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Jamaica's Crime Problem

 
Headley 2017-01-02 09:03:29 

The PM says he is confident Jamaica's crime problem can be controlled. I am not sure what he means by 'controlled' and I always get 'frighten' when big brain politicians use words like 'enhance' and 'control' but all I can do is hope for a miracle. The lack of detail is disconcerting but ah hoping is a strategic omission.

In de mean time the 'commissioner in waiting' says we should not expect miracles.

Yuh si mi dyin' trial? lol rolleyes cry

 
camos 2017-01-02 09:06:05 

In reply to Headley


you have to agree with Anju , it can only be controlled not eliminated.

 
nitro 2017-01-02 09:17:37 

In reply to Headley

The word out of Jamaica is that the huge criminal gangs have infiltraded the police force to such an extent that a large percentage of the force are criminals. So now they are in the political parties and the law enforcement arm of government.

Only a revolution can save Jamaica but our people have become afraid and weak.

 
Headley 2017-01-02 09:28:52 

In reply to camos

Dat is true but nowadays we realise politicians smart. A little indicator to measure 'control' would be useful (10% reduction in murders or 15% higher conviction rate for example).

Four years from now when Anju claim the problem has been 'controlled', skeptics like Fanman and some Mona folks will jus ridicule the claim. big grin

Don't forget, Anju is a graduate in Management Studies. The use of indicators to measure success is him 'bread an butter'.

Should military men commit a division to 'battle' without a basis for measuring success? big grin

 
Headley 2017-01-02 09:30:16 

In reply to nitro

When Anju was campaigning dat was not de message.

 
nitro 2017-01-02 09:36:18 

In reply to Headley

Anju could not say that. He learned from his unfortunate bitter medicine pronouncements.

 
Ewart 2017-01-02 09:38:47 

In reply to Headley



Well, him better hurry up and change that sentence to Jamaica's Crime problem WILL be controlled.


... and then tell us when that will happen.



//

 
Headley 2017-01-02 09:40:27 

In reply to nitro

bitter medicine pronouncements


Dat is what I was telling Camus above. Anju might be 'sugar coating' and 'enhancing'. lol lol

 
Headley 2017-01-02 09:43:47 

In reply to Ewart

... and then tell us when that will happen.



No completion time. Dat is a no-no for a management man. 10% reduction in murders by 2019 would be a statement we could take seriously.


BTW What are your reflections on the statement of the 'commissioner in waiting' apparently in church and in the company of Reverend Devon Dick that we should not expect miracles? big grin

 
nitro 2017-01-02 09:51:35 

In reply to Headley

The crime appears to be up everywhere there is a large Jamaican population. Broward county is out of control.

 
CWWeekes 2017-01-02 12:24:13 

17 year old Calabar/Melbourne cricketer one of early victims of 2017.Very sad.

 
XDFIX 2017-01-02 12:28:04 

In reply to Headley

Most of the crimes committed in Jamaica are by poor, uneducated, unskilled, and unemployed young men between the ages of 17-35 - that's the root of the problem!
A few suggestions re solution include:
The mobilization of a social movement against crime led by women and a strong media campaign to accompany same.
More education and jobs for the populace should be the pursuit and top priority of the government!
The army should be transformed into policing for a 10 year period, they may then resort to their original position.
The urban areas should be infested with cameras.
A better court system and prison facilities should be put in place.
Civil society and religious groups should be more trans-formative in their outreach.
Ban the gunmanship and galmanship music that esteem the use of guns and denigrate the value of women!

 
Ewart 2017-01-02 13:31:53 

In reply to Headley

What she said was: "Please, don't look to me to create the world in seven days. I never claimed to have that power ... . And I will not be working any miracles, except that miracle comes from the people of Jamaica to renew their hearts and their minds and attitudes to become our brother's keeper in the truest sense of the word, by following the example of the Samaritan."

National Security Ministers from both sides of the political divide have now basically left it up to "divine intervention," so an incoming Commissioner would be foolish to say she can/will work miracles.

And there will be no miracles or divine intervention unless the Government of Jamaica - in this case Anju - does the following:

1. Declare absolute war on Crime and establish it as their number one priority the same way as the economy has been the number one priority.

2. Put MONEY behind it. If it takes IMF money, so be it.

3. The police force, quite apart from corruption, is woefully understaffed! That must change.

4. Train soldiers in civil/police activity and combine JDF and JCF.

But nothing is going to happen until government and opposition agree to UNITE under the anti-crime banner and declare a NATIONAL WAR against crime.

There. I said it.


//

 
NYCGURU 2017-01-02 14:06:26 

In reply to CWWeekes

Beyond sad. The world has a lot of callous individuals who have no regard for human life.

 
granite 2017-01-02 14:50:00 

Trinidad right on their heels.TT 1.3 million 400 murders,Jam 2.7 million 1192 in 2015. sad

 
bravos 2017-01-02 15:28:08 

In reply to granite

T&T had a terrible year but is still far away but can get worse as we know.

2016 T&T 32./100,000
2016 Jam 50./100,000


If T&T had Jamaica's 2016 rate we would've had 660+ ..(over 200 more)

If Jam had T&T's 2016 rate they would've had just over 900 and a relatively good year..(over 400 less)

If T&T had yard's 660+ it would've been by far our highest by over 100 and by over 8/100,000 ,yet it's still not Jamaica's highest.

Things are bad in T&T but we are in a much better position at this stage than our brothers and I would leave them to discuss their heartache and try to learn a thing or two as we deal with our own ills which thankfully we view as a major problem although it is still significantly less than our historic highs,and it is only this kind of consciousness and awareness can bring some control to the situation,we aware the horse trying to bolt and we concerned.

I believe with good management and foresight both T&T and Jamaica can progressively win this fight,but new thinking is the only way forward,proactive multifaceted laws and programs to fit,it is the only way,police can only do so much ,and had it not been for them things would've been much worse both in Jamaica and T&T..

The dynamics of our countries are very different,so it's no clear case across the board..familiar case but very different dynamics,causes and solutions. That's why a good year in Jamaica couple years ago is a bad year in T&T today..

I believe I know how ours can be fixed,but I'm not so clear on Jamaica's and make no claim to fully understand the dynamics of their problems,but I know ours well enough to be able to fully understand why it would not reach the levels of Jamaica,same way Bajans are confident that they would not reach the level of T&T,there's too much margin for outcry and response for that to happen in normal civic rule.

Case in point,look at Jamaica when the Govt initiated decisive action on Dudus and criminals on the whole,it was one of their best years in recent history and the effects actually influenced subsequent years,ok now look at Kamala's S.O.E,the results were phenomenal also and had the same effects for a couple years after,but no one really dissected it and took anything from it to maintain the momentum,no one filled the gaps that they're frantically trying to fill now,but we shall prevail!


For some perspective and awareness,the difference between Jamaica's and T&T's 2016 murder rate is equivalent to Mexico's murder rate.

 
Chrissy 2017-01-02 15:38:17 

In reply to Headley

Don't mek mi play the pre-election tape yuh hear.

Look right through Christmas young men were robbing people in and out of their cars in this 'uptown' neighbourhood. It ended New Years Morning when a young man was stabbed and killed because he wouldn't hand over his phone and jewelry.

The evening before Christmas Eve a young lady let off two friends and did not relock her doors. In seconds two of dem were in her car- they stole her bag, her phone etc. until some of my neighbours took them on. Yes traffic was moving that slowly that they saw what was going on and ran out to help the young lady.

Now they have the five robbers/murderers - or so dem seh.

 
Headley 2017-01-02 15:43:51 

In reply to nitro

Broward county is out of control.


I spend a lot of time in Broward. I will be there next week. Most of my relatives live there. I am not aware that crime is out of control. One of my very close relatives is a cop. He must have forgotten to tell me. big grin

 
Headley 2017-01-02 15:58:17 

In reply to XDFIX

I think you have the cause right and your most of your solutions seem practicable. The question then is why haven't they been implemented?

 
Headley 2017-01-02 16:01:48 

In reply to CWWeekes

17 year old Calabar/Melbourne cricketer one of early victims of 2017.Very sad.


Sad is just the start of what needs to be expressed. It was preceded by the death of the JC youth not two months ago.

 
XDFIX 2017-01-02 16:21:00 

In reply to Headley

I think you have the cause right and your most of your solutions seem practicable. The question then is why haven't they been implemented?


The Caribbean leaders have always been big on talks, reports, and 9 days' wonder, but small on action - bag a mouth, in other words!

 
Headley 2017-01-02 16:27:51 

In reply to Ewart

1. Declare absolute war on Crime and establish it as their number one priority the same way as the economy has been the number one priority. YES

2. Put MONEY behind it. If it takes IMF money, so be it. YES

3. The police force, quite apart from corruption, is woefully understaffed! That must change. YES

4. Train soldiers in civil/police activity. YES

and combine JDF and JCF - A strong NO.

But nothing is going to happen until government and opposition agree to UNITE under the anti-crime banner and declare a NATIONAL WAR against crime. YES


I have been saying what you have as number 1 for about ten years now. In fact I have said more. I have made the point that all the other investments are like building on sinking sand. Crime is like a 25 - 40 percent tax on the economy and then we can start to discuss the social and other aspects.

If a quarter of the Jamaicans abroad decided it was safe to retire at home can you appreciate the economic consequences?

Maybe now that the devine intervention option has been exhausted we will focus on earthly remedies.

 
Chrissy 2017-01-02 18:27:13 

In reply to Headley

Listen men and women giving demselves top of di line SUVs and giving di cops second hand cars from dem Second Hand Dealerships.
Williams knows why he walked out.

 
Headley 2017-01-02 19:06:24 

In reply to Chrissy

The issue of vehicles for the police has always been a major problem for successive governments. But the problem is really a lack of imagination.

Since government does not pay duty on motor vehicles (estimated at 70 - 120 % in Ja) it is possible for government to buy a vehicle then sell it after three years (duty paid) and recoup the total cost. (Government is not set up to maintain anything. If all the procedures are followed it could take 60 - 90 days to buy a spark plug.) Keeping or owning a government vehicle after three years is therefore madness.

I wouldn't bother to comment on the purchase of second hand vehicles. Fortunately in Jamaica we have a history of sending government ministers to jail.

 
XDFIX 2017-01-02 19:41:52 

60 minutes

The violence in Chicago is so pervasive that Father Michael Pfleger, a priest with the largest Catholic congregation on the South Side, isn’t waiting for a savior — he’s taking it upon himself to find murderers by offering rewards for information leading to an arrest.

Since last New Year’s Day, more than 700 people have been murdered and more than 4,000 people shot. The death toll is so high that it’s driving up the murder rate for America’s biggest cities.

This week on 60 Minutes, correspondent Bill Whitaker and a team of producers — Guy Campanile, Andy Bast, and Michael Radutzky — tell the story of that violence. The situation on the city’s South Side is so dangerous that some cops advised Campanile to wear a bulletproof vest when filming at night.

He refused.

“It bothered me that I had to wear body armor in an American city,” Campanile tells 60 Minutes Overtime’s Ann Silvio in the video above. “We’re not talking about a third-world country. We’re not talking about some war zone in the Middle East. We’re talking about Chicago, Illinois.”

 
che 2017-01-02 20:49:22 

In reply to XDFIX

CHICAGO -- One of the most violent years in Chicago history ended with a sobering tally: 762 homicides, the most in two decades in the city and more than New York and Los Angeles combined.

Dang!!!
Jamrock 1300+ more than Chi town, New Jack City and LA combined!!

Bah 155
Guy 140
Bim 21
SVG 40
St Lu 35
St. Kitts 42
T&T 465

Black on black crime wasting a generation of yutes.

 
Headley 2017-01-03 08:24:22 

In reply to che

The numbers clearly show the seriousness of the problem. How could this situation not command greater attention and resources? The latest suggestion is that there are foreigners who have a solution that local intelligence cannot decipher.

The inability of successive administrations to effectively curb this problem is a demonstration of misdirected resources at the very least. It could also be a failure to appreciate that the problem will eventually affect all families in spite of the insulation and contacts we may have.

 
Headley 2017-01-04 07:44:49 

The new police commissioner will be required to provide performance targets and work on contract, National Security Minister Robert Montague revealed yesterday.

In fact, all officers being promoted to the ranks of deputy and assistant commissioners will be asked to sign contracts in what is an apparent move by the Government to streamline accountability levels in the police force.


This could be a step in the right direction if the members of the PSC are prepared to stand up to the politicians. The devil is always in the details and with politicians there is always another round of details to follow. I commend them for making some changes and proposing to use the talent in the force.

Link here

 
bravos 2017-01-04 09:37:54 

In reply to che

You sure about St.Kitts? that would put them really really high at over 80/100,000 ? Nah man..although they don;t even have 100,000...but you know..

 
Yamfoot 2017-01-04 11:33:03 

It needs a social intervention.

Fix housing, put all school leavers not enrolled in studies, inna 2 year skills and social skills training course then put them to apprentice somewhere. Companies who take apprentices to get some tax relief.

Thr answer is not more policemen. Thry also need to improve the justice system.

 
camos 2017-01-04 11:51:04 

In reply to Yamfoot
more police is part of the solution, people that get away with crime commit more crime.

 
Yamfoot 2017-01-04 13:01:00 

In reply to camos

Well maybe it should read more police with better investigative capability to solve crime. I believe our percentage is very low.

 
Headley 2017-01-04 13:26:14 

In reply to Yamfoot

put all school leavers not enrolled in studies, inna 2 year skills and social skills training course then put them to apprentice somewhere.


Is this a compulsory programme? I believe it would need to be.

This is an idea which a lot of us have been shying away from but I believe it addresses the crime prevention aspect in a way which all the other suggested remedies do not.

 
Yamfoot 2017-01-04 13:48:10 

In reply to Headley

Yes. Compulsory

 
che 2017-01-04 15:38:49 

In reply to Yamfoot

You best posts!!!

De yardie politician dem haffi transition u into de cabinet

lol lol lol

 
Yamfoot 2017-01-04 18:15:19 

In reply to che

I had actually written to Peter Phillips when he was Security minister. Must see if I still have the letter and post here.

 
Yamfoot 2017-01-04 18:26:47 

In reply to Yamfoot

Ok I posted it on another thread

 
bravos 2017-01-04 19:06:56 

In reply to che

You still toting feelings like a big mamma man? I asked you a question biatch..

 
bravos 2017-01-04 19:11:24 

In reply to Headley

We need electronic and other monitoring/supervision of those on bail with a parole system also ,make men wanta conform to reintegrate,show us you ready and we watching you..any violation and yuh lorse in jail..

 
Headley 2017-01-04 19:32:23 

In reply to bravos

Yes these are well tested methods to encourage behaviour change but to date they remain at the level of ideas. It's almost as if our leaders were thinking it would get better or deteriorate no further without having to make tough decisions about resource allocation.

I am no expert but I believe 20-40 cameras placed at major intersections could tell you where 90 -100% of the vehicles are located in each town in Ja except Kingston which would require more cameras.

BTW I believe Che's stats for St. Kitts are correct.

 
Headley 2017-01-05 08:10:02 

Security Minister Robert Montague is promising that the country will see fundamental changes in the Government’s fight against crime during the course of 2017.



These measures could have made a significant reduction in the problem in 1990. In 2017 they will make a small dent in the problem. We are not dealing with a pothole. This is a chasm.

Boats and planes need expensive and timely maintenance resources. Our maintenance problem is worse than our crime problem.

The compulsory skills training programme mentioned by one poster for 16 - 18 year olds is vital to deal with the preventative aspect of the problem. If we are producing 3-4 criminals per day and reforming or eliminating 2-3 ... you get the drift.

 
nitro 2017-01-05 08:46:54 

In reply to Headley

One major reason for the spike in crime sinc the late 90s maybe due to the violent dancehall culture.

 
Headley 2017-01-05 09:19:00 

In reply to nitro

violent dancehall culture


Ok. Let's discuss.

1.What do you personally know about the violent dancehall culture?
2.What have you ever seen as opposed to heard of violence at dancehalls?
3.BTW do know what is a dancehall?

 
nitro 2017-01-05 09:29:57 

In reply to Headley

Im referring to the music genre. The lyrics of the likes of Vibes Kartel etc.

 
nitro 2017-01-05 11:25:50 

In reply to Headley

The media is just as culpable as the foul mouth artists as they play their music on radio, even a convicted murderer.

 
che 2017-01-05 16:00:18 

In reply to Headley

BTW I believe Che's stats for St. Kitts are correct.

Po Po seh homicides in Bim dong!!!

 
Headley 2017-01-07 11:46:43 

In reply to nitro

You may be right but I am hesitant to comment here. Experts disagree about the correlation and I am not even 50% of an expert. It may be an indirect link but the extreme lyrics certainly don't help.

I have an interesting comment to make but I am deliberately waiting another day or two. You will see why.

 
Headley 2017-01-07 12:02:14 

In reply to che

Che bwoy ah fraid bozee. Crime stats are not a matter that Bimsters like to discuss openly.

Since Commissioner Durant (late 80s to 90s) every year the stats are the same or better than the year before. By now there should be no crime. Yuh see why a fraid? big grin

If ah mek any progress wid Ja, ah go try mi han at Bim. big grin

 
che 2017-01-07 18:35:25 

In reply to Headley

By now there should be no crime.
lol

Dawg...United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime and International Police Association hagree wid Bim po po homicides flat fi moons ... in tit turd math Bim unlawful killings 7 per 100,000..JA 55 per 100,000

Aiite!!! cool