Bishoo and Permaul are VERY ordinary spinners. Back in the day they couldn't even play Case Cup in Guyana club cricket!!!
Dereck Kallicharran for example, was by orders of magnitude better than Bishoo, and he never even got close to a WI pick!!!
As for left hand spinners, Permaul couldn't even carry water for Rex Collymore, and he only made it to one tour and NEVER played test cricket.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again...
Recall Devon Shyte...
In reply to RemainsUnknown
And Dowlin
In reply to Runs
Notice how he talks about supporting WI cricket as a whole, yet the first opportunity he gets, he cuss Shiv, Bishoo, Permaul, Deonarine, etc....
In reply to RemainsUnknown
He needs to do a self inspection first before calling out others.
I know lots like him
In reply to RemainsUnknown
I supported Ramdin for captain...can't I get some credit?
All West Indian Spinners are ordinary, i am never fooled by the truck load of wickets they take, our last great spinner was Lance Gibbs, Narine looked the part for a while..but..
In reply to Larr Pullo
Because Lloyd pretty much enforced a policy of 4 pacers with a part timer filling the role of "spinner" during Kallicharran's time.
Didn't matter how good of a spinner you were....you weren't going to get selected at that time. if Shane Warne or Saqlain Mushtaq were West Indian at that time, they wouldn't be selected either.
In reply to imusic Looking at Permaul and Bishoo perform, maybe Lloyd was on to something. But to be fair the pitches then were more helpful to fastbowlers. We got a turning wicket and a left arm orthodox spinner can't even control the scoring rate far less take wickets.
In reply to Logic
Wait for Misbah, Younis and Shafiq. They will have a feast.
In reply to Logic
Lloyd was principally traumatized by 2 events
1 - Australia tour 75/76 when WI were blitzed by Lillee, Thomson, and co
2 - India tour of the West Indies 1976 when Lloyd declared giving India over 400 to win in the 5th innings on a QPO pitch that had a reputation of being a spinners pitch, and WI with 3 spinners...and India won comfortably.
Those 2 events had such an impact on Lloyd that he was convinced of 2 things:
1 - You had a better chance to win if you had more firepower than the opposition. And firepower to Lloyd meant fast bowlers
2 - Specialist Spinners were a waste of time. Even an average fast bowler was a better option in a Lloyd team than a specialist spinner.
Reds Perreira questions when Permaul was told he was playing in the starting XI.
Non one....not even Permaul ...could think he was going to play....when last WI picked 3 spinners
Is Permaul ODI match fit?
Today's batsmen are not fearful of fast bowlers, they are better equipped. If they bowl crap they will get a caning as we have seen with the recent WI fast and foolish lot. So you guys can dream all you want, until every aspect of WI cricket is improved and sustained they will be on the receiving end of things.
In reply to Narper
No excuse
If you're in the squad, it's your responsibility to be FULLY prepared to play if & when called upon.
What happens if a player gets injured or ill and you have to sub in at the very last minute?
In reply to Larr Pullo
Yes they are ordinary but did I dream it or did Bishoo take 8 wickets against these same Pakistanis?
Captain decisions has a lot to do with their stats
In reply to imusic
As far as I am aware he was only told yesterday...he was in the squad
He now has the googly in his armoury - give him a break.
In reply to imusic
Harper got some play
In reply to imusic
Considering that the 3 spinners had a total of like 5 tests between them, I would say that Lloyd was over optimistic. Forget the fact that they were bowling at players with lots of experience playing spin (Venkat, Prasanna, Bedi, Chandra) were all in that Indian team
Bishoo bowls some very good spinners. He doesn't get wickets by accident.
In reply to imusic
Those 2 events had such an impact on Lloyd that he was convinced of 2 things:
1 - You had a better chance to win if you had more firepower than the opposition. And firepower to Lloyd meant fast bowlers
2 - Specialist Spinners were a waste of time. Even an average fast bowler was a better option in a Lloyd team than a specialist spinner.
So started the cricketing version of the holocaust..
In reply to Larr Pullo
but ... who to put?
In reply to Baje
Lloydie took care of family.
The author of this thread will never congratulate the bowlers he is chastising when they do well but is quick to criticize their shortcomings. Prior to these two he was on Shiv, Deonaraine and Sarwan's cases. He has a well known agenda yet is quick to point out others.
In reply to Larr Pullo
The WI side is not welcoming to Permaul and hence all his failures are because of that. Not to different from Devon's "case".
If Permaul had a welcoming environment, I'm sure he'd be peeling off 5fers every game.
In reply to Runs
Ammmm Narsingh is actually a better spinner than both Permaul and Bishoo, and I've said that over and over again. Narsingh should have long forced himself into being a permanent member of the WI team if he didn't seem to run into issues with training etc along the way.
In reply to CricketLuva4
Ammm Neil McGarrell was a far better SLA with way more guile than Permaul who only knows how to bowl at one pace, and he didn't play a lot. Permaul's failures are because he's a poor bowler.
In reply to Larr Pullo
I supported Ramdin for captain...can't I get some credit?
In reply to Larr Pullo
I'm not debating whether Permaul is better or worse than anybody. Yes Permaul is very 1-dimensional and the fact that he has such a great record shows how bad regional batsmen are, let's not beat that horse any more.
Permaul has been a failure in international cricket, many have. My question for you is how do you know whether a failure is down to being a bad player or because of the "unwelcoming environment"?
In reply to Larr Pullo
could Devon smith have gotten a game for WI back in the days?
In reply to cricketmygame
Of course not!
In reply to CricketLuva4
The players not getting much support. EG, I understand Leon Johnson was told that he had a flaw and was dropped. No one took the time to tell him what the flaw was and how he should approach correcting it. So he's out the team, and of course not batting well because now his head is all muddled up; And this was after batting him out of position and refusing to let him bat down the order in the tour games.
In reply to imusic
1 - You had a better chance to win if you had more firepower than the opposition. And firepower to Lloyd meant fast bowlers
2 - Specialist Spinners were a waste of time. Even an average fast bowler was a better option in a Lloyd team than a specialist spinner.
I hold this view in principle, won't go as far as to say "waste of time" but I Like fast bowling as well, good accurate fast bowling will win you games.
In reply to Larr Pullo
two yrs ago Permaul came to practice in NY
the regularity at which the boys hit him out of the park you could tell he was ordinary
having said that, how do you explain his success in local and A team cricket?
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