President of the West Indies Players Association (WIPA) Dinanath Ramnarine says team sponsors Digicel made "unjustified demands" of the playes which were not covered by the match/tour contract for the VB one-day series in Australia. Reacting to a strongly worded memo penned by Digicel's Richard Nowell, ramnarsine said the comments contained "unjustified imputations on the character and behaviour of WI players who are all members of WIPA."
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Oh dear dear dear. Maybe its best this is happening now so it will all be sorted before the SAFFIES arrive. They will just laugh at us. Mefinks, Digicel will sack this supposedly excricketer who never transgressed in his disguished career. They have to try to retrieve their reputation and draw a line under this sorry and sad tale.

In reply to crapaud Digicel will give him a promotion and a raise. He potentially saved them 20 million! If you think companies just pay money in sponsorship and dont look at the lifestyle and citizenship of the beneficiaries you really don't know anything about sport. The man wrote the truth. What's an "unjustified demand" anyway?

In reply to larr I think this guy put some things in print that he should have had the nous to realise should have been oral and off the record. he is a liability. God knows who leaked this, but if some of this can't be justified its even worse. This memo is a PR disaster for Digicel.

In reply to larr how pooper marrid ah aussie? so yuh eh tink he did banging and nyaming punani on tour too? :P :P

In reply to crapaud SIGH Crapauid, this is an internal report. You are SUPPOSED to be brutally frank & open in an internal report, and discuss EVERY pertinent issue. Isee nothing unprofessional or reprehensible about this report. Regardless of what you think should be the case, sponsors DO care about the personal lives of the sportsmen they sponsor. That's why Kobe Byyant will now get less endorsement money tthis year than pre indictment. People would prefer NOT to sponsor an alleged rapist. That's business. In the same way, businesses prefer "family friendly' endorsers to athltes who are known hell raisers. Whatever you may think of that, iits a legit business concern.

An unrealistic demand is basically one that was not clearly and explicitly spelled out in the contract. The thinking seems to be that once you are a sponsor, you can get what you want from whom you want. It isn't like that anymore. I was opposed to Red Stripe's dictum that the final's of the limited overs competition HAD to be held in Jamaica as I am opposed to the idea that Digicel's sponsorship means that they "own" the guys. The terms and conditions and expectations should have been spelled out before the tour. I blame the WICB for that. I the WICB had put in writing that DIGICEL could make a behind the scenes video the everyone would have known that form the outset. If Lara, or anyone else, pops down to the lobby in casual/informal attire, i really don't have a problem with that. Remember, these guys are living in a string of hotels, one after the other, this is their "home" for that period and who among us does not dress comfortably while at home? To identify that in a formal memo is petty in the extreme! I say again, the culpable parties here are principally the WICB, DIGICEL and the players ... IN THAT ORDER. Nowell's report sounds like a slighted 14 year of rich parents who feels that the other boys in class must like him because he has all the bucks. Obviously and apparently, it doesn't work that way.

In reply to carib Carib, please spend some time acquainting yourself with how business is REALLY conducted. This clown supposedly played cricket and spent some time touring with the England team. He should know what gets written down and what gets whispered out of ear shot if he is to be in a job like the one he has. STEWWWWWWPS.

digicel is at war with C&W. West indies players, board and fans are getting caught up in it. no different to what happened in the cold war. just a few rhetorical questions. which company has the most to gain from the removal of Lara as captain and the installation of Chanders? which company has the most to gain from added pressure on players to do more sponsorship stuff? what grates me is seeing "west indies cricket fans" agreeing with digicel and ready to hang the whole team based on a corporate report. those is the same people who will march against capitalism and greedy multi-national companies

In reply to relator EXACTLY!!!

In reply to relator Unless you're new to WI cricket, this is the same sort of behavior that Kahnai, Marshalll, Lloyd, Harper and Logie has been complaining about. It has showed up ion the field courtesy of our number 8 ranking. Now because a corporate suit rinse alyuh out, it becomes "massa day done" and the stupid sloganeering black folk indulge when their last leg is kicked out from under them. Get the fact up and do better, and demand better is what I was taught!!!!

In reply to larr

Do you think they will understand that? Better yet, do you think mediocre loving Chrissy would understand that?!!!! The cuddling days are over! Stop blaming other people guys - the time has come!!!!!

In reply to larr There is a distinction to be made between what is proper behaviour of the team (to be dealt with bt the WICB) and what sponsors are directly involved with on tour. I can't believe that people feel that it is right for sponsors to be engaged in monitoring what goes on in players bedrooms and in calling unions terrorist organisations for representing players interests. Everyone is entitled to a private life. Sponsors should be engaged in making sure that contractual obligations have been met according to their agreements and I hope to goodness that who people sleep with is not part of that contract!!

In reply to Daya Well said Daya. Digicel has probably realised the unprofessional approach to business of the WICB and is trying to exploit vagaries in the sponsorship contract by forcing players to forego individual contracts and perform functions that were not included in the original tour contract etc... This way they get more mileage out of players than their $20M originally bought.

Tell all these phuckers larr ......... just cause a white man say something bad doan mek him a facting "massa". Deal with the case and if they man is speaking the truth do not kill him for that -- killing the rasshole messenger will not make the message go away!!!

In reply to crapaud Crapaud, please respond to what I wrote re sponsors preferring to endorse " family friendly" althletes over " hell raisers". The pre indictment Kobe Bryant is a lot more attractive to business as an endorser than the postindictment, adulterous, back door man Kobe Bryant! Businesses do take the private lives of their sponsored sportsmen into account-that's reality! If you were a businessman with $20M of your money at risk, you would too!

In reply to Daya

Daya the man said "unjustified" not unrealistic........ I want to know what he meant by "unjustified" Is he saying Digicel shouldnt ask anything of the players?

In reply to crapaud

So if he had just said it, it would be somehow more acceptable than if he wrote it? I'm sorry, I'm puzzled as to the reasoning here! Suppose he had sent it via an encrypted email, would that change things?? :?: :roll:

In reply to carib

ah guess digicel eh do dey homework :lol:

In reply to carib What is there to comment upon in that assertion? What has that got to do with the fact that they don't legally have carte blanche to pry into people's private lives? What has that got to do with my assertion that in life certain things go on, but that when you put things in writing you have to be careful? What has that got to do with whether we should as west Indian people allow multinational companies to get away with things that they would not get away with in their own countries? Do you think, because we have not seen it in writing, that cricketers sleeping around has not happened before? What do you think was the real motivation for this damning report? Try for a minute to step back and reassess your logic with your slavish support for Digicel and WICB!!!!

Daya and Relator - well said. Some peeps here are going along with anything said by anyone that serves their agenda. Nothing new about that.

In reply to larr Well larr, to be honest, I can imagine Digicel asking players to do something beyond the scope of the contract. However, everything that I have see that Digicel ask for seems within standard sponsorship activity-posing for pre game shoots, interviews, player columns. I guess Wipa needs to spell out what demands were "unjustified" I haven't seen them yet! Still, I have to commend Ramranine for conducting prompt & vigorous defence! The WICB could learn a thing or two from him! He's doing a good job as an advocate for WIPA.

everyone worried about poor digicel and that they must be so disappointed. Digicel knew exactly what they was getting. they knew exactly how the WICB board operates. they knew the shortcomings of the board and players. they also knew West indies cricket is still the biggest thing in the west indies and if they want the lucrative local telecoms market, sponsoring west indies cricket is a good way to do it. this isn't charity. this is business!! no company forks out $20m without knowing exactly what they getting.

SPonsorship is a two street. Digicel invest mony in WI cricket and Digicel expect that WI cricket will help it to make money. It appears right now that Digicel is doing their part by handing over the money to WICB but the WICB seems not to be able to controll the players who they employ. It seems as if the players are seeing wearing the WI colors as a right rather than a privilege. That must not be the case.The WICB needs to stand firm and put in place rules and regulations that governing being a member of the WI cricket team. However, the rules and regulations should not in anyway be so one-sided that that it tramples on the rights of players. For too long the WICB seems to lack the backbone to take any discipline actions against players that they employed all because they may be high profile. Now is the time to take that stand. We are almost at the bottom of the standing and not much more to loose. Set in motion right now policies that will guide WICB cricket in the future. The time has come to bite the bullet and cut our losses so we can move upwards. If they kind of untouchables are allowed to continue then WI cricket will not go anywhere. WIth regards to the Digicel memo, anyone who players any serious sports knows that a good long night rest is essential to a solid performance the next day. To have female company and be up at 1 AM can not help your performance on the feild the next day. There is a reason why teams have curfew. WICB for the good of WI cricket take a stand now and demand respect and professionalism from your employees (players). It is not call slavery but business.

also, it is a bit naive to think that it was an "internal memo that was accidentally leaked". that memo was for public consumption. if internal security in Dgigicel so bad, how come the bids they put in for Telecoms contracts doesn't accidentally get "leaked" as well? companies like digicel don't do things by guess or accident. fellow fans, by all means, keep the pressure on the board and the players to do better. but please, no tears for digicel. they will be just fine.

In reply to relator welcome to de LPA, chrissy will mail you your membership form and other documents :lol: :lol:

In reply to rikiniki please tell me, what is the LPA? :D

In reply to relator Wait fuh yuh mail :lol:

In reply to crapaud well , I did a reassessment,. My thoughts:

He doesnt have carte blanche, as you said. But in fact he was reporting what was in plain view. No privacy violation there!! he saw players taking girls into their rooms at 1AM. he heard sounds through the hotel walls. ANYONE who has been to a hotel has seen & heard similar things. This was a private memo to the company head that SOMEONE ELSE intercepted and sent to the papers. If your private letter is somehow intecepted and published in the paper, have you done anything wrong? Of course not! I'm sure it has, but as I have said , that's a side issue!The main issue is the players noncooperation with sponsors. However, sponsors do have a legitimate interest in the IMAGE of their sponsored sportsmen-and that includes their private conduct (by the way, players conduct in a hotel , where they are SEEN by the public, may actually be PUBLIC conduct). What has Digicel "gotten away" with? If the players had cooperated fully with Digicel, the report would not be "damning". In the ordinary course of business, whenever an employee goes away on company business, de does a report concerning that particular transaction when he returns. Unfortunately, this was not a pleasing report! That happens. I see no grassy knoll or magic bullet here! :)

In reply to carib Keep walking around with your eyes closed my friend. Thankfully there are many others who are not.

In reply to carib so you don't think that this could have been a deliberate leak? what is digcel's real worry, players not playing well, or players not asking how high when digicel says jump? i think the main issue is that this whole question of when are the players "digicel" and when are they "C&W" is yet to be fully worked out and made clear to everyone. i think digicel is attempting to embarass the players in order to weaken their public support in order to get what digicel wants, which is 24 hour rights to the players.

In reply to crapaud Thank you for that fact-and analysis free reply.

Could you tell me if the number of telephone numbers was in view and if so how?

In reply to carib

Really? So your cell phone habits are public info? I can get a list of the phone numbers in your cellphone to?

In reply to Chrissy Chrissy, quiet as its kept, cellphone communications are NOT secure private communications. You might want to consult Wackie on this. Not only that , OTHER cricketers have been causught misusing cellphones http://www.pcworld.com/howto/article/0,aid,114721,00.asp

[url=http://www.telegraphindia.com/1050122/asp/frontpage/story_4284866.asp]click here[/url] If the cricketers were making calls on Digicell networks, it would be very easy for the rep to get the numbers , if not the conversations-as Shane Warne found out! :wink:

Hey Everyone I usually don't post too much here...except to check up on the cricket scores and stuff like that. But, I do read up on what's going on in WI cricket in every news article I find. I have nothing personal against Ramnarine, but based on what I've read and the constant conflict between the Board and the Player's Association, it seems that he is not exactly the best representative for the Players. His approach seems very confrontational which I personally don't think will yield best results for either side. I think the Players Association would be better served by a strong leader who is capable of articulating the desires/demands of the player body in a style that is likely to bring both parties together in resolving any issues. Now, he is taking on the Sponsors as well in a very confrontational manner...I just don't see how this bodes well for WI Cricket, in general. As some of you mentioned, the report that was leaked was in internal document and I personally do not see any problem with the author reporting on events as he viewed them. Regards, WI Cricket Fan

In reply to Zikdaman Of course, I was referring to what he saw & heard at the hotel

That's all plain view. As to cell phone numbers, well a company employee can legally access the company's network, if he wants.You might not like it, but its perfectly legal.

In reply to CricketFanNJ

Pause and take a deep breath, read what you have written here. You ahve nothing against Ramnarine there is constant conflict between the board and the players association and he is not the best representative for the players. The conflict then is caused by Ramnarine alone Two fugging parties in a dispute and you assume one is not the best representative for the players, therefore come out and say he iw wrong that's all. also say based on what you read why he is not right. Man yu people dissapointing to say the least

In reply to raphalst1 I said what I had to say. I also read about the resignation of a member of the Players Association prior to the start of the season based on "the current direction/approach of the players' association"... I have read statements made by Ramnarine and observed his approach in handling disputes from afar...it is NOT a good way to reach equitable resolution...in MY opinion...to which I am entitled. There are different ways of handling these situations, and I believe there are certainly more EFFECTIVE ways than he has chosen...I'm certainly NOT saying that the issues he raises are not valid...I'm merely referring to the MANNER in which they are being raised/handled...

In reply to relator

Hell it could have been beamed into the Guardians computers by Martians! Anything is possible, after all! There is NO evidence at all that it was a deliberate leak.That we know! Anything else , and you are into JFK conspiracy type territory!

I have to agree with larr here. We have such low expectations of our players. We all know that discipline has ben an issue with our players for over a decade, and we need to stop defending poor behavior just because a white man pointed it out. That is so immature. Nevertheless the largest chunk of blame belongs to the WICB for not implementing central contracts. Without them the WICB has nothing to sell to Digicel, the idiots. Now they are being shown up, yet again.

In reply to carib you are right. there is no evidence that it was deliberate leak. but, i have not seen any other sensitive internal memo from digicel "leaked". digicel negotiated the WICB deal in perfect secrecy. they've made numerous bids for telecoms contracts on various islands in perfect secrecy. now, all of a sudden, an internal memo, from an employee, directly to the CEO, leaks out in it's entirety. but you are right, until we have a signed confession, there is no evidence. i hope we all can give George Bush and the US government the same benefit of the doubt.

In reply to Offspin i for one am not defending indiscipline. my point simply is let the coaches coach, let the selectors select, the the board run and let the players play. the sponsor seems to have other agendas, like removing the current captain and installing the man who doesn't have a C&W contract to tie him down. this has nothing to do with white or black or shooting the messenger. it has to do with sponsors manipulating the team and fans to get more than they paid for.

In reply to relatorAmen! You can say it at again brother!

CricketFanNJ is correct in his assessment of the situation in my humble opinion. As a Union you have to be strong but not confrontational. I am speaking from personal experience, as a union member, delegate and executive for over 35 years. You have to be strong but not confrontational if you understand what I mean. If you keep screaming all the time, even when you are right no one listens. Mr. Ramnarine I am sure have good intentions and is trying to get the best for the players, I have no problem with that, but maybe he needs to temper his approach. He must learn to place himself in a win win situation, instead of a lose lose situation by constantly ranting and raving. Power will always overcome Force, Mr. Ramnarine start dealing from a Power perspective, which is always non-confrontational instead of a Force standpoint which is alway confrontational and in a fighting mode. The document was an internal memo, but I an 100% sure it was purposefully make accessable to the newspapers so that they Digical can get mileage out of it. But who cares, the telling questions is did these players break there contractual obligations of not doing ads for the sponsors. The personal part about the women is none of my business, or Digicel's, or anyone else these are grown men!!!

In reply to relator

Don't get your panties in a twist. as it happens, digicel forwarded the report to the WICB Saturday. And they leak like a sieve. 10 to 1 the leak came from the WICB.

In reply to larr

This is hypocritical cause some of the complainants did chasing pum-pum up to the mid 90's when they were with the team in NZ so if Management chasing pum-pum how can you tell the boys not to ? The reason that we are at the bottom of the ladder has nothing to do with pum-pum but more to do with the scientific advancement in the training of cricketers which caught us totally exposed.

In reply to Offspin Do you think that Viv use to knock tings relentlessly whilst on tour ? Do think that Sobers use to knock tings ? Do you think that Mikey did the same ? Are they also guilt of poor conduct ?

As a man who enjoys the fine art of exposing fallacies by asking questions...great factin questions uton.

In reply to carib

Did the players do anything illegal? Now read your statement above over again, rinse and read again for best results.

In reply to CricketFanNJ

Well don't just stop there. Tell us how exactly the players representative could have handled it differently so that the players rights are preserved and demands were met?

CricketFanNJ, what nonsense are you writing about here. Look Roland Holder got a mangement post with the Bim cricket team and like most mimic men who receive promotions, he suddenly turned on 'the lower echelon'.

In reply to Zikdaman

nobody said they did. I was replying to your question with regard to discovering the cell phone numbers. Why don't you try rereading YOUR question. You've obviously confused yourself! :twisted:

In reply to uton

Put things in pesrpective, Utie!!!!! Digicel wants value for their money. Their value comes with the two primary outcomes, 1) WI winning and 2) Digicel is inturn is pecieved to be winner by association. WI is losing and that's bad. It is made worst if the players seem to be distracted and not committed to winning. That's a losing scenario for Digicel and they cannot be happy with that situation. If the WI were winning and the players were cooperating with the "reasonable" demands of Digicel then no one would hear sqaut about their womanizing and whatnot!!! Nowell was just presenting to his boss why he thinks Digicell not getting their value, that's all. It was not for public consumption and you and I were not supposed to know that much detail.

Digicel is paying for visibility for their product. Winning is a bonus, but understand that the price for sponsors goes up with improved ratings. I saw their product throughout the series. As my brethren said on radio earlier, when a promoter agrees to pay Beenie big bucks to perform at a show, it is Beenie's name that brings in the peeps. If the show flops, the promoter still has to pay Beenie whatever was agreed on the contract. We are not losing because players have women in their rooms - we are losing because we have not invested in the base. Digicel clearly did not do their homework - all they wanted to do was to displace C&W. They now look dumb and naive.

In reply to Chrissy

Chrissy, if it was just visibility Digicel would be going about it in a very expensive way!!!!! It's more than visibility, trus mi!!!!!!

In reply to Rastaman look, these folks keep referring back to a time when dinosaurs roamed the earth! Cricket is now a different sport, with different media & different expectations! you may as well talk about what happened in George Headley days! Look, sponsors these days are looking for athletes that can appear on Wheaties boxes! Somebody with the wrong rep is not going to make it unto a Wheaties box! And todays media have NO problem printing chapter & verse bout going s on! And lets not even CONSIDER what happen if these girls want collect money! Can we say Kobe Bryant? Mike Tyson? Suppose these boys end up inn front of an Australian jury?? Man, allyuh need to think about THAT!! :twisted:

In reply to relator:

You are spot on. Good summary of the issues. I certainly do not condone erratic behavior and my parents and teachers and coaches always said that the noght before a big day, should be for rest and speculation to build the mental faculties for the challenges ahead. What bothers me is the assumption that Nowell is telling it straight. No one seems to think he is embellishing. Digicel has clearly indicated an agenda. They want Lara and Sarwan replaced from the get GO. Lara's contract with C&W was never questionable. The questionable ones (through ambush marketing) were Gayle, Sarwan and Bravo. They were after dictation terms to the WICB that makes no sense. They wanted LAra, Sarwan, Gayle and Bravo out of the team. But now are crying that these are the highest profiled players and by not playing their game, they created problems for Digicel. Well if you try to take bread away from them and then try to get them fired, Mr. Nowell, How the heck you expect them to be your buddies? The days when you can buy anything with money is gone. You cannot buy pride and wipe out distrust with money. I agree that the WICB and WIPA did not do their job thoroughly either. They need to sit themselves down and resolve these issues like grown men and stop throwing reports and accusations left, right and center. No sponsor has the right to dictate. They are coming to lend their sponsorship because they can gain maximum exposure from it. Maybe this is all a publicity stunt that seem to have backfired on them.

Is it possible that Mr. Nowell was able to speak so authoritatively about the amount of phone numbers because of the credits and SIM cards that he was able to arrange for the team? I know that this is rank supposition but if that is true, it speaks volumes about the rank deceit and dishonesty of the DIGICEL rep.

these players can even play cricket at prof level and behave like this, the sponser should pull the plug, what a sad case of cricket in the caribbean act like men and not kids

In reply to carib If yuh think dat man who deh pon wheaties box nah knock pum-pum or wuss yet odder man den yuh an Rasta need a reality check, dee rasshole man hupset cause im get diss dat is dee prablem an address dat, if dem bwoys was choir boys dem ass would still get cut.

Just when I think you couldn't get any dumber, you surpass yourself. Sportsmen been screwing groupies since WG Grace's day. You expect our boys to be any different from the fit young athletes everywhere who women want a piece of? Dem a gi de gal dem what dem want! Just like Gary and Mikey and Viv before dem! You ever hear one WI player ever accused of rape? No. So why the fugg would you bring up something like that now? Fugging uncle tom idiot.

In reply to sabina Like Mr. Nowell jealous he couldn't get any women or what ?? He don't know what happen in Aus Stays in Aus!!! :lol:

GEEZ when is Nowell returning to England? He might get a job as Prince Charles sponsorship manager. He doesn't know how to operate with normal people.

Sabina you forget Dave Mohammed .... :twisted:

... and who ever mentioned Mike Tyson really got it wrong ... casue Mike is still the biggest drawing card in heavyweight boxing even today... and some figet 'bout the other Mike gambling problems.

If you pump 20 million dollars into WI cricket and ask for a few interviews then i am not sure how unjustified that is, as compared to asking for half a million dollars just to appear in OZ to fly dow a girl from Adelaide. I am not usre if the caribbean people is making unjustified demands when they expect these players to be good ambassadors who can conduct themselves with decncy and professionalism and be an example to the younger ones. Not diising or treating people with the hostility like when camaera a point etc. Some one can say respectfully, Please don`t put the camera of me and say why, without being so hostlie, especially after you demand half a million dollars to go check some girl dung a Oz. my my. what is diss? Caribbean demand a disciplined and respectful buch who will giev their all for WI , be focussed work on their weakneses etc. especailly with such massive fees , and the team is the worst in our history. Even if Wi prode emans nothing to them, then can at leats perform for the money. Don`t just take it and behave that way man. Cho. Be fair nuh! The players must not look only to C&W interests but also that of WI cricket. Thats not too much to ask.

In reply to sabina

so because its hasn't happened yet, its never going to happen? Guess Kobe Bryant, Shoiab Aktar, and Dave Mohammed thought the same thing! Man, you need to turn your brain back in! Its clear you got a defective model! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

In reply to uton Look, the question is not whether they have a right to fugg! As grown men, they have a right to fugg anything they want, down to small, furry mammals if they feel like it!! The question is, is it a good idea for paid professionals to be fugging loose booty, the night before a mission critical business activity? Because in any case allyuh hadn't noticed it, international cricket aint a game any longer-hasn't been for years! Apparently, everbody else and their fans figured it out, whereas West Indies crickters and their adoring fans still think its a game, like it was in ye olden days! If its a game, well of course, fugging comes first, last, and always! ITS THE CARIBBEAN WAY! FUGG FIRST, THINK LATER, IF IT ALL! Well, allyuh need to wake up and smell 2005-the era of million dollar sponsorships, big endorsenents based on an athletes image, media, and money hungry chicks who will sue anyone they can! Or better, keep living in 1980! You know you want to! :twisted: :twisted: