If the trend of heavy defeats continues, and if the board refuses to take responsibility, their status in the longest format could be in jeopardy.

Of all the harrowing days West Indies have endured on the Test grounds of the world over the past couple of decades - and heaven knows, they have been plentiful and persistent - none was as horrific as the two and a half it took to capitulate to Australia in the first Test in arctic Hobart.

The Australians were sensible enough to not expect a competitive challenge. Recent results alerted them to the situation. The tourists' loss by ten wickets to a Cricket Australia XI in their solitary lead-up match immediately justified the media's earlier proposal, impractical as it was, to switch the showpiece Tests in Melbourne and Sydney - assigned to West Indies - with those scheduled earlier for palpably stronger New Zealand.

Yet they couldn't possibly have foreseen just how limp West Indies would be at the start of a contest that offered them the chance to at least restore a little of their pride.

Full Story

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

Get rid of the old ways. Fire LLOYD
Get rid of him and his fellow miscreants who parade as selectors but is only a cushy job for them.

They are acting in not the best interests of the game and the region.

Look at the composition of out team facing Australia.

Is that a WI team?

That team is a disgrace to the people of the Caribbean.

In reply to rillo

Name the team you would have picked given the availability of certain players. Fcuk it, simply the team you would have picked to beat Australia or even to be competitive as unnu like to say

In reply to suddenI think Lloyd made two mistakes:
1. Picking cricketers without a team structure .... Reflection of no plan or poor decision making.

2. Devaluing the benefit of experience players with the right attitude to help create the desired team culture.

Now the team:

Squad of 15. 8 bats including a batsman that can bowl, 6 bowlers including a bowler that can bat and one keeper who must be a wicketkeeper-batsman.

The bats: 3 openers, 4 middle and one bat that can bowl.
Bowlers: one that can bat, captain JH; one spinner and 4 pacers.

Debate this structure, then the experience players who add to the team culture.

In reply to Blackbird

Given all that what would be your team to tour Oz given the same factors I posted to rillo?

Quite a few supporters have felt the same way for the longest time. However some apologists saw nothing wrong with the WICB as long their homeboys were in place and they could live vicariously through them to feel a misplaced sense of importance.

They are usually quick to pour scorn on the players and absolve the WICB of all responsibilities and instead focus on personalities, so some of the apologists have suddenly become critics of the WICB perhaps based on the passport.

The WICB is as it always was; nothing has changed!

Some food for thought in Cozier's article....

'A raft of post-mortems has inevitably followed, yet it remains difficult to foresee where West Indies cricket goes next. The most feasible, if disturbing, answers point to a split into the separate territories that have banded together for over 100 years, or else inevitable demise in Tests, with concentration solely on the shorter formats....Mahabir maintained that the present generation in their 20s would have no recollection of the heady times when West Indies ruled the world. All they know is an entity that languishes near the bottom of the ICC rankings for a couple of decades. His concern is that young fans increasingly favour supporting their individual territories, rather than enduring the embarrassment of West Indies' constant defeats. Six years ago Daren Ganga, then Trinidad and Tobago captain, who played 48 Tests for West Indies between 1998 and 2008, made a similar point. "If you speak to any West Indies player, you will hear them talking about this special affiliation to their country," he said. "When you play for the country that you were born in and brought up in and you sing your national anthem, it brings a different individual spirit to you." There is no such political entity as the West Indies. Its shareholders - Barbados, Guyana, Jamaica, Leeward Islands, Trinidad and Tobago and the Windward Islands - are all fully independent mini-nations with their own governments, currencies, flags and anthems. It is a wonder they have held together for over 100 years, since a 1900 tour of England. That unity has become increasingly fragile. More than one player, now unavailable due to their commitments to global T20 franchises, has told me they feel the West Indies they would officially represent is really the WICB. It is an interesting perspective, given the mutual lack of trust between the two.'

In reply to mikesiva

Where is the food for thought? What is new? This has always plagued WI and every regional institution- territorialism. The only thing that forestalled it was winning

In reply to sudden

You can't see the forest for the trees, can you?

In reply to mikesiva

If Ja wants to go on its own, why can't it? Why does everyone else has to agree to do the same. Why not just go? That I can't understand. The same goes for TT, just simply go. Don't argue over it. Don't try to persuade the others. If you believe you are right just do it. What can the others do ?

In reply to mikesiva

I see you have noticed too!

Tell these fools that if a vehicle is careening downhill it will at some point pick up momentum if it continues unchecked. Its called gravity: basic physics!

Some here love to try to distract us with trivialities.

In that case, jump off, don't accidentally crash. Ja can pull out of WI cricket today if it wants. Just do it. I am sure no one can do anything about it. It is that simple

In reply to sudden

I don't get that part either.

Its like they want to leave but they want the whole thing to break up first as some kind of insurance that it doesn't thrive on their departure.

For the love of Portia and Jack...go.

In reply to Commie
Based on the tournament being played now, none of the regional teams will survive on their own.
But the bigger picture that if every country goes its own way and applies to ICC, it will take 50 years for them to get Test status. They will join Hong King, Netherlands, Scotland. Ireland, Afganistan etc who are all ahead and still can't get any status.

It is very interesting , that the Sacred Scribes in the Region are now jumping on the band Wagon . For years
THEY have been aiding & abetting the
people in the WICB in their wilful
Maladministration of Cricket in the
Region .

All of a sudden , they have a Saul on the road to Damascus moment . When I have been critical of the Sacred Scribes , their Fans in this Forum
are very critical of me , when I criticize them .

In reply to jacksprat

Exactly....

The cracks are there, and they haven't done anything to repair them. When times are good, the cracks are ignored. But when times are bad, as they are now, they become exacerbated.

A comparison can be made to Scotland's status in Britain. When times were good, they were prepared to stay a part of Britain. Now that there's austerity, more and more Scots want independence. It will soon happen, unless something serious is done to improve the situation....

The same for the WICB and the governance of the West Indies. If nothing drastic is done, it will fall apart.

They're talking like Test status is this great sacred cow. Well, it's so sacred that nobody wants to go to the stadiums to watch it!

Only three men and a dog are turning up to watch Tests in the Caribbean. Members of my family back ah yard say we should go it alone, and try our luck with the Associates, and when I say, that might mean no Test cricket for a number of years, they say, so what? Nobody's watching it anyway!

In reply to mikesiva

Again. If Ja can see that WI cricket is going nowhere, why not hop off now? Why keep talking and talking? The JCA could pass a resolution to separate themselves from WI cricket. All unnu do is talk and talk

It is interesting what Chappel said," it was cruel to appoint such a young captain to such a weak team and to have him receive very little support from the senior players ".It looks like the experiment has gone bad.

In reply to mikesiva

You see it too?

These men's relevance resides in the existence of West Indies cricket. They need West Indies cricket now more than ever. Without, it no one would care about their opinion or even their insignificant, miserable existence.

If West Indies cricket should die I doubt it would be greatly missed by most in the Caribbean, anyway. As if it is, few of the youth even care about cricket anymore.

The passion I see for football & track and field has long ceased to to exist for cricket except for , mainly the older generation.

DREAMERS,

AFTER 20 YEARS IT APPEARS THAT EVEN COZIER HAS FINALLY ARRIVED AT THE POINT WHERE HE AGREES WITH THE SHEIK!!!

I WAS ALWAYS RIGHT ABOUT WONDIES CRICKET!!!

IT DUN!!!!!!

AND SOON I WILL BE PROVEN RIGHT ABOUT THE IMMINENT COLLAPSE OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION!!!

THE SHEIK IS ALWAYS PROVEN RIGHT EVENTUALLY!!!

WATCH THE PROCEEDINGS!!!!

OH RA$$!!!

FUNNY AS FCUK!!!

HA!HA!HA!

SHEIK

In reply to bobby

I and many I know don't care if the islands get test status but want the territories to compete on their own. If individual players want to play test cricket they could defect to a test nation like Eoin Morgan or the many other associate nation players who are good enough for test cricket.

I'm happy with T20 and ODI for the next "50 years" but that is not going to happen either. The ICC or the big three want a limited number of test playing nations anyway, so in 50 years do you really see 20 test playing nations?

In reply to BenGman

So why not just leave? I have been trying to get Mike or Jockstrap to answer but they avoiding. Be a bigger man and try to answer.

Heart of the matter

In reply to sudden

Disinegenous,

Ask yourself why so many players are "unvailable" let me point out why the players are "unavilable"



You like the WICB was given the answer but refused to read it. We cant pick a decent team cos everyone is "unavailable" because of the same stinking blight called the WICB!!


A different WICB might have had Kieran Powell, Kieron Pollard, Lendl Simmonds, Andre Russel, Fidel Edwards, Dwayne Bravo, Brendan Nash, Ramnaresh Sarwan, Leon Johnson, Kirk Edwards, Shiv Chanderpaul, any one of those without a doubt would be very welcome right now in Oz ahead of Chandrika, Dowrich, Hope, Roach, Blackwood and Samuels and Taylor

I wouldn't even mention Chris Gayle, as i believe his body really cannot manage 5 days of cricket, but even he too if better "managed" might have been willing to give it a go, even with this vindictictive and petty administration, he has turned out to play Test cricket injured, and had to be selected due to a lack of better options, now we see why, could he do any worse than Chandrika, would have to try very hard to.

And lest you mention how Sarwan for eg., is past his best, do not forget who sped up his decline, a sportsman needs to play matches to be matchfit, Sarwan was dropped, then you had the wranglings with the GCB which the WICB did nto get involved in which further sucked the man's desire to play professionally. Edwards an Powell have also have had their heads screwed with by their local boards, more small minded WICB henchmen.

You all are some real jokers, you all hate to see blame laid where it deserves to be laid. POINT tired tell unu, fish rot from the head!!

In reply to DIEHARD

Leave them alone . One thing I know for certain is that TEST Cricket aint going anywhere . Countries may stop playing Test Cricket , but I have absolutely no
doubt that Test Cricket will be here
forever .

Why ?? because it is the only continuous link with the Past , the Present , & the Future . It is the only true yardstick that can be used to assess the Talents of Past Players ; Present Players & Future Players .

For any Country in the Region to " Go
it Alone " without first testing the
new Structure of the Entity that is going to govern Cricket in the Region
abilities of the New Administration ,
to improve the standard of Cricket in the Region and make our Players fully
competitive in the International Cricket Arena .

In reply to DIEHARD

if shoite had wings it would fly. this is a circular argument that we had umpteen times but i will entertain you. suppose all what you say did not happen and you got this team on the park, do you think it would have done better than what obtained. and by better i mean at least draw the match?

The WICB is quagmire of BS...inextricably tied in are the regional boards and those therein with ambitions to enter the inner circle. The lpcal Boards as constituted are an extension of the self indulging WICB. If truly auto omous local Boards existed some sort of referendum could have been put to the floor....as it is that will never happen, with each board waiting their turn to maybee eat a food. Result nobody going nowhere unless the Govts call shot.

Whoever thinks that Test cricket is imporyant to the youth of today.....is drinking some special joy juice or smoking good spliffer. Its only going to get worse with more and more players making themselves unavailable for the WI in favour of maximizing their earning potential.

In reply to sudden
Disingenous.

We cant deifnitely say we would win, ..we talking about giving ourselves at least a chance of winning..was there any point in this recently concluded Test or do you think there will be any point in the rest of the series where we will look like winning?

This current team will never get a sniff, and not even appear competititive.

Never forget that this is pro- sports, and it is supposed to be entertainment at the end of the day...who de fork was entertained by that thrashing we got, nobody enjoyed that...nobody, it was a travesty, I wouldn't even tune in. I'd tune in had the players i mentioned in my earlier post been playing.

See for yourself what happened when we selected some of the players I mentioned vs a much stronger Ozzie team

In 2012

In 2009

all this back and forth and threats, i would like to see an exit plan whereby all those who want to leave, so declare and so declare their leaving date. it is that simple

In reply to DIEHARD

so losing 2-0 in a 3 test series in 2009 leads you to conclude that side would have done better? ok then. i hope you look at the scorecard and results of the first match

In reply to sudden

... correction, what they like to repeat. the mantra of HHGS???

In reply to natty_forever

when is Ja going to submit its plan to leave the WI cricket umbrella and forge its way in the world? i know Ja will be successful. WI cricket and its administration holding Ja back

In reply to sudden

... why, only you allowed?

In reply to sudden... working my way up ... as soon as I become prez, all that will change. Cowards a run the shop.

In reply to natty_forever

talk, talk and more talk. petition JCA. call Portia. call Cameron. Call Obama. mount a march on Kingston. but go please

In reply to sudden

Did you?

Do you think the 2nd and 3rd tests in 2015 are going to be like the 2nd and 3rd test in 2009?

Check the history of cricket teams in the past 10 years, visiting teams always do poorly in the first test, escpecially since WI cricketers are mostly part timers, it takes them a while to get going in a series. This lot's been playing a lot more cricket than the bunch in 21009, and they will get thrashed similiarly in all 3 tests

Maybe a simpler sport like footballl will do, would you rather support a team capable of losing 1-0 or a team that's going to get hammered 12-0 everytime they step on the park?

I like my chances with the 1-0 team, cos we might get lucky one day, and it will at least look mildly entertaining.

You must be trolling, you can't be serious to not know the difference


Btw, don't forget some of the players i mentioned won the Wisden Trophy, this lot will win nothing..boomark this

In reply to johndom90

You are a very perceptive person . For
over 10 years in this Forum I have been stating that there must be serious Structural Changes n Regional Cricket from an Administrative point of view .

What Cozier & Becca are writing these
days is a far cry from what they wrote 10 years ago . My take is that it is quite possible that had they been critical of the WICB , Cricket in the Region would not have declined as rapidly as it has .

In reply to sudden

I am sure you are one the idiots from the WICB.

That series said a lot ....that we have not seen since.

The fact that they were able to fight back (from humiliation) and went so close to drawing the series..

... is what you and your WICB comrades will never accept.

In reply to DIEHARD

Well if he is....he is coming up close to his 28,000 troll!

In reply to Cleg

He's shameless.

No intelligent being can reason like that

In reply to sudden

Ask yourself why the best players in the region do not want to play for this regime?
Then ask yourself if you would have made yourself available given the bs going on in the current set up?
Seeing the mercenary leagues will give a player time off to go and play for country then why don't the Selectors pick the best available team?

Was Simmons wrong when he said TOO MUCH OUTSIDE INTERFERENCE?

In reply to sudden

It's not my decision whether Jamaica or Trinidad goes it alone or not...you know that as well as I do.

Members of local boards are reaping the fruits from the trough just as much as the executive of the WICB.

The point some of us are making is that the West Indies is becoming irrelevant, largely thanks to poor governance, and failure to think for the future, and market it accordingly. Keith Mitchell was right to say that West Indies cricket could learn from Jamaican athletics.

Between 1977 and 1995, Jamaica did not win a single Olympic gold medal. However, the athletics authorities and stakeholders invested significantly in the infrastructure, creating grass-roots competitions, and ensuring there were top-class sprinting coaches throughout the island in this period of time. Jamaica's success at sprinting on the world stage is a result of that long-term vision.

Long-term vision is what's lacking, and if it's not arrested, and the WICB is not reformed, then a break-up is inevitable some time in the not-too-distant future...that's the point of this article.

In the late 1990s, I attended an election for the St James cricket association, where representatives of various clubs fought tooth and nail bitterly for posts within the organisation. They were clearly jockeying for the scraps that would be handed out by the Jamaica Cricket Association, and wanted to be in pole position. I didn't see the fans reflected in that election. What I saw was very disturbing, even then....

In reply to DIEHARD

ok. WI had a team on the up in Oz 2009 in a 3 match series they lost 2-0 , drawing one match and fighting hard. so what happened in the next couple series they played. did they carry on? i know you chose 2009 as you beginning point becos you want to say the we won the series against Eng in 2009 and lost it back a few months later. that is where you guys say the WI were gaining momentum under Gayle and the WICB interrupted such momentum with respect to convening the tour to Eng and other contract arrangements. it is something unnuh all say but subsequent tour prove other wise. in 2010 SA tour WI and what happened? oh yeah the boys were demoralised and didnt feel like playing fuh WI...

it seems to me that you fellas have constructed an argument around this narrow period as if WI cricket did not exist before and after and as if the said players didnt play before or after. there is a record you know. and please dont mention the 1 test match won in SA. man we have heard it all before.

In reply to mikesiva

well stop talking crap and hoping that the other territories break up so that you can go it alone on the backs of others. if Jamaicans feel so strong about going off on their own I am sure someone can mount a petition to the JCA, the WICB, Cameron, Portia etc.

seems like unnu afraid and cowardly. just break away damn it and leave the others to themselves.

In reply to sudden

The evidence speaks for itself.

Take from it what you will.

The WICB has been getting it wrong for decades. With the Gayle led team they were starting to get it right, until their arrogance and their love of themselves over the game got in the way

In reply to DIEHARD

Like I said we have heard it all before. And it is Shoite becos Gayle and the others have a past and in the context of WI and cricket history it ent pretty.


Anyway when can we expect unnu to unhitch unnu self from WI cricket and go boldly into the future?

In reply to sudden

Don't know why those facters quit talking and act boldly.

In reply to mikesiva

You have written a Masterpiece , take a bow . What you have stated is absolutely correct . You are correct when you state that the Local Boards are reaping the Fruits from the same Trough as the persons in the WICBC .

Obviously this unholy alliance is the
reason why Cricket in the Region is
spiralling downwards in a Bottomless Pit . You are also absolutely correct when you cite Poor Governance ;and failure to think for the Future , and Market accordingly .

Lacking Long Term vision ; refusing to invest in the Infrastructure of
Cricket in the Region ; and refusing to change the current Structure, with meaningful Reforms .

For over 10 freaking years I have stated those same sentiments that you have expressed here . Despite the Lackeys & Agents of those in the
WICBC being critical of what I write . Despite the utterances of the Sacred Scribes in the Region , who have lately had a Saul on the Road to Damascus moments .

Do not be dissuaded by those who are critical of you , they are the same
Clowns who are critical of what I write . Their criticisms only spurs
me on to be more critical of all those in the Region .

In reply to POINT

Exactly....

Some fools on this messageboard think I have power of attorney over the JCA trough-feeders who are eating the same food that the WICB parasites are enjoying.

No matter how many times I tell them I don't have the power to decide whether Jamaica stays or leaves, they keep on with their nonsensical foolishness....

I believe that until the WICB implement the Patterson Report with regards to governance, then there's no point to the West Indies, and countries might as well go it alone. Unfortunately, country cricket boards are in the hands of those who crave handouts from the WICB.

So, what do fans do? They give up on West Indies cricket, and cheer for their country in the CPL. They switch their attention to track and field athletics, and football. Why should anyone "act boldly" when they can do what I do, and pay more attention to the CPL, the Reggae Boyz, and Caribbean track stars?

It doesn't matter one whit whether individual countries go it alone or not...the WICB have so ruined Test cricket in the region that nobody goes to watch the West Indies play any more. They are stuck with a toxic product that nobody wants to watch.

Even the Aussies are moaning that this poor West Indies team has their cherished Boxing Day fixture....

In reply to mikesiva

In that case, like Point, you should join your cricket association and influence change. Stop moaning like Myrtle

In reply to sudden

... yes!

The experience alone amongst this team would be a factor.

In reply to sudden

... Yes again. Having been kept together it would stand to reason they would be a better unit come 2015.

In reply to natty_forever

We are venturing into probability here. And just as it is probable that WI could have done as you suggested or even better by becoming a world power if we had stuck with those guys, it is also probable that we could have done worse.

In reply to sudden...well for one, was this performance better than those mentioned? I think it is safe to speculate that we could have done better with a different line up.

In reply to natty_forever

well then...keep speculating

In reply to sudden

I do not currently reside in the Region . I was only there between 2001 - 2005 . I can assure you that if I was living in the Region I would be attending Meetings . of my Club ,and meetings of the Local Cricket Board .

In reply to sudden

sudden,

None of the players are as foolish as the supporters.

Dat is all.

In reply to nick2020

So I hope but I know I am wrong

In reply to mikesiva

Simple and it is evident that we are losing fans for years togather. All this give me 10 years and we would be winning story by Hillarie and Cameron is honey to the ears of the WICB apologists but the normal fan has gone elsewhere.

That is the fans power and when the product becomes so weak no one will want to invite WI. Last 2 times we had been very competitive in Aussie soil but this time we had been so poor and if we do not do well in the next 2 tests I would love to see when and how many tests we are going to get the next season

In reply to DIEHARD

Simmons
Brathwaite ( gayle injured else would be here)
Lil. Bravo
Samuels
Brendan Nash
Chanders
Bravo
Ramdin

The above batting line up would have given WI lot more teeth with youngsters tried when someone is injured / out of form. But all the experience was stashed in one go between 2010-2012 to make way for poor unprepared yoingsters