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The South Africa Quota Debate.....Abbott Quits..

 
FanAttick 2017-01-05 18:17:58 

Quota debate intensifies

Team doing well but affirmative action opponents aren't happy...

 
Narper 2017-01-06 09:18:13 

Any quota system in sports is fcukery....especially in national team selection.

 
FanAttick 2017-01-06 09:37:44 

In reply to Narper

While I might be inclined to agree generally, South Africa is a special case...

If it were not for the Quota you would not see the likes of Rabada and Philander...

Imagine Abbott is still harboring resentment at being excluded in the WC Finals in favor of Vern.....

While one can agree that Abbott was in better nick and Vern was coming off an injury it is easy to see why the selectors thought that the conditions were more amenable to Vern's swing .....

AB De Villiers was another who allowed the dislike of the Quota to adversely affect his performance as a captain.....

FAF Du Plessis has put his feelings on the backburner and is leading his team rapidly up the rankings with a victory away to OZ in his bragging cap...

 
StumpCam 2017-01-06 09:47:04 

In reply to FanAttick

Maybe the quota that pissing off white South Africans are not Philander and Rabada, but the others of similar hue, Maharaj & Shamsi! wink

 
NineMiles 2017-01-06 09:59:30 

In reply to FanAttick


Narps never had a problem with lack of quotas during the apartheid era! wink

 
camos 2017-01-06 10:10:38 

quota is a cheap way to fix historical injustice, would white SA prefer the board gutting spending on the game in white areas, so that more resources can be spent on black areas?

 
SnoopDog 2017-01-06 10:27:52 

In reply to Narper

Look how well quotas worked for team Zimbabwe. lol

 
sunfish 2017-01-06 10:43:15 

During apartheid there was an 11-0 quota system in place, 11 whites and no blacks. The present system is tame compared to that era and is necessary to give blacks a look in..

 
cricketmygame 2017-01-06 10:46:10 

abbot didnt leave for quota alone

he left because of the crime rate and poor currency

i think he wants english citizenship

 
Andy99 2017-01-06 10:50:00 

Rilee Rossouw also went.
Can't blame them especially with the new quota rules.
Its their job, take the best offer on the table because it can happen that you are doing well but because of quota your career could well be over.

In the case of Abbott, with 3 bowlers around Steyn, Vernon and Rabada all averaging below the great 25, so too was Abbott btw, along with the emerging talents and quotas, at age 29 its the logical move for his financial security.

With Rilee well......

Player A:
26 years old
100 FC matches, 37 average with 12 tons.

Player B:
27 years old
78 FC matches, 44 average with 18 tons.

Player A is currently in the Test team, played his 16th Test and averages 31.

Player B has never played a Test before.

Player A - Temba Bavuma
Player B - Rilee Rossouw

 
SnoopDog 2017-01-06 11:04:47 

In reply to sunfish

The present system is necessary to give blacks a look in


So conclusion is that Blacks wouldn't get a look in even if they were good enough and merited selection. Okay then.

 
Narper 2017-01-06 11:07:24 

In reply to FanAttick

If it were not for the Quota you would not see the likes of Rabada and Philander...


How did Ntini make the side then?

How did WI cricket evolve into the 60s-70s teams?

 
Narper 2017-01-06 11:09:17 

In reply to NineMiles

Narps never had a problem with lack of quotas during the apartheid era!


I had a problem with apartheid then and NOW...why are they starting another form of apartheid in cricket now?

 
Narper 2017-01-06 11:12:26 

In reply to StumpCam

Maybe the quota that pissing off white South Africans are not Philander and Rabada, but the others of similar hue, Maharaj & Shamsi!


Sub Quota in the Quota system? wink

 
Gun_Play 2017-01-06 11:14:17 

In reply to SnoopDog

Yes, that's the practice in RSA.

Why ya'll acting like you don't know how RSA operates. rolleyes

 
Narper 2017-01-06 11:15:31 

In reply to NineMiles

Leagacee of the great original KP big grin

I believe KP is the consultant

 
Narper 2017-01-06 11:16:58 

In reply to Gun_Play

how RSA operates.


operates or operated?

 
CricketLuva4 2017-01-06 11:17:48 

In reply to FanAttick

On a related note, quota picks took all 20 wkts....

 
db 2017-01-06 11:19:06 

In reply to FanAttick

This is a guestion of individual rights versus the interest of international cricket. Same thing happened to WI, when players elected to play for IPL. Can the ICC prevent an arm of the ECB, Hampshire in this case, from poaching players from other countries

 
JOJO 2017-01-06 11:35:08 

In reply to camos

would white SA prefer the board gutting spending on the game in white areas, so that more resources can be spent on black areas?


This.

The reason why I am against quotas is because it is a lazy, unimaginative effort to deal with the deep-rooted issues of inequality that were established by apartheid.

 
djdrastic 2017-01-06 11:41:01 

Rilee gone as well sad
Lost a guy I really thought , would have been a gamechanger in the upcoming Cricket World Cup.

 
SnoopDog 2017-01-06 11:56:10 

In reply to djdrastic

Rilee gone as well sad
Lost a guy I really thought , would have been a gamechanger in the upcoming Cricket World Cup.


I feel for ya Bro. One day you guys will be as good as Zimbabwe is currently.

 
Devin 2017-01-06 11:58:44 

In reply to FanAttick

How do you know that you wouldn't have seen the likes of Philander and Rabada without the quota system? If they were dominating the domestic competition, what makes you think that they wouldn't be selected?

 
Halliwell 2017-01-06 12:25:13 

In reply to Narper

If the system is skewed, you still think quotas is rubbish

 
WICFan 2017-01-06 14:03:13 

The best XI should be playing based on form not colour.

Abbott is also looking after his long-term future.

Another question is what does this make for the future of English Cricket and the development of young players that will be taking a backseat while Kolpaks take their places.

Rossouw will probably play for England at some stage in the future.

 
camos 2017-01-06 14:19:55 

players leave SA and go to England because that quota system favours them! rolleyes

 
mikesiva 2017-01-06 14:21:08 

In reply to cricketmygame

Exactly...Abbott was after more money from Hampshire, because the pound is stronger than the rand - for now!
smile
But he doesn't want to be called greedy, so let's whine and whinge about the quota system. So, if the quota system is keeping Abbott out, who exactly should he be playing ahead of?

Let's look at the Test stats this series....

1) Philander - 13 wickets at an average of 14.23
2) Rabada - 14 wickets at an average of 16.57
3) Abbott - five wickets at an average of 31.20

Philander and Rabada are picked ahead of Abbott on merit. That's what Abbott realises, when he made the decision to go to Hampshire. He knows that once Steyn is fit, the great man comes back into the side at his expense, and rightly so. If Abbott thinks he should be picked in a four-man pace attack, ahead of Maharaj and Shamsi, those days are done. On these tracks, a spinner is essential.

'Russell Domingo said he was "bitterly disappointed" in Rossouw. "We backed him when he made five noughts," Domingo said. "If that had been a player of colour, everyone would have said transformation. I haven't spoken to him since Australia but I am very disappointed." Rossouw had made four ducks in his first six ODI innings.'

Quite right, Domingo

Abbott has played the last four Tests for South Africa, so he was a fixture. He did not leave because of quotas, but because he wanted to make more money playing and living in England. Rossouw was a fixture in the ODI side. He left because he wanted to make more money playing and living in England. Blaming the so-called quota system is disingenious.

Here's a list of those who might take up Kolpaks

Most of them are fringe players or rejects. All of them are white, I think. These white players were patriotic when South Africa was under apartheid, but once Nelson Mandela was released from Robben Island, and the ANC were elected, all of a sudden that white Saffer patriotism has disappeared....
cool
The current system is working fine for South Africa. They just thrashed Australia in their own backyard. Pakistan are currently finding out how hard that is to do. For those who complain about quotas, I have two questions:

1) Who exactly is being kept out of the side by quotas?

2) Who exactly is keeping them out?

 
djdrastic 2017-01-06 15:32:05 

In reply to mikesiva

Care to expand on your joyboy JP Duminy ?
You think with a career average of 32.62 he is there on merit ?

 
FanAttick 2017-01-06 15:41:47 

In reply to mikesiva

The oppressors want to enjoy the fruits of their ill-gotten gains without having to sacrifice anything....

Apartheid is alive and well in Saffie Land....

Don't let the door hit them on their pale rasses as they beat a reverse retreat for blood money...

Give me mothertrucking hope Joanna...give me hope before the morning come...

 
Narper 2017-01-06 15:53:05 

In reply to mikesiva

The current system is working fine for South Africa. They just thrashed Australia in their own backyard. Pakistan are currently finding out how hard that is to do.

As the system is working fine...then why the need to introduce quotas?

 
Verstehen 2017-01-06 15:56:54 

In reply to mikesiva

..Abbott was after more money from Hampshire, because the pound is stronger than the rand - for now!


Cricinfo says that "Abbott's Hampshire salary will not amount to much more than his Cricket South Africa one...". Link

It's been more about job security than money, according to all new sources.

 
CricketLuva4 2017-01-06 16:18:12 

In reply to WICFan

In order to represent England, you have to play in England for 7 years I believe once you're Kolpak. It was bumped up from 4 years previously.

 
openning 2017-01-06 17:00:58 

In reply to Narper

I had a problem with apartheid then and NOW...why are they starting another form of apartheid in cricket now?


Black were denied on any white team is SA, no different to Baseball in the USA, you cannot ignore a race for so long, and then don't let them in.
Abbott and all white players, should remember they got a head start there because of Apartheid.

 
Narper 2017-01-06 17:16:09 

In reply to openning

and then don't let them in.

Is there a system in place even after 25 years still blocking black players? If so...why is this so...who is responsible? Wouldn't you want a player to play for the national side on merit? I don't see how quota could solve this problem.

 
openning 2017-01-06 17:37:12 

In reply to Narper

Dude, has you study the Apartheid system?
Look at your country. a number of people left because of Burnham, Aparthied was worst.
It was just like black sitting in the back of the bus, not able to play Baseball on White teams
You must fast track good young black players in SA, to make up for the discrimanation

Is there a system in place even after 25 years still blocking black players?


I don't know how many young blacks are given the same opportunity as whites at the Club level, are they being contracted like whites?
Look at blacks in the US, do you think they caught up to whites?
Think of the social strata.
I have no problem with white SA being drop, Blacks were ignored for years.

 
Narper 2017-01-06 17:41:59 

In reply to openning

You must fast track good young black players in SA, to make up for the discrimanation


I have no problem with fast tracking ....all teams do so....but quota picks??...come on....must be demeaning to the good and excellent black players

 
camos 2017-01-06 17:52:55 

In reply to Narper

must be demeaning to the good and excellent black players



mediocre whites enjoy that in a lot of areas in South Africa.

 
openning 2017-01-06 17:57:23 

In reply to Narper

What is demeaning to young blacks, Apartheid or being role models for other young blacks?
I would have a problem if it was mandatory to have evenly divided race on the team, but picking a promising black or colour ahead of a promising white, I have no problem with.
You have to look at the lack of being not allowed to be successful, this not about the few whites that are not selected or is ignore.
The history and future of SA cricket, is bigger than the disgruntled player.

 
openning 2017-01-06 18:04:15 

In reply to Narper

Apartheid is a topic, that has been taught to me, when I was 12 years old.
Anyone that had been a student of JO Morris, understand this topic, I would not call quota, it is making SA available to all it citizens

 
buds 2017-01-06 18:13:02 

In reply to sunfish

Let me see a comeback to that argument.

 
buds 2017-01-06 18:15:26 

[b]In reply to openning[

Now they feel what it's felt like in Apartheid..it's not equivalent but it hurts to the core.

 
openning 2017-01-06 18:20:02 

In reply to buds
This is a topic, that has been with me from the age of twelve, no dropping of any white player in SA, can make up for disallowing blacks, from playing for SA, during the Apartheid system.

 
Andy99 2017-01-06 18:24:08 

2 wrongs don't make a right.

 
buds 2017-01-06 18:35:46 

In reply to Andy99

That's simplistic

 
buds 2017-01-06 18:37:11 

In reply to openning

Absolutely--False equivalence a few are drawing from the few Blacks playing for SA.

 
Fantom 2017-01-06 18:47:01 

In reply to Narper

Is there a system in place even after 25 years still blocking black players? If so...why is this so...who is responsible?

How long did apartheid last? The quota system with increasing targets towards proportional representation must last the same amount of time plus one score years.

The extra time is needed for the majority black population to gain and completely control the power instruments.

 
Andy99 2017-01-06 18:51:26 

In reply to Fantom

towards proportional representation


There are zero Indians in the TNT football team, have been so for as long as I can remember yet Indians make up 1/3 of the population.
So lets forget that maybe Indians just aren't good enough at football, maybe what they need is a quota.

 
Fantom 2017-01-06 18:56:50 

In reply to Andy99

If Indians in Trinidad were systematically excluded from towns, homes, schools, facilities and teams, and for years denied their humanity, then yes - a quota system would be entirely appropriate.

 
Andy99 2017-01-06 18:59:08 

In reply to Fantom

towards proportional representation


Explain this.

 
Narper 2017-01-06 20:46:17 

1. February 2013: Abbott takes 7 for 29 in the first innings against Pakistan in Centurion, and is Player of the Match on Test debut for his nine-wicket haul.

He misses the next six Tests South Africa play.

2. March 2014: Abbott's three wickets are the best returns for a South African fast bowler in the Newlands Test against Australia. His workload - 42 overs - is also the heaviest for his team.

He misses the next three Tests South Africa play.

3. December 2014: Abbott takes 1 for 61 in the match as Dale Steyn and Vernon Philander raze West Indies in Centurion.

He misses the next five Tests South Africa play.

4. November 2015: Abbott's fourth Test lasts only a day as rain ruins the match in Bangalore. He bowls six out of 22 overs in India's first innings, taking 0 for 18.

He misses the next Test of the tour of India, in Nagpur.

5. December 2015: Abbott takes 5 for 40 in 24.5 overs in India's first innings in Delhi, and 1 for 47 in 22 in the second.

He is picked for South Africa's next Test.

6. December 2015: Abbott bowls 45.4 overs in the Kingsmead Test against England and takes 2 for 128.

He misses South Africa's next two Tests in that series.

7. January 2016: Abbott returns figures of 21-9-46-0 in the Centurion Test against England, with Kagiso Radaba emerging as a force with a 13-wicket haul.

He misses South Africa's next three Tests.

8. November 2016: Abbott takes 3 for 41 and 6 for 77 in Hobart to bowl South Africa to series victory in Australia.

With Steyn injured, Abbott plays South Africa's next three Tests. It is the first time Abbott is playing successive Tests in a series.

9. November 2016: Abbott takes 3 for 49 and 1 for 26 in South Africa's first day-night Test, at Adelaide Oval.

10. December 2016: Abbott claims 3 for 63 and 2 for 38 against Sri Lanka in Port Elizabeth, conceding only 101 runs in 41.5 overs in the match.

11. January 2016: Abbott goes wicketless against Sri Lanka after bowling 23 overs in Cape Town.

It turns out to be his final Test for South Africa as he confirms he has signed a three-year Kolpak contract with English county Hampshire.


© ESPN Sports Media Ltd.
Kyle Abbott's long wait for 11 Tests

 
FanAttick 2017-01-06 21:29:03 

In reply to Narper

Post the stats of his competitors during the period from his debut to his final test...which affirmative action beneficiary was keeping him out?

 
Andy99 2017-01-06 21:47:00 

In reply to FanAttick

TBH if any pacer was keeping him out of Tests it would've been Morkel.

 
FanAttick 2017-01-06 21:50:21 

In reply to Andy99

TBH if any pacer was keeping him out of Tests it would've been


Indeed. This blaming of Quota for his lack of playing time is pure bullspit...

 
JahJah 2017-01-07 03:56:15 

In reply to buds

That's simplistic


That is because Andy is a simpleton
lol lol

 
JahJah 2017-01-07 03:57:33 

Was Ashwell Prince pushed out to make way for some more white dudes?

 
JahJah 2017-01-07 03:59:09 

In reply to Andy99


There are zero Indians in the TNT football team, have been so for as long as I can remember yet Indians make up 1/3 of the population.
So lets forget that maybe Indians just aren't good enough at football, maybe what they need is a quota.


WTF!!!

lol

Can someone please help AndyCapped
lol lol lol lol

 
FanAttick 2017-01-07 08:33:23 

This article is very insightful

Mediocrity is the reason for their exclusion ...not Quota

 
mikesiva 2017-01-07 09:05:06 

In reply to djdrastic

As I said before....

1) Who exactly is being kept out of the side by quotas?

Three batsmen in this current Saffer side are averaging in the 30s:

1) JP Duminy - "coloured"

2) Temba Bavuma - black

3) Dean Elgar - white

One of this trio will make way for AB deVilliers on his return, and I bet you it won't be the white man, Elgar. It will be Duminy or Bavuma. So much for this white whinge about quotas....

And yet this Saffer side is doing well in Test cricket. It may just be that there are no better players in FC cricket.

Who exactly is being kept out? Certainly not Abbott and Rossouw...I'm still trying to figure out who this so-called quota system is keeping out of the side, to keep them from fielding a better side.

It seems to me that this blanket, general criticism of the so-called quota system just masks a general white Saffer resentment of the fact that the SA side is no longer an all-white team.

 
Andy99 2017-01-07 18:12:06 

In reply to JahJah

Yeah simpleton, okay Mr. know it all continue to fight to good fight back there in Sweden.

 
Emir 2017-01-07 18:15:43 

In reply to sunfish

During apartheid there was an 11-0 quota system in place, 11 whites and no blacks. The present system is tame compared to that era and is necessary to give blacks a look in..


lol lol

 
Andy99 2017-01-07 18:15:44 

In reply to JahJah

Was Ashwell Prince pushed out to make way for some more white dudes?


Yeah pushed out.
Is not like from 2010 til the end of his career (the last 16 of his 66 Tests) he averaged 27 for SA with no tons and 3 fifties.
Yeah pushed out.
17, 11 and 19 averages vs Aus, Eng and Lanka. 24 vs India and 40 vs Pak. He did dominate the mighty WI tho averaging 80.

 
Andy99 2017-01-07 18:20:16 

In reply to mikesiva

As I said before....

1) Who exactly is being kept out of the side by quotas?


Maybe not now but with the rules who is to say it won't affect the team in the future?

Three batsmen in this current Saffer side are averaging in the 30s:

1) JP Duminy - "coloured"

2) Temba Bavuma - black

3) Dean Elgar - white

One of this trio will make way for AB deVilliers on his return, and I bet you it won't be the white man, Elgar. It will be Duminy or Bavuma. So much for this white whinge about quotas....


You serious? rolleyes
1 averages 32
The other averages 31
The last one averages 38.

Who exactly is being kept out? Certainly not Abbott and Rossouw...I'm still trying to figure out who this so-called quota system is keeping out of the side, to keep them from fielding a better side.


How many Tests did Rossouw play?

 
Baje 2017-01-08 12:28:08 

In reply to Devin

How do you know that you wouldn't have seen the likes of Philander and Rabada without the quota system? If they were dominating the domestic competition, what makes you think that they wouldn't be selected?


Clearly their is a lack of trust. The quota installers may not trust the selectors to be impartial.

 
Narper 2017-01-08 12:48:44 

In reply to Baje

The quota installers may not trust the selectors to be impartial
.

then quota is needed for selectors too...when will it end

 
camos 2017-01-08 13:24:39 

as a minority white should embrace quotas for one day they may need such a provision.