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Fast-bowling legend: minnows devalue World Cup

 
vulcan 2007-02-20 08:30:12 

HAMILTON, Bermuda (CMC)

Legendary West Indies fast bowler Michael Holding delivered a bouncer here last weekend by saying that expanding the number of non-Test playing nations in the World Cup was a flawed idea that ultimately devalued the competition.

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vulcan 2007-02-20 08:31:19 

I wonder if they will ever invite him back to speak. After all, Bermuda are minnows, too.

 
vulcan 2007-02-20 08:33:43 

I've argued about this with the ICC for some time. I simply do not believe that if you come fourth in the ICC Trophy [as Bermuda did] that you should be entitled to play in the World Cup.



Persona non grata, to you Mr Holding... you chat too much.

 
grumpy 2007-02-20 08:51:32 

In reply to vulcan
tell mr. holding to shut up and be quiet on this issue...he simply does not understand that this is about marketing and money for the game. so, tell him to chill...the real competition starts with the super eights...just hope that wi can make it there......... big grin

 
Chrissy 2007-02-20 08:53:35 

I need to know if this is the same Mikey who supported a foreign coach for West Indies (despite our decades of domminance) because a foreign coach had taken the Yardies to the footie worldcup?

 
Dukes 2007-02-20 09:11:54 

Why is it that people who have excelled in 1 area of endeavor feel that it entitles them to pontificate on other areas even though they know FCUK ALL about that area.

 
natty_forever 2007-02-20 09:14:15 

The question I waan ask Mr. Holding is, did the Reggae Boyz devalue the 1998 Footie WC? Did TnT devalue the 2006 Footie WC. I have to disagree with this, actually I have to say this is crap.

 
bajanboy 2007-02-20 09:57:07 

Was I dreaming or did a Minnow make the semis in the last world cup? :roll:

 
natty_forever 2007-02-20 10:07:01 

... and a minnow now hosting this one. :twisted:

 
Amnesiac 2007-02-20 10:08:54 

In reply to natty_forever

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

b nice!

 
WIfan 2007-02-20 10:11:42 

Holding is absolutely right.
People who deny this are letting regionalism get into their heads.

 
carib 2007-02-20 10:16:00 

THeres more to the WC than level of competition. Theres access to markets, viewership, and sponsorship too. No Bermuda team, no Bermuda TV market. The WC is in the end a BUSINESS venture.
Let Holding stick to sports commentary. Go with what you know, Mike.

 
natty_forever 2007-02-20 10:16:53 

In reply to WIfan HUH?

 
crapaud 2007-02-20 10:19:50 

Even though he may have a point, everyone else has had the chance to make money from the endless games so now is our chance. they can change the format afterwards...

 
birdseye 2007-02-20 10:37:15 

In reply to Dukes I once read a likkle saying that says “it’s only a dead fish that always swim with the current”, Mr.Holding don’t seem to have a problem swimming against the current.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

 
Willie 2007-02-20 10:39:04 

In reply to Chrissy

What real progress, advancement or development would the so-called minnows make if, as Mr. Holding argues, "all the non-Test playing nations should continue to play among themselves"?

He continues, "I see nothing wrong with giving the smaller teams the odd tour and a few games against bigger teams from time to time."

'Smaller', 'bigger'? Who is small and who is big among the nations playing test or first class cricket. Small or big by what measure - population size, number of teams or cricketers.

Go back to the original associate members and look at the progress of a team like Sri Lanka. Didn't Canada throw a scare into the mighty West Indies in a WC game?

It is fine to sit on your self-made pedestal and talk down to others. He is entitled to his opiunion, however poorly thought out, but I find it thoroughly insulting that Holding would be a guest of Bermuda and spout such arrant nonsense in his speech.

 
birdseye 2007-02-20 10:44:08 

In reply to Willie

Holding would be a guest of Bermuda and spout such arrant nonsense in his speech.


When I was likkle the adults use to say – the truth maybe an offence but its not a sin, - now a si what them meant.
:oops: :oops: :oops:

 
WIfan 2007-02-20 10:57:04 

In reply to Willie


'Smaller', 'bigger'? Who is small and who is big among the nations playing test or first class cricket. Small or big by what measure - population size, number of teams or cricketers.


Quality. Smaller quality, bigger quality. I know, poorly worded but that's what he means probably.
I can see his point : If World Cup football had two-three matches where its Brazil vs Nepal, where Brazil wins 30-0, it'd rass devalue the whole competition.
World cup is not about promoting the sport, its about showcasing the best of the best at the highest level. Typically the most successful world cups have been about that.

 
Dukes 2007-02-20 11:08:59 

In reply to birdseye I also read that when two people agree all the time,only 1 is doing any thinking.Please post your disagreements with Holding???

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 
number09 2007-02-20 11:15:21 

In reply to Dukes
Nice one dukie.
Or fools seldom differ.
But hey I am not calling Birdseye nor holding a fool.

 
natty_forever 2007-02-20 11:39:32 

In reply to WIfan ... and Yaad and TnT have been the best of the best? That's why you have preliminary rounds to allow the minnows to rub shoulders with the best, thus helping to advance the game. A little too simple minded if you sk me.

 
terminator 2007-02-20 11:44:19 

In reply to vulcan


west indies are minnows, mikey finally gets it right

 
Kurt 2007-02-20 11:49:38 

I also read that when two people agree all the time, only 1 is doing any thinking


Yuh mean like Clarence Thomas and Scalia.

 
Cleg 2007-02-20 11:53:54 

In reply to natty_forever

and a minnow now hosting this one


STFU Why Dont You!!!!!!

 
vulcan 2007-02-20 11:56:26 

Holding is not known for his deplomacy, eh. You are my guest and you come tell me off... is this being frank or has Mr. Holding crossed the thin line to being rude?

Oh, by the way, I remember when the used to call Sri Lanka, minnows. They only won the thing once.

 
birdseye 2007-02-20 12:02:56 

In reply to number09 Was there also something about “great minds” and how the think? What did they say about that again? :lol: :lol: :lol:

 
birdseye 2007-02-20 12:08:07 

In reply to Dukes

I also read that when two people agree all the time,only one is doing any thinking.Please post your disagreements with Holding???


As they say Dukesi “Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.” - That’s wha Mikey saying and I concur not differ
:lol: :lol: :lol:

 
Dukes 2007-02-20 13:12:08 

In reply to birdseye
The fact that you imply that you have never disagreed with Holding merely confirms that saying.I can assure that I have agreed with Mr.Holding on numerous occasions but vehemently disagreed with him on others.I would even venture to say that Mr.Holding in his quiet moments has privately acknowledged some of the wrong things he has said.You on the other hand feel that everything he has said is correct,a position that not even he has.

Oh well...............

 
natty_forever 2007-02-20 13:18:05 

In reply to birdseye ... being disrespectfull also hurts ... the man them know them is minnows, that truth they can live with ... Holding's opinion that they shudn't be in the WC is what is disrespectfull.

 
redbaron 2007-02-20 13:49:32 

In reply to vulcan

I say that minnows Shamaica should be thrown out of KFC Cup competition for at least 2 years and made to play qualifying against Falkland islands or somebody before being let back in.

 
birdseye 2007-02-20 13:53:07 

In reply to Dukes Your extrapolation defies credulity my man, how you conclude or infer from my post that I never disagree with Mr. Holding is beyond me.

Female usually take that all or nothing tact.:roll: :roll: :roll:

It is interesting that WI who were ICC champions were forced to qualify to defend their title while the WC which I consider superior in prestige lets in just about any who follow ICC protocols in lieu of displaying cricket proficiency.

Maybe the timing and venue of Holding’s comments were not the most fitting, but his points seem reasonable to me.

 
redbaron 2007-02-20 13:56:37 

In reply to birdseye

Didn't it also seem reasonable to you that Shamwell knew a bookie for 6+ years and had been in constant contact with him for that length of time, including the recently taped conversations concerning WI/India ODI games?

When it comes to the actions of Shamaicans, your understanding of "reasonable" is very expansive and extremely liberal, to say the least.

:roll:

 
birdseye 2007-02-20 13:57:02 

In reply to redbaron I would have no problem with that, a lot of money could have been saved by not ferrying these shamakans around when they cant even win at home.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 
birdseye 2007-02-20 14:03:15 

In reply to redbaron

Didn't it also seem reasonable to you that Shamwell knew a bookie for 6+ years and had been in constant contact with him for that length of time, including the recently taped conversations concerning WI/India ODI games?


I also consider the mafia to be quite sophisticated yet from time to time the FBI have infiltrated them without them knowing, Samuels has nowhere the expertise or the sophistication of the mafia.
:oops: :oops: :oops:

 
vulcan 2007-02-20 15:34:55 

A House Divided:

My Bermudan wife said that Holding has a point, while I think Holding should shut up.

Well having a point and cuusing me off while a guset in my house are two different things.



 
recman 2007-02-20 15:43:41 

In reply to vulcan

What Holding said wasn't nice but there was a great element of truth to it, everyone knows Holding is outspoken and a man who cannot be bought nor sold - I as a Bermudian quite frankly appreciate his candor on this matter! -

regards

Recman

 
anandgb 2007-02-20 15:52:30 

In reply to Dukes

Why is it that people who have excelled in 1 area of endeavor feel that it entitles them to pontificate on other areas even though they know FCUK ALL about that area.


Ouch!!!!!!

You do know that sometimes people expect these guys to have an opinion right? Is that such a bad thing? I did not see Holding say he is an expert witness at all.

I disagree with his statement, but I respect his right to have an opinion.

Just imagine what life would be if we all agreed. Expert or not.

"It does not make sense to me. What is gained by a team playing in the World Cup and getting absolutely hammered? In my opinion it is counter-productive.


Isnt he saying that it is his opinion here?

I really do not understand teh anger against the man, especially when 95% of teh people on this MB demean the performances that our batsmen have against Bangla, Zimm, Kenya etc...

If the performance dos not count, then why allow them to play? They only wasting dem energy, no?


 
jk2s 2007-02-20 15:55:10 

The format for this year's WC is much better than previous WC since all 8 major sides should get to play each other once before the semi-finals..

There are 24 games in the first round..of which probably only 4 matter in the grand scheme things...4 others between the "2nd tier" teams should also be interesting while the 16 games between "tier 1" and "tier 2" are almost certainly going to one-sided...

But then there are 24 competitive games in the Super 8 round, all of which should be interesting and not very predictable...

This is better than the previous WC in SA, when each of the "mediocre" teams played 6 games in the first round...this time they are limited to just 3...

This year's WC is similar in format to the 1992 WC where there were 9 teams and each team played each other once...

I'd wait and see how this format turns out before making any drastic changes...

 
natty_forever 2007-02-20 15:59:38 

In reply to anandgb ... No. The big teams are wasting their energy. :D

 
anandgb 2007-02-20 16:01:18 

In reply to natty_forever Yes, that is wa I mean. Cuz the players from teh big teams getting stick when they score double centuries. Never mind the other players failing. You don't hear anyone come here and say how horrible it is that a batsman cannot beat up the minnows. :lol:

 
vulcan 2007-02-20 16:02:49 

In reply to recman


Recman, I checked the Bermuda papers this morning to see their official response from the BCA or the public, but saw none.

Now your and my wife's response are the two official Bermudan responses so far. What is the public saying?

 
vulcan 2007-02-20 16:05:15 

In reply to anandgb

Kenya did mash up the mighty WI

 
Chrissy 2007-02-20 16:07:22 

In reply to natty_forever

The question I waan ask Mr. Holding is, did the Reggae Boyz devalue the 1998 Footie WC? Did TnT devalue the 2006 Footie WC. I have to disagree with this, actually I have to say this is crap.


That was my point above yours.

 
Chrissy 2007-02-20 16:08:19 

In reply to Willie

Some of them will get overseas contracts.

 
ganga_fan 2007-02-20 16:12:13 

In reply to vulcan

You smoke coil or wah? Or you dreaming?

Wah yuh get pan u cloth deh fuh throw on the table?

 
Dukes 2007-02-20 16:17:24 

In reply to anandgb Richie Richardson was once asked what he felt needed to be done to get WI cricket back on top.He started off by saying that he is not an expert in that area but his opinion was.......
I am sure that on anything cricket related Holding does not have any such caveat.

 
anandgb 2007-02-20 16:19:58 

In reply to Dukes It is implied when he says "it does not make sense to me." No?

 
birdseye 2007-02-20 16:30:23 

In reply to vulcan

Holding is not known for his deplomacy, eh. You are my guest and you come tell me off... is this being frank or has Mr. Holding crossed the thin line to being rude?


Well when you go to college you have to pay a lot of money that help pay your instructor’s salary, then turn around and work your ass off and if you work not up to stuff that same professor whose salary you paying will turn around and fail u.

Say hello to professor Holding.
:shock: :shock: :shock:

 
vulcan 2007-02-20 17:18:25 

In reply to ganga_fan


You smoke coil or wah? Or you dreaming?

Wah yuh get pan u cloth deh fuh throw on the table?




Huh? I don't get you, bro.

 
ganga_fan 2007-02-20 17:20:26 

In reply to vulcan

Irie....Kenya beating WI again. Dude not in this life time. Them things dat happen once in a lifetime.

 
vulcan 2007-02-20 17:30:23 

In reply to ganga_fan


Ok, I get you now. I think my point was, however, that a minnow did beat one of the big boys. Therefore i would not say, like Mr. Holding, that theses minnows will only get beat upon. Who knows, anything can happen.

 
ganga_fan 2007-02-20 17:31:05 

In reply to vulcan

99/100 times they will get licks.

 
Catsanus 2007-02-21 00:18:44 

that might come back to haunt Holding...don't be surprised if Ireland spring a surprise or 2...i'm dissapointed Armenia aren't in it...

 
birdseye 2007-02-21 09:06:11 

In reply to anandgb

Just imagine what life would be if we all agreed. Expert or not.


Like I said to Dukes, only a dead fish swim with the current all the time.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

 
denoke 2007-02-21 11:36:04 

In reply to Dukes Yuh correct like when he run he mouth bout they shouldn't play test cricket in Guyana due to rain and deh rass place he goes every summer to commentate has deh worst record in playing time lost to rain.

 
denoke 2007-02-21 11:41:00 

In reply to anandgb Remember the ICC is eager to globalize the game and the minnows will only get better when playing against better competition along with having sound cricket development programs.