Straight from the run machine's mouth

In reply to Larr Pullo

is that really what the data says?

it would be interesting if it does...

let's take a look

in 2018 when he last played

from June 6 to July July 12 - in the space of about 6 weeks

he played 5 test matches, batted 9 times, scored 161 runs, 2 50s, avg 18.55

In reply to Larr Pullo

He Played 43 tests, do you know what is preparation was, after regional tournaments?
Sir Everton told me and my Antiguan buddy about the work Viv did, which prepared him for tournament, and Seymoure Nurse is the only batsman, he know of, that practice seven days straight, in preparation for Australia.

in 2009 in the space of about 8 weeks - Feb 6 - March 6, 2009

he played 5 test matches, batted 6 times, scored 165 runs at 27.5, 1 50s

In reply to Larr Pullo

What Devon is leaving out is that one has to use one's mental strength to ignore all that and perform every chance he gets.

In reply to doosra

The answer lies in the two half centuries. Compare that with other openers who have gone far longer without half centuries and similar avg are still certainties on the team sheet. You could look it up.

In 2003 from April 10 to May 09 (about 4 weeks)

he played 4 test matches, batted 8 times , scored 189 runs, avg 23, 2 50s

In 2004 between May 28 and July 29 (about 8 weeks)

he played 4 test matches, batted 7 times, scored 150 runs, zero (0) 50s, avg 25


In 2007, between May 17 and June 15, in the space of about 4 weeks

he played 4 test matches, batted 7 times, scored 149 runs, avg 21, 1 50s

Those are 5 ocassions/series where Devon Smith played 4 or 5 test matches within the space of 5-8 weeks ...total of 22 test matches

so to say that he played 1 here, 2 there, does NOT correspond with the actual data

In reply to Larr Pullo

I wish Campbell & Brathwaite felt the same way

Where have their runs gone?

In reply to doosra

The data you should be looking at are his scores and during those periods, then compare with other openers.

If a batsman scores a fifty, followed by two starts, then gets dropped, he starts to think he is being targeted. I encourage you to compare him to other WI openers and if you're not biased you'll see a pattern.

Mind you, NONE of the batsmen that they have replaced him with have the FC record he has and they all came through the same system.

In reply to Yadi

Exactly!!!

But they'll both likely play in the next test series.

In reply to doosra

So he was dropped after every series he played?

In reply to Larr Pullo

i am addressing his point about a game here and 2 there...

the data suggests that he had at least 5 series of 4 or 5 test matches and in all (22 matches) he scored 6 50s from 37 innings at an avg of 23 or something like that...

that is not what he said

In reply to doosra

Seriously? you act like you don't understand West indian idiom. Get the fuck outta here!!!

In reply to Real-cricket

no

in his first year 2 years 2003 -2005

he played 16 test matches in 7 series (3 consecutive in 2004, 3 consecutive in 2005), batted 30 times, scored 1 100 and 3 50s, avg about 24

In reply to Larr Pullo

i understand facts and data and i know when ppl are using them loosely to their advantage

west indian idiom? another way to describe fake news?



come on Larr

the data is saying Devon Smith had extended opportunities...

In reply to doosra

That's your interpretation, and we all know how biased you are.

So far you've refused to compare him to any other opener which of course is just you displaying more of your bias.

In reply to doosra

Actually, the data (that you posted) suggests quite the opposite.

In reply to Larr Pullo

so facts don't matter anymore???

how else can you interpret that?

a man said he had a game here and 2 there....i showed that that is NOT true

you counter it by said west indian idiom

i showed that in his first 2 years he played 16 test matches and had twice 3 consecutive series

what he said was west indian idiom yes...

In reply to Larr Pullo

i have addressed his point about a match here or there

u can start a thread with other openers etc

In reply to JOJO

1. i posted those to show he played beyond 1 and 2 matches he said he had...i pointed 5 ocassions (i picked those to address the 1 or 2 match here and there...

and

2. i posted 1 stat with him playing 16 matches over 2 years in 7 series, twice 3 series consecutively

In reply to doosra

Did he play all the games in the consecutive series? When he was dropped did his replacement's performance exceed his? These are questions that HAVE to be asked if you're truly examining whether a player was treated poorly by the selectors, or not!

You just CAN NOT hold yourself out as a serious analyst if you don't examine your data from ALL possible angles. This is something that you REPEATEDLY fail to do and it's distasteful and shows your bias!!!

In reply to doosra

I started this thread and you come with your frontin' self come posting selective stats then telling me I should start ANOTHER thread.

Dude GTFOH!!!

i have addressed the statement he made

he is not telling the truth

and you defended it by saying it is west indian idiom

what ever else you wish to analyse to make some other point you are free to do so

In reply to Larr Pullo

you cannot refute the facts i present so what larr does?

larr hides under his cloak

i thought you are a grown man by now

In reply to doosra

...and I am sure you know that he did not mean that literally, so I do not know where you are going with this argument. The data that you posted validates his point--that he was not given a good long run.

In reply to Larr Pullo

i posted stats that dismissed the opinion you presented

i will continue to dismiss lies and half truths with facts when they are available

you can run with idioms all you want

if u come with a statement that is not what the data is saying, i will point it out

now go explain what is west indian idiom

In reply to JOJO

stop your nonsense

in 2007-2009 over 2 years he had 15 matches across several series and he continued to fail

so let me repeat and stop indulging you and larr

1. he said he has a match here and there...the data showed he had 4 or 5 consecutive matches

2. across 2 periods of 2003-2005 and 2007-2009 he had 22 and 15 matches respectively across multiple consecutive series...

that is what the data is saying...

so his point about not having an extended run is far from the truth, even if he were exaggerating a little bit...

i have nothing else to say on this

deal with the data

in 43 matches/ 76 innings he had scored 1 100 and 8 50s...

In reply to doosra

You are lying again.

I started a thread highlighting what Devon Smith said in his own words.

Not only do you attempt to lie with statistics, now you're lying with your fingertips!!!

In reply to Larr Pullo

with data?




and i showed the data is saying otherwise



i presented data...now stop throwing a tantrum and deal with the data

In reply to doosra

Why are you continuing this? There is already an admission from JOJO. In case you missed it:

In reply to Courtesy

oh man, i should have known and stopped when Larr said west indian idiom

In reply to doosra

"Facts are stubborn things." John Adams.

In reply to Larr Pullo

Having a good memory is an important part of being a good batsman.

Devon has selective memory, but he knows who he is appealing to. It might work.

In reply to Courtesy

very stubborn

but i think there is now competition from the fake-truthers...

In reply to Headley

thankfully we do have some data available

In reply to doosra

Devon Smith's statement is very disingenuous (I scrutinized the facts presented above and laced it with JOJO's statement). I am sure he wished he had never given this interview. His statement should rightfully be scrutinized and the naked facts brought to light.

Devon will now feel the wrath of odium and ridicule from his scrutineers. I'll start with my ridicule.

Devon Shit.

In reply to doosra

Yeah with the frequency of fake Uni degrees that are prevalent in the GT you should know about fake truth.

In reply to Headley

Cricket is not a zero sum game. Statistics cannot be analyzed in a vacuum. Fine you want to replace a player, but does the replacement exceed the replacee in performance? When compared at the lower levels, does he consistently outperform the player he is competing against?

In reply to Larr Pullo

i certainly do

but at the level you reason things I now strongly believe grads from those institutions will challenge your thinking in many respects

"Is come down I come down to tell you I am not coming down."

The late George Odlum exposing idiocy.

In reply to doosra

In reply to Larr Pullo

now on a serious note if u want to talk about other players compared to Devon, that is another question

raise it and list some players and pose a few questions

and get the data and make your point...

i can assist with the data when I have some more free time

Who are these players that Devon is speaking of? Players with 4-5 match failures and continued being picked...

In reply to doosra

Now.you.want.to.be.serious.

In reply to doosra

I'll raise my hand and say loudly Shai Hope. But thank goodness CWI stuck with him instead of Devon whatever his name.

In reply to Larr Pullo

having dismissed all of your arguments thus far

i can continue to unleash some more destruction

In reply to Courtesy

I am not opposed to looking at a list of players who Devon seh had 4-5 match failures and continue to get picked ahead of him

In reply to doosra

But as you said, this is an entirely different perspective.

I wonder why Larr stood on his hind legs to defend Devon with his shit.

In reply to Courtesy

You should get a new prescription. I was actually mounting your wife.

In reply to Courtesy

clearly, Larr still thinks Devon is good enough for intl cricket

and that he has been dealt a raw deal

In reply to Larr Pullo

You just fell on your ass in public.

You think I have the power to stop your fantasies. Play with Pamela as much as you want.

But I will never, never, never attempt to hop your wife..

In reply to doosra

As I have frequently contended, No player should be cast aside in our setup. Especially one who frequently outbats all the other resources available to us at the FC level.

[bY]In reply to doosra[/b]

Larr should get his two heads examined pronto.

In reply to Larr Pullo

rubbish.......darren ganga had the same issue with selectors despite scoring back to back hundreds against the world's best team of the day.....devon smith's problem is he couldn't bat pace(emphasized by brett lee knocking him out cold), and he was even worse versus spin(his 4 dismissal run to hafeez was the most horrific thing i have seen on a cricket field. i have never seen one batsman look so incompetent except probably de boy who score a first ball to a slow wide allan donald delivery in 2001....cant even remember his name). Too bad if his board had influence they couldda barter so he could get a recall every other tour like marlon samuels with a 36 avg

Leon Garrick dat was his name

Link Text
memories...de kinda failures who represent this once great side without a peep from some posters here shows where their interests lie

In reply to Jumpstart

Shiv was knocked out cold by Brett Lee so you say that emphasized he couldn’t bat pace?

Lara got lick down by Akhtar, that emphasized he couldn’t bat pace?

Bravo lick down Kevin Pietersen and had his helmet fall on his wicket, that emphasized he couldn’t bat pace?

BTW Smith wasn’t knocked out by Brett Lee as you put it. He was hit in the same innings he made 88 or 89 I think against Aus.

In reply to Jumpstart

Watch more of Ganga.

In reply to Larr Pullo

That was nasty and an indication that you are unable to stand a proper debate. Disgusting from a QC boy. learn to bow out gracefully when you are told the truth.

In reply to anandgb

The low scums of this earth, should be treated with disdain.
Ask brother Duke, about the way him and his professional knowledge was attacked..

In reply to Larr Pullo

Firstly............lara got licked down by a chucker, not a bowler. If shoaib had played in our time of increased vigilance and the relative irrelevance of boards outside the big three, he would have been called in a heartbeat.
So that point is null and void

In reply to Real-cricket

No he wasn't dropped after every series. He has played consecutive series on many occasions. Just look at the facts!

In reply to Larr Pullo

Ganga outperformed Smith when he replaced him.

In reply to Jumpstart

So it's not null and void when Hafeez, a multiple times convicted pelter, gets Smith out and causes him to be dropped?

In reply to Seechy

exactly....two hundreds against the world's best team then. back to back. Did ganga fulfill his potential as a test batsman? No, but to compare him to smith's constant failings, the last as recently as 2018, is totally incorrect. Technically smith has two big issues that prevent him from succeeding against world class opposition. The first has plagued him since his debut in 2003. When the pacer is bowling around the wicket, just outside of the offstump, he never adjusts and comes forward, he simply sticks his bat in a defensive position and gets caught behind. Jason gillespie did that several times to him in that series and it has plagued him since. Secondly, he never gets to the pitch of the ball against spinners, in fact he never gets forward so he's always pinged on the crease by the turning delivery

In reply to Larr Pullo

hafeez doesn't present a physical threat to batsmen. The spirit of the chucking law was to protect batsmen from pace bowlers with illegal actions.

In reply to Jumpstart

Ganga's test record is not much better than Smith's but y'all carry on anyway...

In reply to Jumpstart

Then for the record Brett Lee was a chucker too... care to comment on that?

In reply to Larr Pullo

well he was reported once, nothing ever came of it

In reply to Jumpstart

Played in the same era with Shoaib, and he tagged quite a few batsmen.

In reply to JOJO

Of course he was given a good bloody long run - 43 matches over 15 years! He had a longer test career (in terms of years) than Gayle. This demonstrates the number of opportunities he was given, and the overall stats show how many times he played consecutive matches across consecutive series. This is something other openers did not get, such as Sewnarine Chattergoon, Brenton Parchment, Lendl Simmons, Omar Phillips, Adrian Barath, Assad Fudadin, Leon Johnson, and Rajendra Chandrika.


If you are arguing that he should have played his 43 test matches consecutively to constitute a 'good long run', then you and these other morons are blind mate. He was not a good enough batsman to deserve a long run of consecutive matches, he did not perform consistently and his averages reflect this. The only opening batsman who deserved his good long run in the last 20 years was Christopher Henry Gayle, who averaged over 40 in test cricket. Next best was Brathwaite, then Wavell Hinds (who played a similar number of matches to Smith across 6 years, yet he averaged 10 runs higher). Daren Ganga and Kieron Powell were given similarly long runs but for the poor return of a 26 average and were rightfully dropped.

In reply to Seechy

How many tests did WI play over that 15 year stretch? How do the batsmen you named FC record (that we use as a bellmark for selection) stand up against Smith's?

The question you should be asking yourself is how in this era of crap players, the one player who was consistently raising his hand at the FC level was yo-yoed in and out the team as Smith was?

In reply to Larr Pullo

Since Smith's debut at Bourda in April 2003 to his last test at Sabina in 2018, WI played 141 tests, while Smith played 43. Are you suggesting that Smith should've played the majority of those 141 tests to give him a 'good long run'? He played 30% of those matches and that was more than enough to prove that Devon Shyte is shyte at Test cricket. Good riddance.



Firstly the word is 'benchmark' not 'bellmark'. It is true that none of the batmen I named have a FC record that is superior to your Smith's. But were any of these players given 43 test matches to prove that they can better their FC records? Smith may be the best of a bad bunch in the dungheap, but he was give numerous opportunities and just couldn't cut it at the Test level. Same as Mark Ramprakash, who dominated in County Championship but not in Tests.

And if FC record is used as a benchmark, then why was John Campbell selected? His FC average is less than 30.

Sad to say that, at the moment, WI have no Test quality openers.

In reply to Seechy

Let me give you another example of how Smith has been treated over the years:

2011 World Cup Smith scores

36, 53, 6, 107, 10, 81, Avg = 49

Came back to the WI against Pakistan and was destroyed by the pelter Hafeez who got him out 4 time in four innings all LBW

7, 17, 16, 0.

And he hasn't played an ODI for the WI since...

In reply to Seechy

You tell me...

Lets look at Smith last series to see who would want to pick him.

Smith last series was 5 test in a row in 2018.

He scored a total of 167 runs in 9 Innings with 5 of those innings was below 10 with a whopping average of 18.55.

Now I believe Campbell started around this same time, You want us to drop Campbell for Smith? Campbell played 6 matches and averages 29.80.

In reply to Larr Pullo

I knew you were chatting bullshit as usual. IF you looked at the stats carefully, in addition to Pak in 2011, he actually played the 2013 Champions Trophy, India-SL home tri-series, and Pak home series in 2013 before being dropped for good. That constitutes a run of 9 ODIs following the 2011 World Cup, scoring 85 runs, HS of 30, with 3 ducks, at a grand average of 9.44!

If that doesn't warrant dropping , then what does??

Stop complaining about how he was 'treated', it's getting tiring now. Why not complain about how Sarwan was treated?

In reply to Larr Pullo

why yuh doh tell us that the hundred came against ireland, the 53 vs neterlands.....and yes he did make 36 vs SA.....until Tahir came on.....india just didn't figure out he was so incompetent vs spinners, or else he would have never made 81

In reply to Jumpstart

How did the others do? You realise he scored the most runs for the WI in the WC? That's the kind of silliness he's combating. One standard for him, a different one for all the other players.

BTW Smith was scoring runs against Indian's big team as a Pres XI player since Harbajan and them were around. They didn'tpick him then either, preferring to go with Wavell ahead of him even though he had outscored Wavell in the Pres XI game ahead of the series.

In reply to Larr Pullo

His ODI record is just as poor as his Test's. Don't get me started on T20s where he literally blocked out a maiden over in a warm up match at Arundel.

In reply to Larr Pullo

Devon Smith 43 Matches 1 100 8 50s Average 23.78

Wavell Hinds 45 Matches 5 100s 14 50s Average 33.01

In reply to vsingh

Exactly Vish!

In reply to Larr Pullo

yuh mean the cwc squad that that ugly jackrass gibbo and his handlers/ enablers had destroyed......look who you comparing him with.....kirk edwards, de keeper from leewards, gibbo virtually told sarwan and tiger that he was going to drop them..... larr your standards lower than a razor blade patna

In reply to Jumpstart

Sarwan, Shiv, and Gayle were on that team and he outscored them all. What does that have to do with Gibson?

In reply to Larr Pullo

And we know why.......because ugly man was abusing them and tryna stamp his authority....he know his career was garbage

In reply to Larr Pullo

You still holding on to thread? Hold on, A coming back!

In reply to Larr Pullo

D Smith ODI Average: 24.62 Test: 23.78

R Sarwan ODI Average: 42.67 Test: 40.01

S Chanderpaul ODI Average: 41.60 Test:51.37

C Gayle ODI Average: 37.83 Test: 42.18


Keep in mind Sars last played a test in 2011 and ODI 2013 and Chander last Test 2015 and ODI 2011


The difference with everyone and Devon with the exception of Gayle and Chander was pushed out, Everyone knew when to leave.

In reply to Larr Pullo

You know if you were arguing Nikita Miller did not get a good run I can agree with you but Devon who? come on.

In reply to vsingh

Sars was also pushed out.

In reply to Seechy

And the man moved on, Doing business now while 38 yrs old Devon still trying to make WI

In reply to Seechy

Yet Larr said he has not played an ODI since 2011! (Maybe not an ODI worth remembering.)

I do not wish to say Larr is a disciple of Trump, but at the very least Larr has some explaining to do.

In reply to Headley

Yes, that was a mistake on my part. He was dropped after 2011 for two years and brought back in 2013. Again, this is what Smith's main complaint is. He is picked, if he fails he's immediately dropped then brought back a few years later and has to prove himself or he's dropped again. That is the pressure he is talking about. Other players fail continuously and don't get dropped.