply to sudden
Sounds like Virat. He is the only batsman in the world that bowlers fear, apart from ABD. Since he's taken over the captaincy, Ashwin's batting has improved tremendously, with Jadeja and Jayant Yadav contributing regularly in the current series.
Hell, Kohli just shared in a 241-run partnership with India's #9 batsman.
Bowlers feared Sobers because he batted at #6 and by the time he walked out to the middle, they were already exhausted.
In reply to sudden
Why was a certain Bajan caller so angry that Gavaskar's name is not mentioned as often as it should be? Mason and guests had to pacify the older gentlemen, he was rather irate.
BTW Reds said Christiani is the best he saw.
wuh loss. a lot of gyrations going. Reds being disparaged. muh belly
Kind of like how Hooper is the best thing Bajans have ever seen.
In reply to Devin
must be analyst-kid..he is a big Gavaskar fan! I respect many Bajans,they know cricket rather well..I am suspecting sudden's Bajanity..
In reply to sudden
We're just having fun with you man. But can you answer any of my questions regarding Lara?
In reply to Devin
Bro, don't compare Sir Gary to any cricketer.
Batting was only 25% of his greatness.
In reply to openning
75% of his greatness in his shirt's collar which was twisted up,apparently!
In reply to Devin
I was on vacation in SVG and was fortunate enough to see the only Test played at that venue against Sri Lanka. Hooper got eighty plus in the first innings and Lara got a hundred in the second innings. Everything paled in comparison to the majesty of Aravinda on the go. His strokeplay was simply the stuff of genius.He was my alltime favorite.
In reply to Khaga
bet yuh if Kholi's style was slapping his partner on ass, you would be sore from Devin's slaps
In reply to Khaga
South Africans, Englighmen, Aussies, Indians walked like him, and dress like him.
That what happened when you are great
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didnt realise it was that bad. wow
In reply to Khaga
Oh Christ have mercy. I'm dying right now.
In reply to Khaga
man, I saw the Indians surrender to Bim
In reply to sudden
Kohli made up for it by delivering an ICC Champion's Trophy, in England.
52 matches and one blemish on his record, not bad at all Virat, not bad at all.
In reply to openning
????
In reply to tc1
Keep that stored in your memory bank, because it won't happen ever again.
In reply to Devin
tc1 is a cool dinosaur worth preserving..
Will Sudden answer any questions asked about Lara? Can he at least tell me why Lara is greater than Kohli?
In reply to sudden
Just looked up Misinfo for some Test Stats for INDIA cricket....after 52 Tests played by Kohli in a career started in 2011 when he failed miserable to start his career....
Currently he is the 13th highest run scorer, has the 5th highest career batting average, 9th most tons, #14 in 50+ scores, part owner of 4th and 8th wicket partnership and there are more to list bu I am tired!!!
Edit - in 21 test as captain...he won 13, lost 2 and drawn 6....61.9% as de winning Cappo! I don't think Lara have this much wins in his three stint as Cappo...
In reply to WestDem
Lara didn't have that many wins in his entire career, captaincy or no captaincy.
Now we have Sudden googling Virat's name madly. Searching for anything he can find. Meanwhile, I can pull up every other series Lara played to expose him.
Kholi managed to make some runs on pitches as dead as Surya's dick and you squirting all over Khaga's dhoti
In reply to Devin
Lara captained de WI 47 times winning 10, losing 26 and drawing 11...one of the 11 draws are is due to his determined inning of 400*....
In reply to sudden
In reply to sudden
Oh oh, did we hit a nerve? Now you have to get racial. Tsk tsk.
6 pages and you can't answer a question I've asked. Let me leave the thread before it gets really ugly.
In reply to WestDem
In reply to Devin
Sammy, yes the same Sammy dat everyone cursed out and call him all kinda names...won 8 Test matches as cappo outta 30...Richie won 11 outta de 24 he captained...Lara is truly GREAT, a great loser at dat!
In reply to sudden
These days most teams have 4 or 5 frontline bowlers, unlike in the past. You wont see much of Butcher, Joey Carew, Lloyd, Border, Waugh, etc. bowling.
Most bowling units are better prepared against the opposition than in years gone by. They walk onto the field with a plan for each batsman,and a creative field placement
Bowlers these days are more accurate and probably faster.
Wickets in Australia and Windies look slower than in the past, however.
"He's probably the most sought-after man in world cricket at the minute. I didn't want to miss that opportunity. Within a couple of minutes he came out. He was great. He said 'I'm happy to do that, now or later, whenever you want'. He was very obliging.
In reply to WestDem
Better Hameed and Moeen than Emir and Halliwell..
In reply to Devin
gutter sudden showing his class..
I know one previous West Indian Captain who will never support this....There are about 400 reasons I can give as to why Kohli is 100% correct!
Out went Anushka and in walked new team director Ravi Shastri - the transition hardly pumping up Kohli on the field. So, even as Rahane and Dhawan credited Shastri for inspiring the team and infusing confidence, the Delhi batsman barely managed to camouflage his poor form behind the shadows cast by India's ODI triumphs.
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