Twenty years ago, when Junior Murray made his first class debut for the Windward Islands, he was a promising wicket-keeper. His selection to the West Indies team for the Australian tour of 1992/3 was a tangible sign of that promise bearing fruit.

He made his debut in the third Test in Sydney and did not particularly distinguish himself. In the fourth Test played in Adelaide, which the West Indies won by one run, he made 49 not out in the first innings and took the catch that clinched the victory.
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In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

Excellent article, Kami.

Balanced, clear and well written.

I do not subscribe to the view that older players should make way for the younger ones. If a player is capable -- he should play--- whether it is for Windies or the regional teams.

Therefore, the younger players--all of them--should earn their spots on the team. We have been making way for younger players for the past 25 years and have nothing to show for it. If Murray is the best keeper in the Windwards, then Murray keeps for the Windwards, irrespective of his age. Let the younger ones force him out. Let them show their worth.

We need a mentoring system for up and coming players and a program of benefit years to ease the ageing players into retirement with some money.

P.S Windies still need a keeper. It might be premature to retire Murray

Kami on de ball

Point and VOR can learn a thing or two here

Call it....doan hide it....beacsue it is in dottie land

In reply to JOJO

Cosign.....

I am another one who disagrees with the trend of pushing youth for the sake of youth itself. When a youngster rises to at least equal the level of the incumbent then he can have the spot, not before.

Otherwise all we do is weaken the overall standard of our domestic competition which has an adverse effect on the youngsters who are good enough to play. The best way for a youngster to learn his profession is to play against the best that we've got. Otherwise he can just stay at the U-19 level.

thats the problem with WI cricket , hanging on to old players too long.


lara will have to retire soon. There is little he could do to help the current bunch. If I was him, I would retire and leave their sorry asses to fend for themselves, its about time they did.


Players like Gayle , sarwan etc are fugging disgraces , after 7 years of cricket at the highest level they still cant get it right. What does that tell you?

Youth players should not be Entitled to be selected to the senior team. They must Earn their posoition with similar or superior performances than older and more experience players. Many youth players have been selected based on potential only to have flopped.

In reply to terminator

It tells me that we may not be attracting the best possible talent to the game. We may be asking more of Gayle and Sarwan than what they can give. If more people actually played cricket in the caribbean, we'd probably have better choices.

In reply to Narper

Point and VOR have a different style to me but it's all good still. There is plenty room for diversity so they do their thing their way

In reply to Zikdaman

I couldn't agree more. In all fairness to Gayle, Sarwan, Samuels, etc. these guys were brought into a side that was on a downward spiral. The pressure was placed on them to reverse the Windies declining fortunes and they were just too inexperienced to do that.

Let's face it. The depth of talent that has been the foundation of West Indies cricket culture throughout the years is no more. Gayle ,with his lack of foot movement, Sarwan, with his tendancy to throw away his wicket, and the gifted but underachieving Marlon Samuels, would have never made the senior side back in the 60's,70's or 80's. The regional First Class cricket back in those days was considerably better than it is now where quality players had to fight just to make their national sides. If you were going to replace a senior member, you had to do it convincingly, like by knockout, not a split decision.

If Murray is the best keeper/batsman in the Winwards, let him play until someone, by virtue of consistently better performances, forces his replacement.

Incidentally, Junior Murray plays here in the US for Kensington CC, the local powerhouse in the Washington Cricket league. When I last saw him playing, he was in the slips!!

In reply to kami Very good article Kami , the last time I heard Gunny Hinds , Crick called in on the program and strenuously denied that a deal was made to give Murray his fairwell tour , Murray was subquently selected .

The abscence of Devon Smith & Darren Sammy should have cleared the way for Murray to be selected as a batsman and Lyndon James selected as the wicketkeeper . Unfortunately not being in the Region I dont know what is happening . I would therefore like you to enlighten all of us about the present situation .

Lyndon James is a very good keeper and may be even better than Baugh and Ramdin . He is also no rabbit at the crease .

It would indeed be interesting to see what is thought of him in the Region .

Regards ... . POINT .

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com Kami,

Well put and I do agree with you....why must a young man who has a possibility of being selected for the senior team be denied that opportunity for an older player who is at the end of his career and has almost a 0% chance of being selected?

Should the young guns be punished b/c there is a paucity of opportunities for all players old and young to participate, for the older player to retire gracefully? The main objective of very short Carib Beer 4-Day and KFC limited overs seasons is for the farming of players for the senior team.

I mean Junior could have been selected as a batman/wicketkeeper mentor/fitness motivator for the Windwards team. That would have been a win-win solution for all concerned. Well the regional authorities had better come up with creative ways to maximize very limited resources.

In reply to Narper

This is just to inform you that I am not in the Region , therefore I would not comment on things that I dont know .

I would have commented if I was in the Region . The gross incompetence of the Pirates is often displayed on this MB , and this allows me to voice my opinion on the WICB .

Sayyyyyyyyyy What?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com
to be honest, I really thought that Murray was selected as a bat only and not a Keeper

In reply to JOJO

Didn't Cadette make way for Murray? i get what you are saying but Windwards cricket is such that most if not all the curren tplayers make it on promise. Most times Windwards competition is messed up by rain.So really there aren't many chances to stake any claim. I don't know that Fletcher ,who is playing as a batsman is any worse than Murray the keeper.

In reply to terminator Why dem doan play u den? :roll:

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

I'm still curious if the Winward Islands can't come up with a better wicketkeeper who is younger? I'm a big fan of Murry but he's in his forties and surely that's a bad sign if there is no young talent to replace in the Winward squad.

In reply to unitsypher

Not quite. Tomorrow, he turns 39

In reply to kami

Thanks for the correction. Still too old to be playing however, there has to be someone younger capable of doing the job.

In reply to kami

Very good article;

The Windwards is de only region without a world class cricket on its resume.
Yet Pointless phew his venon on us.

Its a shame when a guy like Junior Murray can still be considered to be de best, while the rest of the caribbean are making changes to their cricket.

It really is a waste of time to select some older players who have been around a long time, and we know they can't make the Windies team. When they initially came up, I'm sure they did not immeadiately make an impact. It takes a season or two to start making any kind of impact. A young guy who has potential would need some experience at the national level...the older guys keep them out with all that experience...they are used to the regional bowlers etc etc...

This is one of the reasons Nagas needs to go....

In reply to POINT

So he better than Baugh & Ramdin ...

but he can't catch up to Murray yet?

In reply to Dekkah

Dekkah,

Poit says he think Wavell Hinds is afraid of the

Windward Islands batting line up ...........

So why did Wavell win the toss & send them in to bat

in the next game?

In reply to Yadi

Yadi....yuh really need to remember to tek yuh meds.

In reply to kami

Nice work Kami 8)

Kami....Junior is mih bredrin..but I feel he should really reitre gracefully ...he should not let a poor team like Windwards kick him out. Apart from that...I already tell he...that his role has changed or should change...he should be taking pride in helping some young fella develop.

That's what should be motivating him now..instead of trying to beat up on shitty bowling. In all fairness...he has been instrumental in getting Devon to go gym and to really work on his fitness. Andre Fletcher is NOT a very good keeper..but who knows..maybe he will improve if given chances. I've never seen James. I really believe Junior should be playing as a batsman ...and he can turn over his hand with some gentle lollipops when he ready too.

JoJo, Crapaud etc..excellent views. What is the criteria for selection on a cricket team? Is there a particular age for retirement?

India paid the price for dropping Ganguly, Laxman and Kumble and bringing youth into the side when they failed to rise to the occasion when given. Sri Lanka also learnt their lesson well with Jayasuria.

I think it is copy cat or culture shockism that we tend to pattern the more developed countries; when we should be focussing on what is best for us and works best for us.

Australia has the luxury of talented players who have been groomed in academies and waiting in the wings, who can perfectly replace those who have served their country well.

Eg..Brad Haddin (28) has been waiting for Gilchrist to bow out for a while, Stuart Mac Gill(35) for Warne, Phil Jacques (27) to come in for Langer, etc..

Now do we in the West Indies have these luxury as Australia? We don't!

Haynes, Greenidge, Ambrose, Walsh and Dujon could have played until mid 40s and remain unchallenged because we are yet to see a TRULY replacement for them after their departure. (Lara is no exception)

These young stars are not showing that they are hungry to play with consistency.

Someone might say that they Rather Be An Old Man Lover Than A Young Boy Slave...in their quest for supremacy and a protection of their legacy! After all cricket is a COMPETITION!

Murray is the best keeper/batsman we have, so let him play until someone, by virtue of consistently better performances, forces his replacement...because age is just nemerical.

In reply to thomasthomas

Well Murray can play till he fifty?

In fairness to the Winward selectors the team has more than enough youths...if a youth has to be voted onto the team he is probably not worthy of a place.

Allyuh, leff dem dotish chupidee Fart Wards people if they think that playing a 39 year old failure is how to develop their cricket and contribute meaningfully to WI cricket as one of the entities comprising WI cricket.

Is that kind of rank stupidity that prevails not only in Fart Wards, but in Shamaica, BadBadose and the Leaky Wads, and even Guyana, to some extent. It's noteworthy that consistent with their foolish policy, they are unable to supply the WI team with quality players, and that is getting more and more so with time.

The longer they cling to that misguided...nay, jackasswise policy, the less quality test/ODI class players they produce, and they perhaps wonder why.

Leff them...we in T&T have a youth policy....we'll fill the yawning gaps created by those extremely stupid people.

My advice to youths in those areas - migrate to T&T, where you'll be respected and given opportunity...not denied to play old selfish failures who care for no one and nothing but themselves.

Lara & Dillon are no SpringChickens?

In reply to Yadi


exactly!who on JA team as old as them?

Murray is a fit man for his age

In reply to bugz

Let the youth displace him!

Like Cheeks, me brethrena and neighbore, but I agree with the artile fully.

There is no doubt that Junior still have some cricket in him, but the Windwards selectors are making a mistake still playing him when younger keepers cold have been on show. In fact that was the cse for the last 5 years.

BTW very good article Kami, I like your balance and it makes good reading. :lol:

In reply to Yadi

Lara does not play for T&T. He knows that doing so would only block a talented youth.

Dillon is 1 player...the only 1 in the T&T team that is over 30. The next oldest is Ganga (D) who is 27.

Look at our lineup....Simmons/Perkins, Bharath, Daren Bravo, Rampaul, Ramdin, Dwayne Bravo, Amit Jaggernauth, Sanjiv Gooljar, Gibran Mohammed, Jason Mohammed, Keiron Pollard, Thoedore Modeste....all youthmen.

...you get the picture, don't you?

You yardies would do well to emulate us so you could stand a chance of supplying at least 1 quality player to WI, something you have not done for ages.

Agree with JOJO and Larr.
Let the old ion continue to reign untril the young ions prove themselves worthy.

BTW, Junior can still play as a batsman and field first slip if there is a hot wicketkeeper prospect on line. Nothing wrong with that.
I have said that in the rational world, the WWI selectors would shore up their batting by hiring hot batting prospects from other islands. They could sign G. Singh and L. Johnson from Guyana and D.Hyatt from Jamaica to contracts and develop them into Test players, just the way English counties sign & develop players from outside their counties. Given the proper incentives ( a bonus ffor contributing a player to the senior team), it would make sense for them to sign and play the best young talent, irrespective of territory.

they aren't the only team that suffers from playing inferior local talent. Both LI and Guyana could help themselves greatly by signing talented young bowlers from elsewhere-including from the WWI-instead of continuing with their peewat bowling attacks.

In reply to camos the young player who will replace murray should gain his place first work for it

In reply to carib All yuh relax Wid dis Junior Murray trash. He old and washed up. As i remember de last time de selectors listened to yall and called he back, he shame WI and de Grenadians wid dat shameful run out. And imagine he excuse was dat he hear somebody callin' he in de stands :lol:

In reply to bugz

and Winward and WI cricket will be better for that!

In reply to bugz There comes a time when the line must be drawn between giving an "old" player a chance and giving a young player a "break"

In reply to camos which youth would do a beter job than murray presently in the team.

In reply to camos which youth would do a beter job than murray presently in the team.

In reply to redbaron

Barbados & The Windward Islands are

the only WI teams who could sell players as "Antiques".

In reply to jala
You see what happening to Guyana presently because they trying youths and they drop McGarell

In reply to jala


these youths want everything without workig for it! its part of that Western Union/ barrel phenomenon.

In reply to Yadi Evidently you failed English in school . I said maybe , which is a qualification . No where in my thread did I stated that he was outright better than Baugh and Ramdin .

I further went on to say that people in the Region would be the judge of whether Lyndon James is better than Baugh and Ramdin . I have absolutely no problem with that .

For example Kenroy Peters has always been a good medium pace bowler , unfortunately he was in the shadows of Nixon Mc Clean , Cameron Cuffy & Fernix Thomas .

Kenroy Peters emerged from the shadows with the absence of Mc Clean , Cuffy and Thomas on the Wimdward Islands Team .

The fact that Junior Murray was selected , doesnt mean that James is a bad wicketkeeper , in fact he has already played for the Windward Islands Team .

In reply to POINT

Mih sorry boss ... :oops: :oops: :cry:

In reply to POINT
Evidently you failed English in school . I said maybe , which is a qualification . No where in my thread did I stated that he was outright better than Baugh and Ramdin .

U ain't know english :lol:

In reply to thomasthomas
Lara is no exception? What a fool thou art. :roll:

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com
Well written..why didn't you choose to point out Junior Murray's ODI numbers?
As an opener, he made an impact in ODIs..

It seems like you don't know English too. When I said Lara is no exception...I mean that he too like Haynes, Greenidge, Walsh, Ambrose and Dujon, can play until 40....because there is no one who can replace Brian. It's a fact!!!

Very interesting observation Surya! He did well as an opener!

To Yadi and RedBaron Name the over 30's in the Bim Squad

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Floyd Riefer.

But that is after years of Campbell & Philo Wallace & Roland Holder.

In reply to Yadi Ah wonduh why RB cant ansa? We talking bout current not ancient History

In reply to jala

Yes a little bit better than yadi

In reply to POINT

Lawd ............ mih never mean fih them drop Junior.

Yadi Loved Junior Murray & thank him for

all the years of service to Cricket in the West

Indies. I sincerely hope that his skills & experience

will be utilised in an administrative capacity.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

So

whats the big deal bout murray? :roll:

In reply to Surya

Yeah, he did make an impact in ODIS. I remember a tour in England (I think) where he was Man of the Odi series. I guess I should have mentioned but I was more focusing on the test aspect.

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

Very good article Kami. While I don't subscribe to throwing out old players for new ones, if thre are other promising keepers who deserve to play based on merit, then Junior should step.

In reply to rikiniki You sure right...because Ramnarine, Jacobs, Haynes, Greenidge and a few got the similar treatment.

Maybe their curse that have us where we are today.

In reply to Chrissy

Murray ... is rocking in the bossom of Abraham.

In reply to kami

Kami?!?!?1

Come leh me and you gaffe.....

don't hide now....

In reply to jala

Conondrum or not ... Junior is half the

Windwards batting.

In reply to Larr Pullo

Why would I hide?