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Test players ave to Tour England equals 21.45

 
sgtdjones 2017-07-17 13:13:46 

CWI selectors are sending this team to Tour England.


Roston Chase 48.53
Jason Holder 30.71
Kraigg Brathwaite 35.61
Jermaine Blackwood 31.33
Shane Dowrich 28.77
Kieran Powell 27.40
Shai Hope 19.57
Devendra Bishoo 16.30
Shimron Hetmyer 16.00
Kemar Roach 10.38
Miguel Cummins 6.00
Shannon Gabriel 5.26
Alzarri Joseph 3.00
Kyle Hope - 000
Raymon Reifer 000


13 Test Players with that average of 21.45

A dry and humid summer awaits, so our friend RAIN is not expected.
The ball swinging, veteran seasoned, Pommie team vs CWI and an inexperienced bunch of players !!!!

What do you think will happen?

Sheep to the wolves.

Now do we see why the players should not be criticized.

Is a beat dong of epic proportion awaiting CWI players?
Within how many days are we expected to wave the white flag?

We saw what happened to the women's team. Now they lack confidence.

shock shock

 
navindesigns 2017-07-17 14:30:10 

In reply to sgtdjones

if I was selected, I would have withdrawn and play CPL instead which is a lot more fun

 
tc1 2017-07-17 14:34:02 

In reply to sgtdjones

do me a favor, Tamarind, substitute Samuels(Blackwood) Simmonds (Powell) Sammy (holder)
Ramdin ( Dowrich ) and reevaluate

 
sgtdjones 2017-07-17 14:50:33 

Lord Nelson tc1

If those players you mentioned were selected they have experience playing in England.
I am not saying they wouldn't get a beatdong.

I am looking at CWI players and their mental disposition after the Tests in conditions
that will be new to them.

The women's team are shell shocked and they had a few players with experience.

shock

 
imusic 2017-07-17 14:54:38 

In reply to tc1

Why not Gayle for Brathwaite? Or Darren Bravo for Hope? Or Dwayne Bravo for Holder? Or anybody for Cummmins?

 
rubberd 2017-07-17 15:18:35 

So if each player achieves his average throughout the series then 300 is a big ask.
We need a few players to up their game.

 
tc1 2017-07-17 15:37:02 

In reply to imusic

I was trying to replace role with role, but if you want to swap D. Bravo for Holder, Gayle for Brath, and Darren for Chase.
Go ahead and do it , let see how much the Avg move.

 
tc1 2017-07-17 15:46:07 

In reply to sgtdjones

Tamarind don't get your panties wet, you don't wear any?

I agree with your statement and my point is that The team with superstar are Averaging the same as the non -stars,
however, an experienced team may perform better, but the non stars may perform just like the superstars

 
imusic 2017-07-17 16:19:59 

In reply to tc1

Why not Gayle for Brathwaite? Or Darren Bravo for Hope? Or Dwayne Bravo for Holder? Or anybody for Cummmins?


I was trying to replace role with role,


Gayle (opener) for Brathwaite (opener)

Darren Bravo (#3/middle order batsman) for Shai Hope ( #3/middle order batsman)

Dwayne Bravo (all rounder) for Holder (all rounder)

Anybody (take your pick) for Cummins (bowler?)

 
tc1 2017-07-17 16:47:29 

In reply to imusic


Darren would be the #3 batsman to UK and was part of the team ,U cannot swap any body for Cummins, fast bowler for fast bowler.

Listen, anyway u slice it, the superstar AVG are marginal better when compare to the non-superstar.

 
imusic 2017-07-17 17:12:20 

In reply to tc1

Listen, anyway u slice it, the superstar AVG are marginal better when compare to the non-superstar.


Chris Gayle test batting average 42.18

Kraigg Brathwaite test batting average 35.61


Darren Bravo test batting average 40.00

Shai Hope test batting average 19.57


Marginal eh? rolleyes

 
openning 2017-07-17 18:12:46 

In reply to tc1

Let me help you out bro;
Can Gayle last a full day in a test match?
Kraigg Brathwaite is not Gayle's replacement, if anyone think Chris can last a day, then Kraigg will be his openening partner.
Darren Bravo, should be the #3 batsman
I would not pick any of the T20 specialist for a test series, until I see their performances in a regional 4-day game.

 
jen 2017-07-17 20:04:52 

In reply to imusic

Gayle for Brathwaite shouldn't even be used as Brathwaite has been our best test opener since Gayle left. Gayle for Powell/Kyle/Hetmeyer whoever opening with Brathwaite.

 
tc1 2017-07-17 20:22:19 

In reply to openning/ Imusic

U have to read Tamarind Jones post to follow what happening, the stars/ Seniors are Gayle, simmonds, Pollard, big Bravo ,Ramdin, Samuels and Sammy.

Lil Bravo played on the last tour and will be on this tour had he not confronted the big idiot, and in my scenario is still with the current team.
if you replace Gayle, Ramdin, Samuels, Bravo and Sammy with Brath, Dowrich, Blackwood, Chase and Holder, the performance in term of AVG is marginal.
but Imusic want to replace Bravo with Shai, Gayle with Brath and Cummins with anyone to gain an advantage in AVG.

 
tc1 2017-07-17 20:23:29 

In reply to imusic

why don't u match Chase with bravo?

 
Cricket_101 2017-07-17 20:33:12 

In reply to sgtdjones

Even with the best team selected, we haven't done squat. If we want to be competitive, Cricket in the region must improve ASAP. As it is, our batting ain't that bad, but the bowling is atrocious. On a good day we can bowl out a side, but those days are seldom and far apart.

 
CITYBOY 2017-07-17 20:47:21 

Hola et al.....

This bunch will do just fine......the batsmen just need to occupy the crease ...bat long and stay focus....same goes for the bowlers.
The train has left and those supposedly star players..who incidentally did not bring us glory are not needed....
We need to work with what we got...not what we had...
Adios
CB

 
googly1961 2017-07-17 21:06:36 

Let the slaughter of the lambs begin...

 
Kay 2017-07-17 22:20:25 

In reply to sgtdjones

Roston Chase 48.53

And all the time according to the experts on here I thought no current player in the WI has a 40+ average...

 
tc1 2017-07-17 23:02:53 

In reply to Kay

too early, let's wait until he played 30 games

 
imusic 2017-07-18 01:25:37 

In reply to tc1


why don't u match Chase with bravo?

Because he's not a #3 or even a #4 batsman

And we all hope that by the time England done with he, that he doh end up like Kuk

 
nick2020 2017-07-18 05:32:38 

In reply to imusic

Why debate a lead post that is horribly flawed? Including two players as 000? Looking at batting average for bowlers?

He could have stuck to the batsmen to make him point.

 
jacksparrow 2017-07-18 08:20:06 

The selectors seem to be trying but the selections need some fine tuning. Might be complicated now with the veterans back, but they need to get the right players for the right format.
On another note, Kyle Hope - justified selection?

 
sgtdjones 2017-07-18 09:06:32 

In reply to nick2020

Why debate a lead post that is horribly flawed? Including two players as 000? Looking at batting average for bowlers?

He could have stuck to the batsmen to make him point


Since ya clueless I will take you through the flawed data.

Including two players as 000?


These two have not played Test cricket as yet and they were not included in the average.

Looking at batting average for bowlers?


So the bowlers don't bat huh ? The bowler's runs are not added to the team total huh ?


Now ya see why you are flawed and not the lead post.

 
tc1 2017-07-18 10:08:54 

In reply to imusic


Here you go again predicting doom and gloom for a Bajan player, could not keep your envy out of the discussion.


u r completely ignoring what the original post which is the superstar/ senior vs the experienced team.


if you were to replace Powell, Blackwood, Holder, Dowrich, and Chase with Gayle/Simmonds, Samuels, Sammy, Ramdin and Dw Bravo, there is no significant rise in the avg, or that the inexperienced group average will be higher.

What u want to do is selectively use players to have predetermined result.

 
tc1 2017-07-18 11:01:46 

In reply to sgtdjones

Tamarind Jones many here did not read your post, it IMO was an attempt to look at the inexperienced team and predict the overcome playing in England without the senior players.

 
Slipfeeler 2017-07-18 11:41:38 

In reply to imusic

big grin big grin big grin big grin

 
sgtdjones 2017-07-18 11:46:28 

In reply to tc1

Lord Nelson tc1

The gist of my thread is not about the seniors.

It's about players selected playing in conditions that are new to them, many lacking in experience and proper technique and against a seasoned Pommie team, chomping at the bits after South Africa.

Let's look at the women's team and the series of beatdongs and low scores, yet they had a few season veterans. When the seniors failed a collapse of epic proportions resulted. A few of the ladies ended up in tears.

Look at the men's team nothing as such exists to keep the dressing room confidence up.A new coaching staff doesn't help the situation.

With CWI and WIPA mending fences with the seniors, extra pressure
being added. Players will be wondering will I be left out when such occurs upon their return.

A lot of incidentials to look at other than playing the game.

 
Kay 2017-07-18 11:59:54 

In reply to tc1

too early, let's wait until he played 30 games

Yeah we heard this tune before when Kraigg was failing early in his career. So we waited for him to play his 30 games and now although his average is lingering in the mid 30's he is still hailed as our saviour and best thing since the slices... smile

 
ellisstreet 2017-07-18 12:45:59 

In reply to CITYBOY


The train has left and those supposedly star players..who incidentally did not bring us glory are not needed


Well said!

 
ellisstreet 2017-07-18 12:46:08 

In reply to CITYBOY


The train has left and those supposedly star players..who incidentally did not bring us glory are not needed


Well said!

 
imusic 2017-07-18 13:10:33 

train or donkey cart?

 
DIEHARD 2017-07-18 14:41:56 

In reply to ellisstreet

Wisden trophy..cough cough..South Africa test victory..cough..the "stars" been disbanded so long, y'all havent seen the stars play together in a Test match in almost 10 years..give u guys amnesia..

 
DIEHARD 2017-07-18 15:06:52 

Series stats from the last time we had close to or best XI play a Test series against a team other than Bang or Zim

Please compare to what obtained in WI last home series vs Pakistan


How is that for forking perspective.

Lemme spell it out for you..all batsmen on that team with Sammy as captain ( politics had already started) except Kurt Edwards, Kieron Powell..and the bowlers..averaged over 30.


On this current team..only Holder ..and Roston Chase..averaged > 30..who needs stars..right?

Disingenuous skunts kmt

 
tc1 2017-07-18 16:20:36 

In reply to STG Jones




It's about players selected playing in conditions that are new to them, many lacking in experience and proper technique and against a seasoned Pommie team, chomping at the bits after South Africa.


Explain this if it's not about Seniors

Look at the men's team nothing as such exists to keep the dressing room confidence up.A new coaching staff doesn't help the situation.

 
CITYBOY 2017-07-18 16:31:52 

Hola...living in the past..citing statistics from 3 years back of players who have zero interest of playing test.Let the stars earn their money they deserve to...but lets build for the future and stop qualming about history....
sure we will get a cut arse...but we have been getting that for quite sometime.....but then again we may not..Lets play on......England here we come..
Adios
CB

 
sgtdjones 2017-07-18 16:32:37 

In reply to tc1

Lord Nelson tc1


It's about players selected playing in conditions that are new to them, many lacking in experience and proper technique and against a seasoned Pommie team, chomping at the bits after South Africa.


Explain this if it's not about Seniors



So simple to hexplain.

Look at the list of players selected in my first posting.
I am only writing about them.

Most of these players lack the experience of playing in the English summer. The days can vary considerably, so the
winds, temperature, and weather.

Lara noted in a speech that one needs two seasons to become confident playing in England, these players don't have such.

Look at the Pommies they are playing in conditions that favor them.

If CWI team scores more than 200 runs in an inning, I would be surprised. I see a couple of innings under 100 and more in the range of 150.

Playing a couple of seniors with this bunch may end up just as the women's recently concluded tourney. Collapse city.

 
CITYBOY 2017-07-18 17:42:01 

In reply to sgtdjones

Hola....England can be two faced to play in..by this I mean ....sometimes the ball swing 3 times before it reaches you...and sometimes the ball just do nothing...
Adapting to the pitch on any given day depends on ability to concentrate and just block things out ...concentrate ...concentrate...runs will come and it gets easier...I expect good things from Braithwaite and Shai......
if the ball dont swing Hety will play through and make a pile of runs.
Adios
CB

 
tc1 2017-07-18 18:37:37 

In reply to sgtdjones


Contrary to your belief, England is the easiest play to make runs, in 1950 Worrell, Weekes Walcott , Strollmyer all scored more than 1000 runs on tour,
in 1963 - Seymour Nurse, Easton McMorris, Carew, Sobers, Kanhai, Hunte, and Butcher all scored over 1500 runs.

Bill Lawrey, Bob Simpsons and many more score almost 2000 runs on tour.Lara scored 400 runs in one innings.
If you can bat, you make runs in England.

Your postings site that in experience players will fail due to lack of technical skill, the weather, leadership and the pommies playing in a favorable condition to them.

Playing a couple of seniors with this bunch may end up just as the women's recently concluded tourney. Collapse city.

 
imusic 2017-07-18 18:55:45 

in 1950

And tc1 was there to pussonally witness lol

 
tc1 2017-07-18 19:56:51 

In reply to imusic
yes indeed

 
sgtdjones 2017-07-18 21:13:23 

In reply to CITYBOY


Hola....England can be two faced to play in..by this I mean ....sometimes the ball swing 3 times before it reaches you...and sometimes the ball just do nothing...
Adapting to the pitch on any given day depends on ability to concentrate and just block things out ...concentrate ...concentrate...runs will come and it gets easier...I expect good things from Braithwaite and Shai......
if the ball dont swing Hety will play through and make a pile of runs.
Adios
CB


I agree with you about how the ball plays on certain days.

You mentioned one-word concentrate, I am glad you did. Over the last two decades, we have had less than a handful who can do this consistently. This is our weakness, the players today having difficulty focusing and concentrating. The get out by repeating the same mistake over and over.

I am having a hard time seeing this CWI team making a bunch of runs in England this summer.

Let's look at the incidentals

Movement of ball, a flaw in CWI team
Lack of experience in England
Bad fundamentals 50% of the time
Cow corner players
Focusing and concentration missing on occasions
CWI players do not value their wicket.
Bowling questionable, Saint Gabriel, Roach get injured too often.

A well experienced English team that just came off a hard fought
series with South Africa.

Sheep to the wolves.

 
sgtdjones 2017-07-18 21:22:45 

In reply to tc1

Lord Nelson tc1


Contrary to your belief, England is the easiest play to make runs, in 1950 Worrell, Weekes Walcott , Strollmyer all scored more than 1000 runs on tour,
in 1963 - Seymour Nurse, Easton McMorris, Carew, Sobers, Kanhai, Hunte, and Butcher all scored over 1500 runs.


So you are saying on CWI team that will be in England shortly, we have players of the caliber you noted above?
The players you have posted above are such, that they come by once in a lifetime.

I don't see any on the present team that can lace the shoes of such distinguished past players mentioned.



big grin big grin big grin

 
CITYBOY 2017-07-18 21:30:38 

In reply to sgtdjones

Hola....the concentration part has to be rule no 1 for the coaching and management team.....too much emphasis is placed on running around with a soccer ball...hitting and catching(those are good things)...but the batsmen have to get in the nets and bat and bat...know where their off stump is ...and just bat...these young ones can be brought along but we need to let them understand that its easy to get selected...and just as easy to be discarded.....and if they want to stay on the world stage,earn respect and earn big bucks they have to concentrate and produce.....no baby talk...big man talk..
They will be ok.
Adios
CB

 
DIEHARD 2017-07-19 09:26:24 

In reply to CITYBOY

Hola...living in the past..citing statistics from 3 years back of players who have zero interest of playing test.Let the stars earn their money they deserve to...but lets build for the future and stop qualming about history...


lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

Mereley exposing your disingenuity displayed here

The train has left and those supposedly star players..who incidentally did not bring us glory are not needed


Stats say their performances were not embarrasing and wofeully below par.

They did not bring us glory, but its not this shameful onesided non performing business, had they been persisited with, I have absolutely no doubt we'd be ranked at least 5th in Tests versus where we are now evil

 
CITYBOY 2017-07-19 10:49:51 

In reply to DIEHARD

Hola....
Lets not get hang up on yester year's performances by some of our better players.These players through their ability and performances are in high demand and paid extremely well to play in T20's in various leagues.
Their playing days are limited and they need to maximise that window of opportunity.We can bawl and beg for them to come and represent WI in test...but bottom line ..they have no interest...why would they want to risk injury?
As such our newly selected players have to carve out their own niche.No longer can one ask advice of an experienced player...as none is around...and the odd one that does stay around for a game or two has no interest(and really you cannot blame them) in helping or imparting some knowledge.
Having an inexperienced team that potentially have a fair bit of talent is not an issue...if you have a "TURN TO CAPTAIN"..
A captain who can lead and inspire....consistently...and perform..a TURN TO CAPTAIN will make a helluva a difference.
Adios
CB

 
DIEHARD 2017-07-19 11:48:48 

In reply to CITYBOY

Dude.

You were less than honest re their past contributions..THAT is what i was highlighting..the oft repeated lie in this forum, that performances then were no worse than they are now.

NO ONE is having a debate with you on this thread about their worth now, revisit the stats i posted earlier

Just stop the LIE that they were no better than this lot..they are worlds apart

 
buds 2017-07-19 12:11:00 

Bajans on vacation..How nice.

 
CITYBOY 2017-07-19 13:19:11 

In reply to DIEHARD

Hola...only a fool would argue that a few of the past players were not/are a bit talented (they have the stats to prove that they were) and yes we can say they possessed a bit more talent than some of the current players....
Why they are not in favor with the CWI is not for me to debate/defend...thats their issue..both parties..CWI and Players..

But i have no reason to give up on this current crop and have/entertain a wishful thought that all will be well if and when.."STARS" are given greenlight or selected to play....
The players picked deserved to be picked...and we need to give them a chance and stop comparing them to others....we read what Mr.Gayle said..."give the youngsters a chance."
Mirages are never real...they just mirror what you want to see and yearn for.
Adios.
CB

 
Kay 2017-07-19 13:35:48 

In reply to DIEHARD

Just stop the LIE that they were no better than this lot..they are worlds apart

On a scale of 1-10 you know 1 is a world apart from 4 but guess what? They both suck...

 
tc1 2017-07-19 15:28:55 

In reply to Kay

did your great linger in the 30s for years, KB will reach 40, but he needs to improve his batting, not my type of player.


What I was trying to point out, it's too soon to say that Chase will be a 4o Avg player. he has not played enough to predict as to whether he would average 40.

 
DIEHARD 2017-07-19 16:25:32 

In reply to Kay

But ..is 4 less than 1??

lol lol lol

If you broke..you in debt and desperately need $10grand...and u offered $4grand vs $1grand..which one u gonna take??

lol lol

Neither getting you where you need to be..but the $4G going gonna give u a lot more comfort lol lol

 
DIEHARD 2017-07-19 16:28:03 

In reply to CITYBOY

Honest Truth..WICB screwed up.

It's on them to get the best XI with a chance of winning games..had the "star" players been kept in the fold..they could have been able to integrate in the youngsters..keep the "stars" involved. match fit and focused, and as i said earlier..we'd be no lower than 5th.

Annyways...coulda woulda shoulda...is what it is, spilt milk, WICB kicked over the carton lol

 
tc1 2017-07-19 20:49:57 

In reply to DIEHARD
[i]
.we'd be no lower than 5th[/i]


Explain , when the stars were playing we were rank 8th

 
DIEHARD 2017-07-20 08:05:37 

In reply to tc1

Remember our cricketers learn on the job.

Their stats improve over time.. Look at Gayle and Samuels for example.

I'm saying their experience and the addition of some of the current crop.. Would have led to results.

Don't forget that the teams progress gets detailed by admin.. Every time there was a small step forward.

Like arranging to give back the Wisden trophy.

Removing Gayle as captain shortly after for someone who couldn't make the team.. Removing Logie as coach..if the team was being properly run..with the best XI and decisions made based on the cricket..top 5