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I've said it before and I'll say it again...

 
Larr Pullo 2017-04-11 16:57:10 

Bishoo and Permaul are VERY ordinary spinners. Back in the day they couldn't even play Case Cup in Guyana club cricket!!!

Dereck Kallicharran for example, was by orders of magnitude better than Bishoo, and he never even got close to a WI pick!!!

As for left hand spinners, Permaul couldn't even carry water for Rex Collymore, and he only made it to one tour and NEVER played test cricket.

 
RemainsUnknown 2017-04-11 16:57:49 

Recall Devon Shyte...

 
Runs 2017-04-11 17:00:44 

In reply to RemainsUnknown

And Dowlin lol

 
RemainsUnknown 2017-04-11 17:02:08 

In reply to Runs

Notice how he talks about supporting WI cricket as a whole, yet the first opportunity he gets, he cuss Shiv, Bishoo, Permaul, Deonarine, etc....

 
Runs 2017-04-11 17:03:11 

In reply to RemainsUnknown

He needs to do a self inspection first before calling out others. cool
I know lots like him lol

 
Larr Pullo 2017-04-11 17:03:22 

In reply to RemainsUnknown

I supported Ramdin for captain...can't I get some credit?

 
hawk 2017-04-11 17:08:52 

All West Indian Spinners are ordinary, i am never fooled by the truck load of wickets they take, our last great spinner was Lance Gibbs, Narine looked the part for a while..but..

 
imusic 2017-04-11 17:12:36 

In reply to Larr Pullo

Dereck Kallicharran for example, was by orders of magnitude better than Bishoo, and he never even got close to a WI pick!!!

Because Lloyd pretty much enforced a policy of 4 pacers with a part timer filling the role of "spinner" during Kallicharran's time.

Didn't matter how good of a spinner you were....you weren't going to get selected at that time. if Shane Warne or Saqlain Mushtaq were West Indian at that time, they wouldn't be selected either.

 
Logic 2017-04-11 17:24:18 

In reply to imusic Looking at Permaul and Bishoo perform, maybe Lloyd was on to something. But to be fair the pitches then were more helpful to fastbowlers. We got a turning wicket and a left arm orthodox spinner can't even control the scoring rate far less take wickets.

 
Runs 2017-04-11 17:25:28 

In reply to Logic

Wait for Misbah, Younis and Shafiq. They will have a feast.

 
imusic 2017-04-11 17:33:03 

In reply to Logic

Lloyd was principally traumatized by 2 events

1 - Australia tour 75/76 when WI were blitzed by Lillee, Thomson, and co
2 - India tour of the West Indies 1976 when Lloyd declared giving India over 400 to win in the 5th innings on a QPO pitch that had a reputation of being a spinners pitch, and WI with 3 spinners...and India won comfortably.


Those 2 events had such an impact on Lloyd that he was convinced of 2 things:

1 - You had a better chance to win if you had more firepower than the opposition. And firepower to Lloyd meant fast bowlers
2 - Specialist Spinners were a waste of time. Even an average fast bowler was a better option in a Lloyd team than a specialist spinner.

 
Narper 2017-04-11 17:34:24 

Reds Perreira questions when Permaul was told he was playing in the starting XI.

Non one....not even Permaul ...could think he was going to play....when last WI picked 3 spinners

Is Permaul ODI match fit?

 
Runs 2017-04-11 17:36:21 

Today's batsmen are not fearful of fast bowlers, they are better equipped. If they bowl crap they will get a caning as we have seen with the recent WI fast and foolish lot. So you guys can dream all you want, until every aspect of WI cricket is improved and sustained they will be on the receiving end of things.

 
imusic 2017-04-11 17:37:45 

In reply to Narper

No excuse

If you're in the squad, it's your responsibility to be FULLY prepared to play if & when called upon.

What happens if a player gets injured or ill and you have to sub in at the very last minute?

 
Ninetenjack 2017-04-11 17:54:44 

In reply to Larr Pullo

Bishoo and Permaul are VERY ordinary spinners. Back in the day they couldn't even play Case Cup in Guyana club cricket!!!


Yes they are ordinary but did I dream it or did Bishoo take 8 wickets against these same Pakistanis? smile

 
Starzz 2017-04-11 17:57:56 

Captain decisions has a lot to do with their stats

 
Narper 2017-04-11 17:59:51 

In reply to imusic

If you're in the squad, it's your responsibility to be FULLY prepared to play if & when called upon.


As far as I am aware he was only told yesterday...he was in the squad

 
TheTrail 2017-04-11 18:00:50 

He now has the googly in his armoury - give him a break.

 
Baje 2017-04-11 22:08:30 

In reply to imusic
Harper got some play

 
Baje 2017-04-11 22:11:28 

In reply to imusic
Considering that the 3 spinners had a total of like 5 tests between them, I would say that Lloyd was over optimistic. Forget the fact that they were bowling at players with lots of experience playing spin (Venkat, Prasanna, Bedi, Chandra) were all in that Indian team

 
Baje 2017-04-11 22:12:50 

Bishoo bowls some very good spinners. He doesn't get wickets by accident.

 
Khaga 2017-04-12 07:35:00 

In reply to imusic


Those 2 events had such an impact on Lloyd that he was convinced of 2 things:

1 - You had a better chance to win if you had more firepower than the opposition. And firepower to Lloyd meant fast bowlers
2 - Specialist Spinners were a waste of time. Even an average fast bowler was a better option in a Lloyd team than a specialist spinner.


So started the cricketing version of the holocaust..

 
VIX 2017-04-12 07:55:43 

In reply to Larr Pullo

but ... who to put?

 
camos 2017-04-12 08:05:12 

In reply to Baje

Harper got some play



Lloydie took care of family.

 
Runs 2017-04-12 09:05:52 

The author of this thread will never congratulate the bowlers he is chastising when they do well but is quick to criticize their shortcomings. Prior to these two he was on Shiv, Deonaraine and Sarwan's cases. He has a well known agenda yet is quick to point out others. cool

 
CricketLuva4 2017-04-12 09:08:51 

In reply to Larr Pullo

The WI side is not welcoming to Permaul and hence all his failures are because of that. Not to different from Devon's "case".

If Permaul had a welcoming environment, I'm sure he'd be peeling off 5fers every game.

 
Larr Pullo 2017-04-12 09:49:26 

In reply to Runs

Ammmm Narsingh is actually a better spinner than both Permaul and Bishoo, and I've said that over and over again. Narsingh should have long forced himself into being a permanent member of the WI team if he didn't seem to run into issues with training etc along the way.

 
Larr Pullo 2017-04-12 09:51:41 

In reply to CricketLuva4

Ammm Neil McGarrell was a far better SLA with way more guile than Permaul who only knows how to bowl at one pace, and he didn't play a lot. Permaul's failures are because he's a poor bowler.

 
RemainsUnknown 2017-04-12 10:03:32 

In reply to Larr Pullo

In reply to RemainsUnknown

I supported Ramdin for captain...can't I get some credit?
Fair enough, but Ramdin has now made a fool of himself so he probably has no place in WI cricket anymore.

 
CricketLuva4 2017-04-12 13:01:51 

In reply to Larr Pullo

I'm not debating whether Permaul is better or worse than anybody. Yes Permaul is very 1-dimensional and the fact that he has such a great record shows how bad regional batsmen are, let's not beat that horse any more.

Permaul has been a failure in international cricket, many have. My question for you is how do you know whether a failure is down to being a bad player or because of the "unwelcoming environment"?

 
cricketmygame 2017-04-12 13:31:16 

In reply to Larr Pullo

could Devon smith have gotten a game for WI back in the days?

 
Larr Pullo 2017-04-12 13:42:12 

In reply to cricketmygame

Of course not!

 
Larr Pullo 2017-04-12 13:47:34 

In reply to CricketLuva4

The players not getting much support. EG, I understand Leon Johnson was told that he had a flaw and was dropped. No one took the time to tell him what the flaw was and how he should approach correcting it. So he's out the team, and of course not batting well because now his head is all muddled up; And this was after batting him out of position and refusing to let him bat down the order in the tour games.

 
hawk 2017-04-12 21:39:20 

In reply to imusic


1 - You had a better chance to win if you had more firepower than the opposition. And firepower to Lloyd meant fast bowlers
2 - Specialist Spinners were a waste of time. Even an average fast bowler was a better option in a Lloyd team than a specialist spinner.


I hold this view in principle, won't go as far as to say "waste of time" but I Like fast bowling as well, good accurate fast bowling will win you games.

 
cricketmygame 2017-04-13 09:21:46 

In reply to Larr Pullo

two yrs ago Permaul came to practice in NY

the regularity at which the boys hit him out of the park you could tell he was ordinary

having said that, how do you explain his success in local and A team cricket?