West Indies team- B-
Bowling- B A good overall performance despite taking the first game off.
Roach- B. We all know he has the experience and the ability but in his last outings for the maroon his desire and fitness was in question. He showed lots of desire and good fitness on this tour.
Gabriel- C. He has to solve his no ball issues.
Holder= B+ He did his job as a 3rd seamer very well.
Bishoo- C- A victim of being under bowled.
Cummings- D
Joseph- D-
Batting- D
Shai Hope- A+
Kraigg- B
Kyle Hope- FF
Chase - D-
Blackwood- C-
Dowrich- F
Powell- D
Holder- D
Coaching - A
Commentary Holding- A
Lectures and other comments Lara- FF
Message Board Archives
Grades for the tour
In reply to methodic
Co-sign
In reply to methodic
Holder I'll give a B. Blackwood still thinks he's playing T20 and 50 overs cricket he gave away his hand in the 2nd test getting stumped. Chase regressed.. joesph is young Could it be that the lords pitch was a look good bad pitch. I wouldn't change much maybe another Quick,but let them grow. Just keep the cowardly ares suckers TTs off the forkin test team..
In reply to hairline1
Pot calling the Kettle Black!!
Or more appropriately
BOOT LICKING THIEFS calling others Names
EPIC
FUNNY AS FCUK
In reply to methodic
Good marks.
In reply to methodic Can't lil Shaney get a....D?!!
In reply to methodic
reasonable with the exception of the grade for captaincy, probably a B- there.
In reply to thefacts
With a name as hairline 1,
you don't expect any semblance of knowledge do ya ?
In reply to methodicHow did you arrive at B- with all dem D and F. Please expound for my edification. How Holder so lucky so lucky to have 2 grades. What are your recommendations for the next series?
In reply to methodic
Come on man. How can Coach get an A grade when his team loses a series and performed miserably in the discipline of fielding? How many catches did we drop in the series? Fielding is probably the easiest thing for a coach to improve after taking over a team.
Seems like you grading this fella on a curve
But you are not the only one. Lots of people are blaming Holder for the underuse of Bishoo, and nary a word about the coach's obvious role in that decision.
In reply to methodic
Also, your Bishoo grade is harsh. Aren't you supposed to be given an opportunity to perform before being graded? An incomplete would be more appropriate
In reply to Walco
I agree about de fielding but the amazing stat is that England drop more catches than us
In reply to Oilah
I have been trying to point that out but the sycophants are all focused on how much Dow dropped.
catches whilst important are not the only determinant. Eng floored more but won the match yeah, so it means that they either batted better than us or bowled better, correct? In this match they batted and bowled better and that is where we lost. Also look at how many of our players were bowled. And when a catch is dropped it doesn't mean the game is over. Create another chance. Blimey, sometimes we are so thick and one dimensional.
Critical thinking is a blessing, ent?
I would give the coaches a F for the decision to bat first at Lords in overcast conditions when they knew that their batsmen were suspect against swing bowling and after just winning the previous Test batting second. Also, the coaches have to make the players more aware of the situations of the game, many times some batsmen got out playing shots that were inappropriate for the stage of the game. I would give the captaincy of Holder a D, he is too defensive on many occasions, Stokes was the main beneficiary of that strategy to save runs.
In reply to sudden
The key difference however is that Dowrich is a wicketkeeper and is expected even more so than regular fielder's to take the catches that come his way.
In reply to Driva Everybloody is so hard on my bwoy...so, how many catches did he drop?
In reply to Driva
that is not the key difference. that simply means Dow did not fulfill his role as the keeper. one might want to argue that with a young team struggling all chances are crucial but when examined closely this match was lost becos we did not bat or bowled as well as Eng.
Cook and Broad dropped multiple catches. is that to say that their role is not as important as Bairstow's?
In reply to sudden I luv it when there's a rational individual around.
In reply to sudden
My simple point is that your wicketkeeper has an extra responsibility to take his catches. It's not just about the chance missed it is also about the fact that a sloppy keeper affects the confidence of the entire side.
In reply to BeatDball
Not sure perhaps about 4 in total not to mention byes and fumbled takes. Overall hiss keeping was not up to standard and I'm sure it affected his batting.
In reply to Driva I'm glad you are a safe driva! You make sense. I wanted him to make it up with the facting bat...it sure would have negated the avalanche of criticism heaped on him.
In reply to Oilah
True, but we are not grading the England coaches. I was simply commenting on the A grade for the WI coach.
In reply to dayne
To be fair, it was not overcast when the decision to bat was made, and I don't believe the forecast was for overcast conditions all day.
In reply to Driva
you can argue that Dow did not represent his role as a keeper well but are you saying that only drop catches by the keeper will deflate a team? really?
man i am not saying all this to say that Dow should not be dropped but to say that when one is examining an issue, one must be careful to find the true problem?
if Eng dropped more catches that the Windies and still won the game, were drop catches our problem or only problem in this match?
if we drop Dow will our problems with catching go away?
focusing on Dow and the keeper position may hinder solutions to other issues like overall fielding, certain batting positions, change bowlers, spin bowlers, captaincy and coaching
In reply to BeatDball
Well I hope so
I think he can bat doesn't seem to be making the adjustment to international cricket as yet
In reply to sudden
Dowrich's dropped catches should not be compared to other fielders because he was wearing gloves. A comparison to Bairstow's performance would be more appropriate. Bairstow made it look easy during the times I was watching.
But I am not on the drop Dowrich bandwagon because I think he has lots of potential as a batsman. The coaching staff have some work to do with him though because New Zealand is up next in December and the ball is known to swing a bit there as well.
My Grades
Braithwaite - B
Powell - C
K. Hope - F
Shai Hope - A+
Chase - D
Blackwood - C+
Dowrich - D-
Roach - B+
Holder - B-
Bishoo - D
Cummings - D-
Joseph - D-
Reifer - DNS
Reiter apparently (Did Not Sit final exams)
Straight swaps for next series.
1. Chris Gayle for Powell if he's serious. Evin Lewis opening after Gayle retires
2. Darren Bravo in at 3
3. Sunil Ambris and Jason Mohammed to strengthen the middle order.
4. Ramdin and Hamilton are superior options to Dowrich
5. Theres still a place for Jerome Taylor, fast tracking the 2 young pacers from Tallawahs needed. Can Beaton on push for a place ?
Spinner- seriously ???
In reply to LBW375
How does Kyle Hope get an F
But Dowrich gets a D?
illuminating that Gabriel is not even on your list and he played 2 test matches, yet Reifer who did not play, is
In reply to Walco
i was discussing his keeping as mush as i was looking at how we lost the game.
BTW his batting was equally bad. he looked scared, like a deer in the headlights.
some say his keeping may have affected his batting but i think it was the opposite.
In reply to sudden
Dropped catches by the keeper is one of the ways that a team may be deflated. One of not the only.
Remember the role of a wicketkeeper is also that of a motivator, strategist and leader roles which are difficult to fulfill when your glovework is faulty.
While I'm not saying that his failures are the sole cause of our loss or even the determining factor it's still a weak area in the team that must be addressed.
In reply to Driva It sure breaks morale when the keeper isn't keeping! Also, when teammates drop catches. A more focused assessment after the NZ tour....what say ye?!
In reply to BeatDball
Fair enough
MUST BE DROPPED:
Powell
Kyle Hope
Dowrich
SHOULD BE DROPPED:
Cummins
CAN BE DROPPED:
Reifer (Boot Licker Quota Pick)
PUT ON DROP ALERT:
Joseph
Jason BL Cappo for LIFE
STATUS QUO:
KB
Blackwood
Chase
Bishoo
Hetmyer
STATUS IMPROVED:
Shai Hope
Roach
Gabriel
TIME TO GIVE A CHANCE:
Lewis
J Mo
Ambris
TIME TO BRING BACK:
Lil Bravo
Ramdin
In reply to sudden
I actually don't remember seeing him bat on this tour. I was talking about the times I have seen him bat previously.
In reply to Walco
As far as the slips catching is concerned, these players are accustomed to slow low pitches in the Caribbean. A swinging ball coming faster and higher takes some getting used to.
I could see the work the batting and bowling coaches putting in. It will take some time to see the full results.
Bishoo is a C+ bowler. So that's par for the course
In reply to methodic
That's a poor excuse. The WI team was in England 3-4 weeks before the tests started. That's plenty time to practice fielding in English conditions. By the way, Kieran Powell, one of the dropped catch leaders on the team, lives in England with his British wife whenever WI duties allow.
In reply to Walco
To be fair to Powell, Dowrich did unsight him in 1 and possibly 2 of those drops.
By the time the test series came around the players had to realize dat they had to keep their eye on the ball longer while batting and fielding
In reply to Walco
You would t be alone.
Blink and he was back in the pavilion
In reply to Walco
The dropped catch "leaders" on the West Indies team were Kyle Hope and Dowrich
And hope didn't have Dowrich diving in front of him or moving toward a ball and then pulling back at the last minute either.
In reply to dayne
The decision to bat first was taken in bright sunlight according to the commis
i was discussing his keeping as mush as i was looking at how we lost the game.
BTW his batting was equally bad. he looked scared, like a deer in the headlights.
some say his keeping may have affected his batting but i think it was the opposite.
The quality of this excuse deserves an A++
In reply to imusic
I did not keep a running tally; nor did I watch the entirety of each match. I only remember seeing Kyle Hope, Dowrich and Powell drop two catches each.
In any event, I only highlighted Powell because the discussion was centered around adjustment to catching in English conditions.
In reply to Maispwi
I don't think he was unsighted on either catch, but he was definitely distracted. On the first one Dowrich pulled his arms back while diving for the catch, and on the second one Dowrich started and stopped but did not dive. Powell nonetheless took a catch that had the commies raving.
Was there another Powell/Dowrich drop that I missed?
In reply to methodic... Blackwood - D
In reply to Walco
In reply to natty_forever
So not being sure is justification for placing all blame on the captain?? I mean ... it's not like underuse of Bishoo just started in England.
In reply to methodic
A grade of "C" for Bishoo makes no sense given your reason.
Aren't you being illogical in your reasoning?
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