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I see ppl picking their squads to Eng without much consideration given to the allrounders...yet in this concluded home series two allrounders Chase and Holder stood out and the specialist bats failed..

In the T20 series Carlos Brathwaite stood out with the bat far above all.

Spare a thought for Reifer,Cornwall,Mayers, Cariah,Primus,Greaves and co

We TOURED Eng once and guys like Lloyd,Julien and Boyce were invaluable longside the great Sir Gary.

In reply to analyst-kid

I am sure the two of them going to be there again so wouldn't that take up the all-rounder spots? Are you suggesting we drop the 5 specialist bats and play 5 of your other choices in Reifer,Cornwall,Mayers, Cariah,Primus,Greaves

In reply to Kay

analyst weed is spiked!

In reply to analyst-kid

So is not the same Chase and Holder going to England too? You was under the influence when you write this post or wa

no.... an allrounder like Reifer for example in Singh's position might have very well draw or win the just concluded season for the WI. Reifer did perform in that Prez 11 MATCH TOO YOU KNOW.

MY POINT is that in most occasions esp when you are lacking world class batsmen the allrounders would do better than the specialist bats.

In reply to analyst-kid

No Analyst. A real batsman in singh's position might've drawn or won the game. Singh's role was as a specialist batsman and he failed dismally at that role. Start with that fact.

In reply to analyst-kid

These guys are not up to International all-rounders standards, are they batting or bowling all-rounders?
Chase came into the team as a batsman, who can bowl, Holder for his height and bowling, who bats a little, are you selecting these guys, base on them bowling and batting a little?
Reifer, Mayers, Primus and others, should either concentrate on bowling or batting.
We have too many bits and pieces players, these guys are among that list.

Check the history books about the three players, positions within the team, prior to selection.
Lara once told Bravo he is a batting allrounder, luckily for BigB, T20 cricket came about, because he is not good as a test or ODI player.
We can look at Shane Watson and see he is a batsman that bowls, that who I want in my team, as an All-rounder.

In reply to openning

come on openning, Holder is a allrounder, he can bat and bowl, he is avg. 30 with the bat and bowling at 36, improving every tour.

In reply to tc1

Bro, I never said Holder is not an All-rounder.

Holder came into the team, mainly as a bowler, who bats, he has gone on to score a century in test cricket, none of the players kid wants in the team, can be considered a batting or bowling all-rounder, we just don't know their strength.
They are good regional players, but will not threatened any International team, when bowling or batting.

Last I checked you had to perform at regional level to get into the Test or ODI squad.

For example...Singh avg 35.98 (2 50s) this year, made the test team with a lower batting average than Reifer 43.20 (2 50s)...and Reifer is also a far superior bowler!

How can you call them bits and pieces player and they are averaging 40+ with the bat in your regional competition and you haven't given them a chance to prove themselves at a higher level?

The Greatest of them all Sir Gary Sobers made the team as a bits and pieces player...a left arm spinner who can bat a bit.

In reply to analyst-kid

Nah man. you out here trying to start a war on the message board or what? My man, Sobers was a genius who was the best player at just about everything on the cricket field. He wasn't bits and pieces. He was the best batsman, the best fast bowler, the best spinner, the best fielder and if he felt like it would've probably been the best wicket keeper. And he wasn't just the best at these things on his team, he was among the best at those things in the entire world. So you're either trolling or we need to consult the admin to have your posting rights revoked immediately.

In reply to analyst-kid

Question for you. Seeing that Reifer cannot even make the Bim first team. How do you rank Stoute or Primus as allrounders? I add Primus because I think he is young and might just surpass both shortly.

In reply to aliaskid13

C'mon did Sobers start out like that? He made the team as a left arm spinner who could bat a bit...know your history. At that time it was even said his brother was a better batsman.

In reply to analyst-kid

Sir Gary made the team like most International cricket stars, being strong in a discipline.
Can you tell me, which discipline these players are strong at?

In reply to seaegg99

You can call Kevin Stoute a batting All-rounder, he got as many tons as Shai and more than Brooks in the BCA.

In reply to seaegg99
I think you meant to say could not. Pretty sure based on his performances over the last several years for Guyana that
Reifer would deserve a spot in a Bim team.

In reply to openning... spin bowling. You should have directed that to aliaskid13.

... for Singh I would have settled for a bowler that bats a bit.

In reply to natty_forever

Thank you. You understood my point.

In reply to aliaskid13/ Kid

Alias, school kid:
Sobers was never a bit allrounder, at 16 , he was batting at #6 for Bim, at 3 was Weekes, follow by Frankie and Clyde , the side included Goddard and Alkinson.
in the WI set up, there were Rae, Strollmyer and Gomez, where would you expect a 17 yo to bat.
Many on this board do even know that he was a top 6 batsman for bim, he dominated the BCA as a batsman and bowler at a 16yo for Police. but he was selected for his spin bowling.

In reply to tc1

A poster once informed the MB that the great Sir Garfield Sobers got called up due to a name mix up but he made history from the opportunity. Not sure if the story is true but it should encourage young players that they should be prepared to play at the highest level whenever they are selected to play for WI.

In reply to tc1

and how does that defer from my statement that he was selected for his left arm spin moreso than his batting prowess?..A left arm spinner who could bat a bit. What he revealed after at test level was a different matter.

In reply to analyst-kid

Totally wrong on his batting, he bats at #6 for Bim and included Weekes, Worrell, Walcott, Goddard , Atkinson, Carew and those giants.

One year after his first test match, he was opening the innings against the Aussie and murdering Miller, Lindwall and Johnson.

He dominated the BCA as a batsman and a bowler, another talented player was Sandi.

I was like you too until I read a piece on him and ask about his batting abilities prior to making Bim and WI.

In reply to Slipfeeler

I heard that story too, it is said that the Bim selector named G Sobers and Garry turned up instead of Gerry Sobers who was a bit older and at the time was at sea on a ship.

Both Sobers and Holfold dads perish at sea as sailors .

In reply to tc1

Interesting information in WI cricket history.

All this you mentioned I already knew about the Great Man, but I am speaking from a holistically historical perspective.

What we called "bits and pieces" players today Barbados was producing as allrounders from the 1940s onwards

Worrell, Atkinson,Depeiza to Sobers to Brancker to Keith Boyce, Collis King to Franklyn Stephenson to Ryan Hinds to Holder and Roston Chase

If Reifer avg near 40 batting and under 30 bowling in FC cricket and also Primus and Greaves...they all have to be designated ALLROUNDERS...they have proved this at FC level...they are matching the stats of King,Boyce, Stephenson and dare I say it KING SOBERS at FC level before he turned a test player and became a living legend of cricket.

Didn't Kemar Roach last weekend just blazed a century off of 60 balls last weekend in Division One Cricket? Carlos Brathwaite made his name as an opening batsman before being considered a genuine bowler in Division One CRICKET

the "bits and pieces" moniker is only a phrase of frustration after the repeated failures of previous international hopefuls.

Reifer,Primus,Greaves and Cornwall are all genuine allrounders at FC level.

In reply to analyst-kid

My argument is that he was always a good batsmen and also a good spin bowler.

In reply to tc1

I heard the same. He could do everything just the fellas ahead were all established batsmen in Bim's lineup. Still think George Brathwaite was one of the best batsment the cricket world never really got to see.

In reply to seaegg99

George Brathwaite was from the Sobers era ? they said that Sandi was a good batsman also

In reply to analyst-kid

Bro, stopped the nonsense.
Worrell was a dominant batsman in the BCA, Denis Atkinson was one of the best medium pacers I've seen, never saw Depeiza bat, but he was my coach at Primary school, he was also David Murray's coach at Wesley Hall, Rawle was a spinner, he and Francis Scott, was , were good club cricketers.
Again I am saying, all-rounders, are stronger in one of the two disciplines, they can either save a match when bowling or batting.
Lara understood the role of an All-rounder, when he said to BigB, he was a batting all-rounder, other than the T20 format, how would you compare Dwayne Bravo to his peers, in ODI or test cricket?

In reply to tc1

Did he played for George Park in the BCL?

In reply to openning

I never heard about him, Seaegg can tell us more about him

In reply to analyst-kid

A bits and pieces player? Nah man. Reread what you just wrote. Then come again. Because it don't sound like you know what you talking about. How can you call sobers a bits and pieces player? Sobers was the best in everything. The man could bat the man could bowl the man could play spin. What you really talking about?

In reply to WerlBoss

I said nothing of that sort about THE GREATEST. Everyone knows Sobers was the best of everything. But at 17 did he start out as that...thats my point.

In reply to analyst-kid

I

You just don't get it, Sober made the team as a bowler, he had done enough to be selected as a bowler for Barbados and the West Indies.
He was not selected because he was someone who can bat or bowl, he was doing well as a bowler, thats what the team wanted.
These guys you are touting, are good club cricketers, and above average regional players, but none of them has scored any ton or take charge of a bowling attack, to be selected for any test squad.
their game is suited for 50 overs competition.

In reply to analyst-kid

Sobers made the WI team as a spin bowler, but at 16 he was batting at #6 for Barbados, you had 3 of the best batsmen in the world batting at 3, 4, and 5 . he dominated the BCA in both batting and bowling. At 18 he was good enough to opening the batting for the WI. he was never a novice batsman.

In reply to tc1

Bro, ignore Kid, and follow Springer and Holder this year.
Springer is playing for Carlton, outscoring Mayers so far this year, Holder is playing for Uwee, taking wickets every match.

You guys tripping over your mouth over and over and over.

Sobers when he started was not the greatest cricketer of all time...that is my eternal point that you keep missing...

If a guy is above average regionally what does he has to do to make a test team.../ Recently you had guys playing for WI and NOT AVERAGING 40+ in FC cricket....my point is with such a dearth of batting producers at regional level...you could as well play the allrounders who are averaging higher with the bat than the so called specialist bats.

This is Sobers first ten innings..

14*,26,47,8*,12,11,43,11,35*,64 ........= 38.71 avg 29.40 bowling
Chase avg after 10 innings is higher 48.53....so what...is Chase the greatest of all time? Was Sobers after ten innings the greatest allrounder of all time? NO HE WASN'T..

In reply to analyst-kid

You don't select a team, because a player can bat or bowl.
You are missing the point, Sobers and Chase were not considered to be Allrounders, at the start of their careers.
Chase is still considered to be a batsman, who can bowl
You are calling these guys All-rounders, like most have done with Pollard and Dwayne Smith.
Jaques Kallis and Shane Watson are true International Allrounders, they first role is batting

In a West Indies test team, with Holder batting at #7, where would the next All-rounder bat?