Message Board Archives
Bryan Davies Rates Jason Holder
Headley
2017-10-09 09:27:29
About WI captain Jason Holder, Davis stressed, “Holder is going to continue to be a failure as a captain, but they have no problem with taking him all the time.
Link
Seems Courtney Browne is selling a load of hogwash but nobody's buying, except a few with vested interests.
Narper
2017-10-09 10:08:25
In reply to Headley
“You had a losing team and you make no changes for the next (series)? I saw the One Day matches, he was terrible as a captain
.
nuff said
. Kyle Hope was a total failure. What you’re trying to tell me that there’s no batsmen at all in the Caribbean?
This guy averaged 6 from 6 innings in test cricket...and at 29 years old...he is old....and is is not that he was breaking down the door in regional cricket...
dayne
2017-10-09 10:29:30
In reply to Headley
I think a few more sports journalist should be writing articles about the selection process of the WI team if they are dissatisfied with it. For the last two years there have been an obvious favor towards selecting Barbadian born players, I still cannot think of any reason why Reifer is on the team. WI cricket Fans could ask themselves, which person on the Test eleven could Reifer replace if they continue to fail? Well there is only one answer, no one.
tc1
2017-10-09 10:32:19
In reply to Narper
like Singh and Chandrika
Narper
2017-10-09 11:05:38
In reply to tc1
like Singh and Chandrika
Singh had a 3 test series...averaged 10....he failed at 28 years old...he was rightly and promptly dropped...and RIGHTLY not a single query from cricket fans
Chandrika should never have been selected for test cricket with a 25 FC average with no tons....but Big PU-C persisted with him for a few more tests thinking he would be accepted for a replacement for the hasty and obscene dropping of Shiv
Are you trying to justify the selection of Big Hope? Big Hope not only failed but looked absolutely clueless at the crease.
DIEHARD
2017-10-09 11:12:20
In reply to Narper
Singh had a 3 test series...averaged 10....he failed at 28 years old...he was rightly and promptly dropped...and RIGHTLY not a single query from cricket fans
SHOT!!!!
Philjam
2017-10-09 11:25:41
In reply to Headley
Name me which other test playing nation that have failure on tour and goes on the next tour with the same players?.I will answer it...none. Browne and his so-called other selectors are a damn shame to the Caribbean cricket.At least four of these players should'ave been replace
tc1
2017-10-09 11:34:21
In reply to Narper
I am not trying to justify Hope's failures, as long as we have a level field and indicated he is like 'past failures'
u like Davis and Diehard highlighted the failure of the tour, were they in your and Diehard's opinion any positives.
Narper
2017-10-09 11:41:12
In reply to tc1
were they in your and Diehard's opinion any positives.
Yes there were
1) I won't sneeze at a test win in England after 17 years
2) Shai Hope's performance in test cricket
3) Braffit's 2nd test performance
4) Roach's return to test cricket
But there were devastating individual failures who should not have been rewarded with another tour immediately after their failures
che
2017-10-09 11:58:46
tc1
2017-10-09 12:03:17
In reply to Narper
) I won't sneeze at a test win in England after 17 years
first in 17 years and u think this is not a great feat,
tc1
2017-10-09 12:05:01
In reply to che
u could see the bias in the article as he only mentioned the OD performances of Lewis and Joseph.
che
2017-10-09 12:09:11
DIEHARD
2017-10-09 12:19:55
In reply to tc1
But there were devastating individual failures who should not have been rewarded with another tour immediately after their failures
why is it all so black n white for you people?
So finding fault with a 29 y.o batsman who average 6 in six innings and secures his place..is equivalent to not acknowledging that we won a test match where the opposition declared cos they didnt respect our chances of winning?
Kudos for the win, but this guy played no part in securing it..and we fail to see how he will contribute to any victories in the future..why should someone else not get a chance?
tc1
2017-10-09 12:38:51
In reply to DIEHARD
The fans want to see the ball flying everywhere. But the Hope brothers, Kraigg Brathwaite, are proper batsmen. They can hit sixes, but they are proper craftsmen when it comes to batting. Let them get on with their craft. If you allow them to develop in that way, they will be able[/quote]
This is the words of your top coach, the one you acknowledged is the motivator, the one you believe is a good coach. Do you still think he is a good coach
I am not saying that Hope should not be dropped, but the attack on the Hopes and Browne , it the same that you posted on Gibson.
Below is your opening statement to Walco on coaching
Its not about skin colour..its about respecting the players and their efforts
Phil also did the same thing.
Exhibit A
WestDem
2017-10-09 12:39:36
In reply to Narper
The ex-national opener was also disappointed with the returns of the veteran trio Chris Gayle, Marlon Samuels and Jerome Taylor. “Samuels should be (on the team) at all. I wouldn’t pick. I don’t see any reason for Gayle there either. Taylor’s cricket has gone real bad.”
Can you help me try to understand what he means here before I comment...Is this some kind a Trini English?
DIEHARD
2017-10-09 13:11:17
In reply to tc1
This is the words of your top coach, the one you acknowledged is the motivator, the one you believe is a good coach. Do you still think he is a good coach
See nothing wrong with what he said..very diplmomatic..he probably wanted to say the older Hope is useless..but he was making a public statement..so stated confidence in the team that has been selected
We’re very disappointed with our performance,” said the coach. “It’s a fact that our senior players haven’t performed. When the going got tough we didn’t stand up to it. It comes down to individuals taking responsibility and believing in themselves. Ultimately it comes down to performance, that’s what matters in sport.
“We have some time to reflect between now and then. There will be some serious decisions to be made about players and about the way forward. We still need some senior players. Guys who still have the hunger and desire to do well at the highest level.”
Otis did not gauge the temprature in the room before his comments, and given the nature of his relationship with said players..it was a misstep
The stats on the other hand..telll quite a story..compared to this lot
analyst-kid
2017-10-09 13:23:24
I cant understand the aggression towards the retention of the English bound squad.
The refusal of Narine and Bravo to play before the English tour in addition to the A team players being engaged in playing Sri Lanka meant the same team being retained.
jacksprat
2017-10-09 13:24:31
In reply to Narper
This guy averaged 6 from 6 innings in test cricket...and at 29 years old...he is old....and is is not that he was breaking down the door in regional cricket...
Tony Becca seems to agree with you!
Singh averaged 10 runs, and he was promptly -and rightly- dropped after 3 tests. Another player, KHope, who also looked out of his dept at test level -and averaged
6 runs- in his initial 3 tests is rewarded with another tour. In other words, a reward forfailure.
This is the kind of double standard that leads some to conclude that it is more about the colour of the passport rather than cricket acumen that influences some selections.
tc1
2017-10-09 13:25:05
DIEHARD
2017-10-09 13:30:05
In reply to tc1
Please focus on the words spoken by each gentleman regarding subpar performances of thier charges..dont know why u trying to focus on intent..that was never the arrgument.
tc1
2017-10-09 13:43:04
In reply to DIEHARD
if you came to the conclusion that Law was genuine in his remark about Gayle and Samuels, why aren't you reaching the same conclusion on his remark to Kyle?
buds
2017-10-09 13:52:34
Who is Bryan Davis again?
DIEHARD
2017-10-09 14:07:58
In reply to tc1
if you came to the conclusion that Law was genuine in his remark about Gayle and Samuels, why aren't you reaching the same conclusion on his remark to Kyle?
The fact that both Gayle & Samuels average higher ...over an infinitely larger number of innings.
Stay focused..and stop trying to go off topic..Gibson has done nothing..to make anyone feel that he is a great coach..his first tough assignment as head coach..he failed miserably at.
Ripped the team apart..and didnt replace it with something workable.
Baje
2017-10-09 14:12:29
In reply to jacksprat
Singh averaged 10 runs, and he was promptly -and rightly- dropped after 3 tests. Another player, KHope, who also looked out of his dept at test level -and averaged 6 runs- in his initial 3 tests is rewarded with another tour. In other words, a reward forfailure.
Kyle, whether he can bat or not averaged 50 in our most recently concluded FC season. No other opener except Devon averaged in 40's.
Kyle is currently averaging 33 in his short ODI career.
He did manage a century on tour.
The tour of England was a very tough one in tough conditions with tough bowlers.
Maybe the coach and selectors considered the above. I believe that if Law wanted him gone, he would be gone.
Baje
2017-10-09 14:15:50
Singh averaged 10 runs, and he was promptly -and rightly- dropped after 3 tests. Another player, KHope, who also looked out of his dept at test level -and averaged 6 runs- in his initial 3 tests is rewarded with another tour. In other words, a reward forfailure.
Should Hetmyer have toured England?
nick2020
2017-10-09 14:39:34
In reply to Narper
I agree based on performance Kyle needs dropping. But I think we create an environment where we drop people too quickly.
If a guy rises to the top in regional he should get a commitment. 10 matches.
Narper
2017-10-09 14:40:15
In reply to Baje
Hetmyer is 20 years old
yes he would have learnt from the English tour....just being in the squad
He should not have been rushed into test cricket in the 1st place
Brian Lara was carrying towel for 2 years
Narper
2017-10-09 14:43:44
In reply to nick2020
But I think we create an environment where we drop people too quickly.
No we haven't...that is a myth
Name who was dropped that didn't deserve to be dropped....and came back to prove the selectors wrong
What we have done is rushed ill prepared youngsters into the test team...and then have no choice than to drop them..
Narper
2017-10-09 14:48:39
BTW Dowrich needed a rest too....why is he rewarded with a tour to Zim?
sgtdjones
2017-10-09 16:06:19
In reply to WestDem
The ex-national opener was also disappointed with the returns of the veteran trio Chris Gayle, Marlon Samuels and Jerome Taylor. “Samuels should be (on the team) at all. I wouldn’t pick. I don’t see any reason for Gayle there either. Taylor’s cricket has gone real bad.”
Can you help me try to understand what he means here before I comment...Is this some kind a Trini English? lol lol
Cussbud
It obvious that it was missed by the Editor
I shall Hexplain it ta ya .
“Samuels should be (on the team) at all.
Samuels should not be on the team.
I wouldn’t pick. I don’t see any reason for Gayle there either. Taylor’s cricket has gone real bad.”
I see no reason for Gayle nor Taylor being on the team also.They are both in regression.
Now let's hear ya
sober comments.
sgtdjones
2017-10-09 16:07:39
tc1
2017-10-09 16:21:48
In reply to DIEHARD
Diehard, you are the one that should stay focus, wherein our posting did we mentioned Gibson, We were debating how you interpret coach Law view on Kyle cricketing abilities as been diplomatic, while celebrating his assessment on Gayle and Samuels.
natty_forever
2017-10-09 16:29:03
In reply to tc1... you of all persons should know the answer to that as you display the same qualities all the time.
DIEHARD
2017-10-09 17:13:09
In reply to tc1
Gayle and Samuels have earned a certain level of respect..due to their many years of service, awards, and records relative to the rest of the current lot.
With Kyle..one has to be diplomatic..simples..really
tc1
2017-10-09 17:34:07
In reply to DIEHARD
Your argument is weak, one minute you quoted Law as the great coach, motivator extraordinary, master of WI cricket, savior of WI, but on the other totally disregard what he says about Kyle.
You cannot have it both ways, I know how much you value an opinion of a foreign coach.
The coach said that Shai, Kraigg, and Kyle are proper batsmen, I did not say that, your coach, your motivator.
I will say the Gayle has performed well over the years, but Samuels as a player is no better than Holder.
Scar
2017-10-09 17:58:30
In reply to tc1
Being a proper batsman and not making runs equal keep in the side!??
I would ask Law or anyone else if OZ would keep that proper batsman after such a series. There is a leftie in OZ who is a proper batsman has a few Tons averages up there in their FC and cant get back in the side. England promptly dropped a batsman after 2 failures and he may never get back in again. 6 runs average on 6 innings, 6 frigging runs!! Okay okay its equivalent to being not out in each innings while scoring 1 run. 
K Hope is at sea at that level. Roach looked better at the crease!!
tc1
2017-10-09 18:37:10
In reply to Scar
Roach looks better than Samuels.
u missing the argument with Diehard, it not whether Kyle makes runs, is if you believed that Law is a great coach, motivator, mentor, savior and is right on Gayle and Samuels, why is it that Diehard now saying he is diplomatic about Kyle.
Was Law being diplomatic on Samuels and Gayle?
Cleg
2017-10-09 20:02:56
In reply to nick2020
If a guy rises to the top in regional he should get a commitment. 10 matches.
OH raas...that`s at least 4 or 5 series for WI!!
che
2017-10-09 21:12:54
pelon
2017-10-09 21:47:24
In reply to jacksprat
Singh averaged 10 runs, and he was promptly -and rightly- dropped after 3 tests. Another player, KHope, who also looked out of his dept at test level -and averaged 6 runs- in his initial 3 tests is rewarded with another tour. In other words, a reward forfailure.
This is the kind of double standard that leads some to conclude that it is more about the colour of the passport rather than cricket acumen that influences some selections.
If your argument is that neither should have had a second chance, ok. If you look at regional performance as a criteria, Hope or Sigh ... who do you pick (since they both shat up the place in the first 3 test) - it would be Hope on numbers.
Note: I don't disagree with your "passport" concept, but be fair man: K Hope topped the avgs. his inclusion (esp over Singh) was not a stretch.
Narper
2017-10-09 22:27:34
In reply to pelon
who do you pick (since they both shat up the place in the first 3 test) - it would be Hope on numbers.
Singh was selected based on WI A team performances and WI President XI ton
jacksprat
2017-10-09 23:38:41
In reply to pelon
If you look at regional performance as a criteria, Hope or Sigh ... who do you pick ?
Ambris!
I guess he must have a passport issue -the wrong colour!
He has done more than enough to warrant an opportunity, and he certainly can't do any worse than Hope & Singh.
Dowrich,is one of my favourites because I think he is very talented, and potentrially tghe best batsman in the team, but he failed both in front of and behind the stumps and should have made way for another keeper.
What is the message being sent? This is supposed to be professional sports not charity !
It seems West Indies selection is still based on an indulgent
eat-a-food culture.
A team can't lose 2 of 3 tests
in 3 days, and only won its sole test because of a generous declaration by England, which backfired, and then send an unchanged squad on a subsequent tour.
Again, what is the lesson being sent here, that the passport is more important than competence and performance?
Seechy
2017-10-10 06:47:35
Vishaul Singh, who averaged 10 from 6 innings was promptly dropped, so why the F should Kyle fricking Hope be rewarded with another series after averaging an even more dismal 6 from 6 innings?!
DIEHARD
2017-10-10 09:40:59
In reply to tc1
u missing the argument with Diehard, it not whether Kyle makes runs, is if you believed that Law is a great coach, motivator, mentor, savior and is right on Gayle and Samuels, why is it that Diehard now saying he is diplomatic about Kyle.
Was Law being diplomatic on Samuels and Gayle?
WTF??
Mate i think you are completely missing the point.
Quite frankly..I am not gonna get drawn into his intent or thought process on Kyle different from Samuels/ Gayle..thats foolishness, you started drawing me wide..but i'm done.
I can only assume his intent re Kyle..due to the lack of actual results..the man has no 50s..in any format in international cricket...
What i am saying..is that he is not Otis...and shows a lot more awareness of the impact on his words on the relationship between himself and the players.
So if you want to say he was diplomatic re all three, neither here nor there...you are right, i know nothing re what he feels re each player, and i shouldn't, if he starts targeting players and labelling them failures in the media...kind of hard to get that player to perform, or want to perform.
I don't see anything wrong with anything he said..re any player..he gets "praise" from me, as you put it, for all his comments, cos he hasn't denigrated any of them, and has spoken in positive terms about all.
tc1
2017-10-10 10:07:05
In reply to DIEHARD
So if you want to say he was diplomatic re all three, neither here nor there...you are right, i know nothing re what he feels re each player, and i shouldn't
,
BINGO
The light now went off. if you had corrected yourself before, the discussion finish.
DIEHARD
2017-10-10 10:16:05
In reply to tc1
petty much??
tc1
2017-10-10 11:55:50
Judgement
2017-10-11 06:08:25
In reply to DIEHARD
WTF??
Mate i think you are completely missing the point.
Diehard, save your breath. That poster is of notoriously limited intelligence (you will note this from the hilarious inability to spell, let alone construct a sentence or, god forbid, put forth a comprehensive argument) be sympathetic and allow a wide berth
DIEHARD
2017-10-11 06:25:19
hairline1
2017-10-11 20:17:42
In reply to Headley
16 years of Trinis and jcans in control produce the worse forking period in our cricket history. Getting Kicked the face by forking Kenya. You writting bare C.nt Punk Ares Davis another no skill trini' c.nt. Just watching an old Wes hall video would make that trini forker piss he pants. 
che
2017-10-11 20:45:33
Headley
2017-10-11 21:45:40
In reply to hairline1
I understand your need to unburden yourself. But what about addressing Davis's comments?
Scar
2017-10-11 22:58:39
In reply to hairline1
Didnt Davis score 3 half Tons in the 3 Tests he played vs in that first Test Series win over OZ?
I think he replaced Nurse as the opening partner to Hunte. Charlie was the better of the 2 brothers tho but Davis' vs Hopes Bryan did better in his first 3 Test as second best bro than Kyle
che
2017-10-12 10:54:27
In reply to Scar
Geezer doan put Seymour Nurse in sentence wid Bryan Davis...Nurse in top drawer of batsmen...Davis was a shitehound...
tc1
2017-10-12 12:42:39
In reply to che
tc1
2017-10-12 12:44:42
In reply to Headley
So address Davis' commdnts on Gayle, Samuels and Taylor
Headley
2017-10-12 13:50:47
Chrissy
2017-10-12 17:11:38
The truth is Holder is a lousy captain and a very ordinary cricketer.
tc1
2017-10-12 17:20:29
In reply to Chrissy
Becuse he bajan,
Do you know Holder has better stats than your superstar Big Bravo as a test player, and is equal to him as a ODI player.
DIEHARD
2017-10-12 18:39:20
Scar
2017-10-12 19:28:47
In reply to che
Not on the 3 Tests he played. Thats all that mattered. Helping your side win a historic series with 3 half Tons. Fact.
Per your statement earlier you saw him turn his pants yellow vs Hall. I wasnt in HS yet so name call8ng me geezer perhaps suits you more!!
che
2017-10-13 07:23:22
In reply to Scar
WTF yuh not onli a geezer yuh is a senile mofo tuh. Fact!!
Ah neva post dis geezer......
Per your statement earlier you saw him turn his pants yellow vs Hall
Yuh trini peep Davis is a sack of shite!!
analyst-kid
2017-10-13 10:09:42
Holder is not a good captain but I cannot agree that he is a very ordinary cricketer.
Holder avgs as a bowler 25.00 vs NZ, 22.26 vs Pak and 22.33 vs SL...FOR THE YEAR 2017 vs Pak and Eng combined he avg 29.05
With the bat he avg 45.00 vs NZ, 43.57 vs Pak and 31.00 vs Aus.
He is ranked NO.9 in the World as a Test allrounder...so he cannot be in no way regarded as a very ordinary cricketer.
DIEHARD
2017-10-13 10:33:16
In reply to analyst-kid
In between Perera and Herath...perspective..and there's a massive gap between Perera and Starc ..
natty_forever
2017-10-13 10:39:45
Them Bajans showing them true colours.
DIEHARD
2017-10-13 10:53:11
analyst-kid
2017-10-13 11:45:50
In reply to DIEHARD
FOR THE YEAR 2017 vs Pak and Eng combined he avg 29.05
is that cherry picked?
tc1
2017-10-13 11:48:42
In reply to DIEHARD
Stats my friend says Holder is just as good as Bravo and Russell, however, Bravo and Russell are rated Superstars.
Headley
2017-10-13 11:51:13
In reply to DIEHARD
Bowling he average 239 vs India..60 vs Australia 49 v SA and 35 vs Ingerland.
Yuh ketch him red handed.
I would expect that from a Bajan with a 3 letter name but not from the esteemed Kid.
tc1
2017-10-13 12:06:34
In reply to Headley
Holder stats as a test player is better than Bravo, Holder stat as a ID1 is on par with Bravo and Russell,
Holder stats as a batsman T20I is on par with Russell , Holder outperformed Russell as a T20 bowler by 5 pts.
u believe Diehard with false fact, do some research.
Holder may the best allrounder since Mallie or Keith.
Holder is 20 pts on Rusell and Bravo in best looks as this is very important to yardies and others-
analyst-kid
2017-10-13 13:15:30
I have seen Holder take up the ball or bat and produce winning performances against Pakistan and England.
No very ordinary cricketer can do that more than once against top test playing nations.
Headley
2017-10-14 11:55:55
In reply to analyst-kid
I would continue to pick Holder for Test and One Day cricket. I would keep him far from the captaincy. I believe his deportment is great and his disposition is admirable but his decision making is piss poor and there is nothing to suggest that it will ever get any better.
BTW Reverend Errington Massiah says he is in agreement with the ream selected for Zim, so it seems that Bajans are in agreement.
analyst-kid
2017-10-14 12:38:30
In reply to Headley
Agreed. Holder is a poor captain. I have said that over and over again on this forum.
I don't know what is Rev Massiah's claim to fame but in the last Sunday Sun. a question was asked about the team to Zimbabwe to the leading Bajan sports journalists including Mike King,Ezra Stuart and Craig Cozier and they felt Cummins, Kyle and Dowrich should be out and Ambris and Lewis should have been included of the squad
openning
2017-10-14 13:39:43
I look fordward to the day, where a captain is looked at, like most team sports.
I also look forward to players coming from teams, instead of Islands.
Can anyone imagine a West Indies team with six Amazon players, and only a few where born in Guyana?
tc1
2017-10-14 14:04:57
In reply to openning
keep on dreaming Dr. Openning
Scar
2017-10-14 14:56:34
In reply to analyst-kid
As sports mediaen they should know that Lewis has a fractured ankle or was that a false hospital report
tc1
2017-10-14 15:18:32
Well done Brooks, great captaincy
analyst-kid
2017-10-14 20:30:22
In reply to tc1
He should be given B'dos captaincy regardless of Brathwaite and Holder
seaegg99
2017-10-16 08:30:26
[b]Top Run Scorers
Nov'16 to Oct'17
Test
[/b]
KC Brathwaite, Right-hand bat
Innings Runs Avg
16 - 674 - 48.14
RL Chase, Right-hand bat
16 - 577 - 41.21
SD Hope, Right-hand bat
14 - 576 - 44.30
[b]Full Team Statistics
Top Wicket Takers
Nov'16 to Oct'17[/b]
Test
ST Gabriel, Right-arm fast-medium
Innings Wickets Ave
14 - 31 - 25.12
JO Holder, Right-arm medium-fast
15 - 26 - 25.03
D Bishoo, Legbreak
12 - 20 - 39.0
