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Alfa Romeo, Fiat (Fiat/Chrysler) and Audi were all booted from the U.S. by way of inferior products. Now, they are making a comeback, along with Jaguar, Mini, and Land Rover.

Anybody own one of these brands?

Are they as dependable as American, Japanese, South Korean and German brands?

Is it me or has the Mini 'evolved' from being a regular (economy) vehicle to something of a niche (almost luxury) variety?

In reply to Tryangle

I don't know if I would call them luxury cars but they have added some bigger, four door models.

In reply to black

Own an Audi A6 Avant Quattro Sportline and owned an Audi A4 in the past,very good cars with good build quality in my experience from early 2,000's to now.

Very involving and responsive cars,very ergonomic and very capable in many situations,more so equipped with quattro .

Having said that all German cars not Audi alone have been engineered to be dependent on dealer service,software upgrades and complicated procedures and special tool requirements to achieve simple service schedules which may render them obsolete simply due to lack of support much faster than Japanese and Korean offerings which are more maintenance friendly .

Initially my A4 because it was among the first of a new model had some teething problems,for instance if the plastic gate by the shifter gets the slightest of sticky droplet on it and you forgot to wipe it next time you shift from park to drive the whole thing snaps retracts like a measuring tape and strips out leaving a gaping hole by the shifter and renders the tip-tronic inoperable and the shifter coarse and squeaky,they also had to replace the power steering pump in the first few weeks,these early issues aren't limited to German luxury cars only.

For sheer build quality and driver involvement or comfort if that's your priority European cars are very much ahead.

In the 80's my dad had a benz and a Toyota Crown both bought new in the same year,the benz although ahead on build quality performance and engineering posed many early problems the Crown did not,and it had a lot to do with local conditions,support and fuel etc.

A European car is perfect when properly maintained from new as with any other car,but in terms of long term flexibility and reliability the Japanese are ahead due to the wider availability of compatible parts and easier service.

I see a future where basic cars would be mostly like computers and electronics where they would have to be disposed of even while appearing to be properly intact .

In reply to bravos

.

But, why make them so complicated? I've seen cars that require work to change a light bulb.

In reply to black

Simple,it's an attempt to monopolize after sales service and parts sales.

In reply to bravos

If you could only have one car, what would it be? Reliability must also be a factor.

In reply to black

I drive a Tesla, I wouldn't know.

In reply to black

A fully loaded 4 door 4wd pickup.always maintained this and actually proved this in my own life in hard times when I had to get rid of BMWs,sports cars and SUV's.

The 4 door pickup a true friend of the family,from the beach to the hardware to the appliances store to get that new stainless steel fridge and in comfort with your whole family inside,open the tailgate and you have a whole balcony and activity area,it's a vehicle that encourages a good lifestyle and creates opportunities for family activities out of everyday tasks.

Many a time I have been able to execute on opportunities immediately because I was simply in my pick up and simply was able to pick it up one time,from impressive natural slate stones from a fresh landslide to laden pineapple plants to fallen orchids on branches to wondering live wild animals I've randomly picked it up.

And just clean up shine tyres and go to a wedding or function no sweat..pick ups don't class you,anyone can drive a pick up and look legit,from a billionaire to a property developer to an architect to a farmer to a poser riding on 24's..

In reply to embsallie

I

.

Showoff

How many miles to the next charging station?

In reply to bravos

We rented a GMC Yukon in Orlando, I had never been in a car of that size and really, those things can carry a good bit. I imagine a 4 door pickup takes it to the next level

In reply to Tryangle

Yes bro I always looked at my cars and said if it came down to it the pickup would have to be #1 choice,because I know what they can do,especially in my field.

Best hard times vehicle ever..


You can comfortably carry a ton of scrap to the recyclers with your ac and music blasting with your hot sushi rolls on the passenger seat and leave with good money in hand if the price is good on the day...I have.

In reply to black

This would be it: My dream car w/stick shift

In reply to RemainsUnknown

Me too.

In reply to embsallie

I remember you talking about it. How long did it take to get it and what is the performance like?

In reply to black

My [actual] ride currently.

In reply to bravos

So basically, in the Zombie Apocalypse, that's the one you'd grab to get yourself moving

In reply to RemainsUnknown

Nice. 5.0?

In reply to black

No.

As a daily commuter vehicle, I wanted to have something practical (31 mpg for 50+ hghwy miles each day) while having something fun to drive as well. Performance = 310 hp & 320 lb/ft, RWD w/a 6 Speed Stick Shift. I have the '17 EcoBoost 4 cyl.

In reply to RemainsUnknown

Ok

In reply to black

Toyota Corolla best bang for your buck!

In reply to black

Subaru Legacy AWD. Perfect for Canadian winters..handles much better than infiniti and Mercedes and toyota

In reply to Bigzinc



Are you one of those nature guys that go camping every weekend?

Seriously, they are very reliable.

In reply to embsallie

Niceee...What model you have?

In reply to Bigzinc

Something about the Subie's that I have always been fond of....

In reply to black

The Subaru is one seriously great brand. It handles winter much better than more expensive cars.

My Car

In reply to black
In reply to XFactor




Model S, $68K;

About 290 between charges. Takes more time to charge at low voltages.

Drives like a dream. Noiseless.

In reply to Tryangle

I love SUVs. I owned 2 GM SUVs, loved both of them.

My sister has a countryman – she swears by it ---- just last week I was toying with the idea of getting one – I actually went out to Freeport, long island mini and test drive one ---- it’s nice – was fascinated with the Dash and the big dials - but seem to have huge blind spots – also a little claustrophobic --- went across the street – sat in a 440 X-Drive and felt a lot more comfortable and went with it-----

In reply to birdseye

Good choice.

In reply to birdseye

So you got it.

In reply to Tryangle

Correk!!

Looking at an I8 or a Tesla in the not too distant future if all goes well, to part take in an experience the hybrid and electric offerings..the power delivery is incomparable and unmatched.

But I'm a real car guy who likes to hear an engine roar and push the handling to the limits in the right conditions so anything's possible,my complete garage would be one with each body configuration,from a convertible to a pickup,I see all the nice brands in the mix..

T&T is full of premium and super cars,looking forward to join the super car club in the near future..

In reply to RemainsUnknown

We got them here in RHD 5.0 and 2.sumn,I would be lying if I told you they don't catch my eye,they look stunning...definitely worth considering in the quest for the perfectly balanced garage!

In reply to bravos

Yep!

In reply to RemainsUnknown

I love the design. No doubt. But ecoboost mustang? There are too many well tuned 4 door vehicles with great handling and styling to buy such a mustang!

GT or nothimg!

In reply to bravos

From what I've heard, the Teslas are terrific cars but the silence is going to drive me crazy. I want to hear the engine roar like a tiger, that is why I rode a high performance motorcycle.

I'm sure I can get use to it but it will take some time.

In reply to embsallie

Niceness, still waiting on my Model 3.

In reply to Tryangle
I am thinking the same way.

In reply to bravos

In reply to Ayenmol

Trust me it was a difficult decision, but there's more to my decision.

In the end, all I needed (wanted), really, was a car to commute long highway miles each day in 80% traffic to and fro work.

I could've gotten a slushbox Corolla, or a Prius, or a basic Civic.....but.....

I thought, while keeping the price manageable, why not something a little more fun & stylish, while being practical, & when I put my foot down, I would have some power to work with?

I'm coming from a Mazda 3 <-- my actual car, still have it. Fun, but no power (160 hp).

Based on the above criteria, I narrowed it down to the WRX & the Mustang. I went with the Mustang. 310hp, RWD, 6 Speed Stick Shift & 31 mpg.

Now, at the end of 3 years, I don't plan on keeping this car. I am a car-guy as well so I can't wait to get my hands on another fun toy.

So that's the thing... I get to play with it for a few years, then I'm onto the next fun toy....

In reply to black

We may have no choice but to get used to it,but it will offer it's own unique appeal,kinda like a big V12 prop engine vs a jet,of course the V12 sounded like it was nailing the role,until the jet engine came along and "VROOOOOOOOOOOM" was replaced by "voooooooooooooooosh"!!

And the rest is history..

We adapt easily,especially if it's in our best interest.

In reply to RemainsUnknown

I understand, but like i said, there are tons of cars that have sleek styling and are more powerful than an ecoboost mustang. I mean that thing is simply a focus with better styling...

A cts has more power than that...gives you four doors and is better styled.

btw the ecoboost is rated as 21 city/30 hwy/24 combined (automatic)..if you are driving a stick enthusiastically you are not even getting that!

In reply to Ayenmol

ok. Name some examples. using the factors I've outlined above.

price = under $30K
fun & stylish,
Practical = over 25 mpg combined
Power = 300+hp

Agreed, but @ a starting price From $45,995, it is out of the equation.

I get currently over 26+ mpg COMBINED. That's with having fun from time to time... hammering it healthily and then some, and cruising some, and MOSTLY in traffic which is BAD for this car's fuel economy.

So AGAIN..... I challenge you to come up with FEASIBLE comparisons. Thank you.

In reply to Ayenmol

!
The man explained his reasoning and you are still trying to get him to purchase a gas guzzler.

In reply to black

That's fine. This is why there are tons of cars to choose from.

To each, his own.

If he wants to buy me the CTS... all well and good. Otherwise, I'm allowed to throw MY money down the drain for any donkey-cart I want.

2017 Cadillac CTS
Luxury vehicle

Configurations
2.0L Turbo Base -- From $45,995
2.0L Turbo Luxury -- From $51,695
3.6L Luxury -- From $53,695

In reply to RemainsUnknown

Let me put it to you this way....a quick search for the top levels of both cars reveal the following..
A used Cadillac CTS V can be had for about 27000.
A used Mustang Gt can be had for about 26000.


There were about 18 used CTtS v available for sale on cars.com.
There were 252 mustang gt's available!
The median lowest priced cts v of the modern fare are 09's anywhere from 26-35 grand.

I saw a 16 gt for 25g's.
They cost about the same new! I would rather buy a used cts v than a mustang gt much less a new ecoboost! Gas prices are low!

In reply to Ayenmol

Ok, so now.... you're on a different tangent. Talking used car and ignoring all the factors I outlined above as a "requirement."

People buy/lease cars for different reasons.
You and I while it may seem that we differ, somehow, I feel we might be on the same page.

I'm looking at the GT (new), next. I just wanted to get my 'feet wet' with a 1st mustang.

I didn't wanted to put all my eggs into the 5.0 V8 immediately and regret it.

Like I said, you're comparing the ecoboost to the CTS V and everything else that's better.

ME? I'm comparing it [RWD @310hp] to the car I had before.

FWD @ 160hp Mazda 3.


Therefore, for me, it's an UPGRADE, regardless of a focus engine or what not.

I could care less. Once I get the PERFORMANCE & PRACTICALITY from it, I good. It could be made by Staples or Benz... I don't care.

If it malfunctions, I have the manufacturer warranty to cover ALL the cost for 3 years.

After all these flooding and what not..... I prefer NOT to take chances on USED cars.... I prefer not to take on someone else's headache....

Instead of diagnosing, fixing, repairing, and spend too much money on maintaining a USED car.... I rather spend my time away from work, my weekend, doing fun stuff (watching & playing sports) & spending time with family.

10 years ago... I would change oil, brakes, what not.... I'm passed that. I rather take that precious time and do higher priority stuff in my life.

Right now, my boy Nissan Rogue needs a new transmission..... he's CRYING how much it cost... yet he wants to go buy another used car.

I'm not tied to these cars..... I drive for fun.

Why would I want to buy a used GT when someone wring it out for the 1st 2 or 3 years of its life?

I like that new car-smell... I like new toys..... just my preference.

Like I said, maybe in 2 years.... I get the NEW GT...... as long as things don't change dramatically in life.

In reply to black
I am waiting on the new Japanese car which runs on water only.

The good thing about this new car is that it can run on tap water, sea water or river water. Does not matter.

Company just applied for a patent to mass produce these cars. Maximum speed is 85 miles per hour.

In reply to RemainsUnknown

I understand your preference...but I believe your initial argument practicality and cost. Yet you tout the virtues of leasing over buying used, while ignoring the fact that leasing is trap used to entice those who shy from new because of all the issues that new cars , particularly new models present. Sometimes those are the most expensive fixes!

You speak of used cars as if a car was made to last just 3 years. There are as many issues with new cars as there are with used ones, they are just different. I have never regretted purchasing a used car!
Easier to protect yourself against being trapped by a used car than new!

People who love to swear by new cars are posers who want to protect their status as new car buyers.
Truth is new car buyers are chomps!

Now.. I was not comparing a cts v with an ecoboost. But with a GT itself!
I can buy a 2016 Mustang GT for about the same price as an 09 CTSV...that means that I can Sell a n 8 yr old car that cost about 10 grand more than yours new for as much as yours will cost in a year, 8 yrs later...that is financial sense!

The malfunctions that you State are covered, in 3 yrs? Well mine would have already passed that stage, unless you consider brakes, fluid changes and suspension as malfunctions!

So yes you are buying a cheaper car new...but it is a cheaper car! That new car feeling last 3 months?

In reply to Star

What do you think the price of such a car would be?

In reply to Star

Wow! Didn't know they started producing them.

I wonder if the Jamaican dude sold his patent?

Manufacturers have been working on this technology for a while.

In reply to Ayenmol

You lost me a bit there...... anyway,

Bottom line for me:

Cheap car... fancy car...., new, used, don't care what any Tom, Dick, or Harry thinks. They are NOT paying for it.....

I drive for mainly the pure pleasure of the driving experience... if it can be practical... then that's a bonus.

Life's too short to worry too much about which car this and which car that....

PS. I enjoy driving this car more and more each day....

I hope you enjoy yours (if that's your goal) or maybe you're like most others, who just want to get from point A to point B.

In reply to Ayenmol

No idea what the price is going to be but I will hazard a guess it would be less than the current cars on the market.

In reply to black

They just applied for the patent to mass produce.

In reply to RemainsUnknown

Yeah not really. Your actions do not support that!

A driver who drives for the pleasure is one that chooses the the more powerful better designed and more durable over the cheap thrill.

You started of saying you bought this car because it was more economically feasible then started touting it's power and practicality.

You want power and practicality? I bought a 4 yr old cts years ago. 45000 miles...320hp v6, leather, heated and cooled front seats, keyless entry/ start sport suspension. Cheaper than that mustang, more practical more powerful better equipped and better quality vehicle. About 6 months after I bought it there was an issue with the catalytic converter that caused it to lose power, 2 grand fix! Covered under warranty still...i paid less than half the price of new. Guaranteed I can get within 5 grand of what you can get for yours! And keep up with you on the straights and smoke you in the twisted, while transporting my family of five in comfort!

Am happy you love your car and all, but don't tell me it was the best option for what you were looking for as someone interested in solely driving experience.

In reply to RemainsUnknown

Boxer engine.

In reply to embsallie

So the lack of noise in the Tesla don't drive you crazy? Guess it takes some getting used to.

I could see myself in a Tesla, but would I be willing to send it to California (from Toronto) if something goes wrong? Probably not.

In reply to CricketLuva4

Really?

I didn't know that.

Never owned one but they are known for quality.

In reply to Bigzinc

Flat 4 or 6?

In reply to CricketLuva4

I asked the same question.

In reply to RemainsUnknown

Interesting that the criteria ended with two very different beasts.

Even more different than my Civic SI vs WRX debate (going with the WRX, hopefully hatchback).

In reply to Ayenmol

Yeah not really. Your actions do not support that!</div>You must be psychic to tell that my actions in writing translates completely & exactly to my physical actions. Ok, then....

Your opinion....because I'm doing completely the opposite (in your opinion), yet, I'm reaping all the benefits of pure driving pleasure. I know it, cause I feel it.

true....

Good for you... if competing against what someone else is driving floats your boat... then that's you.

Apparently you need to compare a better a car to another car in order to think you get the best "feeling" out of driving it.....

I'm happy to cruise along in the right lane in my little Ford Fiesta. I hear those cars are quite enjoyable... but at under $20K new... that obviously is a bad car in your opinion and there is a better car to be had.... like I said, to each, his own...

Oh, btw, I don't need a 4 door. That's why I have the Jeep Grand Cherokee. Don't need to haul family in the 'stang... just for ME.......


I LIKE my car not LOVE.... I do LOVE driving.... & the Eco Boost is the BEST car that fits what I WAS LOOKING FOR.

Like I said... give me a Ford Fiesta with a stick-shift and I'm happy.

You were the one who started saying that people who have new cars like to boast, this and that... yet you're the one here boasting about how you can beat me in a race and your CTS is better and what not.....

I don't care dawg... I'm glad that makes you happy when you win a race.

I don't drive to race to the destination; I drive to enjoy the journey and that's MY win.

so you're into caddilacs or was it just a matter of price?

I got an XLR-V

In reply to embsallie

Nice, my kinda car

Cars I dream about owning before time expires on me are already parked by a certain trini

Oil soon come

In reply to Ayenmol

Btw, is your CTS a slushbox, automatic, sequential, yadda, yadda... or a man's stick-shift?

Auto vs Stick are WORLDS apart....I'm not talking performance, or price, or any of that.... I'm talking about being an aficionado of TRUE driving. Being more connected to your driving experience.

You driving your car, not your car driving you.

And for ME.... I enjoy a manual better than an auto.


PS. I think you got me wrong &/or I didn't explain myself properly.

For me, first and foremost, in order to have the pure driving pleasure your car has to be equipped with a clutch pedal..... if not.... you're in a different league.

You sound like you're into the pampering & luxury BS. Not me. Don't care for the bells and whistles.

Gimme powah, RWD, and a stick-shift... nothing else.

In reply to RemainsUnknown

Agreed. No matter how basic your car is, this is the core requirement.

Still making do with my 09 civic, 5MT.

In reply to CricketLuva4

Really, it's that SIMPLE.

I don't care how fast(er) your car is with any of the fanciest version of the high-tech sequential tranny... and the paddle shifters....

NO clutch...... means it's still a slush-box AUTOMATIC......

In reply to RemainsUnknown

I am curious, how did you end up debating between a WRX and a Stang?

Those two beasts differ even more than my two beasts (Civic SI and WRX).

In reply to CricketLuva4

You could always try fixing it yourself.

Yes, you could do like the late Radio DJ, Frankie Crocker, who I saw one evening in Great Neck, NY, in a traffic jam with the hood of his Rolls-Royce open and him trying desperately to fix something.

That was embarrassing.

In reply to Drapsey

I personally wouldn't back myself to fix an electric car, cars in general are so bloody complex these days.

My first car and even my 09 civic I can do everything that doesn't require power tools.

In reply to CricketLuva4

I could do a thing or two with my VW Beetle, my first car, and then followed it up with my Buick Regal. But then I moved up and bought a brand spanking new Acura Integra (1987).

Imagine the shock the first time I pulled the hood and couldn't recognize a single component. That marked the end of my car-repairing career.

Ok, I've changed oil and radiator fluids since, but rarely.

In reply to RemainsUnknown

I have never owned a stick in the US...waste of time! It does have a sequential gearbox and I never use that. I have no hills to climb that requires endless shifting to maximise economy.

Truck drivers are switching to automatics, if they can, some morning commuter ain't gonna tell me I need a stick to enjoy my ride.

The stick argument is so eighties it's ridiculous!

Bunch of stubborn people holding on to that fallacy.
Usually it's people who do straight line racing and feel like they are doing something with the rummaging of gears.

Real drivers take their cars on the back twisties and drive at the edge of it's holding capabilities!

Next you will tell me you like to use reachable diapers, cause that means you are an involved parent!

In reply to birdseye

Glad he treats her nice

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan

In reply to Drapsey

My sister owned a Buick Regal.


Traded it in for a Monte Carlo.

In reply to black

My Regal was white with blue landau roof, and topped off with blue velour interior (seats).

Oh, what luxury.

In reply to Drapsey

Very nice car, my sister's was a tan color, with burgundy interior.

In reply to Drapsey

The grand national was a sought after car back then.

In reply to StumpCam

40 MPG?

In reply to CricketLuva4

Wanted NEW, the price range, stick-shift availability, fun, car has some heritage, looks were appealing, decent MPG, etc. AWD subie for better grip all year or RWD for "more" fun year round in the 'stang.

Traversing the winter doesn't bother me as I said, we also have a Jeep GC to tackle the snow when required.

It wasn't more so the WRX vs the 'Stang. They both had their appeal to me... I just like both, but could only get one.

In reply to Ayenmol

In reply to RemainsUnknown

OK, conversation OVER. You wouldn't know. Just as I thought.


Useless, indeed. I agree.


Hills? Who cares. It's endless shifting to those who want to make excuses as to why they shouldn't/can't drive a stick shift. It's not ALWAYS about maximising fuel economy. It's about having the OPTION.

SO.... WHO CARES???

Didn't say you NEED it enjoy your drive. Just saying it's BETTER to have for the ride to be MORE enjoyable.

Be specific. Why is it ridiculous? Because you want to feel better about driving your slushbox?

Sure, if that makes you feel better driving your SLUSHBOX.

HAHA. ok.

I do ALL THE TIME. Was just there this weekend, actually.... and there is no substitute for down shifting and heel n toeing through a corner in stick shift.... you don't get that feeling in a SLUSHBOX.

Not sure what that is, but SURE, Let me know when you need that advice, I'll be sure to give it to you.

HAHAHAHA.

PS. Had a great drive this morning.