Ok, religious folks....

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link Drapsey Joined: Dec 26, 2007
Posts: 17355
1/5/17 12:46:10 PM 
In reply to Ayenmol

The Israelites were a people chosen from Bloodline. Direct descendants of Abraham. They were selected as a people separate from others and given a set of laws to protect them from false religions of the time until the Messiah who would come through that bloodline.

So, they have been chosen. You and I aren't. Story done!

Your continued aspiration appears to be doomed in futility.

link nick2020 Joined: Jul 2, 2012
Posts: 16732
1/5/17 12:48:07 PM 
In reply to pelon

I will not even attempt at engaging black and snoop so here we go:

Why does black feel a need to persecute religion? The Bible has a consistent theme of the righteous being persecuted for their beliefs and black is playing the role perfectly. If I believed in the Bible these attacks would be quite prophetic and reinforce my views.

I believe there are two choices we have in life:

1. Pull ourselves us
2. Push everyone else down

I am always trying to find the answer to the enigma of life. I do it by studying, thinking and engaging. Ridiculing someone's beliefs only will make someone feel better about himself but not actually be any better off.

Science nor Religion explains to me origins. I wonder if we will ever understand it. It is so difficult to comprehend the beginning and the inevitable question of what comes before the beginning.

No one has the answer so why mock someone who finds comfort in one of his choosing?

link SnoopDog Joined: Jan 24, 2004
Posts: 5705
1/5/17 12:56:21 PM 
In reply to nick2020

Of course it is right and incumbent on every right thinking rational person to mercilessly mock religion and it's endless stream of nonsense and stupidity.


For millennia religion has played a part in being a source of authority to subjugate and repress humanity and reason. Mocking religion was one of the first steps to emancipation from it's authority and it's claim that it was the source of all the answers to the questions about the natural world.


Jesus fcuking Christ, I can't believe I still have to explain this shyte to people here. rolleyes

link pelon Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 5476
1/5/17 12:57:35 PM 
In reply to nick2020
1. Pull ourselves us or 2. Push everyone else down


Fundamentally, I stand on the 1st option.

I don't think black et al. sets out to really mock anyone, and in the same way - my questions to Ayenmol i hope, should not come over as a disrespect to his beliefs. 90% of the people in the Caribbean are religious - many deeply religious. To challenge religion in a disrespectful way is foolish, and in reality a from of self-hate.

On the other had, to challenge religion with points and counter points based on facts, even opinions.... sign me up all day. Even Mr. Snoop has added valuable contributions with his knock out punches....

You can't find a thread or a post where I mock someones opinion. You can find many where I challenge religious convention. So I agree with you completely.

So dear Nick, join the discussion now: Did you know of 'The Epic of Gilgamesh'?

link Ayenmol Joined: May 4, 2003
Posts: 7488
1/5/17 1:00:05 PM 
First off. The Story of the Flood was not penned by Noah, but by Moses centuries later.

The fact that there are many accounts of a flood like doom in various cultures is quite interesting.

Next Bloodline. Abraham was the one chosen because of his faith in God.

Someone was going to be chosen, it happened to be him. That does not mean he is the only one. Moses was chosen to lead Israel out of Egypt. Many prophets were chosen. Mary was chosen to be mother to Jesus, etc.

That shows that we can have a real relationship with God.

Back to the flood. Funny how you want to use these outside sources to deride the Bible instead of coming to the realization that maybe they are all stories of the same occurence? Like the one which flood is of a river? You know like how the Egyptians drowned in the Red Sea.

link SnoopDog Joined: Jan 24, 2004
Posts: 5705
1/5/17 1:01:50 PM 
In reply to pelon

There are still some religious nutbags out there who still believe the earth is flat!

They concede that the moon and the sun are round (because they could see it for themselves) but still believe that the earth is flying through space like a fcuking Frisbee.

link SnoopDog Joined: Jan 24, 2004
Posts: 5705
1/5/17 1:04:58 PM 
In reply to Ayenmol

The fact that there are many accounts of a flood like doom in various cultures is quite interesting.


"Interesting" as in you have no answer to the obvious contradiction to your biblical fairy-tale when facts are thrown into the mix. lol

link pelon Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 5476
1/5/17 1:06:41 PM 
In reply to Ayenmol

First off. The Story of the Flood was not penned by Noah, but by Moses centuries later.

The fact that there are many accounts of a flood like doom in various cultures is quite interesting.
Don't get clever and convenient, it is 'the word of god' so said Moses - and IF it is the word of god, how can it appear BEFORE Noah was born in EXACT detail? Moses placing Noah as the protagonist of the Great Flood is a plagiarism - and chronologically impossible.

It's like saying, 700 years from now that 'Lara the Great', scored 375 against England in 1476 in Miami

Won't make sense then, don't make sense now. 3/5 facts means you DISMISS. You have to be more objective and INVESTIGATIVE in your biblical scholarship.

link SnoopDog Joined: Jan 24, 2004
Posts: 5705
1/5/17 1:10:29 PM 
In reply to pelon

Don't get clever and convenient, it is the word of god so said Moses - and IF it is the word of god, how can it appear BEFORE Noah was born in EXACT detail? Moses placing Noah as the protagonist of the Great Flood is a plagarizim - and chronologically impossible.

It's like saying, 700 years from now that 'Lara the Great', scored 375 against England in 1476

Won't make sense then, don't make sense now. You have to be more objective in your biblical scholarship.


Bro, you'll have more luck (and fun) rationalizing religion, and contradictions found in the bible, with a cardboard box than with Jesus freaks.lol


Oil and water stuff. big grin

link pelon Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 5476
1/5/17 1:19:25 PM 
In reply to SnoopDog

Looking at conflicts and contradictions, surely even he can smell the rat on the Flood Story.

It takes a BRAVE person in the Caribbean, esp. in our smaller islands to 'challenge' the status quo and control methods have guided us for centuries. Having gained independence of thought, something our ancestors DID NOT HAVE, it only takes honest research (non-academic stuff) to say:
"Ok, is story A the same as story B"
No? .... case closed, no conflict
Yes? then which came first?
and...
(insert logic path)

link nick2020 Joined: Jul 2, 2012
Posts: 16732
1/5/17 1:40:30 PM 
In reply to SnoopDog

For millennia religion has played a part in being a source of authority to subjugate and repress humanity and reason.


That means you must mock any and everyone who believes in the ideology but has not personally done you a thing?

And that is logical to you?

I hope I do not pay for the sins of my fathers.

link black Joined: Feb 28, 2004
Posts: 24058
1/5/17 1:45:11 PM 
In reply to nick2020

I hope I do not pay for the sins of my fathers.


The bible says you will.

And, how is asking for clarification, mocking the bible and its followers?

link nick2020 Joined: Jul 2, 2012
Posts: 16732
1/5/17 1:48:03 PM 
In reply to pelon

I know the Epic of Gilgamesh. Was taught it in Civ 1 and enjoyed it so much that I took Civ 2. I really enjoyed his search for immortality but I figure you are leading me to the story of his flood.

It is of no coincidence that many civilizations in different time periods have stories attempting to make sense of our existence. Philosophers were today's scientists.

There are two types of people in the world. Did I mention this already?

1. Those who are searching for the answer
2. Those who could not be bothered

No one in this thread has the answer. Certainly not Snoop nor Black. I have asked before. They will tell you what ain't but not what is. I have said this before only to be ridiculed:

God self-created.
Matter self-created.

Seems the scientists and the religious believe in the same crazy notion.

link nick2020 Joined: Jul 2, 2012
Posts: 16732
1/5/17 1:53:31 PM 
In reply to black

The bible says you will.


What is the point in quoting from a text that you do not believe in? To prove an empty point?

link SnoopDog Joined: Jan 24, 2004
Posts: 5705
1/5/17 2:01:51 PM 
In reply to nick2020

No one in this thread has the answer. Certainly not Snoop nor Black.


Religion was humanity's first attempt to answer the complexities of life, the natural world and the universe. Since it was our first attempt it was also our most primitive and unsophisticated.

The age of the enlightenment and with it, the scientific method, represents our present more sophisticated attempt to answer the complexities of life, the natural world and the universe. No longer do we have to rely on ancient religious superstitions to understand how the tides work, the causes and cures of diseases, how and why certain creatures adapt to their environment, etc.

Science, and scientists, do not make the claim that they know everything. Only religion makes that absurd claim.

link SnoopDog Joined: Jan 24, 2004
Posts: 5705
1/5/17 2:03:32 PM 
In reply to nick2020

What is the point in quoting from a text that you do not believe in? To prove an empty point?


It's a thread about contradictions in the Bible. And he was merely pointing out one of yours (since you obviously missed it). wink big grin

link pelon Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 5476
1/5/17 2:05:12 PM 
In reply to nick2020

I figure you are leading me to the story of his flood
Yes, more specifically, Tablet 11. A fable Moses impossibly attributes to Noah - who was born LONG LONG after said event.

Also please add a 3rd category:
1. Those who are searching for the answer (fluid)
2. Those who could not be bothered (vacuous)
3. Those who accept what they are told (static).

link SnoopDog Joined: Jan 24, 2004
Posts: 5705
1/5/17 2:22:51 PM 
In reply to pelon

Yes, more specifically, Tablet 11


Tablet 11 also contains the story of the giant reptiles, who roamed the earth an entire day before Adam and Eve inherited same. lol

link pelon Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 5476
1/5/17 2:27:47 PM 
In reply to SnoopDog


I will wait to see if Ayenmol will come up with any meaningful/rational other than "interesting" - on how Noah could be attributed to the IDENTICAL flood myth.

small steps though.

link SnoopDog Joined: Jan 24, 2004
Posts: 5705
1/5/17 2:34:42 PM 
In reply to pelon

I will wait to see if Ayenmol will come up with any meaningful/rational other than "interesting"


The standard retort of any religious person caught in a contradiction or any rational quagmire is "well it's what I believe and it's a matter of faith".


Believe it or not I have no problem with that answer. Religion has no business explaining things rationally since it's very foundation and a pillar of the institution is the privilege of faith over reason. The problems arise when religion tries to employ rationality and reason to justify itself instead of saying "look, it's based on faith. Either you believe it or you don't. End of discussion".

link Tryangle Joined: Jul 11, 2004
Posts: 1727
1/5/17 3:03:43 PM 
In reply to Ayenmol

These though were often done by God himself. Not by human hands.


Thanks Ayenmol, although if it's done by God himself, I'd have expected a verse indicating that "God smote the *choose your tribe*, as opposed to directing the Israelites to kill the opposing tribe (incl. women and children).

I still see conflicts here, and cannot yet see a differentiation between more modern-day genocide

link nick2020 Joined: Jul 2, 2012
Posts: 16732
1/5/17 4:06:29 PM 
In reply to SnoopDog

And he was merely pointing out one of yours


What is my contradiction?

link Ridge Joined: Jan 30, 2004
Posts: 3594
1/5/17 4:47:25 PM 
Rant all you want. A day of reckoning will come.

link pelon Joined: Mar 22, 2008
Posts: 5476
1/5/17 4:57:02 PM 
In reply to Ridge

A day of reckoning will come.
Exactly. Death is the great equalizer - to the earthen soil we shall ALL go - and the only singular truth for us all.

link Ayenmol Joined: May 4, 2003
Posts: 7488
1/5/17 5:52:59 PM 
Really can't keep up. You all can believe whatever you want. Guaranteed that those who share these views did not come to them based on research but rather that they went searching for thesc to solidify their already existing belief.

When i use words as funny and interesting, it somehow lands as uninforned. But i have heard it all. Thing is you all have placed your faith in documents that are proven works of fiction and state for a certainty that the dates of their occurence are definite.

The Bible does not place a date on the Flood at all. So am not sure why you all think that because there are fables and stories written before the actual Bible then that proves that the Bible plagiarized.

Fact...moses was born long after Creation...but he wrote about that under divine inspiration. He also wrote about the Tower of Babel, the Flood etc as given to him by the Bible's author.

The fact that there are other stories tells me that this occured and the reasons behind it or details werd obscurred for centuries. Many fables come from truth that has been distorted over time.

Surely Noah and his children would have told their children about the Flood and these stories would have been passed on. So these proves absolutely nothing.

What does it say that you rely on the ancient writings to dispute the Bible, yet casually dismiss the fact that every single culture, people and civilization has a God, deity etc. Why?

Every one has a need to Worship. It is precisely why most of you take so much pride in your assault on the Bible because not even your conscience will allow you to dismiss it without forming some rationale.
Why does'nt any civilization have fables and stories based on evolution? Why? Not one civilization was able to communicate that their ancestors could not speak, but now, Voila!

Very Happy Smile Sad Surprised Shocked Confused Cool Laughing Razz Embarassed Crying or Very sad Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil Rolling Eyes Wink
 
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