Delivering the MCC lectures, Brian Lara claims that WI decline started before him.
...despite the outstanding record of the West Indies sides of the 1980s and early 1990s, Lara felt they were occasions when the tactics they employed resulted in them "playing the game in a way it should never, ever be played."
...Despite it being a period when people in the Caribbean were "accustomed to victory after victory," Lara suggested it was a time he was "not very proud of".
Lara confessed to being "embarrassed" by the way West Indies played the gentleman's game
Message Board Archives
LARA: Embarrassed by WI but it was not me
About time someone spoke up..Kudos Lara! The so called domination was embarrassing..no place for brutality..
In reply to Khaga
What Lara said is/was true. Was this the proper forum for it? I don't know.
In reply to CricSham
Oh rass way Jah Jah deh,me know seh dem bowlers was brutal,buh dem neba wah fi kill nobaddy.
Not disputing anything he said but sometimes you need context. I would say this Lara was a master at adapting to the situation and conditions when batting. He is also a master at pandering to an audience. Again while I am not disagreeing with anything he has said he needed to provide context.
For example cricket got better when neutral umpires were introduced, it got progressively better when DRS was introduced. The issues with Holding and Croft though horrible was a reaction to extremely biased umpiring not in one game but the tests leading up to that one.
Sometimes they are better ways to hunt a Lil wok.
In reply to Ninetenjack
Lara hunting wuk?
In reply to Ninetenjack
Call it like it is...Lara is a skunt for attempting to call out Croft and Holding for reacting to what was very blatant cheating!!! Maybe it's because neither really cared for his captaincy or him as a person?
In reply to Khaga
Calls out the savagery and cheating..good
In reply to CricSham
Was holding present during this lecture as part of the audience?
In reply to gvenkat
The pipsqueak wouldn't dare (to squeak) if Holding were within a hundred miles.
In reply to CricSham
Nailed it.
In reply to Drapsey
and what exactly would holding have done?? This is not Kingston Jamaica you know!
Don't worry, Holding will have his say during the 3rd Test when earning his dough from sky sports!
In reply to gvenkat
Lara clearly read my MB posts..the draft I sent included purging of WI records,trying Lloyd,Holding and Croft at the Hague for crimes against humanity among many other things..Lara said he still has family in the Caribbean that he would like to continue visiting with..
In reply to CricSham
Bruh! For how long will the cricket world deny its Holocaust?
In reply to Khaga
When I thought you couldn't get any lower, you did it. Comparing the holocaust to stuff that happened on a cricket field, you are a piece of sh1t.
In reply to NineMiles
Holding wouldn't have to do anything. His presence alone would be enough to scare the sh*t (squeak) out of the pipsqueak.
When the greatest batsman of slow-medium and spin bowling speaks, you listen.
In reply to Devin
He muddafcked the brutal WI fast bowlers here though..
In reply to deanjones
Go take your favorite big one up yours..
In reply to Drapsey
You must be scared of Holding then!
Trust me, he's not scary at all!
Wow. Lara called out Croft, Holding, Viv, Dujon, etc.... their response will be interesting...
In reply to CricSham
Is weh Chrissy dey? She god shitting all over she great West Indies
In reply to Khaga
Purging of West Indies records??? The greatest cheaters in world cricket are not the Windies players, rather the Australian & Indian umpires and those from that 1979/80 series in New Zealand, puts then right up there with the aforementioned.
In reply to Larr Pullo
Blatant cheating went on in every country before neutral umpires.
Folks let me say from the outset that I did not view the presentation but a usually reliable source has informed me that: Lara's reference to tactics was not about bouncers or short pitched bowling. Lara was referring to time wasting tactics by West Indies players and groundsmen, players pressuring umpires etc. It had nothing to do with aggressive fast bowling at all.
What say you?
The real embarasment for me was watching the massive losses and whitewashes the team suffered under Lara's captaincy. I suspect he is trying to divert from that!
Frankly, not many people remember the events against England and Pakistan but I was proud of the reaction against New Zealand. The guys stood up for themselves.
In reply to Courtesy
Spot on!
In reply to NineMiles
Thanks Ninesey.
In reply to NineMiles
... hello, we nuh stay like you, bad only a you yaad.
In reply to Larr Pullo
Ha ! Ha!
Did that hurt?
In reply to Devin
How many different ways do you wish to cut the knife, you utter skunt......
In reply to deanjones... you have time for that piece a shyt, that [beep]!
In reply to natty_forever
Come now, edit quick b4 ban hammer fall.
In reply to Courtesy
Lara sey quote:
"playing the game in a way it should never, ever be played."
He condemn the entire set up, ah so me seeit
talk nah mikey
If it wasn't about intimidating bowling among other types of gamesmanship,why didn't Lara say so,why leave people in doubt.Almost every country accused the West Indies of intimidation from their fast bowlers,how true it is I wouldn't know.
In reply to natty_forever
Wow!
I think that Lara has no argument. Well, not after taking the unprecedented step of changing the team at the coin-toss (so as to include his countryman, Merv) provided him by the selection panel.
In reply to Verstehen
It's so easy to rile up these racist muddafackers. Oh wait, black people cannot be racist.
In reply to JOJO
Yes they do. I interviewed devon Malcolm sometime ago and he was massively pissed off with what the trinis did on that day to ensure there was no result.
Lara has a point. Had WI lost under viv things would have been different
In reply to Devin
That escalated real quick with natty
In reply to gvenkat
Rasta no racist, maaaaan. Irie.
So does chrissy have a opinion on any of this?? Since lara dissed WI and their playing ways.
I listened to the entire lecture and it was very clear lara really admired viv till he met him. Perhaps it's all water under the bridge now. But seems like viv had an intimidating presence
In reply to Devin
but where in the world is Chrissy? She hiding?
In reply to Drapsey
And he did all that with the Team manager, the mighty Viv sitting in the players Pavilion... and you think he's scared of Mickey mouse Holding??
News Flash Lara.
The game has evolved and West Indians are not obligated to maintain
or be caretakers of the game of cricket.
I am disappointed at what amounts to cheap shots at former players.
OK..you walked when you knew you edged the ball, but Ian Healy stumped
you with his finger and you were still out...another time Steve Waugh
grasses a catch and claimed it as legitimate....on both occasions you
were out like a bulb. So much for this spirit and puke you refer.
I'm amazed that you took this as an opportunity to berate and put down
West Indies cricket, old and new, in front of the old masters, as if
WI cricket needs another nail in its coffin. Some of the previous posts
suggest that you make these comments in the safety of your cocoon when
you made references to past players. In terms of grit, fight,
fierceness and never say die displayed in the 80's...I would take Mikey,
Viv, Robert's, etc....any day over any performance, individual or team
that was produced by the West Indies in the past 22 years...Even Croft
from those days, prior to his dark adventure.
Amazing that 25 yrs after our warriors left the scene, the former masters
have been able to find a mouthpiece to belittle West Indian achievements.
I have never heard an Aussie remonstrate any Aussie team past or present,
and we know...there is plenty that can be said of the Wonderful Aussies.
It still hurts the masters, it hurts some Khagas who are only to
willing to jump to the master's call on demand. That a team of individua
misfits from somewhere behind nowhere could have defeated the best and
the worst that was thrown at them for 15+ years...unforgivable to this day...
Very pathetic knock Lara....you could have chosen any topic angle to present,
but instead..you choose to eat your own.
WI cricket is at its lowest, cant get any lower than it is, but I will not go
on a public forum as you have and proceed to denigate as you have done.
In private...definitely.
has Lara spoken on Pollard's actions?
Seriously????
What is the point??? And the worst things he referred to????
BCL no need for the rehashing of bad narrative.
In reply to tops.. willing to take a ban. Call my frens that.
In reply to Verstehen... you to!
In reply to Devin... I'm Indian you fart!
In reply to gvenkat
Difference--Devon Malcolm played in the game. Therefore, it stands out for him. But ordinary folks do not.
Fact is, most West Indians who follow cricket remember the countless white washes and the losses within three days. These are the embarrassments.
Lara was fishing for some bullshit.
In reply to JOJO
I won't mind him being gracious, and even a bit biased. But to be blatantly grovelling! I am already forgetting Pollard's noball. How do the WI go beyond this, when this is an indictment of the entire West Indian dominance?
Lara referred to events in the 1990 series against England as "disturbing" and suggested that seeing his heroes behave in such a manner was "one of the saddest moments in the world".
One instance in a game in 1990 was one of the saddest moments in the world, really?? Mikey and Croft must be very tempted to respond
In reply to runout
He seems very bitter
In reply to Runs
Bro. I don't mind him being bitter. WI have an uncanny way of handling the heroes of the past. I don't know of any other team with this distinction like WI.
My question: where is the diplomacy? And why England??? BCL I am sure will perhaps wince when he reads what is written.
this week is absolutely disgraceful for me as a Trini
Lets see what he said occurred.
1. Croft and Holding did two things that they should have been punished for in 1980 before our winning streak started. So clearly this was not a reason we won for 15 straigt years.
2. In 1988 some dubious umpiring decisions helped West Indies. What de hell that had to do with the way the palyers played? Dubious away decisions was the order of the day and that is why we had neutral umpires. I recall series in Pakistan when there were two tief outs every match against us. Our players certainly didnt tief anyone out against Pakistan.
3. In 1990 Lara's country men wasted time and did a poor job as groundsmen.
4. Viv appealed vociferously and the umpire yielded. Players all over the world appeal vociferously when they think the batsman was out.
So based on these few incidents which in most cases had little to do with the players, Lara decided that we we did not play cricket right for 15 years...smh. All of those hard fought matches in Australia, New Zealand, England, Pakistan, India,..where we did not control the umpiring and no incidents..yet he want to tar and paint that whole period of achievement.
Lara only cares about Lara. That attitude rubs off on the team. Remember how demoralised the teams he captained were?
I think it was 2003 when a team captained by Lara toured England. I took my son to get a couple of autographs. The players in question were so demotivated it seemed they didn't want to be there.
A great player but not necessarily a great person.
In reply to mikesiva... see that now.
In reply to natty_forever
Also Lara didn't see eye to eye with Richards over his non selection when Richards was captain. That comment about Bailey and umpire Barker is clearly a dig at Richards.
In Pakistan Lara told Richards that he Lara was a better batsman than he Richards. Whereupon Richards promptly benched him!
Lara also undermined the captaincy of Richie Richardson. He was upset when the selectors gave the captaincy to Walsh and he then proceeded to undermine Walsh. Lara felt so guilty about what he did to Walsh that he expressed a reluctance to go to jamaica for fear of being booed.
Lara has a track record.
In reply to natty_forever
Don't worry natty, no one is perfect!
In reply to NineMiles
In reply to Baje
Lara said no such thing! He criticised specific incidents. He never said the years of domination is damaged by those incidents.
You are being disingenuous by misrepresenting what he said!
In reply to NineMiles
In reply to Baje
Lara didn't speak about the 800 pound one in the room..he will talk about it in another lecture..
In reply to Babylon
Spot on..barging in to the umpires..kicking stumps..
In reply to johndom90
Johnny,you say you will do it in private..Lara is much bigger and has more credibility and he did it publicly..
In reply to mikesiva
2004..WI were in the middle of their asses being whitewashed..there was no mound to party on in that cold rasshole country..were you expecting the players to be in high spirits?
I am "amazed" at Lara's ability to speak so authoritatively of a 1979-80 tour by West Indies. A tour that happened when he was ten years old. I almost thought he was in the dressing room when these things were happening.
In reply to Khaga
you have no credibilit to speak on WI Cricket affairs.
BCCI have enough corruption and graft to dissect.
Cockroach must stay out ah fowl business!
In reply to johndom90
I am so shocked to learn that BCCI is corrupt..
On a Caribbean MB,I must discuss the affairs of WI cricket and pay attention to the memorable lecture by a WI maestro.
Very sad and disingenuous of him not to speak about de backstabbing after de 2003 WC against my favorite Hoops! Lara once again prove what an idiot he is, it's about being self served!
In reply to MasterP
Lara can be a fraudulent ass-kisser when he is ready. Brilliant batsmen, great mental strength at the crease but otherwise a superficial mental light weight on and off the field.
Lara had enough batting ability to carry a talent-less team on his back but being a narcissistic loser he ended up being a liability to team success.
In reply to Logic
Spot on. This is so Lara blame heveryone
I hope Sammy lend or give him dat Pacifier! Such a crybaby, poor Viv!
In reply to Babylon
Uncle Ton maybe?
In reply to Wally-1
???
In reply to Wally-1
Uncle Brian
In reply to Ninetenjack
Agreed.
In reply to Ninetenjack
Agreed.
In reply to Headley
What the consumate panderer says depends on the audience he needs to pander to.
Unfortunately the back story behind this is the real issue.
I hope Lara gets back on his feet.
In reply to natty_forever
So you CAN be racist....
In reply to Khaga
Misch dich nicht ein, skunt!
In reply to Commie
What's the backstory Commster?
This is the first one of those lectures used to bash that players former team, and not speak on the game as a whole.
They need to make Sangakarra the permanent speaker and not let people like BCL near a live microphone ever again!
In reply to Larr Pullo
#LloydtoTheHague
[b]In reply to CricSham[/
Uncle Tom hmm. I guess all the years we suffered at the hands of poor decisions because of bias Umpiring went unnoticed because we learnt to play the game of Bullying we are at fault and should have continued to be rolled over.
And we are at fault for batsmen not walking etc how touching. A great batsman but would we say a great embarassador for West Indian cricket. Someone who most forgave for what appeared to be the demise of our cricket. I seem to remember an English cricketer in particular who never walked and was around for a very longtime also a great Indian cricketer who did not walk either. I remember West indies v Indian in Trinidad Adam Sanford having that individual out caught and he did not move. Comms claiming edge so faint he did not know. Lol
I bow my head.
In reply to Domic
My friend, I think you need to read the thread more carefully. I did not use the phrase "Uncle Tom". I was asking the poster of that comment what he was referring to since I am not sharp enough to grasp what he was saying.
And now after reading your post I am even more confused. Please explain.
I concede that Lara could have felt a bit of disquiet at some of our tactics but citing Viv surviving a close LBW appeal, as an example of us not playing the game the right way, is utter garbage!
What should Richards have done, walk on an LBW decision? That makes no sense and smacks of Lara straining to settle old scores.
I support Lara on batsmen walking and admired him for his gracious gesture of almost always walking when he thought he was out, regardless of his own score but I have never heard of a batsman walking for LBW.
I did think that maybe there was some misreporting when I read what Lara was supposed to have said. It just seems so inappropriate at the very minimum. I can't figure out what is the purpose of these comments in that forum at this time or at any time really for a West Indian person to make.
There was no "misreporting"; I saw the video of Lara's lecture.
In reply to jacksprat
Think he was embarrassed by the home-town umpiring decisions in that instance...not Viv.
Look, I think Lara went OTT with his criticism of the WI champion side of the 80s/early 90s but let's be honest when quoting what he said accurately! That's not difficult!
In reply to NineMilesLara is talking bull shit, let's go back when W.C Grace played cricket. Here is man who cheated so much that some of records should not be part of cricket. He did not walked, he actually abuse players on the pitch so when he out, he actually stayed. Also let's go to the body line tour by England to Australia in the 30's when Jardine used 8 players on the onside, and told Larwood to bowl at the Aussie batsmen with short pitch deliveries, that create a political storm, with Australia almost leaving the British Empire. Then updated a bit, when the England captain had go at the Pakistan umpire it Mike Getting. Holding and cCroft, went through hell with a racist umpire in New Zealand. Who did not want us to win. Who went out with a Tin bat Lara? Who called names when your batting? Lara. The Aussies. I don't know where he has been. Now he attacking, the greatest team ever taken to the field. I know for sure Holding, and Viv, won't take this lying down.
In reply to jacksprat
Graham Thorpe.....on a `slower delivery` from Cuddy.
....nearly halfway back to the Pavilion before the umps could reach his holster!
In reply to Cleg
Ok, fair enough
In reply to Cleg... he got out to that on at least 2 occasions if I remember correctly.
If Lara really wants to talk about hometown decisions, tell him go look at that LBW appeal against him in the famous test match vs Australia at Kensington.
The umpire was this Guyanese (can't remember the name now).
In reply to Commie
What happen to Lara why he need to get back on his feet. He broke?
In reply to Larr Pullo
In reply to natty_forever
Direct opposite of our colleague, Devin. Aren't you?
In reply to Drapsey.. I'll take that as a compliment.
In reply to natty_forever
Wait so that comment still up?
If it was a certain 'N' word it would've been instant ban and a blow by members of the forum.
So it goes.
In reply to Andy99... not if N word call the other the N word is banter.
In reply to natty_forever
Nah, under any circumstances certain folks would've bowl a gasket.
I did not listen to lecture but in your opinion was Lara ill prepared to deliver this lecture
In reply to tc1
He admitted leaving it until the last few days before putting pen to paper.
People can cuss as much as they want... Lara shoulders broad enough!
Dup...
In reply to tc1
I don't think he was ill prepared, just lazy to prepare so they handed him a script and he read and read and read to the end...
In reply to Kay
In reply to natty_forever
You 'to'? You 'to'?
So, not only are you racist,calling someone a coolie, but also a moron who can't spell.
I bet people's IQs drop off a few percentage points just being in the same room as you.
Or you 'to', that is.
Lara's Spirit of Cricket 2017, driving folks to consume strong spirits and cuss in 2017.
In reply to Verstehen... BIG CB, because you nuh know patois me caan help you! And notice all now a nuh cuss Lara, is them who akin WEst Indies dominance to that of the holocaust!
Who the cap fir wear it!
In reply to natty_forever
Man you take your win and go. Just having to read your spew makes one feel soiled.
In reply to Verstehen... well go clean up yourself and wheel and come again, CB!
Where in the world is Carmen Twissy?
Your god piss and sh... all over the great WI. Wot say you, Chrissy?
R u hiding? come out come out
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