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Selectors got it wrong AGAIN

 
Slipfeeler 2017-03-15 11:50:55 

Selectors cannot select a B'dos invitational Test team to play a WI ODI match, let's all face the facts, we never learn from the first time so we got WHITE-WASHED TWICE. If Selectors are not planning to change their strategies and to select a more suitable, then I hope than they are not planning to see a different result. More WHITE-WASHES are in the future for WI and further demise of WIZ cricket as we are heading downwards to #10 then #11 position.

 
tc1 2017-03-15 12:30:56 

In reply to Slipfeeler

we were at 8 and 9 for years.

 
Slipfeeler 2017-03-15 13:18:15 

In reply to tc1

Now we are heading downwards to #10 and #11

 
openning 2017-03-15 13:36:19 

In reply to tc1

Selectors cannot select a B'dos invitational Test team


Sometimes we should ignore the above statement
Let hope and pray, the regional teams become franchises, where players can be drafted and selection will be base on player's performances for his franchise and not the Island of birth will be none issue.

The CPL is doing a better job eliminating insularity than the PCL

 
Slipfeeler 2017-03-15 14:01:38 

In reply to openning

That same sense of insularity should extend to all WI teams not only in CPL etc. We can only overcome our poor test and ODI performances by selecting only the best players on all teams.

 
Baje 2017-03-15 14:46:25 

In reply to Slipfeeler
Who was missing from the selection? Call names instead of "best" players?

 
Pacy 2017-03-15 14:50:10 

In reply to tc1

we were at 8 and 9 for years.


Out of the 8 competitive teams we were at 7 or 8 for most of this century... But today we are among the minnows in 9th. 8th and 9th could be just adjacent numbers but in cricketing rank terms there is a huge gulf sad

 
Pacy 2017-03-15 14:50:51 

In reply to Slipfeeler

Except for Carlos Brathwaite I did not see a glaring error in selection.

 
natty_forever 2017-03-15 15:42:28 

In reply to Pacy... look again.

 
Nemesis 2017-03-15 15:46:09 

In reply to natty_forever

Where is this team you guys speaking of?

 
tc1 2017-03-15 16:10:47 

In reply to natty_forever

we could add a few yardies to the mix, can you help with names.

 
tc1 2017-03-15 16:16:27 

In reply to Pacy
u only slipped one position, 8 to 9 without superstars Bravo, Gaile, Pollard, Simmonds, Sammy, Samuels, they are all superstars that avg more than 40 in both test and ODI.

 
Slipfeeler 2017-03-15 16:21:04 

In reply to Nemesis

This is a more realistic team.

Lewis
Walton
Hope
Ambris
Mohammed
Carter
R.Powell
J.Holder
Nurse
Gabriel
Joseph
Cornwall

 
Pacy 2017-03-15 16:24:09 

In reply to tc1

I am a fan who would have wanted to move from 8 to 7 and above by building on the available better players.

But if you are not worried about us being pushed to minnow status and cant see a way out I cant have nothing to say.

 
tc1 2017-03-15 16:24:40 

In reply to Slipfeeler

what are you basing your team on ?

 
natty_forever 2017-03-15 16:26:30 

In reply to tc1... name a Yaadie I have hyped? And spell the Big Man name correct else I will style you. The one person who averages above 40 on yourlist you facking with.

 
Pacy 2017-03-15 16:28:25 

In reply to natty_forever

Not many are any different in the circuit in my view. All the youngsters who play today were the ones who showed similar potential in the past. There is no one with experience and talent to guide them.

Like i said in the other thread, we are hoping for Jason Mohammed and Carter to save us from England. They hardly have 20 matches and for them to shoulder this team is going to be impossible.

 
openning 2017-03-15 16:31:48 

In reply to Slipfeeler
Who are the best Players and list their ODI and test stats?

 
tc1 2017-03-15 16:33:02 

In reply to Pacy


Where is the 'way out', it seems like there is no way out after 25 years, that a lot of time in the wilderness without a messiah to lead?

the last anointed messiah came in 91 and ended his reign in 07, run out by insurgent and we were ranked 7 or 8.

good luck Pacy

 
natty_forever 2017-03-15 16:33:40 

In reply to Pacy... agree. I have not been picking anyone. Two players stood out during the ODI, J Mo and Walton. They played one. Hindsight is saying KB may not be best suited for this format either, I thought he would be. But he not batting deep enough if he not going strike the ball. big grin

 
natty_forever 2017-03-15 16:35:09 

In reply to tc1... we keep missing the way out. Ok, this is the lot, but what are we doing to prepare the next lot. Academy? A Team tours? Play as a team in the PCL and OD tournament?

 
Slipfeeler 2017-03-15 16:35:54 

In reply to natty_forever

Just one Yardie? How about Walton? He has proven himself against England as the only WI player to score a century, while so many Bajans yet to prove themselves internationally but still selected to WI team. Plus we all know except the selectors that Rovman is a much better ODI player than most on the field. My proof is that even Joseph turned out to be a better ODI batsman and bowler than most Bajans on the team.

 
tc1 2017-03-15 16:40:21 

In reply to natty_forever

wow , you gine style a person for spelling a cricketer name incorrectly.

as a rule, you do not hype yardies cricketers like others,

u must admit that the superstars list only one performed at 40 +

 
tc1 2017-03-15 16:50:53 

In reply to natty_forever

Honestly, I do not know, we try the academies, we try the A team, we are trying the PCL.
We had Lloyd, Viv, Marshall, Roberts, Richie, Ambie, Walsh, Big Bird in the lead,but we are still hovering at 8 or 9

 
Pacy 2017-03-15 16:58:08 

In reply to tc1

Yes we were languishing at 7th or 8th. But movement upwards would have happened only when you replace the existing players wi he better ones.

When we are struggling to find 1 good player you can't discard a whole lot every other and expect to move upward. That is what we are doing since 2010.

When all of us insist better players and measure success only by victories there would be pressure. Today one or 2 performances in a whitewashed series is hailed as an improvement. To justify you being out a one off series in 2000s. Does not help.

 
natty_forever 2017-03-15 17:48:52 

In reply to tc1

wow , you gine style a person for spelling a cricketer name incorrectly.
... yes, not sure if it is deliberate.

big grin

 
natty_forever 2017-03-15 17:50:30 

In reply to tc1.. that's the other thing "we keep trying", no consistency. Try this year, abandon next year ... would love to see a 15 selected and sustained for 3 years.

 
Slipfeeler 2017-03-15 18:22:41 

In reply to natty_forever

We cannot retain most of the players in the current ODI squad for they have demonstrated in at least two series that they are not ODI players! So why persist with them and not change those players to more suitable ODI players? Are we setting ourselves up for another White-wash? SMD

 
analyst-kid 2017-03-15 20:47:57 

ow about Walton? He has proven himself against England as the only WI player to score a century, while so many Bajans yet to prove themselves internationally but still selected to WI team. Plus we all know except the selectors that Rovman is a much better ODI player than most on the field. My proof is that even Joseph turned out to be a better ODI batsman and bowler than most Bajans on the team.


Only one WI batsman has distinguished himself since that Tri Nations Series in Zim...and that is CARTER.

Himself and Mohammed are the only batsman featured in the whitewash.

NO other bastmen in the last entire tournament save Shiv can say they have proved themselves internationally. Walton now has to address himself in an ODI.

 
analyst-kid 2017-03-15 21:08:49 

The only good feature of our ODI team is the bowling with Nurse,Bishoo,Gabriel and Joseph all avg sub 30 and Holder avg 31.81.

Cornwall or Jacobs might add further strength to the bowling.
I can't see Kraigg being dropped against Pak knowing he avg 57.16 in Tests and 28.13 in ODIs against them
....with no Gayle or Simmons around and Lewis and Powell failing miserably against Eng....Brathwaite has no challengers for his player and Walton might either play for Lewis or sit while Lewis gets another chance to prove himself.

 
tc1 2017-03-15 22:42:41 

In reply to Pacy

where will the better players come from, we now have the players from the class of 2010-16, we will have to play the u13 group to get this pool of better players.

 
sunfish 2017-03-15 22:47:39 

Selectors and coaches are the most maligned folk during HARD WI cricketing times. And Players are mainly exempt from criticism because their failure is usually pined on the admin.

Hey, it's the CWI fault if I make only 50 and the match is lost. Right?

 
openning 2017-03-15 23:02:30 

Allyuh will see changes soon.
The T20 squad will have some of the senior players, and they will be changes to the ODI squad.
Not everyone will like the chnages, but thats life.

 
shivnotout 2017-03-15 23:27:10 

In reply to openning

Let hope and pray, the regional teams become franchises



you want guyanese players to play for barbados,and win de cup for them?

 
openning 2017-03-16 00:01:07 

In reply to shivnotout

Allyuh Guyanese don't travel well.

you want guyanese players to play for barbados,and win de cup for them?


Hope you are aware of a great Bajan, who turned around British Guiana's cricket.

 
TanteMerle 2017-03-16 05:01:29 

It's amazing the amount of nonsense that people,
who I honestly believe to be intelligent spew.

Do you realize what it takes to jump upward in the rankings.

To make substantial movement, you must beat teams ranked above you.
Also the further above you the better.

West Indies were struggling for years.
You cannot single out one factor.

WICB is Number 1 fault in my opinion.
With their archaic policies and methodologies.

Only previous players involved in selection, coaching, mentoring etc.
Who says that this is best.
Do one have to play test to select or coach?
Can previous players (who miss test selection) coach.
Do one need to play international cricket to achieve coaching status?
Do previous test experience equate to the ability to pass on knowledge and mentor?

Maybe the old adage "Those who can't teach" applies.

Is Lloyd at 70 years old the right fit,
Just because he did a great job at 20 plus.
After all, he picked Chandrika without a first class 100 and an average in the 20's.
We know how that turned out.

He resurrected Samuels who flattered to deceive,
and from sources was a distraction, a snitch, an outcast causing distractions and anarchy.
(sources sais, not me, I'm just reporting).

People here mentioning Gayle etc who average 40 plus.

Word to the wise. Time to move to fack on.
Past is past. As a cartoon character said,
Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery.
Today is a gift, that why it's called present.
We can't agree on today's team,
therefore no chance for the future.

I do realize that we the fans are hurting,
But it's time to stop this shit about Bim.
A few years ago it was a Jamaican select,
do anyone remember the end result?
Did we rise in he ranks.

What has Pollard, Ramdin done for us?
What has Gayle, Samuels etc done for us?
What has any territory done for us?
We all rise and fall together.

WICB is the number one fault.

 
natty_forever 2017-03-16 09:10:29 

WICB is the number one fault.

 
analyst-kid 2017-03-16 10:40:44 

I look at things from a technical stance notwithstanding management and board issues.

In the last ODI series...it is shown that WI can not be competitive if

1 Your top order bats cannot give u a start....in all three matches the top order fail with Brathwaite avg 20+, Lewis avg 9+ and Powell avg 5+.

2. The middle order (Hope,Mohammed and Carter) in the forst two matches rose to the occasion putting WI in a position to post a competitive score.

3 The allrounders and supposedly powerhitters ( Holder,Carlos Brathwaite and to a lesser extent Nurse) failed miserably to carry WI to competitive scores with Brathwaite not taking a single wicket with the ball and Holder taking his only three in the 3rd ODI.

4 The bowling lacked penetration as a result of the non performing allrounders and clearly Gabriel,Joseph and Nurse MUST play together.

ANALYSIS; For WI to be competitive they must search and establish a steadier top three and select allrounders who must perform. A more penetrative attack is needed also.....SLIPFEELER's TEAM to his credit looks like the realistic team.

 
natty_forever 2017-03-16 10:42:59 

In reply to analyst-kid... I always have time for your posts.

 
analyst-kid 2017-03-16 10:46:00 

However I would pick Kraigg Brathwaite ahead of Lewis...we still need batsmen who can bat 30 overs.

My take on Kraigg is that once Powell and Lewis kept falling cheaply....Brathwaite was unduly under pressure to score quickly which is not his purpose in the team...his purpose is to hold the team together score singles around a free scoring batsman.

 
analyst-kid 2017-03-16 10:53:19 

Walton
Brathwaite
Hope
Mohammed
Carter
Powell
Holder
Cornwall
Nurse
Joseph
Gabriel

Ambris
Lewis

 
analyst-kid 2017-03-16 11:13:00 

Holder as captain MUST perform...WI need him to perform.

But is Holder a superior allrounder to Rovman Powell,Cornwall, Reifer,Campbell, Mayers,Stoute and others....that is why he needs to perform.

 
Pacy 2017-03-16 11:39:07 

In reply to tc1

where will the better players come from, we now have the players from the class of 2010-16, we will have to play the u13 group to get this pool of better players.


Yes today that is a problem. But we had a chance to keep the players who could have kept us at 7th or 8th position while only the best out of the current bunch of youngsters who had been thrown in the deep end Could be used.

Not sure if we have that possibility any more.

 
Pacy 2017-03-16 11:45:36 

In reply to sunfish

Hey, it's the CWI fault if I make only 50 and the match is lost. Right?

CWI has been give the licence to administer WI cricket... they have power to decide interventions, manage the budget, select players, select coaches, decide administrators and what not.

With all this power comes responsibility. You went ahead to use the power to discard any and every player they feel like.

After all this if CWI says what can we do? I would say get lost.

 
Pacy 2017-03-16 11:45:36 

In reply to sunfish

Hey, it's the CWI fault if I make only 50 and the match is lost. Right?

CWI has been give the licence to administer WI cricket... they have power to decide interventions, manage the budget, select players, select coaches, decide administrators and what not.

With all this power comes responsibility. You went ahead to use the power to discard any and every player they feel like.

After all this if CWI says what can we do? I would say get lost.

 
seaegg99 2017-03-16 11:46:57 

In reply to analyst-kid

Good team. Who would you want to lead the team?

 
Slipfeeler 2017-03-16 15:27:04 

In reply to TanteMerle

After such a long soliloquy one would think that at least the future of WI cricket could have benefitted as a consequence of your monologue but alas we were short-changed and WI will continue its downward spiral until most of us face the reality that poor selection cannot be rationalized into a winning team.

 
openning 2017-03-16 16:27:53 

In reply to Slipfeeler

You actually believe that poor selection is responsible for two decades of failure at the International level?

 
Veracity 2017-03-16 16:29:28 

In reply to analyst-kid

Good analysis ..... I agree that if Kraigg B. is playing he has to occupy the crease and allow other (free scorers) players to bat around. The loss of early wickets applies pressure to him and he tries to step outside of his comfort zone which results in him getting out.
Couple things - people on this board fail to recognize Kraigg's role, and his limitations. (Just like those who advocate for playing players and batting outside of their natural position; they will suggest that Kraigg should suddenly switch to Viv once the score reaches 20 for 2. Not going to happen).
The WI don't have bowlers that are skilled enough to get wickets. Looking at the last ODI; the WI #s 1 & 2 were out due to skilled bowling. Granted our bowlers are not as experience and skilled.

 
tc1 2017-03-16 16:42:36 

In reply to TanteMerle
r u the POINT

lol lol lol

 
Slipfeeler 2017-03-16 16:54:38 

In reply to openning

Actually the many mis-selection, premature de-selection and abject disrespect for experienced players all culminated in our continued decline and has certainly not helped to arrest our decline. Many are of the opinion that since WI cricket was already on the decline so the inclination is to select any unsuitable player on WI then rationalize the irresponsible selection by arguing that WI is already on a decline anyway therefore that player is not a contributory factor to the decline of WI.

Let me remind everyone that we just got white-washed by England in the Caribbean. The last WI team to win a series against England which was actually the last WI team to win a series against a ranking or reputable team consisted of experienced players. Experienced players even when they didn't win were more competitive than current team and we suffered less humiliation relative to current ODI and Test teams. Also WI continues to dominate world T20 cricket mainly due to the fact that we retained our experienced players. How can one now argue that experienced players are inconsequential to any improvement in WI rankings?

 
analyst-kid 2017-03-16 17:39:58 

In reply to Veracity

The WI don't have bowlers that are skilled enough to get wickets. Looking at the last ODI; the WI #s 1 & 2 were out due to skilled bowling. Granted our bowlers are not as experience and skilled.


It is clear that the English bowlers planned for our openers...they knew their faults and weaknesses and exploited them.

Believe me if our selectors had responded quickly and inserted Walton and an Ambris for example for Lewis and Powell, they would have caught the English unawares...why do you think Mohammed did so well? Because he is an unknown factor!

Carter more often than not dismisses himself...he never goes on although clearly a class player....the inclusion of Powell for Carlos B would have offseted the English also and Cornwall for Bishoo!

Years ago the WI selectors brought in Lambert and Wallace to open in a home series....up to now the English have not recovered!

 
analyst-kid 2017-03-16 17:54:38 

In reply to seaegg99

Holder seems to be learning albeit slowly. He called in on Mason and Guest show which shows he is not arrogant.

In the very last ODI he showed me some flexibility and handled the bowlers well...despite the lack of penetration.

Both K.Powell and Mohammed are challengers but they have to cement their places first.

So Holder is still captain.

 
Slipfeeler 2017-03-16 18:05:16 

In reply to analyst-kid

Well-said bro, no one even attempted to make relevant changes of players or line-up as if selectors knew ahead that we will be white-washed do why bother making any changes that is an asinine approach to modern cricket. They only made a change when our best bowler was unfortunately injured, even then if we the fans were not proactive they had intended on replacing Gabriel with Cummins for no rational reason except for national pride. Joseph turned out to be a much better ODI bowler and batsman than most others on the team, go figure!

So you are correct that changes could have given WI a much better chance of winning a match or two but the lack of vision and dynamic strategies continue to plague WI team management and selectors.

 
tc1 2017-03-16 18:30:15 

In reply to Slipfeeler


I am new to this mb, so I am assuming this is the first whitewash, the CWI has not won more than 8 games in the last 25 years.u sounding like Kelly.

 
Andy99 2017-03-16 18:45:58 

In reply to natty_forever

agree. I have not been picking anyone. Two players stood out during the ODI, J Mo and Walton. They played one.


By ODI do you mean the OD Super 50?
If so, did Powell not stand out?
Did Hope not stand up in the biggest stages moreso than anyone by quite some distance?
Did Lewis not have a decent tournament?
Paint one of the leading run scorers?

 
Slipfeeler 2017-03-16 18:46:24 

In reply to tc1

I will ignore that attempted bullyism! Anyway are you saying after two consecutive white-washes, including the embarrassing one from a minnows team, are you telling that you are satisfied? Have you accepted our status as losers? Are you saying that there are no better ODI players in the region than the current players?

 
Andy99 2017-03-16 18:50:33 

Anyways a 13 man squad I'd go with is:

Lewis
Kowell
Walton
Hope
Mohammed
Carter
Rowell
Cornwall
Holder
Nurse
Bishoo
Joseph
Gabriel

Still have doubts about Cornwall's OVERALL effectiveness given his size but we do really lack players like him. That big hitting spinning allrounder, too many 110kmph - 125kmph 'pace' bowlers who can hit.

 
Slipfeeler 2017-03-16 18:52:37 

In reply to Andy99

Andy, Andy do you have any concept about how ODI cricket is supposed to be played. Are you aware that we had 75% of dot balls in the first 10 overs? Players struggling to hit a ball and and holding up a wicket without scoring is not ODI cricket. That's why I keep telling you guys that test team was selected and not an ODI team. This is referring to your previous post not your team, it seems satisfactory! Except you omitted Ambris.
big grin big grin

 
Andy99 2017-03-16 20:19:20 

In reply to Slipfeeler

Apart from Kraigg who ok is too slow, didn't the the other guys do just as well as Waltnn, even better in the regional OD tournament?

Look the best player is always the one not playing.

Fact is our cricket is going down, our players aren't world class, there is little difference between playing this one over that one (apart from a few of the 'stars' who aren't being considered)

 
Slipfeeler 2017-03-16 20:48:36 

In reply to Andy99

What Andy? Which other WI batsman scored 129 runs from 109 balls against England? Nice try but the others were not even close! Many players are regional bullies but have great difficulty in transitioning into international players, therein lies most of young WI problems.
big grin big grin big grin

 
tc1 2017-03-16 21:25:18 

In reply to Slipfeeler

u accepted our state for 15 years, and now named a team with 2 changes, Ambris and Cornwall. Walton is a recycled player who avg is sub-digit at the international level.

 
natty_forever 2017-03-17 08:25:19 

In reply to Andy99... I stand corrected, so they picked two.
Your squad suggests you also agree. Walton could have been the dif between a white wash, true or false?
big grin

 
natty_forever 2017-03-17 08:27:51 

In reply to tc1... please define recycled? I am willing to bet house and land he would have done better than PAINT!

 
Slipfeeler 2017-03-17 08:59:16 

In reply to tc1

Nothing wrong with been recycled, Walton is now matured and taking hus cricket serious, that's the guy I want on my team rather than some guys who takes playing in WI team for granted. Actually Hope could also be considered a recycled player now he too wants to take his cricket seriously and works hard on the field, however he is not naturally an ODI player but I do admire his hard work at the game. He started poorly as an international player but now working hard to overcome his limitations.
BTW the 3 players who could have made a difference to WI ODI team are: Rovman; Cornwall; Ambris. Blackwood could also be added to list.

 
Pacy 2017-03-17 10:28:50 

In reply to tc1

Walton is a recycled player who avg is sub-digit at the international level.


Unfortunate that you think 10 matches across formats over a 7 year period is proof enough not to consider a performing player.

Most of our batsmen mature only in their late 20's. It is not as if it is Lara's and Vivs in the line up that you have a challenge finding a spot for Walton


lol