Nehemiah Perry: 'We must raise the bar'
Retired Jamaican off-spinner Nehemiah Perry has come back into the cricketing spotlight with his recent appointment to Jamaica's selection panel. Although this is only his first stint, he was also selected as Chairman, replacing the long-serving Ruddy Williams. The youthful looking 40 year old shared some thoughts about his two year tenure with CaribbeanCricket.com on the first day of the top-of-the-table clash between Barbados and Jamaica at Kensington Park in East Kingston, Jamaica.
NP: I have been active, still playing, trying to give back to communities that are less fortunate. There are a couple of areas in the Red Hills Road and Whitehall areas where I'm trying to develop youngsters and change their mind set and their thinking about cricket because there are not a lot of people watching or playing cricket, so I am trying to get the interest back in that area. It's a start but as usual it's a challenge. Everything is a challenge.
What are some of the things you have been doing?
I have been trying to get them to be more active every week. I have been trying to organize games for them. Saturdays and Sundays, start up practising with them. I go there myself and practise and I think if I set the example by coming down in these areas and practise with them, mingle with them, I think they would see it as a feather in their cap to practise with me. Their response has been very very good. Even the other day I was passing and without even me there, they were practising so that's a good sign.
These would be people who play cricket at school and so on?
I come from the Red Hills Road area where there is a cricket ground. Michael Holding was born just next door me. What happened is that the interest is just gone. I am just trying to revitalize the place. We got some funds from National Commercial Bank and the National Health Fund. It was a hazard; it was a dust hazard to the children. A lot of them had developed asthma. We transformed the whole place. The passion for cricket and the love for it is gone so we're just trying to get that back. So far, the response has been very good. We have club meetings every Thursday. We're trying to get a structure in place.
You still play in the Senior Cup?
I was asked to play this year again but with the added duties I don't think I will be able to do that. I'm supposed to be watching the game, not playing the game. From time to time, I might play a one game here and there, but to be playing every week, I don't think that's the aim.
Ok. Let's talk about the added duties because that sort of slipped into a couple of articles. There was no big announcement that you were selected as Chairman of Selectors. How did that come about?
First of all, you have to be nominated and I have always said to people that I'm willing to serve. I'm willing to give back in whatever capacity – manager of a team, coaching because I have a Level 1 Coaching certificate, and I have knowledge about the game because I played for so long and I can identify talent and I can identify weaknesses and strengths. They nominated me and then they called me to confirm that I had been chosen as one of the selectors and not only as a selector but as the Chairman.
Who were the candidates?
I don't know who else was nominated, but I knew I was nominated.
Who called you?
Milton Henry, the Secretary of the JCA called me officially to say I have been chosen as the Chairman of Selectors and I said 'thank you very much'. I was an associate selector for West Indies responsible mostly for Under 19's and Women's cricket since last year October.
So this is you first time on the Jamaican panel.
First time, yes.
And as Chairman!
As Chairman…dem throw me in the deep end and say 'swim'! [laughs]
Although it's the first time, I'm sure that over the years you must have had your own thoughts and ideas about selection. What are some of those policies and what are some of the ones you will be trying to implement in your term of office.
When you are a selector, the main thing is to identify talent.
What's talent? How would you describe talent?
In my own words, talent is something that, when you see somebody playing the game, I can say to myself 'that is a prospect. That is somebody that can play at a high level; that is someone who can manage pressure; that is somebody who can deliver at the highest level.'
What are some of the things that a player would do that would make you say 'that person has talent?'
First of all, his technique is very very important; you have to look at that. His temperament, his concentration level and obviously making a ton-load of runs. Next thing I look at is discipline. I look at your work load, your whole mannerisms about the game of cricket and the love for it and the passion. I think once you have that and practise hard, there is something to work with. That's what you look for. And I'm not only looking at Jamaica you know. What I look for, even these players who are selected now, I told them yesterday in the dressing room that we are not only picking you for Jamaica, we are picking you to go out there and perform for Jamaica but by extension to play for West Indies down the road.
Over the years, there would have been selections in the various territories that people questioned. For example, Junior Murray was playing as the Windward Islands wicket keeper and people kept saying that he had no hope of being selected for the West Indies team so why don't they put Lyndon James there. What is your thought on that? Do you think that you should keep oldsters around or should you only keep people who have the potential to go forward to the West Indies team?
You can't do a wholesale change when you are trying to build a team. You need experienced guys in there and then you gradually ease them out. You call the old boys and say 'we are looking at somebody else, we are going to have you play an integral part, to come and give advice.' Keep them close. You can't just drop them. You have to keep them there. You can't say you're picking pure youngsters, pure man who have potential. We're going to get rid of the oldsters. The ones with experience have been there before.
Even in team meetings, these youngsters keep coming up to you and ask you what you think and you have to give them advice, and sound advice that can improve their game. We played for so long that we know what it takes to perform at a First Class Level and even a Test Level. Junior played at Test level and I think he even scored a Test hundred so you have to be careful how you manage these kinds of things, than just get rid of a player because the public is calling for their head. Nothing like that. You have to make sure that when you're asking youngsters to come in and fill a gap that he can do it, and do it efficiently.
You were quoted as saying that batsmen are not going to be picked on reputation; they are going to be picked on runs. Expand on that please.
I think over the years, a lot of the players are happy and comfortable with 30's and 40's. They're keeping their game with 30's and 40's and when you look at their averages they are averaging in their 20's and these are guys who have been playing for some time. When you look at the Parchments, the Lamberts, Bernard and even Pagon, these guys have gone six or seven years of playing First Class cricket. When you ask them how much match you play, they'll say 30 or 40 matches.
Now is time for us to move away from this and move the bar a bit higher. We need to raise the bar. Thirty or 40 not going to get you a West Indies game. I keep asking them 'why you playing cricket? Are you playing cricket to play for Jamaica or you are playing cricket to play for Jamaica yes, and perform to get to the next level?' They say they want to get to the next level. Well there is a process and the process to get to the West Indies level is by knocking down the door by piling up some runs; or get 10-wicket hauls or get five wickets and take brilliant catches, stumpings, whatever. Perform! Look like a professional. Be a professional. Don't just turn up.
For example, you know the season is coming up. I don't believe when a season starts, a man is going to try and get fit or a man is going to start batting some balls in the nets. You must start the preparation from before the season starts so when the man dem ready for you, you are ahead of the other people. You started to train two months ago on your fitness level. I was surprised to hear that most of the men came in unfit.
Unfit??!!
When the trials started, most of these guys were 50%. You should be coming in trials 80 – 90% fit.
So fitness is going to play an important part.
Of course, because remember it is not easy to play four days of cricket, to concentrate for four days. And that is where we've been let down over the years because people don't concentrate for long and they lose their concentration when they get to 30 and 40 so they get mentally tired because they are not used to be batting for long. My message to them is that you need to now move away from these 30's and 40's that you guys have been comfortable with because it's not carrying you anywhere.
Don't you think that will make them uncomfortable, knowing that if they don't score over 50 or if they don't take 5 wickets that the Selection panel would be looking to replace them?
I told them don't feel pressured. I'm not the kind of person who will give you one chance. I'm not saying you're going to play one game, you score 30 and you get dropped. What I mean is that we're not going to accept low scores continuously. When you think about it, this is the fourth game; none of the batsmen has scored a hundreds now you have to play your role. If you play as a batsman, we expect that you're going to score runs. A wicket like this now, you see a wicket like this now as a batsman, you start to smile and say "I want some runs on this" and you have to make it count. You can't just give away your wicket, you gone 20 and say 'yeah, that ah go keep mi game'. No! We need you to go on. There are too many starts – 20 and 30 – and then give your wicket away. There is no pressure.
But that sounds like pressure!
Well if they want to take it as pressure, but I'm reminding them that this is a different Chairman and this Chairman will not accept average performance. I need greatness. I need GREATNESS.
But….you're serving on a panel that the past Chairman is still on. So in your selection circle what has your message been to them and have you reached consensus and agreement as to the way forward?
All of us are looking in one direction and the one direction is to move forward. The past is the past. Now we need to move forward and think big. We can't have a small mind and think about 30's and 40's and get one wicket. When I was playing, and I hate to go back to my days because maybe my days were different, but I think there were better players, better batsmen to bowl to and to get out. I was bowling to people like Desmond Haynes, the Greenidges, the Carlisle Best's and Brian Lara's and those guys were hard to get out. Now I think the standard has dropped so I think if the standard has dropped, now you need to step away from the pack. Jamaica has a lot of talent and ability.
I'll give you an example. Parchment, Bernard, Pagon, Baugh all played Test cricket. These guys have tasted the big league. When you come back down to the smaller league, you must dominate. That's my point to them. I'm not saying that everyone is going to dominate. Is not every batsman is going to make runs on a day. One of them must stand up and say I got the start, I gone 40. Make it count this time. I don't have a problem if you go there, you get one ball, you get a good ball, nobody get a start on the pitch, we all out for 70, then fine.
But when you get a man gone 45 and Simon Jackson come on to bowl, who don't bowl no ball, and out you for 40-odd? No man! Me don't accept that and mi tell him. I told Parchment yesterday. I asked him how you must get out for 40 odd off a non-bowler? No man, you're a Test player, you gone 40-odd. You must make 150. You don't want them pick you again? You want them to look at you again. You don't want them to put you on the back bench and say that's it. You need to start knocking again, make them know you are transformed, you've worked on your concentration level and you're coming back, by making runs and taking wickets. That's the only way you can play for West Indies.
Jamaica might look good, they are in the lead but if you look at the team, no one has scored anything. Yes a 70 here, a man score a 60 there, but consistently and collectively, we need to be scoring over 300 runs with this kind of batting.
You have been very open in calling names and talking about some of your conversations with the players. Is your policy to be open with the players so they can understand why they haven't been selected?
Yes, I am not a coward. I think it is the best way to say 'listen, we didn't pick you this time because we feel this way and we see weaknesses. We have our Technical Director Jimmy Adams, we are going to get in touch with him and ask him to work on you and see if you can come back.' It's not a situation where we're going to drop a man and don't tell him. These players need to know why you drop him. They might not ask you but they might see you and not say anything to you. But I will call you in front of your face to say why we left you out. We're going to try somebody else but is not that we're finished with you. Now, you need to go and say 'the Chairman say I'm playing across the line, I'm getting out LBW all the while so I think I need to play a little straighter, 'and you go and work on it.
When you meet to select a team, what are the sources of information, what are the stats that you use to pick your next team?
When you go into a meeting, I normally get all the stats on players. I use the career stats and the current stats, like the last three games and I bring it to the forum. When you look at it, nobody really score no whole heap of runs so it was kind of easy. Nobody was really standing out, there was no one knocking on the door for me to say we have to drop a seasoned player. You have to bring your facts to the meetings. You bring your stats and then you argue any particular player who is on the border line. Yes, you have to come with your stats.
Tell me about knocking down the door because people are surprised and somewhat disappointed that someone like Devon Smith, after scoring a double hundred, has been brought back into the West Indies team. Should it take more than one good score, one good game to get a selection?
Again, it's the level that we're at and we're not producing a lot of Test cricketers. It is easy to get into the team.
The West Indies team?
Yes, yes. It's easy to get into the West Indies team, because if you have one good season, one good season, you score 500 runs, you're in. What I believe is that Devon has played Test cricket, and that is why it would be easier on him. But a man who just start, I believe you should play some First Class games before you go to the Test level. I remember they picked a player called Ryan Ramdass from Guyana and I don't hear nothing about him since that Test match he played. So my thing is that, not putting a time thing on it, but I think you should play three, even four seasons and perform, maybe five or six centuries within that time. When you look at the Ricky Pontings and so on, when they start playing Test cricket, they have 30-odd First Class hundreds under their belt.
So with that thinking, somebody like Xavier Marshall wouldn't be in your team.
Well, maybe not. Maybe not. Sometime you can get pick off potential though. When you look at Fidel Edwards, he didn't play no whole heap of First Class match. Jerome Taylor neither, but you can see it. The first time I saw Chris Gayle, I said 'he's going to play Test cricket.' I looked at Wavell Hinds and could tell. Marlon Samuels got picked off potential. Never had a First Class hundred.
How long does potential carry you through?
It's going to carry you through for a while, but if you're not scoring, or not getting wickets and you're not living up to the potential that you showed a year ago, then sooner or later, you would probably have to watch and then go and work at your game and come back again.
Would you look at helping players in other areas apart from cricketing matters? Suppose it is a mental thing with a player who you've identified as somebody with talent and potential but he hasn't performed. The coach has worked with him, the Technical Director has worked with him and still nothing. Would you go to the next level and say President Campbell, we need to do something else for this player?
I'll do anything for the players. I'll do anything to develop the game and to develop any particular person. It might not even be cricket, it might be personal life. Something going on his life that is affecting him and we need some advice, then I'd do some recommendations, do some checks, not a problem. They can come and talk to me about anything. Anything they want to talk to me about I am here, not only for cricket but to give advice on anything that I can help with.
That fits in very nicely with your career as a Life Insurance professional.
Finance…. a lot of players don't understand the finance part of it. I've taken care of a lot of the guys' finances in terms of putting something down for rainy day, retirement, because there comes a day when you're not going to stop playing, injuries, and things like that. You have to educate them, they might not spend the money but I have to make them know about it. So I tell them about it and they don't have to buy from me, they can go to somebody else. But you have to make them aware of the situation. You don't want a Richard Austin kind of thing catch them where they say 'you know that man used to play for West Indies, and you know him used to play for Jamaica, how the man mash up so man?' So that is why we are here, to help those youngsters. Sometimes when you're earning money, and a lot of money, you turn fool. You start buy all kind of things, you waste your money and then you get dropped and you say 'wha?' So you have to be careful. You have to guide them along the way and hope that they take it in. Some of them might not want you to tell them how to spend their money. You have to just walk away and say 'good luck'. Others will say you're right and they will comply.
I spoke with you when you announced your retirement in 2004 after the Carib Beer Finals. One of the things you said is that you wanted to spend more time with your family. Tell us about your family.
When my wife heard that I retired, she was celebrating, telling the kids "your father will be home now, taking you to beach and so on". And it was good for about two months! I told her I had to keep active. I was playing Senior Cup for Kingston. So working Monday to Friday, coming in at 7 o'clock at night, then on a Saturday morning, gone to cricket at 8:00am. She was wondering what happened…if I was going to make a comeback! I had to keep fit and help out the youths them. I was only 30-something, I couldn't just pack it up like that. I don't have any aches or pains, the knees are holding up. She said ok, do your thing. She knows I love it. I'm very active in the Whitehall and Red Hills Road area so I have to go to club meetings, I'm also on the Development Committee, so there are a lot of things in the fire. I still try and pick up my son sometimes from school.
Does he play cricket?
No, he's only 6. He doesn't even know what he wants to do.
You didn't put a ball in his hands?
He plays a little cricket but I don't know if him love it so much and it's kind of difficult at 6 to say 'he has talent'. I don't even know what he wants to do. He says he wants to play football, then he says he wants to be Asafa Powell all of a sudden. My other two sons are in the USA, they are playing basketball, one is playing American football. I don't know where they're going. Wherever they go I am there to advice, lend my support financially or whatever. I am there.
So you're not going to try and influence the youngest one to do cricket.
No, no.
Speaking about influence, sometimes it is said that some people in the cricketing fraternity have a lot of influence on the selectors. You make a call, or you ask 'how come so and so not on the team' and the next thing they're on the team. Can Nehemiah Perry be influenced?
No, not in that sense because if you want to influence me, you need to give me facts. So if you call me and say why that man not in the team and I ask why he should be in the team and the man says the boy score x centuries and he been scoring centuries, knocking on the team and why he's not even at trials. If he brings that up, I'm not guaranteeing that he's going to be on any team but now he probably opened my eyes. You go home and do your checks and you say 'the man is right, he should probably be even in the squad'. But a man can't call me and say that and I say ok, the man is in the team.
You will select who comes to trials. That will come out of the Senior Cup competition. Does that mean you will have to travel around the island and watch the matches?
My duty is to watch every cricket, even school cricket. I will watch even school cricket. You will see talent at the school level, make recommendations and even try to get him to a club. Things like that. Remember that Sachin Tendulkar played Test cricket at either 17 or 16. So I don't buy that a man is too young to play Test cricket or to play for Jamaica. I played for Jamaica when I was still going to Calabar. So talent is out there still and we have to go out there as selectors and watch every cricket. Every thing. We have the Super League and the lower level Red Stripe Cup. I will watch even that because there is probably one or two there that can make the grade to Jamaica, and even the West Indies.
What is the communication relationship between you and the West Indies selectors? Do you have to communicate often? Do they ask you to report on things back to them?
I wouldn't say often. Maybe in the future, but not now. The three selectors are the ones in control. If they call upon you to say that Robert [Haynes] won't be able to make the game, you are down in Jamaica, go and watch that game for us and give us a report, make some recommendations, then I would do that.
If they heard of a player who probably wasn't selected regularly in the Jamaica team, could they say to you that we want to have a look at X player, make sure he's in the Jamaica team? Could that happen?
Well they can say that, but I don't know if they can influence me like that. You have to remember is not only me select the team. I have a panel of people.
Who sits on that panel?
Five of us. The captain, the coach, Ruddy Williams and Ephraim McLeod. Senior players like Chris Gayle, because he's the West Indies captain, might say 'give him another chance because they're looking at him.' At the end of the day, the ultimate decision is with the panel.
Do you have the casting vote?
Yes, unfortunately because sometimes people just deh pon yuh case like Matlock [laughing]. My chest is broad and if at the end of the day somebody questions someone's selection, I have always said is 'we'. I have never said is me. Five of us. Anytime we pick a team, all of us sign that paper as consent. Then we have to call the President and he has to approve the team, along with the Secretary etc, not that they're going to do anything to change. There is a process, it's the protocol. I came here and saw it and I'm not changing that.
What do you want to change?
What I want to see is the level of our cricket improve. I know we are comfortable because we have dominated regional cricket for the last couple of years, we are the defending champions. What I want to change is more to do with West Indies-Caribbean cricket. My little bit starting in Jamaica is to get cricketers to be a lot more professional about what they're doing. If this is what you do for a living and this is what you want to do for a living, please treat it good. I'm not satisfied with the attitude of the players and how they deal with their cricket. I think their workload is way below par to improve their game. I want to change the whole mind-set and attitude and professionalism about the game of cricket.
You're a good example for them to follow, so good luck.
Well, I hope I can make an impact on people's lives, not only with cricket but their whole life – living and home and children and all of that. I'm here to support and give advice the best way I can.