West Indies captain Brian Lara says his time has one of the better ODI bowling attacks in the world.

Speaking with the media after his team lost to Pakistan in the second One Day International in Faisalabad, Lara laid the blame for defeat the batting and called on his charges to pull together to get it right for the final three games.
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In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com It must be very difficult for Lara to have to explain all these losses.

When he retires he would be an experienced public relations manager.

Well given that WI played 5 "specialist" bowlers
Taylor, Bradshaw, Collymore, Smith, Samuels and one all-rounder Gayle...

It better be one of the better ODI bowling attacks around...

Samuels and Smith should be considered as bowlers given their current dismal batting statistics...

In reply to jk2s I do not understand how Lara can mek this claim, I hope he don't have to eat those words.

I don't buy this

This means Shiv could not play in the ist ODI which was washed out

If Shiv has an injury....which de rass is he still in Pakistan

What is Lara saying.....Shiv will come in after we lose the series...because it seems Shiv is not even sure for the next match

A cappo would want to start the series with his best team

My theory is Lara wanted to open with Simmonds and send Shiv down the order ......and Shiv refused

He has rejected the "yo yo' treatment of the past....dem convinced Shiv to return to open with Crampy....and now it seems dem want to accomodate Simmonds

Looks like it backfired on Lara and Bugger King

And yeah....how come Lara was batting #3 in tests.....but not in an ODI...I would have thunked.....

In reply to Narper Something fishy is going on for sure. No Sarwan and somoen who had a slight knee injury and not playing? And Morton batted at Number 7.

Someone experimenting very poorly with the team.

In reply to anandgb Lara is a PR man but not a good one to make such a claim. We ahve a decent attack but apart from Taylor and Colleymore all others are mediocre at best. Lara captaincy is poor and I dont;t think the players like him hence, he is not getting a 100% support. The team would play better under a Sarwan or Ganga but not Lara and his attitude problems.

Even if Chanderpaul did come an say heself dat he decide to sit out fuh de same reason Lara give, allyuh woulda still find "someting fishy" and spout allyuh conspiracy theories.

Once yuh convinced a conspiracy theory exist...nutting go change dat.

In reply to imusic You see everything in order? Good for you man. How long ago was the third test again?

Shiv played a 5 day test match with a fcuking broken finger man. Put you brains on for a change before you start jumping on others.

Someone experimenting and doing a poor job. Did you see what Lara said? it is precautionery. You take these chances when 2 of your key players already missing? Look ress you ra$$ yeh.

In reply to imusic We also know Shiv na have PR talent and he says it like it is. So yes if he sey he sit out , we would believe him.

He aint putting no spin on things. The freaking team falling apart a few months b4 the WC and you happy with shit ass excuse?

In reply to anandgb
You tellin me bout my eyes close but yu conveniently have yuh eye shut wit yampee to how much match Chanderpaul miss fuh WI through injury and the possibility that what was given as an explanation is accurate given that history.

Nah....

You rather go and involve yuhself in speculative NEGATIVE talk. And de ironic ting...you does want to come on here playin like you is dis neutral WI supporter when in reality...when someting you perceive to be negative happen wit one of yuh homeboys, yuh eh no better dan de same people yuh does be on yuh pulpit preachin to.

In reply to imusic

There is something fishy

A senior batsman is not playing and not a word from Lara after the toss interview

Not a single commentaor could shed any light on the matter

It takes an after match interview to come up with an injury in a test match....a test more than a week ago?

Look get real

The shit go hit the fan soon

In reply to anandgb

How dat skunt go grow a brain so quickly :D

In reply to imusic

Tell us how many matches Shiv missed in the last 4 years due to injury....tell us.....and compare that to other international players

Come on....leh we hear

In reply to imusic

hahahahahahahahhahahahah :D


Pot calling kettle BLACK

Man...look in de mirror

In reply to imusic

Yes, when I see injustice I dioes talk. And if you take off you blinders you would remember that I go to bat for ppeople from all ova. Namely Dwayne and Devon Smith, Lara when he does be criticized by asses, Gayle same thing, Ramdin smae thing, Collymore same thing, and the list goes on. If you wish to think is only my homeboys I does root for, then you really blind.

Did you see the word precaution in Lara's statement? Does that tell you how superficial the injury is?


BTW: Do you think our bowling attack is world class?
I am not a supporter that agrees slavishly and neither are you. So why you getting you drethers up about me saying something fishy going on?

In reply to anandgb

Anandgee....you have time wid these SKUNTS

I gave up on dem long time

Now I doan care who think I am an insular...or racist as some try to imply some times

I lecture...at de post graduate and undergraduate level......and I know you do too.....and I lecture to ALL God's children...ALL colour, race and creed.........In Toronto you will find all

My conscious is clear....I am very very comfortable in my skin.....ALL my students love me....I have made a difference in their lives...and they are from ALL OVER DE WORLD ......and especially those from de lesser fortunate countries

In reply to Narper

You said it bro.

Lara had better stop talking nonsense like this. He has the ability to express two conflicting ideas in one sentence. He had better call a spade a spade.

"Nobody is to blame, it's the first game, the fact of the matter is that we've got eleven guys out there and we didn't pull our weight (in the batting department) and we didn't give the bowlers the necessary runs needed to defend and we have to look at that."

One entity to be blamed is the WICB who saddled the team with a losing coach.

Another is BK who is nothing but a PE coach and has not imparted any cricketing skills to the team because he has none to impart, hence the lack of any meaningful progress.

Third is Gayle. As the senior opener,he's unreliable and can be depended on to fail more often than not in crucial situations.

Lara is also culpable for being a wimp. I commend him on his decision with Sarwan, dropping this current nonperformer. He needed to do that with a few other slackers on this team.

In reply to imusic ... you have time ... the usually suspects at it again ... jus' like with RB you shud ignore their rantings.

In reply to anandgb

Brian's wrong on this one.

The bowlers must defend whatever runs that are on the board. If they not good enough to out the opposition for less than what the opposition bowlers out WI for, then the bowlers are just not good enough, plain and simple.
The Pakistani bowlers were able to do it, so why can't the WI bowlers do better than them? Pakistan does not have a #9 rated bowler, do they?

But, of course, it's BOTH batting and bowling causing the losses.

WI has just 1 specialist batsman averaging >50 in test cricket, 1 averaging >40, and the others languishing in the 30s.

WI has 1 allrounder who performed up to test class against the top 2 teams, #1 OZ and #2 England, in tests, plus 1 emerging specialist pace bowler who is yet to prove his worth gainst the top teams, or even the middle teams.

WI have no other bowler who has demonstrated the ability to out top team batsmen on a regular basis, or even at all. Batsmen go no for 100, 200 run stands with those so-called fast "bowlers" powerless to do anything about it, and the WI skipper having to rely on unorthodox tactics, like bowling Sarwan, Ganga, Chanderpaul to take wickets. And when the spinner outperforms the shit hounds in 2 consecutive tests, he's dropped, even though he also outpeformed some top batsmen too.

The story is much the same in ODIs.

WI cannot win, or even expect to win, tests and/or ODIs, in the circumstances.

It's not as bad in ODIs as it is in tests. WI does well in mass competition where the top teams do not focus, but when it's head to head against those same teams, WI loses.

The absence of a specialist batsman and the allrounder has weakened the team tremendously and they cannot be expected to win in the circumstances.

In reply to seetarg

"Lara captaincy is poor and I dont;t think the players like him hence, he is not getting a 100% support. The team would play better under a Sarwan or Ganga..."

If this is true then it confirms that WI players are not just mediocre at best but most unprofessional. OK they do not like Lara, does that mean they will get 100% support when leadership changes. I do not think so and then what will they do when they do not get this support. A bad attitude and a poor attitude towards being a quality play will never change under different leadership. Look at Flintoff, Poor under Nasser Hussain, Florished under Vaughn, now back to being mediocre at best. So lets call a spade a spade, if our players are unprofessional then say that rather than guise it under lara's leadership.

In reply to Narper
Shiv does not have an injury that should prevent him from playing
Bravo goes home for personal reasons
Sarwan was dropped from test team
morton bats at number 7
Bruce resigns as strength coordinator
lara talks crap
it all adds up---THERE IS TROUBLE IN THE WEST INDIES CAMP
part of the problem --Brian Lara--- a big part

more on this.................

In reply to seetarg
I don't have the heart to respond - we only losing man - When (if) they win one - You sure they will play better under Sarwan or Ganga? Like, if you don't mind me asking, how exactly would that happen - motivation will make Gayle move his feet? Would Smith and Bravo now make 50s and 100s and Sarwan 200s like the bearded one - Can't wait for Lara to retire then - But if you're wrong, dead wrong, then when he retires - Don't want to think about it and don't care - Forget Lara - everybody stands before the judgement seat of God-so the players must accept responsibility - Powell reminds me of the days of Vanburn Holder, yeech

In reply to redbaron

Truer words have not been said. This is spot on. I am wondering if Lara is using psychology here on teh bowlers to keep improving an dteh batsmen to freaking be shamed into stepping up.

In reply to anandgb

You know what was really funny to me Anand? Just after England had declared their first innings at 560+ for 6, i heard John Buchanan congratulating his bowlers for bowling 'really well'. In the second innings they obliged.

To say that our attack is world class might have been overstated, but in the last year or so we have been restricting teams to manageable totals in ODIs.

What we really do have for sure is inconsistent bowling (and batting).

If you are fed up whipping them as incompetent, you may very well start trying something else :D

In reply to ganga_fan
I don't think this attack is world class, unless the world is Bermuda only. Taylor seems to have eveything, as did Fidel; but those wicket taking balls are still not there yet. Indeed, that ws the problem in the bad old days of the Dowes, Holders, and even the Boyces - They promised so much and delivered so very little, simply because they did not have wicket taking balls.

In post 70s, the first bowler to really master a variety of wicket taking balls was Andy Roberts, with a variety of bouncers (used to hurt in the Anglish League), slower ball (Marshall may have borrowed this), and sharp yorker (like Waqar and Gul) -

I can't see why Andy is not hired by the WIBC to help these young ones; instead he is allowed to play the fool with Sanford and supervise the rolling of pitches - Yet Waqar is right there with his team, even with the foreign coach. Lara is very wrong on this and should repent. The Board should don sackcloth and ashes :(

I actually agree with Lara on this.

The West Indies first choice ODI seam bowling attack for ODI's reads- Taylor, Collymore, Bravo, Bradshaw. Four different bowlers with varying styles complementing each other effectively. The pace of Taylor, the accuracy and outswing of Collymore, the variety of Bravo and the left arm inswing of Bradshaw.

Compare this to other ODI attacks; look at England, who are an embarassment. How good are South Africa beyond Pollock and Ntini? Look at how badly India's attack performed in South Africa? Realistically, there aren't a lot of really good ODI attacks out there.

The reason the West Indies lost the first ODI was because the batsmen failed first, and Inzaman played an excellent innings to guide Pakistan to victory.

"The whole is more than the sum of the parts."

In reply to BigRab

Well said, you have to commend the WI bowling in the recent past. Bradshaw has been magnificent.. best of the lot, Taylor has stepped up his game to become a world class strike bowler, Gayle is really good at holding one end down. Plus samuels and smith have also shown some real potential for tying batsmen down. Bravo's a very good finisher! And they have been doing the job for the team consistently since the indian series.

On the other hand the batting line up has failed more often than not to produce a commanding total.

In reply to BigRab

Nice to see some one talking sense....when will these peeps realise ODI and Test are COMPLETELY different.

In Tests BOWLERS have to get WKTS for you to win, regardless of how well the BATTERS do.

In ODI Bowlers has to be `economical...wkts would be a `bonus`.

What Lara is saying is true ... our bowlers may not take wkts... but they are more economical than a lot of the others ....as you mention above.

In reply to Cleg
So when we go get bowlers to out people in test, NAH man - Ah not criticizing but they make the bearded one treat them like how Gavaskar treat Dowe. Who could do even Holding that? Remember what he do to Edrich?

FIRST INNINGS
Bowling O M R W Econ
AME Roberts 12 4 22 3 1.83
MA Holding 14.5 7 17 5 1.14
WW Daniel 6 2 13 2 2.16

SECOND INNINGS
AME Roberts 20.5 8 37 6 1.77
MA Holding 23 15 24 2 1.04
WW Daniel 17 8 39 2 2.29
AL Padmore 3 2 1 0 0.33

England v West Indies, 1976
The final 80 minutes of the third day of the Old Trafford Test would have appealed to lovers of gore as England's openers, John Edrich and Brian Close, aged 41 and 46 respectively, were subjected to a barrage of bouncers with little intervention by the umpires. The Times estimated that only 10 of the 73 balls would have come close to the stumps, and Close was struck several painful blows (helmets and associated protection did not start appearing until the following year). Hard man that he was, however, he never flinched. "It was like being a coconut in a coconut shy," he later admitted. "Our boys got a bit carried away," was West Indies captain Clive Lloyd's assessment. Close and Edrich survived to the close, but upon reaching the dressing-room both threw down their bats and said they felt like giving up the game. As it happened, both were dropped immediately afterwards, but their courage was never in doubt.

:wink: :wink:

Anybody got the video of Old Trafford 1976?

Appartently Bob Woolmer is pictured on the balcony, as white as a sheet.

Frank Hayes was probably puking in the toilet.

In reply to BigRab
At least the 5th test is available - Mikey and Viv's big time
See http://www.sporting-gifts.com/product.asp?p=29763&s=3&d=0
England v West Indies 1976 5th Test DVD (NTSC) :-o

In reply to Narper
Why Shiv was dropped is apparently for experimental reasons. Is it for the WICB to ensure Guyana will no longer be considered for being part od West Indies team and may soon have to find their own World team to enter ICC games just as how Zimbabwe Etc. began.
If Lara and Bennett King experimented, both should be considered for relief of captaincy and coach before World Cup 2007 with King Lara being the specialist #3 batsman.
If Shiv is in the team, he must OPEN with Chris to get the team back on track. Do it now Lara & King.

I keep telling y'all that there are serious changing room ''issues'' on this tour

All will be revealed in time

In reply to radar
Look, if we can't find a way to get along, then we might as well become independent teams - Guyana and Trinidad & Tobago at this time may even do well - They can certainly beat Bermuda
It is technically correct to experiment now since this team is in the group -Shiv is a great ODI opening batsman, but he is going to play this team in 3 months time- so a change might be a strategy. At the same time, I agree that Sarwan must continue to be the captain in waiting and no one else.

Second thoughts on the subject?

I will wager even RedB will disagree with you here.

If this was an attempt at 'reverse psychology' - well lets just say, it didn't go too well. It took just one game to show you up.

Our bowlers HAVE NOT performed in MORE than five years in a non bowling friendly pitch!!

And if they(the bowlers) do well(rarely) - the opponent bowler would do better!!

And we will still lose - so lets go back to the beginning...



Think AGAIN.

De best I can say about our ODI bowling attack is that it's better than our Test match bowling attack.

It's amazing that we have done so well this year with these bowlers, with the match the other night being the exception rather than the rule.

In reply to Kurt

>>>>De best I can say about our ODI bowling attack is that it's better than our Test match bowling attack.<<<<

That is true but still not saying a lot.

On any given day - out part timers - Gayle , Smith, Samuels do as well as the regulars.

As you well know the "shorter" the game - the greater the chance of an inconsistent team winning.

IMHO - our best three ODI players are gayle, Sarwan and Shiv (Lara is Lara and nothing else needs to be said).

Missing two of the three and playing away from home - at the end of a long tour really stacks the odd against us.

Still like a fanactic/lunatic - I hope we win the next two.

I think he meant a class apart from the rest of the world :lol: