The Independent Voice of West Indies Cricket

Message Board Archives

The Young Steve Waugh

 
Dukes 2017-04-26 10:54:15 

1.Steve Waugh made his test debut at age 20

2.Steve Waugh's first 5 tests he scored 13,5,8,0,11,74,1,1 and 0 for a total of 113 runs average 12.56

3.Steve Waugh's test average reached 20 after TEN TEST MATCHES

4. Steve Waugh's test average reached 30 after TWENTY THREE TEST MATCHES

5.Steve Waugh's test average reached 40 after TWENTY EIGHT TEST MATCHES

The Aussie selectors DISREGARDED HIS INITIAL POOR PERFORMANCES BECAUSE............

 
runout 2017-04-26 10:57:47 

In reply to Dukes

We will never know who will be WI Steve Waugh??? We don't give them a chance, as we are too impatient, and capricious.

 
StumpCam 2017-04-26 11:03:48 

In reply to Dukes

Lemme help you out Dukesy!

6. Steve Waugh was surrounded by seasoned pros, where his failures didn't affect the team negatively! He had the advantage of being nurtured by his senior mates!
wink

 
Narper 2017-04-26 11:19:26 

In reply to Dukes

Should WI continue to pick Chandrika after 5 tests?

he could be a Rohan Kanhai

big grin big grin big grin

 
Narper 2017-04-26 11:23:55 

In reply to Dukes

here is another one...to back you up

Marvin Attapatu...retired after 90 test mataches...was SL cappo as well

These were his scores in his first 3 test matches
0,0,1, 0,0, 0

After 10 test matches he was averaging 16

 
SnoopDog 2017-04-26 11:24:02 

In reply to Dukes

I recall Steve Waugh was an all-rounder when he started. The Aus selectors probably kept him as much for his bowling as for his batting.

Were it not for his bowling he probably would have been dropped at least after the first 10 Test matches.

 
CricketLuva4 2017-04-26 11:25:42 

Steve Waugh played 150+ tests.

Will WI play 150 more tests?

 
Dukes 2017-04-26 11:26:18 

In reply to Narper

Funny you should mention Rohan Kanhai. I dreamt about him last night. He was my first cricketing hero and I refuse to entertain the thought that anybody from my country can match him when it comes to batsmanship. I even mentioned Rohan as a possible middle name for my son but it was vetoed.

 
cricketmygame 2017-04-26 11:36:23 

In reply to Narper

big grin

 
googley 2017-04-26 12:04:37 

In reply to Narper & Dukes

after 5 test matches your hero Rohan Kanhai averaged 22. lol

 
doosra 2017-04-26 12:07:40 

In reply to googley

Steve Smith was about 25ish after 5 too

the key is someone knowing talent and allowing that talent to find its way

do we have talent management systems around?

 
runout 2017-04-26 12:11:58 

In reply to googley

They should have dropped him too!!! lol lol lol

 
googley 2017-04-26 12:16:48 

In reply to doosra & runout

after 10 test matches, Kanhai averaged 30.


he would have been dropped!! lol lol

 
googley 2017-04-26 12:17:40 

In reply to doosra

do we have talent management systems around?


wah is duh? lol lol lol lol

 
natty_forever 2017-04-26 12:17:48 

In reply to StumpCam...

6. Steve Waugh was surrounded by seasoned pros, where his failures didn't affect the team negatively! He had the advantage of being nurtured by his senior mates!
... stumped!

 
FuzzyWuzzy 2017-04-26 12:18:01 

Equally, history is replete with those who got long runs and amounted to nothing.

How do we know ahead of time who's a Waugh and who isn't?

 
doosra 2017-04-26 12:18:35 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

eye for talent?

or just guesswork/probability?

 
natty_forever 2017-04-26 12:19:11 

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy... and do we have 5 seasoned campaigners around to allow for a "Steve"?

 
doosra 2017-04-26 12:26:19 

Steve WAUGH's latter years tho was a lot about his own understanding of what he can and cannot do...discipline

talent can only take you so far?

 
Narper 2017-04-26 12:35:33 

In reply to Dukes

In reply to Narper

Funny you should mention Rohan Kanhai. I dreamt about him last night. He was my first cricketing hero and I refuse to entertain the thought that anybody from my country can match him when it comes to batsmanship. I even mentioned Rohan as a possible middle name for my son but it was vetoed.


There could be only one 'Babu' wink

 
Narper 2017-04-26 12:41:17 

In reply to doosra

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

eye for talent?


Sometimes the talent is spotted...but some players find it hard to make the transition from FC to tests

Classic examples are Hick and Ramprakash

Local examples are Devon Smith and Daren Ganga...Arthurton and Stuart Williams....or some would say Sir Carl Hooper too

On the other hand....anyone who saw the schoolboy Lara at the crease....would have known that he was going to be a great batsman...absolutely no doubt there

The great Lara spotted two players we all know of....Adrina Barath and Fidel Edwards...didn't quite work out as he would have liked I would imagine..

 
Narper 2017-04-26 12:48:06 

In reply to StumpCam

In reply to Dukes

Lemme help you out Dukesy!

6. Steve Waugh was surrounded by seasoned pros, where his failures didn't affect the team negatively! He had the advantage of being nurtured by his senior mates!


Absolutely Correct.

I made this same point on another thread.

Even off the ground...In the past when players shared hotel rooms...a senior was paired with a junior....strictly for mentorship reasons

 
googley 2017-04-26 12:51:42 

In reply to Narper

isn't thats why WICB recalled first Sobers then Kanhai to the 1975 WC? The team was young and wanted someone with experience around!

what happened to today's WICB?

 
openning 2017-04-26 13:23:38 

In reply to Dukes

Would you give us Steve's Shield average before selection?

 
camos 2017-04-26 14:43:27 

 
openning 2017-04-26 15:32:40 

The problem I have with comparing a 20 year old West Indian to player of the same age at the International, is the number of matches played at the domestic level.
Most youngsters in England, NZ, SA and Australia are affiliated with a team from an early age, by 17 years they are in the second eleven teams, by the U-19 level some may had already represented their County or State 1st division teams, by 20 years they may have played more matches, scored more runs and have taken more wickets, than a 26 years old player in the region.
So to compare a player per age, is misleading.
As for Steve Waugh at age 20 years, he could had been dominating Sheffield Shield cricket for some time, the selectors will therefore, give him time to settle into the team, base on what they knew of him.
Hetmyer is now making his first entry into regional cricket.
Are they anyone playing for a regional team between the ages of 16-19 years?

 
openning 2017-04-26 15:45:21 

I posted abould my wife's cousin, who was drafted by Arsenal at the age of 13 years, he parent moved with him from Toronto to England.
At 16 years, he notice his playing time was reduced and decided education is the better route for him, he is studying medicine at this time.
So lets compare a 13 years old in a County, Shield setup to a 13 years old in the region.

 
Dukes 2017-04-26 15:49:39 

In reply to openning

My dear friend,your entry above is absolutely correct in theory but not in this specific case.
The strength of Australian second and third division cricket is vastly superior to ours.This means that a teenage Steve Waugh would have been playing second division cricket which may have been at a much higher standard than some of our first class cricket.
Steve Waugh made his first class debut in the 1984-85 season and played in only 5 matches.He had 2 half-centuries and averaged 31.In the next season he scored 2 centuries,also in 5 matches with 2 not outs he averaged 58.
M---I---NO---HS----AGG----AV-----100-----50
5---7----0----223----94------31.85----0------2
5---8----2----352---119*-----58.66----2------0

He then made his debut where he was not dropped from what I can tell for at least 20 test matches.

The bottom line is that the Aussie selectors demonstrated their faith in Steve Waugh and stuck with him despite his initial mediocre performances because they knew he was going to be very good.

 
openning 2017-04-26 16:45:38 

In reply to Dukes

First I must say thanks for the update of Waugh's early years.
It will be also interesting to see his first four years at the Shield level, knowing his second year with 5---8----2----352---119*-----58.66----2------0
The local clubs in the region, should get some of the 16 1-18 years old playing for them, while attending Highschool.
We know very little of Hetmyer, apart from him at the U-19 WC level
BTW, none of that team were household names, that was setting the region on fire.

 
doosra 2017-04-26 17:25:19 

In reply to Dukes

Warne was terrible in his first 3 or 4 tests as well

if Warne were a west indian spinner ... big grin

 
Maispwi 2017-04-26 20:44:41 

When a team is winning they can afford to carry passengers. When its losing regularly coaches and players end up paying the price.

 
Raggs 2017-04-27 06:05:16 

If I remember right Jacques Kallis was total pants when he made the South African team.
Potential was right in front of your eyes but his scores were way below the mark.

 
BeatDball 2017-04-29 11:35:42 

Heheheh...I deading with laffs....precisely why I was adamant that Adrian Boring Barath should have been persisted with!