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Is healthcare a right?
In reply to black
Is access to quality grammar classes a right?
In reply to black
like air - if your life depends on it - i would say its a right - If you can improve the quality of someones life without impairing your own why would you be opposed to that?
In reply to Larr Pullo
oops - thats like asking a blind man - how many fingers am i holding up ----
In reply to black
Access to healthcare at a basic level for all should be a right to every citizen.
Where it gets political is on the word "access"
The only rights worth fighting for are: Education, democratic freedom, freedom of assembly and finally freedom of speech.
Bim has a "free healthcare" system, it is poorly managed and underfunded, but has benefited the nation. Unfortunately, and put frankly: we can no longer afford the luxury of free healthcare.
To your query: I do no think FREE healthcare should be a right. Access, that is the right of access to healthcare should be a right, and for many Caribbean countries it is LIMITED access.
In reply to pelon
What is the good of unaffordable access?
In reply to Larr Pullo
Dude, you really think I don't know that?
In reply to black
should be a right along with free education .
In reply to pelon
How can it be FREE, when citizens are required to pay taxes???
In reply to StumpCam
Which is to Larr Pullo's point: some ah wunna need grammar class. (pelon included).
skunt pelon said:
You come and ask:
Did you not see my use of quotation marks, to imply that it's not really free???
In reply to birdseye
Where does individual responsibility come in? I like twinkies and sausages just like everyone else but I know I cannot consume them everyday.
In reply to StumpCam
so nothing under the sun is free by your view?
In reply to pelon
skunt pelon said:
You come and ask:
Did you not see my use of quotation marks, to imply that it's not really free???
In reply to pelon
I learnt this recently on the "tiger woods thread." 'Attention to details' is apparently not Stumpy's strong suit.
In reply to birdseye
In healthcare PAYING or NOT paying is secondary to quality of care!
USA:
Straight to the point, google: HillBurton Act, Medicare & Medicaid
That right there is the political answer to your question.
The reality is: USA health system is fcuked if you are middle-class and above, or not eligible for Medicare & Medicaid.
It is fcuked, not because the quality of care, but because from Pharma to commercial hospitals to insurance companies to lawsuits: you end up with astronomical medical bills.
Canada:
I lived in Ontario long enough to know that OHIP is not perfect, but vastly superior to any model in the western world.
Barbados:
Paid via taxpayers, it is broken, the ones that can afford healthcare go private, and the ones that can't go to free clinics and wait a very long time for care. The "free" ER room in Bim is not healthcare by any standard.
Caribbean:
Ask yourself, other than Cuba, what model of success do we have to show?
Most of the Caribbean, if you can afford private: you pay and go, unlike USA: you don't have to mortgage your soul to do so. On that basis, you see why I said above: US health service model is fcuked.
a pleasant good day my good brother
In reply to pelon
I don't know if I agree with that, basic healthcare should be able to all, the best care are for those that can afford it.
That is like saying, "everyone is entitled to live in a mansion".
In reply to black
I am saying, that if you get "free healthcare" for a malignant tumor, that QUALITY becomes the most import factor in your outcome.
Not whether you got it free or not. OUTCOME. And predicated on outcome, we can't go down the road of saying it should be a birthright and ignore the fact that in the Caribbean, we cannot afford the level of QUALITY to offer "FREE HEALTHCARE". The exception is Cuba. (where it 'works' because a nurse earns about $18.00 per month a doctor earns about $80 - $120 per month).
Boasting that you did not have to pay for care because it was a brithright, and ending up dead... is.....
so "basic healthcare should be able to all" is where we have universal agreement.
In a country as wealthy as the US? Yes
In reply to black
there is basic healthcare now medicaid the problem is that people should not be means tested to access this service.
In the Western hemisphere: Ontario has the best model (only an opinion ok)
@camos: dat is what I wuz telling birdy above. in theory, it is supposed to cater to any that can't afford healthcare. except that to afford healthcare in USA you must have insurance, and many middle-class Americans can't afford the high insurance premiums. See my "it is fcuked" post re: USA health system
In reply to pelon
It works well in Cuba because that Nurse or Doctor did not pay one cent for their education which I may add is a first class education and they exhibit a level of pride in their profession not seen anywhere else in the western world.
That $18 and $120 a month is a little misleading because there are other perks that comes with those professions in Cuba.
In reply to camos
Is there? I don't know, maybe you can tell us!
In reply to Star
I agree. You are reading my factoid wrong. I celebrate Cuba's healthcare. I celebrate it more so if from provider to recipient they are pleased. Don't ready the salary reference wrong.
Cuba provides world class healthcare. My praise for Cuba starts and ends with the fact that they are the first respondents in a crisis anywhere. (even Ebola outbreak)
yuh reading me wrong on the Cuba factoid.
In reply to StumpCam
the term free ,refers to the cost to the user.
Nothing is free.
In reply to black
You know the rich would live
And the poor would die,
All my trials Lord, soon be over
Read more: Joan Baez - All My Trials, Lord Lyrics
In reply to pelon
The truly poor don't pay taxes, yes, they pay for consumer goods but in most cases, the Government provide the resources.
In reply to birdseye
Obamacare must be repealed if the U.S. and A wants to remain a free and powerful first world super power.
How is the nation expected to pay for the next batch of 'The Mother of All Bombs', tomahawk missiles, F35 fighter jets, 24/7 security at the Trump tower and Mar A Lago, the PussyGrabber-in-Chief's weekly golf vacation, the gov't subsidized Viagra for it's politicians?
Healthcare is too much of a burden on the system when clearly the nation has far more pressing demands on it's fiscal policy.
In reply to SnoopDog
[love wot u did dere]
perfect!
In reply to pelon
Sometimes irony is the best tool to put things in perspective Bro.
In reply to camos
Yep
In reply to SnoopDog
That is true, the same people that are railing against the deficit, have no problem with increased military spendings.
In reply to pelon
In todays developed world, especially for the great super power, why should every citizen not be entitled to health care?
How can Cuba and other poorer countries do it?
Its really a case of cost.
I think the right of health care should hold on and the case of the COST of health care be tackled head on.
Limit the use of patents and introducing generics will reduce costs by a HUGE factor.
Wholesale legalization of marijuana will take another chunk out of costs.
However, these sensible ideas would have happened already if the govt was about looking after the interests of the people. By now it should be clear to all that the govt is just an arm of the special interests. Speaking about democracy and all other such BS is a joke. Its an illusion to placate the overworked, over medicated, under educated population.
In reply to steveo
I think we are saying the same thing, for once.
In reply to steveo
Not wise, you cannot limit patents, that will kill innovation. The trick would be to control cost and still encourage innovation.
If government wants a workforce to generate a healthy economy then it should see health care as a right.
In reply to black
if you limit patent life,you can compensate by shortening the investment recovery period.
In reply to SnoopDog
In reply to black
Wise? You are telling me $1000 price for $1 value is wise?
What innovations have been coming out of big pharma? restless leg syndrome and its treatment?
In reply to pelon
Sometimes the planets align
In reply to steveo
Wise? You are telling me $1000 price for $1 value is wise?
The whole system is corrupted, hospitals, insurance and drug companies alike.
In reply to black
Patents are the top of the food chain of corruption.
The drug companies add an extra ingredient, sometimes reducing the effectiveness of the drug and re-patent it. To infinity.
In reply to black
No, it is not.
In reply to nitro
Nitro, Yuh live on Pluto?
In reply to black
Naah nitro just seem to be operating with very restricted mental dataset
In reply to birdseye
My vocab is efficient, straight to the point.
In reply to birdseye
nitro can gwaan until reality strikes.
I'll remind him again about the Christopher Darden story. He was the black prosecution lawyer on the OJ Simpson murder case, who during and immediately after the trial would verbally castigate black folk for voicing support for OJ. This continued until he was pulled over while driving his BMW 535. The fact that he was all dressed up (in his suit) for some formal occasion did not deter his treatment as any "uppity" black driving a luxury car would be. It was only then that reality struck.
A "right" in a specific society has to be agreed upon by that society. In the USA, such a right has not yet been agreed upon. Hence, it is not a right in the USA.
Most societies in history have assumed the right to health care for its members. Even primitive tribes have witch doctors. Hence, the absence of the right to heath care in the USA sticks out internationally like a "sore thumb".
In reply to Drapsey
Come on bro, Darden was correct to be upset with how we blacks were behaving. OJ Simpson was guilty as hell.
In reply to nitro
You are black bro? I thought you were Caucasian, am serious.
In reply to Norm
Most societies in history have assumed the right to health care for its members. Even primitive tribes have witch doctors. Hence, the absence of the right to heath care in the USA sticks out internationally like a "sore thumb".
People in Government need to take the initiative, just like they did with civil rights for black people, they did not wait for society to agree.
In reply to black
Sure. It is part of the democratic process (one of the strengths of the US political system). Ultimately though, it has to be agreed upon, and included in the US constitution.
Until then, it is not a right for US citizens.
(In the case of civil rights in the USA, the issue was not an omission in the constitution, but a denial of the constitutional rights of some groups on essentially racist grounds. [I added this after Black's comment above.])
It is interesting and ironic to note, however, that inmates in US prisons have a RIGHT to free health care!!!
In reply to Norm
that may be an international convention.
In reply to camos
Quite possible, but it would indicate how much the US currently differs from the rest of the world in this matter.
In reply to camos
Is the death penalty part of that convention?
In reply to black
I am speculating , I know there are strict rules about prisoners of war but not sure about ordinary prisoners.
In reply to camos
They have free healthcare because they are locked up. I don't think you can let them out to go to neighborhood pharmacy.
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