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Is healthcare a right?

 
black 2017-05-05 08:33:40 

What are your opinions?

 
Larr Pullo 2017-05-05 08:35:13 

In reply to black

What are your opinion?


Is access to quality grammar classes a right?

 
birdseye 2017-05-05 08:39:03 

In reply to black

like air - if your life depends on it - i would say its a right - If you can improve the quality of someone’s life without impairing your own – why would you be opposed to that?

 
birdseye 2017-05-05 08:41:54 

In reply to Larr Pullo

Is access to quality grammar classes a right?

oops - thats like asking a blind man - how many fingers am i holding up ---- big grin

 
pelon 2017-05-05 08:48:45 

In reply to black

Access to healthcare at a basic level for all should be a right to every citizen.

Where it gets political is on the word "access"

The only rights worth fighting for are: Education, democratic freedom, freedom of assembly and finally freedom of speech.

Bim has a "free healthcare" system, it is poorly managed and underfunded, but has benefited the nation. Unfortunately, and put frankly: we can no longer afford the luxury of free healthcare.

To your query: I do no think FREE healthcare should be a right. Access, that is the right of access to healthcare should be a right, and for many Caribbean countries it is LIMITED access.

 
birdseye 2017-05-05 08:56:19 

In reply to pelon

What is the ‘good’ of unaffordable access?

 
black 2017-05-05 08:57:04 

In reply to Larr Pullo

Dude, you really think I don't know that?

 
camos 2017-05-05 08:57:12 

In reply to black

should be a right along with free education .

 
StumpCam 2017-05-05 09:09:44 

In reply to pelon

How can it be FREE, when citizens are required to pay taxes???

 
pelon 2017-05-05 09:32:43 

In reply to StumpCam

Which is to Larr Pullo's point: some ah wunna need grammar class. (pelon included).

skunt pelon said:

Bim has a "free healthcare" system

You come and ask:
How can it be FREE, when citizens are required to pay taxes???


Did you not see my use of quotation marks, to imply that it's not really free???

 
black 2017-05-05 09:33:18 

In reply to birdseye

like air - if your life depends on it - i would say its a right


Where does individual responsibility come in? I like twinkies and sausages just like everyone else but I know I cannot consume them everyday.

 
camos 2017-05-05 09:36:01 

In reply to StumpCam

so nothing under the sun is free by your view?

wink

 
RemainsUnknown 2017-05-05 09:42:22 

In reply to pelon

Which is to Larr Pullo's point: some ah wunna need grammar class. (pelon included).

skunt pelon said:
Bim has a "free healthcare" system


You come and ask:
How can it be FREE, when citizens are required to pay taxes???



Did you not see my use of quotation marks, to imply that it's not really free???
lol lol lol lol lol

 
RemainsUnknown 2017-05-05 09:53:20 

In reply to pelon

I learnt this recently on the "tiger woods thread." 'Attention to details' is apparently not Stumpy's strong suit. lol lol lol

 
pelon 2017-05-05 09:53:27 

In reply to birdseye

What is the ‘good’ of unaffordable access?


In healthcare PAYING or NOT paying is secondary to quality of care!


USA:
Straight to the point, google: Hill–Burton Act, Medicare & Medicaid
That right there is the political answer to your question.
The reality is: USA health system is fcuked if you are middle-class and above, or not eligible for Medicare & Medicaid.

It is fcuked, not because the quality of care, but because from Pharma to commercial hospitals to insurance companies to lawsuits: you end up with astronomical medical bills.

Canada:
I lived in Ontario long enough to know that OHIP is not perfect, but vastly superior to any model in the western world.

Barbados:
Paid via taxpayers, it is broken, the ones that can afford healthcare go private, and the ones that can't go to free clinics and wait a very long time for care. The "free" ER room in Bim is not healthcare by any standard.

Caribbean:
Ask yourself, other than Cuba, what model of success do we have to show?
Most of the Caribbean, if you can afford private: you pay and go, unlike USA: you don't have to mortgage your soul to do so. On that basis, you see why I said above: US health service model is fcuked.

a pleasant good day my good brother

 
black 2017-05-05 10:18:37 

In reply to pelon

In healthcare PAYING or NOT paying is secondary to quality of care!


I don't know if I agree with that, basic healthcare should be able to all, the best care are for those that can afford it.

That is like saying, "everyone is entitled to live in a mansion".

 
pelon 2017-05-05 10:23:28 

In reply to black

I am saying, that if you get "free healthcare" for a malignant tumor, that QUALITY becomes the most import factor in your outcome.

Not whether you got it free or not. OUTCOME. And predicated on outcome, we can't go down the road of saying it should be a birthright and ignore the fact that in the Caribbean, we cannot afford the level of QUALITY to offer "FREE HEALTHCARE". The exception is Cuba. (where it 'works' because a nurse earns about $18.00 per month a doctor earns about $80 - $120 per month).

Boasting that you did not have to pay for care because it was a brithright, and ending up dead... is.....

so "basic healthcare should be able to all" is where we have universal agreement.

 
Runs 2017-05-05 10:38:35 

In a country as wealthy as the US? Yes cool

 
camos 2017-05-05 10:40:19 

In reply to black

I don't know if I agree with that, basic healthcare should be able to all, the best care are for those that can afford it



there is basic healthcare now medicaid the problem is that people should not be means tested to access this service.

 
pelon 2017-05-05 10:41:24 

In the Western hemisphere: Ontario has the best model (only an opinion ok)

@camos: dat is what I wuz telling birdy above. in theory, it is supposed to cater to any that can't afford healthcare. except that to afford healthcare in USA you must have insurance, and many middle-class Americans can't afford the high insurance premiums. See my "it is fcuked" post re: USA health system

 
Star 2017-05-05 10:43:03 

In reply to pelon

The exception is Cuba. (where it 'works' because a nurse earns about $18.00 per month a doctor earns about $80 - $120 per month).

It works well in Cuba because that Nurse or Doctor did not pay one cent for their education which I may add is a first class education and they exhibit a level of pride in their profession not seen anywhere else in the western world.

That $18 and $120 a month is a little misleading because there are other perks that comes with those professions in Cuba.

 
StumpCam 2017-05-05 10:47:50 

In reply to camos

so nothing under the sun is free by your view?


Is there? I don't know, maybe you can tell us!
wink

 
pelon 2017-05-05 10:48:17 

In reply to Star

I agree. You are reading my factoid wrong. I celebrate Cuba's healthcare. I celebrate it more so if from provider to recipient they are pleased. Don't ready the salary reference wrong.

Cuba provides world class healthcare. My praise for Cuba starts and ends with the fact that they are the first respondents in a crisis anywhere. (even Ebola outbreak)

yuh reading me wrong on the Cuba factoid.

 
camos 2017-05-05 10:54:37 

In reply to StumpCam


the term free ,refers to the cost to the user.

 
black 2017-05-05 10:57:16 

Nothing is free.

 
Drapsey 2017-05-05 10:59:25 

In reply to black

If living were a thing that money could buy,
You know the rich would live
And the poor would die,
All my trials Lord, soon be over

Read more: Joan Baez - All My Trials, Lord Lyrics

 
birdseye 2017-05-05 11:02:33 

In reply to pelon

The reality is: USA health system is fcuked if you are middle-class and above, or not eligible for Medicare & Medicaid.
I guess we should count our blessings that we all can travel on US highway 95 for a uniform cost to everyone --- how is that achievable – or is it a uniform cost? wink wink

 
black 2017-05-05 11:08:53 

The truly poor don't pay taxes, yes, they pay for consumer goods but in most cases, the Government provide the resources.

 
SnoopDog 2017-05-05 11:12:40 

In reply to birdseye

Obamacare must be repealed if the U.S. and A wants to remain a free and powerful first world super power.

How is the nation expected to pay for the next batch of 'The Mother of All Bombs', tomahawk missiles, F35 fighter jets, 24/7 security at the Trump tower and Mar A Lago, the PussyGrabber-in-Chief's weekly golf vacation, the gov't subsidized Viagra for it's politicians?

Healthcare is too much of a burden on the system when clearly the nation has far more pressing demands on it's fiscal policy.

 
pelon 2017-05-05 11:14:10 

In reply to SnoopDog

[love wot u did dere]

perfect!

 
SnoopDog 2017-05-05 11:18:37 

In reply to pelon

Sometimes irony is the best tool to put things in perspective Bro. lol

 
Runs 2017-05-05 11:23:10 

In reply to camos

cool Yep

 
black 2017-05-05 11:26:58 

In reply to SnoopDog

That is true, the same people that are railing against the deficit, have no problem with increased military spendings.

 
steveo 2017-05-05 11:39:55 

In reply to pelon

The only rights worth fighting for are: Education, democratic freedom, freedom of assembly and finally freedom of speech.


In todays developed world, especially for the great super power, why should every citizen not be entitled to health care?

How can Cuba and other poorer countries do it?

Its really a case of cost.

I think the right of health care should hold on and the case of the COST of health care be tackled head on.

Limit the use of patents and introducing generics will reduce costs by a HUGE factor.

Wholesale legalization of marijuana will take another chunk out of costs.

However, these sensible ideas would have happened already if the govt was about looking after the interests of the people. By now it should be clear to all that the govt is just an arm of the special interests. Speaking about democracy and all other such BS is a joke. Its an illusion to placate the overworked, over medicated, under educated population.

 
pelon 2017-05-05 11:45:21 

In reply to steveo


HOWEVER, THE US GOVT IS ONLY A PUPPET TO BIG PHARMA, AND THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

I think we are saying the same thing, for once.

 
black 2017-05-05 11:47:53 

In reply to steveo

Limit the use of patents and introducing generics will reduce costs by a HUGE factor


Not wise, you cannot limit patents, that will kill innovation. The trick would be to control cost and still encourage innovation.

 
archangel 2017-05-05 11:54:47 

If government wants a workforce to generate a healthy economy then it should see health care as a right.

 
camos 2017-05-05 11:58:38 

In reply to black

if you limit patent life,you can compensate by shortening the investment recovery period.

 
birdseye 2017-05-05 12:01:47 

In reply to SnoopDog

How is the nation expected to pay for the next batch of 'The Mother of All Bombs', tomahawk missiles, F35 fighter jets, 24/7 security at the Trump tower and Mar A Lago, the PussyGrabber-in-Chief's weekly golf vacation, the gov't subsidized Viagra for it's politicians?
Did you know that the speaker of the house travels on a private US paid for jet with US paid for security when he goes home for weekends, and wherever else he travels to ------ somehow that’s a birthright and not a problem

 
steveo 2017-05-05 12:13:26 

In reply to black

Not wise, you cannot limit patents, that will kill innovation. The trick would be to control cost and still encourage innovation.


Wise? You are telling me $1000 price for $1 value is wise?

What innovations have been coming out of big pharma? restless leg syndrome and its treatment?

 
steveo 2017-05-05 12:20:17 

In reply to pelon

I think we are saying the same thing, for once.


Sometimes the planets align

 
black 2017-05-05 12:38:19 

In reply to steveo



Wise? You are telling me $1000 price for $1 value is wise?


The whole system is corrupted, hospitals, insurance and drug companies alike.

 
steveo 2017-05-05 12:42:09 

In reply to black

The whole system is corrupted, hospitals, insurance and drug companies alike.


Patents are the top of the food chain of corruption.

The drug companies add an extra ingredient, sometimes reducing the effectiveness of the drug and re-patent it. To infinity.

 
nitro 2017-05-05 12:42:45 

In reply to black

No, it is not.

 
black 2017-05-05 12:45:12 

In reply to nitro

No, it is not.


Nitro, Yuh live on Pluto? lol

 
birdseye 2017-05-05 13:44:39 

In reply to black

Naah – nitro just seem to be operating with very restricted mental dataset wink wink

 
nitro 2017-05-05 13:57:05 

In reply to birdseye

My vocab is efficient, straight to the point.

 
Drapsey 2017-05-05 15:20:27 

In reply to birdseye

Naah – nitro just seem to be operating with very restricted mental dataset

nitro can gwaan until reality strikes.

I'll remind him again about the Christopher Darden story. He was the black prosecution lawyer on the OJ Simpson murder case, who during and immediately after the trial would verbally castigate black folk for voicing support for OJ. This continued until he was pulled over while driving his BMW 535. The fact that he was all dressed up (in his suit) for some formal occasion did not deter his treatment as any "uppity" black driving a luxury car would be. It was only then that reality struck.

 
Norm 2017-05-05 18:47:11 

A "right" in a specific society has to be agreed upon by that society. In the USA, such a right has not yet been agreed upon. Hence, it is not a right in the USA.

Most societies in history have assumed the right to health care for its members. Even primitive tribes have witch doctors. Hence, the absence of the right to heath care in the USA sticks out internationally like a "sore thumb".

 
nitro 2017-05-05 18:53:05 

In reply to Drapsey

Come on bro, Darden was correct to be upset with how we blacks were behaving. OJ Simpson was guilty as hell.

 
Runs 2017-05-05 18:54:10 

In reply to nitro

You are black bro? I thought you were Caucasian, am serious.

 
black 2017-05-05 18:56:45 

In reply to Norm

A "right" in a specific society has to be agreed upon by that society. In the USA, such a right has not yet been agreed upon. Hence, it is not a right in the USA.

Most societies in history have assumed the right to health care for its members. Even primitive tribes have witch doctors. Hence, the absence of the right to heath care in the USA sticks out internationally like a "sore thumb".


People in Government need to take the initiative, just like they did with civil rights for black people, they did not wait for society to agree.

 
Norm 2017-05-05 19:03:33 

In reply to black

People in Government need to take the initiative, just like they did with civil rights for black people, they did not wait for society to agree.

Sure. It is part of the democratic process (one of the strengths of the US political system). Ultimately though, it has to be agreed upon, and included in the US constitution.

Until then, it is not a right for US citizens.

(In the case of civil rights in the USA, the issue was not an omission in the constitution, but a denial of the constitutional rights of some groups on essentially racist grounds. [I added this after Black's comment above.])

It is interesting and ironic to note, however, that inmates in US prisons have a RIGHT to free health care!!!

 
camos 2017-05-05 19:07:49 

In reply to Norm

inmates in US prisons have a RIGHT to free health care!!!


that may be an international convention.

 
Norm 2017-05-05 19:13:31 

In reply to camos

that may be an international convention.

Quite possible, but it would indicate how much the US currently differs from the rest of the world in this matter.

 
black 2017-05-05 19:23:34 

In reply to camos

that may be an international convention.


Is the death penalty part of that convention?

 
camos 2017-05-05 20:04:12 

In reply to black

I am speculating , I know there are strict rules about prisoners of war but not sure about ordinary prisoners.

 
black 2017-05-05 20:36:09 

In reply to camos

They have free healthcare because they are locked up. I don't think you can let them out to go to neighborhood pharmacy. lol