Head coach wuk than Otis ever could be.
Its not about skin colour..its about respecting the players and their efforts
Phil also did the same thing.
Exhibit A
Message Board Archives
Walco..This guy is already more suited for WI
Moforking common sense that has eluded Otis and the WI cricket administration in the past.
What a breath of fresh air..to hear good sense coming out of a WI coach's mouth!!!! Pretty much like Phil before him.
The only way colour might factor in...is with the likes of Cameron and the rest of wannabe massas..who now more likely to listen to a foreigner, than to one of their own ..Phil
In reply to DIEHARD
to be fair Marlon cannot mentor anything more than his shoe lace
In reply to doosra... I will not have you refer to players as shoe lace.
In reply to doosra
No disagreement there..but dont label them all worthless
I'm glad Law mentioned Beaton because I think he would make a good death ODI bowler.
In reply to sunfish
Better than Cummins or Holder for sure.
In reply to DIEHARD
I cant keep up with you bredrin. I raised issues concerning Gibsons tenure as coach and instead of addressing them directly, you start another thread pointing to a white coach who said essentially what Gibson said about the senior players. The white coach is lauded, but Gibson is derided. Perhaps you should go back and reread exactly what Gibson said.
But its obvious from some of your words and statements that your issues with Gibson are personal. I have neither the time nor inclination to help you with that one. But there are professionals who can help you
In reply to Walco
Wow.
Show me where Law said we lost because of the senior players.
Show me where Gibson said the senior players are important to the team.
As a manager, leader, coach.. it's not what you say, but how you say it
In reply to DIEHARD
For Walco, you may also put it lthusly:
The bajan Gibson is lauded, but the white coach is derided
In reply to imusic
Stay out of big people business nuh man. I have nuff time for for Coach Law, just like I did for Phil. Stop projecting your insularity onto other people.
The only criticism I have thus far is that I have not seen any signs of improved fielding.
In reply to DIEHARD
I will address your last post after you address this from the other thread you ran from to start this one.
There are stages of success.
Step one should be, which coach got the players to buy into his philosophy, and who gained their trust and respect.
Otis didnt even do that, so you cant even consider him a partial success.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Gibson win a T20 World Cup? Also, the team's fielding and bowling improved under Gibson.
Phil did that at least, and got some wins.
Phil Simmons, who was taught by Gibson in England when he was studying for his coaching certification, will tell anyone who listens that he built on the foundation put in place by Gibson. Ask Phil the next time you see him.
You have to at least get the players on your side first, then you can look at if your methodologies actually achieve success on the field.
All of the players were on Gibson's side until he started demanding proper physical and mental preparation, and began holding players accountable for their own performances. Then certain players started complaining that lifting weights and too much aerobic conditioning, etc.
Prior to his stint as WI head coach, Jimmy Adams warned Gibson not to take the job because he (as a black man) would not get the requisite respect from the players and administration. Not long after taking the WI head coaching job, Gibson was told by a star player that he could not tell that player what to do because Gibson was just a black boy.
Look man, Gibson told the WI players the same things Phil told them and the same things Law is telling them now. The only difference is that because of Law's complexion the players and administrators are more likely to listen.
In reply to Walco
Where are the stats to support your assertion that bowling and fielding improved under Gibson?
Only a fool will not acknowledge the fact that WI T-20 success has absolutely nothing at all to do with WI administration, they have put nothing in place to ensure success in this format, they just happened along and reaped the fruit, they didnt plant a single seed.
The players that won the T-20 were some of the same players that Gibson discarded.
Relevance? Taught him cricket maybe...did he teach him man management skills as well? And regardless of what Gibson taught who..he badly mismanaged his players when WI head coach
All of the players were on Gibson's side until he started demanding proper physical and mental preparation, and began holding players accountable for their own performances. Then certain players started complaining that lifting weights and too much aerobic conditioning, etc.
Prior to his stint as WI head coach, Jimmy Adams warned Gibson not to take the job because he (as a black man) would not get the requisite respect from the players and administration. Not long after taking the WI head coaching job, Gibson was told by a star player that he could not tell that player what to do because Gibson was just a black boy.
Look man, Gibson told the WI players the same things Phil told them and the same things Law is telling them now. The only difference is that because of Law's complexion the players and administrators are more likely to listen.
I dunno what all of that mumbo jumbo rubbish about what Jimmy said to Otis has to do with anything. You actually just proved my point
Here
He couldn't get his best players to buy into his vision..thus..failure..
In reply to DIEHARD... he fail cause he black, them telling you? I thought one would use his Test or ODI stats as a measure.
In reply to natty_forever
It's not that complicated my friend. Gibson, like the coaches who preceded and followed him, did not get the job done because of deficiencies in talent, discipline and commitment, among other things. Now watch what happens with the South Africa team for a case study in what happens when great coaching meets talent, discipline and commitment to excellence
Why cherry-pick Natty? No coaching required in T20???
In reply to Walco
It requires less coaching some might argue, just like how playing it requires less stamina discipline and focus.
Now..as i also alluded to above ..our T-20 sucess is built around a nucleus of T-20 professionals..experts..who achieved this ..by playing under other administrations, coaches, systems, globally, by focusing on themselves...
This luxury has not been afforded these players in other formats..by honing their crafts in other leagues, they were able to bring this expertise back to the WI team..Phil himself alluded to being on autopilot once the Gayles, Bravos, Narines, Pollards put on the maroon in the shortest format
In reply to DIEHARD
I don't need stats to confirm what I saw with my two eyes in the fielding department. You should consult the stats of Kemar Roach and Ravi Rampaul. Even Dwayne Bravo grudgingly complimented Gibson's skill as a bowling coach.
We are discussing coaching my friend. Are you saying that coaching is insignificant or unnecessary in T20 cricket?
This statement is shite, but I will humor you. Kindly identify the players Gibson discarded
Kindly identify the players Gibson mismanaged, and explain what Gibson did or did not do that led to your assertion that he mismanaged these players.
You mean to tell me Gibson's failure was not due to the poor pitches WI players are saddled with when playing domestic competitions?
All jokes aside though. You seem to think that if Gibson had gotten his best players to buy-in he would not have been a failure. So I ask you this. Were those "best players" winning or succeeding before Gibson's arrival as head coach or after Gibson's departure?
'
In reply to Walco
Give jack his jacket...he is a great bowling coach it would appear..so..bowling should improve..but..whats the head coaches job/ objective?
Gayle..Samuels..well..he did get rid of Sarwan amd Shiv from ODIs
See list above, i could go scouring through articles to find out who else was lost to WI cricket during his tenure..I am not saying for a second that his job was an easy one..i'm just saying there is no evidence as to his competence as a head coach..the evidence actually points to the opposite
Point is, as head coach..very few bought what he..was selling...what happened prior to his appointment has nothing to do with HIS competence.
What change did he bring?
What was his influence?
Seems to me all he did, was start this stand off with senior players..and we've continued to lose, like we did before, but what was his legacy?
I mentioned that his very first measure of success would have been..converting players to his way of thinking..instead they all rebelled..Chris Gayle for example, no other cricketing observer has ever doubted his cricketing intelligence..Stuart Law actually speaks highly of him..Gibson on the other hand..called the man a crricketing dunce with nothing to offer..c'mon..the man could not even properly assess the strengths and weaknesses of his charges!!
Which wold have been necessary to sell them on his philosophy!!!
In reply to DIEHARD
Gayle discarded himself until his belly was full with IPL and Big Bash money. Don't make me go through that shite chapter and verse for you. But who could blame Gayle for following the money?
Samuels was discarded? When? Do you realize that Gibson fought for Samuels' inclusion in the WI team when Pybus wanted him dropped?
Sarwan was dropped (presumable by the selectors) for non-performance, and never made it back primarily due to a bad back that led to fitness issues.
As I recalled, the reason Shiv was dropped from ODIs was to prolong his Test career.
It appears that you took up permanent residence in the gear bag of one of the WI players during Gibson's tenure. How you know all of this bredrin?
I mentioned that his very first measure of success would have been..converting players to his way of thinking..instead they all rebelled.
The highlighted words not only expose your bias, but also can be easily proven to be false statements or gross exaggerations.
His legacy is a T20 WC and a No. 5 Test ranking that has not been sniffed since his departure
In reply to Walco... and how was this No. 5 ranking achieved?
In reply to Walco
How times have changed...the man ton up in a series before his last...now a days a ton makes u indispensable for all eternity...Kyle cant even get a 50 ..and he's guaranteed selection for life
Want to bet now! Law will not get to contract renewal time. He will become another coach that get paid for time not served.
I would take the job and based on history wait for CWI to terminate. Habits hard to break and Law is sounding like he wants results and demanding the best team. To get the best team on the field Wavel and Cameron have to undo certain aspects of the MOU.
In reply to rubberd
Law has a two year contract and he has been coach for 8 months already. If we win a test in New Zealand he will get whatever players he wants.
But I get your point. The Stars won't waste time playing for the pocket change Wavell and Dave agreed to in the MOU
In reply to natty_forever
Perhaps they did like other teams and played the schedule outlined by the FTP
In reply to DIEHARD
I refuse to be drawn into a conversation about Kyle Hope
In reply to Walco
Agreed!
If you going to measure my performance by win/loss then the water bucket must be sound not full of holes.
In reply to Walco
In reply to natty_forever
Keep dem on point!!!
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