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your beloved newborn kid to your almighty and BAM!!!!! the whole church collapse,everybody including the baby is vaporized..


I don't know bout allyuh but best dem did go drinking and sinning that day instead..

People allyuh god either does not care,is inefficient or plain old twisted,that's wicked irony..and I don't need a book to tell me that.

In reply to bravos

It's the work of the devil, the devil has infiltrated the church.

In reply to bravos

So, wait. That time in Florida when a nightclub fire killed about 100 people - that was fake news?

No, no. Those were really religious people offering up their firstborn, under the guise of partying.

In reply to Norm

Try as I may, I just can't make sense of your post as it relates to bravos'.

As for the Florida nightclub incident, it must've been God's punishment for some evil carrying-ons in some nightclub (we can guess what those might be). Justified?

But what would be the justification for destroying the church especially when such destruction coincides with the newborn's 'baptism' into the faith?

So confusing.

Nothing like when people have got it all wrong and then try to discredit God at every turn.
I would say more but I already know that beliefs here are so ingrained that it makes no sense arguing.

Hopefully the believers will keep the faith and not be swayed.

In reply to archangel

Correct. You can't argue with stupidity.


//

In reply to bravos

Bravos where in the Bible does it promise that bad things won't happen to good people while they are alive?

In reply to Ewart

Do you want to know what stupidity is? Stupidity is giving your hard earned money to an idiot in church in hopes of getting to a place you don't know exist.

I must say, the Nigerians have adopted this scamming technique very well.

In reply to bravos

Wait, you saying the Big G should take care of the building codes too?


As the World Crumbles, believers will be faced with challenges to their belief. Luckily, there's a religious explanation that can be pulled out, such as "It's a test from Big G" or "People's wickedness" or "It's a sign of the end times" or ????

In reply to Curtis

At least thou couldeth shielded the faithful with thou palm.

In reply to nick2020

But isn't everything part of thou plans,didn't thou know that was going to happeneth in his house?

If for nothing else,at least prevent it for good marketing and good press. Any human with the slightest of objectivity should question this,else what yuh really worshiping him for? Oh I forgot,the afterlife!!

In reply to black

The devil is the church..

In reply to Drapsey

Lol yeah thanks Drapes!! They want we to continue to live a lie..

In reply to archangel

Yeah keep faith that at least he wouldn't let the church building fall on yuh..

Your'e living a life of lies,you can be good without following that book that tells you to scorn your mother sister and daughter,or the sick. You read what your bible said about sick people and men bollocks?

In reply to Ewart

Sad and may come across a bit crass but the point has to be made.

Stupidity is going to a place to worship some version of god for protection and the church building falling on you..they would've been better off in a rum shop..

Also stupidity is a big hard back man like you blindly worshiping a book of barbarians from a long long time ago. Even in decades and generations traits and language change,imagine a couple thousand years,if you want to hold on to archaic misguided stories as your life well tough,the foundation of the bible or any holy book is fundamental human decency righteousness etc which the bible holds no monopoly on,but the bible only dedicated a couple paragraphs to decency and more to disgusting man ego and filth.

Open your eyes before it's too late brother,it would be a shame living an entire life on a lie and wasting precious time chasing a ghost which if even existed clearly has no care for your carcass or that of worshippers in 'his house'.

Typical man ego endorsing a proposal that this was made for us by a god of our likeness,if horses had arms they would draw gods in their likeness,even the killer beans do it..

Obnoxious entitled man at his best again..

In reply to Ewart

Stupidity, is me having to pay for the sins of others. It's a good thing man's law does not operate on the same principle or we would all be in prison.

In reply to black

Man has long surpassed the god that they propose.

'God' can learn a thing or two about compassion and forgiveness from man.

In reply to bravos

You absolutely dodged the question.

Nowhere in the Bible does it say good people beget good things.

The sad reality is this:

1. People of faith are trying to be good people. Are you?

2. People of faith believe their faith will be challenged and they will be persecuted.

These posts fulfill the prophecy.

In reply to bravos

Like the kind of forgiveness people extended to the likes of Abu Bakr?

Or maybe that isn't called forgiveness?

In reply to Ewart

The irony is mind boggling.

I don't know who Bravos and black think created us all. I guess nothing.

Which even by the Church of science is stupid.

In reply to bravos

Don't think your reasoning is intellectually sound.

The same thing happened to a group of guys in Haiti who were in a liquor establishment.

Just for argument sake, can we extrapolate that the worshipers in the Church were all heathens, pretenders, false prophets?

Won't the destruction be justified the same way you seem to accept justification if it had occurred in a rum shop?

Just going by your own statement above.

In reply to Star

They would've been better off in any building but the church,for the least a church 'the house of god' should be a sanctuary from any peril,it's a farce otherwise. I'm certain that brothels and drug dens in the area enjoyed better fates.

It's amazing how man dodges reality to keep fantasy alive,lemme guess "for the church is inside thou",yeah "we are the church",not the building ent..

In reply to nick2020

I wish not to delve into this non argument any further with you,it is hard to reason with believers of witchcraft wizardry barbarism genocide jealousy and blood sacrifice to name a few. This is a big joke and I don't intend to waste precious real time on fantasy trivia.

It's baffling that these holy people the foundation and guides of humanity didn't know the earth was round and that the sky wasn't a retractable glass dome ornament.

In reply to bravos
I understand where you are coming from but in any rational discussion, one cannot rely solely on subjective views.

Isn't it logical to assume that this particular church was also built by heathens, pretenders and false prophets?

Quite a conundrum, don't you think?

In reply to bravos
"FANTASY TRIVIA"as you mention is what it is,nancy story is what I call it.I will never thump any Holy Book.

In reply to Drapsey

My point was that misfortune could befall anyone - worshipper, sinner, agnostic, etc. God does not seem to be a factor in any case.

In reply to nick2020


Who created God ?

In reply to cricketmad

The same thing that created us.

What does science tell us on the matter?

And that is my issue with the "scientists" who just dodge the question.

Who created us? At least the people who believe in a boat carrying more than one of every animal are at least trying.

The rest of us are cowards.

I can at least respect a man for whistling at a mango in a tree having faith it to fall to the ground. I have none for the guy who walks home hungry.

In reply to nick2020

Never thought of it in this manner but I must say that is some heavy logic right there.

In reply to nick2020

Real crazy logic there,forget respect,I'm sorry for the man who whistles at a mango tree and expects a mango to fall.

I respect the man who recognizes he has to either climb,use a stick or wait for a mango to fall by the wind or by maturity,but if he whistles often enough he may catch one falling from natural causes and claim it fell because of his trick,very familiar..

You clearly a little sheltered guy with no real life experiences,very cute and innocent.

Bless you son.

In reply to Star

You have to be insane to call that logic..so anything we choose to come up with is logic?

Show me the man that whistles at a mango tree to get a mango to fall in his lap and I'll show you a man going home hungry.

You guys are unbelievable.

In reply to nick2020

Who are you, confucius?

In reply to granite

Bless them bro..

In reply to black

No just confused..

In reply to bravos

In reply to black

By the way, I am in Houston, the city is thriving again, good thing they didn't wait for miracles.

In reply to black

Conspiracy theorists are saying that the weather was manipulated to create these storms so that things can sell again and the economy will boom. Sorry for the minor inconvenience they said.

In reply to Runs

Everything they don't understand is a conspiracy.

In reply to black

His statement about the mango tree is a perfect example of the primary function of their 'faith',and that is comfort 'food'. Even me summon some father or guardian in adversity,be it lifting something heavy or dealing with other challenges,it is innately human to have the need to be looked after,protected and assisted,and even that was introduced to our psyche at one point or the other.

These bible thumpers are mostly harmless thank god they don;t really follow that book,it woulda bin bloodshed and plenty hurt female relatives,and old uncle Frank with his big and small balls and one short foot wouldn't stand a chance,not to mention all the fabrics that would have to be banned..

The poor children wouldn't understand the above,they only read garden of Eden and Noah.

In reply to black

I have heard so many WTF's, I just stay quiet. I noticed one thing that is common amongst these types, class cutters and bad students.

In reply to bravos

Ridiculing people though Bravos only entertains people who lack the ability to think.

It lends very little to the debate.

So who/what created everything you know? Do you have an idea?

In reply to Runs

Just idiots.

In reply to black

Family members too, I say it like it is to them. If you dumb fcuks had stayed in school or study your schoolwork, you would know how to fact check and not believe all the crap on the internet, grab a fcuking book or take a college course and read instead of relying on social media to give you dumb fcuks an education.

In reply to nick2020

No and nor do you..

Difference is I don't claim to know like you do..any man that claims to know a creator or god is a liar.


I know,unless.. god gave him a 'sign'.

In reply to bravos

Faith bro, some men claim to have a lot of it, I do envy them, I was not blessed with a lot of that, only questions.

In reply to nick2020

So lemme get this straight nick,ridiculing someone who lack the ability to think means that I also lack the ability to think?

Obama ridiculing Trump means he (Obama) lacks the ability to think?

Your'e a great piece of work nick,with all the goal post shifting moves of a true to form believer..

It is useless trying to have real discourse with people who don't respect the simple rules of engagement,basic rationale and basic logic.

Keep whistling at the trees nick,in the meantime I'm investing in a cherry picker,and not the type used to cherry pick preferred scriptures,a REAL one,we'll see who ends up going home hungry.

Runs

Heaven and hell is here and now.

So obnoxious is man that he refuses to accept that when he dies it's the end.

In reply to bravos

I said clearly that is who you will entertain.

Why are you offended? You are the one who called me sheltered with no life experiences and confused. I did not take offense.

Bravos is it fair to say that you have no idea who or what created us?

In reply to bravos

In reply to bravos

Given how this thread has gone though you actually are not the one investing in a cherry picker. You are the one going home hungry because you are satisfied in knowing God is not the answer despite not presenting an answer of your own.

You are laughing at the guy who got the answer to the question wrong while you left it blank.

Isn't blank also wrong?

Like a mango tree out of season I am sure this discussion will be equally fruitless but the only thing I can impart is the entire progression of humanity is founded on people trying to answer questions not leaving them blank.

It is far more important to be open-minded instead of "smart".

In reply to nick2020

it's open-mindedness have me here,don't know about you ..

I think you confusing open mindedness with personal beliefs of fantasy . I am open to anything that is real and probable,and that bible story just aint,just like the whistle activated mango tree,does that make me close minded?

Even if there is a god I think I'm in good stead because 'he' certainly ain't none of the above and would be proud of me for standing up against these man made lies.

How obnoxious of little mammals to believe the creator of all this desires a close relationship with them,so much so 'he' cares who they sleep with,what they eat and what they wear,please stop insulting the real force which you know not of and holds no favor for you..

For it is my open mindedness that gave me the courage to fully utilize my 'god given' ability of reason logic and rationale.

In reply to nick2020

When has God helped anyone?

They always throw in, "God helps those that help themselves". In other words, you have to do it yourself.

In reply to bravos

Even if some part of a man survives, whether through a known or unknown means, the question of identity still remains. Why would the spiritual remains of a man care to still be John Smith, if worldly needs don't matter anymore? If John Smith lived 10000 years into the future, would he still want to be John Smith after accumulating 10000 years of knowledge? Put another way, would the amoeba that evolved into an elephant after millions of years still want to be an amoeba? I think not!

So, I personally agree that a person's identity dies with his death, but I do not exclude the possibility that some part of him survives - sort of like the accumulated knowledge that passes on through a species undergoing millions of years of evolution. So, when religious folks talk about John Smith being resurrected as John Smith, I have a problem with that. When ancient Greeks talk about John Smith moving on to the Elysian Fields as John Smith, I have a problem with that.

Unfortunately, many religious beliefs - except the Buddhist concept of nirvana and Hindu re-incarnation - are based on the assumption that the survival and well-being of a person's identity after death is what is most important.

Nevertheless, I think there is value in some aspects of religion. It warns us of the cycle of destruction of human society by out-of-world forces and advises us that moral strength will be needed for human society to survive that destruction.

That makes sense to me.

In reply to bravos

How did everything you know come to be?

In reply to nick2020

.

Some of it was taught to us, some of it, we learned from experience (trial and error).

One thing we do know is, wishing for things to happen is fairytale.

In reply to black

In other words you black don't have a clue.

In reply to nick2020

In reply to Norm

But that elephant from a single cell gets me tho

Chuch biology I suppose..

In reply to nick2020

You always coming up with "fancy catch phrases" but never any freaking substance.

You always try to appear as the smartest person in the room but you NEVER provide the answer.

In reply to nick2020

Neither do you or any man that claims to know..

We going round in circles...

In reply to bravos

Why are you ducking the question?

Bravos if no one knows then why say someone is wrong?

So someone believe Jesus is the son of God and that God created the heavens and Earth.

You don't know who did. I don't know who did. Who are we to say they wrong?

In reply to Norm

I respect your contribution,the only point I'm making is none of us really knows and it's annoying hearing men constantly lying on a pulpit.

In reply to black

You never asked me a question black.

And I studied Socrates so I am well aware of how ignorant I am.

Having the answer is dangerous. Asking questions is progressive.

In reply to bravos

Religious peeps says their belief in "faith" makes them know it is the truth.

"strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof".

Evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins criticizes all faith by generalizing from specific faith in propositions that conflict directly with scientific evidence.[56] He describes faith as belief without evidence; a process of active non-thinking. He states that it is a practice that only degrades our understanding of the natural world by allowing anyone to make a claim about nature that is based solely on their personal thoughts, and possibly distorted perceptions, that does not require testing against nature, has no ability to make reliable and consistent predictions, and is not subject to peer review.

In reply to nick2020

If no one knows, no one knows.


Who created God?

In reply to Runs

Yep but make no mistake I fully acknowledge that a major section of humanity needs religion as a guide or foundation if only to tow the line of decency as designed,that I have no problem with and maybe it's necessary simply because it has become our psyche,but at some point in your development you have to say "it did it's job but it's time for me to really make that big step into reality ".

I have no problem with certain aspects of religion being a moral guide,but I would also like the proponents to admit that many aspects are immoral and simply a reflection the human traits of the time,and in acknowledging that anyone with the slightest of rationale would realize that it's not what it's purported to be,it's simply one brand of many similar man made philosophies.

Any man claiming to know god is mentally ill.

In reply to Runs

That about sums it up, they also try to block others from expressing an opposing view.

In reply to black

Just love the typical male dominated family business template.

Reminds me of Trump.

Trump Jr is the son of Trump and Trump created the Trump tower.

In reply to bravos

Any man claiming to know God is a liar.

In reply to bravos

Any man claiming to know God is a liar.

In reply to black

Always maintained that,even in this thread, I just took it up a notch because they believing their lies now,so they totally deluded...

In reply to Runs

That's my man. Genius!


Him along Hitchens,Harris,Sagan,DeGrasse Tyson and a couple others.

This turning into a tolduso debacle

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan

Failed Sciences.

I dare those of faith to watch the first vid above,or at least the second half of it.

Or at least these last few mins if yuh can't bear it

**Evil voice laugh MMMUHA HA! HA! HA! HA!

"The truth is that without this convention of good manners which pervades our society faith couldn't withstand criticism because it has no resources with which to do the withstanding"

"How can you defend a position when there are by definition no arguments in it's favor"

Yummy!! Now that's some soul food right there! MMMMMMMMMMMM...

Some people need to have that faith, need to believe in something better, a higher power in order to get thru life.
With all d shit that goes on everyday if thats what they want then leave them, nothing wrong with that.

D worst set ah people religious or non religious is d people who try to force they views and beliefs into other people.

In reply to Andy99

Correct we all need some inner voice,but not to the point of damnation and persecution as religion dictates,and that's the problem,even kids are labelled,segregated and education deprived etc.

And what we saying is our position does not require belief but don't try to force your beliefs unto us,through Government education or forced culture etc..

In reply to Andy99

You are very smart young fella.

But the reason why we persecute people is we by nature have a herd mentality.

If you don't drink alcohol and you go out with your friends I guarantee one of them despite knowing this with offer you a drink. We justify our behavior outwardly and society shapes much of our moral values and belief system.

I wish we live and let live in this world.

In reply to bravos

Wouldn't this include not ridiculing people for their beliefs?

The topic:

In reply to bravos

Am on same page with you brother, we share many similar views.

In reply to Andy99

The worst part is that many of these people who force their views and judge are hypocrites. I find any man or woman who can go to a podium and judge and lambast others to be pompous and damn jackasses. I have heard many a longwinded diatribe, it is mainly to big up themselves and show off their bit of "religious knowledge". That stuff do not impress me.

In reply to nick2020

It's one thing to bullshit with friends, it's another to be intolerant. And this intolerance is guided by their beliefs system, not peer pressure. They are intolerant of other religions, gays, lesbians and anyone who doesn't meet their religious test.

In reply to Drapsey

give dem enough time - they'll find an excuse

In reply to Runs

God is great! Nuh matter how many try to compete against him, he always comes out the Winner! Can any man stop the church from collapsing, can they stop the night club from collapsing? Why do we still have hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes and tsunamis? Man is too fixated on material achievements and enjoy material things but as soon as something goes bad it's GOD'S fault! Think hard bro!

In reply to WestDem

Man is good at seeking a scapegoat for his problems or a diety to call upon in times of need and distress. Coping mechanisms.

In reply to Runs

I always belief if you can be a better person for all humanity by focusing on whatever it is go for it and always give thanks to higher being... GOD!

Independent thinking folks know when to accept you effed up but it's very few that can do that!

A Serious Question: Does god prevent or cause events, in context do you really feel a "god" elected to decimate Dominica?

Yes or no or detail.... but would love to see good men like (Ewart, powen etc.) tackle question in a pragmatic way, with insights beyond: "We must not question the will of God".

In reply to pelon

Science enables us to assess whether events are rare or likely.
But human emotion is a part of any planning strategy.
Just ask yourself: Do I act based on what I know, or how I feel?

tectonic plates in constant motion, grinding against each other along faults and building up stress

volcanoes explode with the force of an atomic bomb, others spill rivers of gently flowing lava.

if u are in a Hurricanes belt, it has many ways of doing u harm, including high winds, storm surge, and flooding.

“Tornado Alley,” where most of the world’s tornadoes take place.

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan

I am not sure what you are saying to pelon. I am firmly rooted in scientific discovery and curiosity bro. My career is predicated on scientific evaluation.

I will never accept that a deity sent a SPECIFIC hurricane or tornado, (science helps me understand why)... that will bring controversy and cussing here I am sure... but that is my foundation.

Prayer however is a POTENT tool in times of crisis for many, and it is to be respected for its role. I respect all peoples opinion and to challenge it is not in anyway disrespect.

I act in any moment on the collective of my knowledge and instincts, both run through my pea sized brain, and I respond (mostly wrong) accordingly. If you differ, please respect my limitations.

I prefer to be wrong, so that I can learn.

In reply to pelon

Well said

In reply to pelon

When you refer deity, I just want to make sure you are using it in the context of all religions here and not being specific to Hindus?

Science helps us understand why it is happening but for one minute did science ever try to stop these disaster at the root cause? Hurricane for example is started when that 72 degrees ocean water temperature is linked to whatever, why can they get rid of it at de depression state?

In reply to pelon

I was answering your question....i never studied you.

In reply to WestDem

Banas they said Haarp and messing with weather by scientists cause it.

In reply to Runs

I know that but how is God getting blame?

Forget religion, do you believe in a universe power and do you believe in reincarnation?

In reply to WestDem

Who on here is blaming God????? Help me out

God never stopped this clown

In reply to WestDem

I am amazed at the details and exactness of things in this universe, no randomness. I am also a believer in the scientific explanation of things. I think we may be remnants of a vast civilization that has it's origins in other world's and long left us . Was it created by one deity? That is beyond my limited IQ, modern miracles may convince this sceptic.

Guys thanks for a very interesting discussion. Not inclined to join right now, maybe later, unless She decides to smite one or all of you.

In reply to Headley

Thy rod and thy staff will comfort her valley when it is dark...or something

In reply to pelon

How about the science that you put all your trust in? Does that prevent catastrophes? Do you rave and rant about fake scientists and fake theories as a result of "science" doing nothing to prevent catastrophes?

In reply to Norm

Natural science...get out of the way.

Engineered science you can stop and counter act.

you know better!

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan

But, does it? Take US medicine, for example. Despite all its supposed excellence, is it given where needed? Is it given to Africa, where millions die of preventable and curable diseases?

Why does a virtual "God" get cursed, when real men of science are much worse?

In reply to Norm

those are different issues. non-science;

Those African countries have no natural resource for the west to recoup their money.

Sufferation continues for them.

It is all about the almighty dollar.

In reply to pelon

The whole topic is insensitive really.

There was loss of life by no fault of the people. My thoughts are with the families.

Time to move on.

In reply to nick2020

Bro.. stay the course and make your belief known! They are the reason de world is fcuked up! Case in point , someone who told me they don't believe in god said this to me " thank god I don't believe in god"!

In reply to Norm

Good brother Norm.

The beauty about the scientific community is that it is fallible. Imagine a system where whatever is written is.... well.... gospel (infallible)???

Your child calls and says he got HIV from a woman... will you turn away from the science? Have you suffered from the Bubonic plague recently? What about polio?? The case of clap your hands for Jesus.

You get my drift? If we hold our flags and ignore the other, we get nowhere.

Can prayer cure or eradicate polio?

I hope you don't say yes.... but I respect you no less if you do.

Very much so, science has taken us out of darkness.

In reply to WestDem



The world is the way it is because man is by nature good. And evil. Regardless of their beliefs.

A calm and reasonable voice in closing..

Thank you all..

In reply to Runs



Also thank you for the discourse Nick ,Ewart, Star et al...

I read as much of this and similar posts as possible but I don't engage in "argument for argument's sake." Neither do I engage in discussions about "religion."

When I sense that a question is asked because someone is searching (as against deriding) I feel encouraged to help in the search for answers.

The truth is this: We will never KNOW the answers to most of the questions we ask about the Christian God since many are in the realm of mystery. However, I am quite happy to let whosoever will worship whatever gods they want, and not condemn them. Neither do I expect to be condemned or sneered at because of my beliefs (although it happens). I will also, if I sense sincerity, express my beliefs.

And that is what it is all about: beliefs -- faith. My faith is at the level that no argument will shake it. And I am perfectly happy to allow any man/woman to feel the same way about their own faith.

If anyone wishes to engage in discussing issues like Christianity vs religion (since for me they are two completely different things) I will be accommodating. I am also open to speaking one-on-one about developments in my own life that have strengthened my faith.

//

Oh no,,,here we go..

In reply to Ewart
as you have noted, i have a reverence (pun?) for you that while rare, should not preclude me from prying open your thinking.

Your post above is the most you've ever said on topic here. I celebrate your faith. I respect your faith. Faith and belief is a choice, not a conclusion.

Case closed.

Long may you lead.

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan

Is it? Aren't all our modern ways, except art, founded on science? We base our political decisions on "scientific" methods and studies. We even bomb each other into oblivion, based on the efforts of science.

Yet "God" and Bible-thumpers get cussed stinkin' - because their way is "not scientific".

No wonder we are reaping what we are sowing through "science", and loudly blaming "God" and "Scriptures' for it. Very smart indeed!

In reply to Norm

Norm, why are u binary in thought?

Can you find me one instance of someone here loudly blaming god. I find yuh too defensive after hours.

In reply to pelon

We obviously have no control over the outcome of prayer, but we do have control over the products of science. Does science prevent natural and man made catastrophes that plague mankind? Do you go around cussin' science and scientists because it doesn't?

A one-sided attitude towards religious matters is the smart thing of the day, and all the science backers rush to comply. That is the same dogmatic approach that accompanies every "smart" position of every era.

In reply to Norm

I thought my work was done here but you still don't get it.

It is to say that the basic platform on which your beliefs stand is totally flawed,in other words if the scriptures are to be taken seriously and God and his son Jesus is the only answer they should have a grip and influence on all proceedings,and the original proponents of the philosophy should've at least been in tune with the basic characteristics of Earth and Nature,we not talking rocket science here,we talking about teachings that promote the sky as some retractable ornament and the quarantine of women during their menstrual cycle.

But as usual the goal post shifting and the cherry picking persists.

The fact that you have to come here and argue for your faith is an indictment on it's credibility.

No science here..

In reply to nick2020

Ultimately, the world's most powerful people today throw out science and give in to the primeval impulse of self-gratification. Had science been truly in control, leaders would have been more concerned with the state of the entire human species, and not only those that could keep them in power.

The rich nations worry about Brazil's poor wiping out the Amazon forest, because of the loss of biological diversity and oxygen recharge. They worry that valuable medicinal plants could be lost before even being "discovered".

Yet these same people care nothing for the diversity of humanity! So, it's okay if world's poor die in the millions, despite the ability of the rich nations to protect or cure the afflicted among the poor.

Though mankind has developed significantly in science, he is still a social savage - worse than the wild beasts that kill for food.

Religion at least attempts to address issues of social government and places the responsibility squarely on the shoulders on man, without pretending that acceptable standards originate from an unbiased source, called "science".

The practice of religion is all screwed up, but the basic issues of religion are of utmost importance. We are ignoring them at the peril of the entire human race, as others have apparently done before.

In reply to bravos

I suppose you will declare next that "science" is not "totally flawed".

Seems like you started this thread, cussing religion again, as you and a few others are wont to. So, who came here and started arguing about "faith"?

Somehow you seem to think that everyone will automatically concur that religion should be cussed and derided, supposedly for failing to protect men from catastrophes.

Now that others are pointing out that your vaunted "science" is even worse than religion - because it is known to have the capacity to prevent some of these catastrophes and chooses not to - you and your science buffs (rather poor science buffs at that) are crying foul.

Go back and do your research - even if that amounts to finding stuff online. When you have your own thoughts on the matter, come back and hopefully do a better job at cussin' religion, or whatever else you care to argue about.

In reply to pelon

What? Seriously?

This thread, for example, and many, many more.

In reply to Norm

I've look, I see no one blaming god... help me find one post

In reply to pelon

I suppose "god" prevented you from finding this in the lead post to this very thread:

In reply to pelon

Why God though?

Civilizations scattered over distance and time all have a personal spin on the same thing - an all powerful Creator.

Coincidence?

In reply to nick2020

Ignorance.

In some civilizations, God has 20 heads and 40 arms.

In reply to Norm

Scientific discovery is simple:

Framework thru observation of a repeated occurrence.

We can deduce that:

Point will post in all caps.
Devin will post a tribute to Kohli.
ProWi will post anti-Trump rhetoric.

Where is the scientific approach to the repeated occurrence of God's influence on just about every civilization? Arawaks, Caribs, Aztecs, Mayans, Greeks, Romans, and on and on all believed in a Creator. Why?

I get it; walking on water and raising from the dead is scientifically silly but that is really superficial analysis of the bigger question of why do we in general believe in God and continue to do so? That is a far more intriguing discussion than whether God did or did not do what we expected of him.

In reply to Norm

Exactly my point. He is not blaming a god. He is suggesting that only a cruel god would kill innocents (does not care). If he wanted to smite evil (is inefficient)he would be more targeted.

Blame is to say: god did something... Bravos has made it clear he does not assign any task to a god... and his post is to say: man if he did he is cruel, inefficient and spiteful even to innocents like children.

It wont be long before you quote scripture to justify your position on the death of innocents IF a god sent a hurricane or earthquake.

Understand that his post is NOT blame it is "open yuh eyes"

In reply to black

Read my last post. Ignorance by definition is not knowing. That does not explain the fact that there is too much coincidence in the underlying principle of a creator.

In reply to pelon

pelon there is no way that could reasonably be your takeaway from the lead post unless bravos retained you as legal counsel

In reply to nick2020

People back then was just dumb, (no fault of their own).

Just like they thought the earth was flat.

In reply to pelon

To put the shoe on the other foot if there were mass casualities during Trini carnival and BatQuake said they should have been in church instead of sinning I would have popped some popcorn and watched the fireworks of cussing bravos would have leveled (rightfully so).

People died. The post was in poor taste. Would you agree?

In reply to black

People thought the earth was flat because it looks flat. That is not dumb; that is scientific observation.

black I would like you to open your mind.

So all these different civilizations believed in a creator and in general continue to do so because they were/are dumb and you are smart?

That is simplistic and flawed.

By the way you have much of your foundation of science from Africans, Greeks et al who according to you were God fearing and "dumb".

In reply to nick2020

That is why I said, "no fault of their own".

Their limited understanding of how things work, did not allow them to understand it/them beyond, how these things appeared.

I have seen it with older folks today, their understanding of how stuff works, is enough to make you break out in laughter but I would never do it, out of respect.

Just imagine going back a few thousand years.

In reply to black

Again the foundation of your math comes from these simpletons.

Calendars, Astronomy, Agriculture (think of irrigation) are but a few things from past civilizations.

No black these people were not country bumpkins.

In reply to nick2020

They were all, country bumpkins.

In some ways, it was not different than racist/racism, their understanding of race, is based on what they see and hear, not what they know.

In reply to Norm



Blaming your god would be acknowledging your god.

I reject the story of the god of Abraham and all other man made deities.

I look at myself as a simple and flawed human being who really makes an effort to be humble,righteous and empathetic and not vindictive jealous and petty,and I say to myself any real god has to be better than me.

In reply to pelon

A true voice of reason...(not the Soca variety)

In reply to black

Hopefully you are sitting when you read this.

Albert Einstein believed in God.

Apparently he is a country bumpkin and you are smarter than he was.

A famous phrase used on this site: Dis done.

To bludgeon a point home: So did Newton.

In reply to nick2020

The point is nick your religion purports to be the one and only true answer,never forget that.

Now you guys here compromising and twisting as you go along? What all of a sudden the bible is no the answer?

You may not compromise the holy book.

In reply to bravos

My religion?

None of what you posted is applicable to my views.

In reply to nick2020

That has been rubbished and disproved by Hitchens and Dawkins.

They even tried that with Dawkins ...

In reply to bravos

What is rubbish? That Newton and Albert believed in God?

Really now bravos. Really.

A Quote for you to research if you so desire:

In reply to nick2020

I said they rubbished it..and it has been widely acknowledged that some scientist have had the ailment despite their information.

And even so this isn't about some scientist personal belief without evidence,this is about truth..

Full circle

In reply to nick2020

And intelligent being has the likeness of man ent! ! lol poor you.

In reply to bravos

Bravos let me make this really simple for you:

Stop conflating a creator with what you know as organized religion.

There is absolutely no question in my mind, or Newton or Einstein, that there exists a creator. And any and every inconsistency you find in the Quran, or KJV really does not change that. You were created by your parents. Everything you know to exist was created so why on God's name would you stop thinking that someone or something did not start our existence?

For all we know this is one big test tube.

In reply to bravos

Did I ever say that? Our creator may be a Martian.

In reply to bravos

That comment is laughable. So the grandparents of much of our science views on creation cannot be taken seriously. They had ailments?

What a thing.

In reply to nick2020

And there we have it ladies and gentleman my point has been made for me!!

Even some of my grandmother's real world beliefs from not too long ago cannot be taken seriously today and nor should they be.

RIP grandma..

In reply to nick2020

Oh well ok then tell that to the bible thumpers..

Anyway enough now,you not getting dizzy? Later..

In reply to black

Better pray that Ayenomal don't show up now..

And like snoop fed up of these school boys,don't blame him..

In reply to bravos

Last question:

Do you think it is possible that everything you know to exist was created by something or someone?

Not the father of someone who turned water into wine. Someone more powerful than us?

In reply to nick2020

I'm leaning toward a powerful spontaneous event laying the basic foundation for life or possibly a 'seed' from a wayward alien life form,it can boil down to simple coincidence and right conditions created by an event,we crawled on our bellies,died of our teeth and suffered and suffered almost an eternity to reach what we are today,who's plan was that exactly?

Do you know the progression of our development? We didn't just come out of a human mold and placed in some enchanted garden you know that right?

I think the bigger picture is man in his limits of understanding and physical order chooses to simplify our existence by concluding 'someone' had to make it for a purpose,just like he would a table or utensil.

I never claimed to know but I am not buying no man's version of god.

In reply to bravos

You just spelled out one:



The event or the alien would be our creator. So on that note I would like to propose that whether it is a multi-armed elephant or a talking bush or the seed of an alien you all in principle agree that we were created. It is like two fellas talking about a pretty girl they see in the dance.

Man she look like Halle Berry.
No she was like Janet Jackson.

Either way she was hot.

In reply to nick2020

I never proclaimed it as truth or had faith in it,I have faith that if I continue to work hard and live right I would be a successful human being.

This thread has way passed it's usefulness. You better hope I don't whistle..


Have a blessed day my son.

In reply to nick2020

Am busy at work, but I can't help noticing that bravos and his gang are trying hard to run away from the mess they started - with their tail between their legs too!

Just hold them down here for about 6 more hours ...

In reply to Norm

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Joke of the day.

What a great spin in all it's glory!

In reply to bravos

Norm is related to Baghdad Bob.

In reply to nick2020

Oh just saw this!!

And is this the creator that I must have faith in? You all over the place nick,don't listen to Norm,he just setting you up...

In reply to black

They just wont let this thread die,and they're nothing but canon fodder.

*sharpens chops

In reply to bravos

Bravos show me one place in 7 pages where I asked you to have faith? Or even said that is what is asked of you?

I have moved forward. We both agree that there is a creator and I think that is a good start.

Listen fellows this thread is dealing with the whole basis and reason for existence.

You can't just say I am tired or hungry and walk away. This is far too important to suspend indefinitely. Please sharpen your arguments and resume this valuable discussion post-haste.

In reply to bravos

Darn! Original thinking from bravos! And the man is even willing to accept that heavenly intervention is a possibility!

Ah, if only black could surprise now with such original thinking ... no, no ... with any sort of thinking!!!

Brother bravos there is still hope for you. Not sure about black tho. He's tough case!

In reply to Headley

Man, cut Brother bravos some slack. The man's coming around.

In reply to bravos

Now, this is where you and I agree. Our faith does not need to be professed loudly at street corners a la bible thumper, in my opinion. Our actions are the proof of whatever we have faith in, if any proof would ever be needed.

I definitely do not need any darn preacher to tell me that his God approves of me. Neither do I need to accept popular notions of God - supposedly based on scriptures. I can do my own reading, thinking and interpreting.

In reply to black

Hahaha! That fella was the ultimate optimist. I am nowhere near his class. Hats off to a one-of-a-kind gentleman!

So, when will you start doing some independent thinking, like bravos?

In reply to Norm

Ok Norm,I was leaving this thread to die as Black's took over and picked up good momentum but I had to respond to your last post..

Based on what you've typed well then you using it like good literature,I see no problem,reciting a verse of anything can help lift spirits..

My only problem is when it's being used as judge jury and executioner..

In closing I would like to say Thank you and keep doing you,just keep it to you.