What would WI cappo have said?

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link natty_forever Joined: Apr 28, 2003
Posts: 43650
10/4/17 7:34:34 AM 
In reply to Walco.... yeah, but still failed with West Indies, need ready goods to succeed.

big grin

link DIEHARD Joined: Jan 12, 2006
Posts: 5667
10/4/17 10:40:59 AM 
In reply to Walco

Bredrin, you obviously have no idea what was going on with the WI team in the time leading up to Ottis' truthful statements about the performance, or lack thereof, of the senior players during that WC. Ask yourself this question. Why is it that Ottis had no man management issues with any WI bowler not named Benn? Did he have man management issues with the England bowlers, or did they universally shower him with praise?


The players' behaviour is irrlevant..you think great coaches..have model players with working all the time, their job is to harness the players talent in order to achieve results.

He instead got rid of the talent, when there was no feasible alternative, and failed miserably.

Try and comprehend what the coach's job is

There was a player revolt during that World Cup led by the senior players. And it was because Gibson was trying to instill discipline, player accountability, physical fitness, and proper mental preparation in the team. Only in the West Indies would fans side with the players under such circumstances.


Well then the coach has faield if he is not able to succesfully implement his plan, then the job was too difficult for him and we cannot say how good of a head coach he is, until we see him with another team.

link Walco Joined: Jun 22, 2008
Posts: 5335
10/4/17 10:49:34 AM 
In reply to natty_forever and Diehard

A busy day for me, so I will be back for you two later smile

link DIEHARD Joined: Jan 12, 2006
Posts: 5667
10/4/17 11:47:18 AM 
In reply to Walco

Eagerly awaiting your return sir.. cool lol

twisted

link tc1 Joined: Jun 12, 2004
Posts: 10368
10/4/17 11:49:25 AM 
In reply to natty_forever

Named a coach who succeeded with the WI team.

link DIEHARD Joined: Jan 12, 2006
Posts: 5667
10/4/17 12:00:06 PM 
In reply to tc1

There are stages of success..

Step one should be, which coach got the players to buy into his philosophy, and who gained their trust and respect.

Otis didnt even do that, so you cant even consider him a partial success.

Phil did that at least, and got some wins.

You have to at least get the players on your side first, then you can look at if your methodologies actually achieve success on the field.

Walk before you run..

link Walco Joined: Jun 22, 2008
Posts: 5335
10/4/17 6:07:22 PM 
In reply to DIEHARD
There are stages of success..

Step one should be, which coach got the players to buy into his philosophy, and who gained their trust and respect.

Otis didnt even do that, so you cant even consider him a partial success.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Gibson win a T20 World Cup? Also, the team's fielding and bowling improved under Gibson.

Phil did that at least, and got some wins.

Phil Simmons, who was taught by Gibson in England when he was studying for his coaching certification, will tell anyone who listens that he built on the foundation put in place by Gibson. Ask Phil the next time you see him.

You have to at least get the players on your side first, then you can look at if your methodologies actually achieve success on the field.

All of the players were on Gibson's side until he started demanding proper physical and mental preparation, and began holding players accountable for their own performances. Then certain players started complaining that lifting weights and too much aerobic conditioning, etc.

Prior to his stint as WI head coach, Jimmy Adams warned Gibson not to take the job because he (as a black man) would not get the requisite respect from the players and administration. Not long after taking the WI head coaching job, Gibson was told by a star player that he could not tell that player what to do because Gibson was just a black boy.

Look man, Gibson told the WI players the same things Phil told them and the same things Law is telling them now. The only difference is that because of Law's complexion the players and administrators are more likely to listen.

link Walco Joined: Jun 22, 2008
Posts: 5335
10/4/17 6:09:56 PM 
In reply to natty_forever
yeah, but still failed with West Indies, need ready goods to succeed.

I see. So winning a T20 WC means nothing ...

And what ready goods are you talking about? The same ready goods that have been choking all over the place for time immemorial? Come again dreadlock rasta. You can do better smile

link nick2020 Joined: Jul 2, 2012
Posts: 18575
10/4/17 10:02:36 PM 
In reply to imusic

imusic
10/2/17 5:10:48 PM
 

In reply to Walco

Ottis' truthful statements about the performance, or lack thereof, of the senior players during that WC.

Truthful or not....he threw "his players" under the proverbial bus. There is no doubt about that.

There's also no doubt that the players thrown under the bus from then on had little respect for him.

He caused that. Nobody else.


I agree with 100% of your post.

Next step is a critical look of the players in question.

link nick2020 Joined: Jul 2, 2012
Posts: 18575
10/4/17 10:03:13 PM 
In reply to natty_forever

natty_forever
10/4/17 7:34:34 AM
 
In reply to Walco.... yeah, but still failed with West Indies, need ready goods to succeed.


Who could succeed with the West Indies?

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