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Cuba Visit - Observations

 
Walco 2017-07-30 12:07:53 

Beautiful island and friendly people. Little in terms of crime, but the people are dirt poor for the most part.

Stayed in Varadero and toured Havana. Lots of old buildings in Cuba, and some beautiful Spanish architecture in Havana and elsewhere. I was surprised that the major streets were mostly free of potholes and litter. Love the old antique American cars in Cuba. They are everywhere - even in the countryside.

Cubans still use horse-drawn carts to get around, and it was interested to see them sharing the road with cars, bicycles, tricycles, trucks, buses, vans, etc. No traffic jams in Cuba because it's not swamped with vehicles.

Interesting fact -- Cuba has two currencies - Pesos and CUC. The CUC is worth more than the American dollar I think. The peso is worth much less.

The food at our hotel was terrible, so we started eating at least one meal per day at local restaurants after a few days. Much better food.

 
tops 2017-07-30 12:33:35 

In reply to Walco

Beautiful island and friendly people. Little in terms of crime, but the people are dirt poor for the most part.

But...but... me hear that bcs of poverty that's why ppl commit crime... How do you explain that?

 
pelon 2017-07-30 14:39:37 

In reply to tops

Where disparity is great, not proverty.

Cuba has little disparity between the haves and have-nots.

 
Headley 2017-07-30 15:12:09 

In reply to Walco

Thanks for the short report. If you ever visit any Central American country I would love to share your feedback.

 
Chrissy 2017-07-30 20:28:43 

The first thing I observed in Cuba was the health of the population including dental health. Then I observed the education levels.

No people who are healthy and educated are dirt poor.

And yes Cuba is beautiful and we walked up and down and drank beer on the Malecon at 2.00am without thinking about crime.

 
Star 2017-07-30 20:54:44 

In reply to Walco
I just returned from Cuba. Varedero.

Where did you stay?

We had no problem with the food so I am assuming you stayed at one or two star resort.

 
Star 2017-07-30 21:14:33 

In reply to Chrissy
Here is a little secret most people are unaware of.

Resort workers and tour guides makes more money monthly than the average American.

The bulk of it comes from tips when pooled and divided at the end of the month.

The maids are excluded from the pool. Their pay is minuscule but they are pleasant and quite happy and are appreciative of the tip (usually one CUP) per day.

 
Cheeks 2017-07-30 21:49:29 

In reply to Walco

For me...the old buildings are just soooo reflective on a place that was once prosperous.

 
Dan_De_Lyan 2017-07-30 22:30:54 

In reply to Chrissy

And yes Cuba is beautiful and we walked up and down and drank beer on the Malecon at 2.00am without thinking about crime.


You are a tough looking chick. Dem 4 bad hombres thought about it and decided not to bite off more than they could chew.

 
deanjones 2017-07-30 22:51:08 

In reply to Chrissy

I wonder why so many of them trying to exit Cuba as a fast as possible then?

 
Walco 2017-07-31 06:38:04 

In reply to tops

Your guess is as good as mine. The fact that the only people with guns in Cuba are the Police and Military may have something to do with it.

 
Walco 2017-07-31 06:40:39 

In reply to pelon

Cuba has little disparity between the haves and have-nots.

Very true. This apparently is changing though. Private businesses have been popping up since the government started allowing them 4-5 years ago.

Stayed in Varadero and took a tour to Havana in a 1955 Chevy Bel Air. Our tour guide told me her company was privately owned, and they have a fleet of 200 antique cars.

 
Walco 2017-07-31 06:46:23 

In reply to Headley

The thing that amazes me about Cubans is their capacity to endure economic hardship without showing it on their faces for the most part. Don't know how they do it.

I was told that most people working at hotels in Cuba have advanced degrees. The average monthly salary in Cuba is 40 CUC, which is just north of US$40. I was probably served by engineers and lawyers at my hotel.

 
Walco 2017-07-31 06:54:02 

In reply to Chrissy

The first thing I observed in Cuba was the health of the population including dental health. Then I observed the education levels.

No people who are healthy and educated are dirt poor.

Education and healthcare are free in Cuba. Not much else according to what I was told.

 
Walco 2017-07-31 07:05:16 

In reply to Star

Where did you stay?

Melia Paradisus in Varadero. Five Star everything (or so we were told) except for the food.

We had no problem with the food so I am assuming you stayed at one or two star resort.

Wrong assumption.

 
Walco 2017-07-31 07:20:37 

In reply to Star

Resort workers and tour guides makes more money monthly than the average American.

I doubt that this is correct. Except for Canadians, most tourists that visit Cuba are Europeans, and Europeans for the most part are bad tippers.

The bulk of it comes from tips when pooled and divided at the end of the month.

Makes sense, but I got the impression some of those tips do not make it into that pool smile I gave a $7 CUC tip to the bellman at our hotel the day we left and our taxi driver told me that was the equivalent of 10 days pay for the bellman.

The maids are excluded from the pool. Their pay is minuscule but they are pleasant and quite happy and are appreciative of the tip (usually one CUP) per day.

Our tour guide said the best job in Cuba is a hotel maid because basic necessities made locally such as soap, toothpaste, lotion, shaving cream, etc. are very poor quality. Apparently, hotel maids can make a pretty penny selling such half-used items left in hotel rooms by guests to locals.

 
Norm 2017-07-31 07:49:14 

I am always amazed that folks like to assess places like Cuba by looking at their earnings in US dollars. You would think the US and Europe were Heaven relative to Cuba, because of individual earnings.
There are lots of very happy Cubans, earning a living, getting decent education, winning lots of medals in international sports, etc. They do not fear medical bills, being unemployed, being homeless, etc.
Some run to the US for the same reasons many West Indians do - the illusion of happiness based on "freedom" that comes with uncontrolled economics and politics.
Anyway, Cuba (having fared quite well despite significant effort by the US) hardly needs the endorsement of any other country.

 
tops 2017-07-31 07:51:26 

In reply to Walco
Your taste bud is different from Star's. big grin smile
Actually, some friends have been on my case to go with them every year. they usually go in Jan/February and the more ppl book, the bigger the discount. One of the reasons I haven't gone, they look for 2/2.5 stars resorts.

 
Walco 2017-07-31 08:01:48 

In reply to tops

smile I really hope there are hotels in Cuba with better food than the one where we stayed.

The last time I booked a hotel less than 4 stars while traveling internationally was 8 years ago in China. I booked 3 star hotel near the Beijing airport for one night because I arrived late and had an early flight the next morning.

Got out of the taxi in the middle of winter and the front door of the hotel was wide open. The temperature in the lobby was the same as the temperature outside. And it did not get any better from there. I ended up sleeping fully dressed in my winter coat.

 
Walco 2017-07-31 08:08:51 

In reply to Norm

There are lots of very happy Cubans, earning a living, getting decent education, winning lots of medals in international sports, etc. They do not fear medical bills, being unemployed, being homeless, etc.

True, yet I did not encounter one Cuban who had anything positive to say about their government. One gentleman said everything the government says is blah blah blah, and everyone complained about the depressed state of the Cuban economy.

Of course, everything I say here is anecdotal. I am by no means a Cuba expert.

 
black 2017-07-31 08:28:50 

In reply to pelon

Where disparity is great, not proverty.

Cuba has little disparity between the haves and have-nots.


I don't know if I agree with that.

So people are committing these crimes because of envy and not need?

Saudi Arabia has low crimes also, it (crime) comes with a cost, like a few missing digits.

 
Khaga 2017-07-31 08:38:48 

In reply to Walco


I did not encounter one Cuban who had anything positive to say about their government.


Same can be said of the great USA right now..even if you encountered Americans who praise their administration right now,you'd probably call them "deplorable" and laugh.. lol

 
black 2017-07-31 08:59:01 

In reply to Walco

A lot of people here are making excuses for the Cuban Government because the want Cuba to be the utopia that America is not, but the truth is, Cuba sucks.

The people are a true Guage of a country's happiness, and very few have anything good to say about Cuba.

 
Star 2017-07-31 09:06:31 

In reply to Walco

Melia Paradisus in Varadero

We also stayed at Melia Paradisus. I guess it was bad luck on your part with the food.

If you did the Katamaran and the swim with the Dolphins, your tour guides would have been all University graduates speaking three languages fluently. There are 50 to 75 tourist on each of those Katamarans and just before returning to the Arena, they stop and collect a tip from each passenger. They usually collect around 350 to 400 convertible pesos each trip. One Convertible pesos is equal to 25 local pesos.

The match seems to support the amount the guides make.

 
tops 2017-07-31 09:20:03 

In reply to Walco
Actually, my brother and his wife went a few years back and complained about the taste of the food. their advice was walk with yr own sauce. big grin

 
pelon 2017-07-31 09:31:45 

In reply to black

A lot of people here are making excuses for the Cuban Government because the want Cuba to be the utopia that America is not, but the truth is, Cuba sucks.

I disagree with everything you say. No one is making "excuses for the Cuban Government". Oppressive archaic sanctions on trade would leave any leadership under pressure. You need to physically be present in Cuba and speak to Cubans. For the most part they are happy people and loyal to the socialist agenda. It would surprise you how many people in Cuba are loyal to the cause.

Is it perfect? Far from. Do detractors/defectors come to USA for the material and economic options they would never get in Cuba? Yes.... but if you listen to the person that left Cuba and that is your sole source of info... you are missing the pulse of the people.

Health, educated, safe could never be viewed as "sucks"

Cuba is a beautiful place, simple, uncomplicated & beautiful people. Visit if you can.

 
black 2017-07-31 09:37:13 

In reply to pelon

but if you listen to the person that left Cuba and that is your sole source of info... you are missing the pulse of the people.


No, I listened to Walco, he couldn't find one Cuban with anything good to say about Cuba and its leadership.

 
pelon 2017-07-31 09:52:36 

In reply to black

That was not my experience, but admittedly I went 16 years ago. (at the time my brother worked at the UN (a UN mission) in Cuba for about 4 years on and off... )

 
Walco 2017-07-31 10:00:58 

In reply to Star

We stayed at the family concierge hotel, but we also ate at the main hotel. I have stayed at all-inclusives in the Dominican Republic, Mexico, and Jamaica. I was expecting a wider selection of food at the buffet.

Not trying to be overly negative though. We had a good experience at that hotel except for the food. The beach was great, so I spent a lot of time swimming in the ocean.

We did not do the Catamaran and Dolphin tours because we had done that a few years ago in Cancun.

 
Walco 2017-07-31 11:17:30 

In reply to black

No, I listened to Walco, he couldn't find one Cuban with anything good to say about Cuba and its leadership.


I would be careful generalizing based on the small sample size - approximately 5 people.

We took a tour of the city of Cardenas and the taxi driver took us to a house that he identified as the home of Elian Gonzales. Remember him from the late 1990s? He is as pro-government as they come, judging from press reports.

 
black 2017-07-31 11:40:52 

In reply to Walco

Yes, I remember Elian and I agreed with the decision.

He is as pro-government as they come, judging from press reports


Aren't you doing the same? Making assumptions?

 
SnoopDog 2017-07-31 11:51:09 

In reply to black

The American embargoes have crippled that country Bro.

Those self righteous second generation Cubans arseholes living in Miami have contributed more to the impoverished state of that country than its leaders.

 
black 2017-07-31 11:56:26 

In reply to SnoopDog

Why can't they find other trading partners?

Wasn't Russia supposed to take up the slack?

Is it America or the system?

 
SnoopDog 2017-07-31 12:00:32 

In reply to black

Any ship going to Cuba with goods will be met with either an American gunship or a destroyer.

That's the state of affairs for 50 years now. That policy has been aided and abetted by the generous financial donations by second generation Cubans living in Miami to Banana Republican politicians. It's why Florida is so hard for the Dems to crack in general elections.

 
pelon 2017-07-31 12:09:28 

In reply to black

Is it America or the system?

The embargoes. Full-stop.

China, let me remind you, is a communist nation. Cuba is paying *in perpetuity* not for its political structure - but the defiance to the master of the west.

The audacity of Castro to build nuclear missile silos, in essence a challenge to Western World Order structure, was a bridge too far - subsequent administrations have upheld the BS ... yet Obama tried to take a new path.... sadly the new administration has decided that they will stick with what has not worked for 5 decades.

Cuba with no resources has been remarkable in the fields of medicine. Low crime. Free education. Free healthcare. For all Cubans.

Side note: Ask a black family in the south at any time in the last 60 years, if he felt America was working for them....

 
Chrissy 2017-07-31 12:13:20 

In reply to Norm

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! lol

 
SnoopDog 2017-07-31 12:14:15 

In reply to pelon

I remember reading a long time ago President Kennedy telling Robert McNamara that Cuba cannot be allowed to succeed.

The optics of a successful socialist state just a few hundred miles off the coast of America during the height of the anti-communist McCarthy era was too much.

 
black 2017-07-31 12:17:42 

In reply to pelon

China, let me remind you, is a communist nation. Cuba is paying *in perpetuity* not for its political structure - but the defiance to the master of the west.


China is Communist in name only and so is Chrissy. lol

Both are enjoying the benefits of Capitalism while praising Communism.

 
SnoopDog 2017-07-31 12:20:13 

In reply to black

China is Communist in name only


China's economy is very much capitalist.

It's governance however is very much totalitarian. Try holding up an anti-government placard in the middle of Tiananmen Square. big grin

 
Walco 2017-07-31 12:34:03 

In reply to black

Aren't you doing the same? Making assumptions?


No, my statement is based on statements made by Elian in press interviews as recently as 2015.

 
black 2017-07-31 12:47:01 

In reply to SnoopDog


It's governance however is very much totalitarian. Try holding up an anti-government placard in the middle of Tiananmen Square.


Yes, tanks have been known to run over people holding anti-government placards.

 
Walco 2017-08-01 07:26:00 

In reply to Norm

Some run to the US for the same reasons many West Indians do - the illusion of happiness based on "freedom" that comes with uncontrolled economics and politics.


The sad reality is that Cubans don't just "run" to the US. They run to anywhere not named Cuba. I have a close friend in Jamaica who has a business that employs approximately 70 dancers from Cuba. They employ them directly from Cuba based on an arrangement with the Cuban government.

The vast majority of these dancers view Jamaica as a paradise. Yes, I said Jamaica, a place where they have to fear medical bills, being unemployed, and being homeless, etc. These dancers earn money in Jamaica and send it back home to help their families back in Cuba, and some of them even marry Jamaicans so that they don't have to return to Cuba.

 
Walco 2017-08-01 07:51:47 

In reply to SnoopDog

China's economy is very much capitalist.

It's governance however is very much totalitarian. Try holding up an anti-government placard in the middle of Tiananmen Square.


Cuba will eventually follow the China model. Right now, Cuba is more totalitarian than China. The government owns virtually everything, except that they now allow some Cubans to "own" their own homes, restaurants, and private vehicles. But there are no Cuban billionaires.

Here's an example of the extent of the Cuban government's control of the economy. We did a tour of Havana, which was a two-hour drive from our hotel. On the way to Havana I told the tour guide that my kids love guinep or what we call ackee in Barbados. The Cubans call them Mamonsillos. The tour guide said we would purchase them on the way back from Havana because there would be people standing next to the road selling mamonsillos in the afternoon.

On the way back from Havana, there were no people standing next to the road with mamonsillos in the area where the tour guide had predicted. After we passed a policeman in the area, the tour guide explained that the policeman had scared them off. You see, the mamonsillos are the property of the Cuban government, and if locals are caught selling them illegally on the street the mamonsillos would be confiscated and the individuals could be arrested.

Anyway, we eventually encountered two young ladies with mamonsillos a few miles further down the road smile

 
CowLasher 2017-08-01 09:15:19 

In reply to SnoopDog

Any ship going to Cuba with goods will be met with either an American gunship or a destroyer.



What??? shock shock shock

 
SnoopDog 2017-08-01 10:36:40 

In reply to CowLasher

What???


That's what an American embargo looks like Bro.

 
SnoopDog 2017-08-01 10:40:08 

In reply to Walco

Interesting story that. I still hold the view that but for the American imposed and enforced embargoes, Cuba would have been a successful socialist state much like a lot of Scandinavian countries.

Since the 60's every American administration has had one policy re: Cuba - it must not be allowed to succeed.

 
Walco 2017-08-01 16:07:51 

In reply to SnoopDog

I still hold the view that but for the American imposed and enforced embargoes

I share your view, but there apparently are some delusional ones that see Cuba as a a great place for Cubans because it has free education and healthcare, and who apparently believe that Cubans are better off than people in other countries.

I was speaking earlier with my friend who employs 70 Cuban dancers in Jamaica. He laughed when I recounted to him some of the sentiments on this thread. By the way, my friend's wife is Cuban.

He recounted to me the story of one of the dancers who just arrived from Cuba one month ago. His company advanced US$450 in salary to this dancer because her grandmother, who lives in rural Cuba, has kidney disease and was hospitalized. Yes, healthcare in Cuba is free, but apparently the best healthcare is in Havana and it would cost US$100 to transport her grandmother to Havana so that the best healthcare would be available.

The remainder of the money was to pay for a relative to accompany the grandmother to Havana; and to payoff doctors at the hospital in Havana so that her grandmother would receive the best care. Apparently, some doctors in Cuba neglect or do not provide the best care to patients unless they receive money under the table from the family. My friend said the dancer was very worried about her grandmother's fate because she had an uncle who died previously because he was neglected by doctors at the hospital. This is a reality of life in Cuba today.

 
CowLasher 2017-08-01 18:08:38 

In reply to SnoopDog

That's what an American embargo looks like Bro.


I'm trying to understand if you're engaging in hyperbole or you actually believe that. Are you saying that the U.S. stops any ship from any country in the world from going to Cuba? How do ships carry oil from Venezuela get to Cuba?

 
pelon 2017-08-01 18:44:03 

In reply to Walco

I share your view, but there apparently are some delusional ones that see Cuba as a a great place for Cubans because it has free education and healthcare, and who apparently believe that Cubans are better off than people in other countries.


Walco, be specific here. Who here in this forum is delusional and sees Cuba as "a great place for Cubans because it has free education and healthcare, and who apparently believe that Cubans are better off than people in other countries."

You gone off on people with little context.

What is to be celebrated about Cuba is their people. Not politics. The US enforced embargo has distorted and removed the opportunity for individual wealth - and where money is everything - it left many Cubans no option but to flee. Cuba has no economic wealth. By that measure (and that is very important, I grant you) Cuba would be a difficult place to domicile. No facking delusions. But the praise is not about isms. It is for the Cuban people.

So when someone speaks glowingly about the tenacity & strength of Cuba's people - it is not out of delusion. It's a bitch to survive when the mighty USA says you are to suffer at all cost.

In my humble opinion the delusion is to ignore Americas civil rights, and point fingers at Cuba as a "failed state"

Side note: Cuba has done more for our region with fewer strings attached in times of crisis than you may know.... but that is another discussion.

 
SnoopDog 2017-08-01 19:11:25 

In reply to CowLasher

The American embargo on Cuba is not my imagination as you seem to believe. It's a stone cold hard fact.

The Americans decide what goes into that country and what goes out. That's how embargos work.

 
SnoopDog 2017-08-01 19:15:14 

In reply to pelon

The American propaganda machine has done a mighty fine job of characterizing Cuba as a failed state.

Never mind that the state of Michigan can't even provide clean drinking water for its citizens much less gainful employment. big grin

 
black 2017-08-01 19:20:28 

In reply to SnoopDog

The American embargo on Cuba is not my imagination as you seem to believe. It's a stone cold hard fact.

The Americans decide what goes into that country and what goes out. That's how embargos work


I don't think that is correct. The American embargo pertains to American goods and services.

 
CowLasher 2017-08-01 19:21:21 

In reply to SnoopDog

The American embargo on Cuba is not my imagination as you seem to believe. It's a stone cold hard fact.

The Americans decide what goes into that country and what goes out. That's how embargos work.


I never denied the existence of an American embargo; but its just that... an American embargo. Are you saying that Cuba isn't allowed to have trade relations with the other 195 countries in the world?

 
black 2017-08-01 19:27:17 

In reply to SnoopDog

Blockade

Despite the Spanish-language term bloqueo (blockade), there has been no physical, naval blockade of the country by the United States after the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962.[4] The United States does not block Cuba's trade with third parties: other countries are not under the jurisdiction of U.S. domestic laws, such as the Cuban Democracy Act (although, in theory, foreign countries that trade with Cuba could be penalised by the U.S., which has been condemned as an "extraterritorial" measure that contravenes "the sovereign equality of States, non-intervention in their internal affairs and freedom of trade and navigation as paramount to the conduct of international affairs."[5]). Cuba can, and does, conduct international trade with many third-party countries;[6] Cuba has been a member of the World Trade Organization (WTO) since 1995.[7]

 
doosra 2017-08-01 19:31:46 

the surely have one thing better than America right now

any takers?

 
SnoopDog 2017-08-01 19:34:18 

In reply to CowLasher

Of course Cuba can trade with other countries. But the US penalizes foreign companies who do business with Cuba by preventing them from doing business in America.

And of course, they routinely monitor through their military, ships that go into and out of Cuba.

 
SnoopDog 2017-08-01 19:35:39 

In reply to doosra

The greatest collection of antique cars in the world. big grin

 
Walco 2017-08-01 19:50:15 

In reply to pelon

Walco, be specific here. Who here in this forum is delusional and sees Cuba as "a great place for Cubans because it has free education and healthcare, and who apparently believe that Cubans are better off than people in other countries."

Definitely not you my friend. Not by a long shot. You are one of the more sober posters on this message board, and one of the few people I read consistently

I too think that there is much to be celebrated about what Cuba has accomplished despite the US embargo. But the fact remains that most Cubans would leave if given the opportunity. This is not an indictment of the Cuban government or socialism for that matter. Instead, it's an indictment of the US government and the silly embargo which hurts the very people its supporters claim they care about and want to help.

 
black 2017-08-01 20:16:24 

In reply to SnoopDog

Of course Cuba can trade with other countries. But the US penalizes foreign companies who do business with Cuba by preventing them from doing business in America.


Subsidiaries of American companies only.

And of course, they routinely monitor through their military, ships that go into and out of Cuba.


Who cares? Do they actually stop ships from entering Cuba?

 
Walco 2017-08-02 08:42:25 

In reply to Cheeks

For me...the old buildings are just soooo reflective on a place that was once prosperous.

The buildings in our old Havana are beautiful. But driving around Cuba, I sometimes wondered if they sell paint in that country.

 
sudden 2017-08-02 08:46:11 

In reply to Walco

you didnt see our mate Commie in Cuba, did you?

 
Walco 2017-08-02 16:13:13 

In reply to sudden

No man, but I will be looking for Commie on a future trip to Moscow smile

 
sudden 2017-08-02 16:26:44 

In reply to Walco

i would like to get my hands on a couple of those vintage cars from Cuba

 
Walco 2017-08-02 17:22:51 

In reply to sudden

Don't know if that's possible, but I will ask. My friend's Cuban wife travels back and forth to Cuba every few months. By the way, due to the US embargo those vintage American cars have lots of Russian and Chinese parts.

 
Commie 2017-08-02 21:25:37 

In reply to Walco

Well played smile

 
Walco 2017-08-03 11:45:07 

In reply to Commie

lol It's becoming increasingly difficult to draw you out. You must be really busy these days.

 
sudden 2017-08-03 12:09:40 

In reply to Walco

More like despondent. Trump tends to have that effect on his supporters. Not that Commie isn't one of them big grin

 
Walco 2017-08-04 07:00:25 

In reply to sudden

smile Notwithstanding that Commie generally favors Republican administrations over Democratic administrations because of his belief that Republicans over the years have been better for the region, I think he is more of a Clinton hater than a Trump fan.

Commie ended up supporting Trump by default, believing that the American system of checks and balances would keep Trump in check. It remains to be seen whether the Republican Congress has the balls to stand up to President Loco.