CaribbeanCricket.com has obtained a copy of a letter sent by WIPA President and CEO Wavell Hinds to Dwayne Bravo on October 8th, following the match with India that had been under a cloud of uncertainty. The letter reads:

Dear Mr. Bravo

Thank you for your e-mail of October 7th and congratulations to you and the team on today’s victory.

Before making any substantive response I am compelled to first refute in the strongest possible manner all of your previous assertions claiming ignorance on the part of the “senior players” regarding the proposal to discontinue the payment of $35,000 per day of cricket for the benefit of members of the senior West Indies team, and the reallocation of these monies to help to fund retainer contracts for an additional ninety (90) members of WIPA.

Please recall your attendance at WIPA’s AGM held in Trinidad on Saturday, February 1st 2014 at the Capital Plaza Hotel where you, other senior players including Shivnarine Chanderpaul and Ramnaresh Sarwan, along with several other members in attendance, participated in a lively and lengthy discussion about this issue following a presentation made by WIPA Director, Michael Hall.

The minutes of that AGM record your comments expressing 100% support for this initiative and you will be provided with a copy of the resolution authorizing the WIPA Executive to pursue same, which was passed by majority vote of the members present on the floor. The minutes also reflect the only qualification to your support, which was to ask that the current WIPA executive make every effort to ensure that the shortfall in revenue accruing from the reallocation, be made up in other areas of player remuneration.

 

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In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

Hmmm,
I wonder if someone was drinking too much and forget what they agreed to?
Interesting times lies ahead.
Would be nice if we can go a few years without off field drama.

In reply to positiveg


popcorn peanuts

All those who in India who owe WIPA please pay up
I'm one who believes strongly if you are part of a club and the club have dues that you must pay or don't be part of the club.

In reply to positiveg

What if membership is mandatory?

Wavell playing hardball (cricket, not tape ball, windball, tennis ball cricket), I can't fault him cause rules are rules.
However, still need to find out which chair he's sitting in or was sitting in when the MOU was signed. One thing I know was the the chair was indeed, nailed down (previous chair incidents has caused such drastic measures to be put in place, beforehand)

In reply to Arawak

Thought did cross my mind though I wasn't sure if being part of WIPA was mandatory or not cause I've heard of some players not being part of it. Though I feel if you are a pro/semi pro cricketer in the WI you should at least be part of the players assoc.

I'd sum up that being part of WIPA is strongly advisable.

Is that a letter to Bravo or a letter to Ramnarine?

Wow!

In reply to JOJO

Was the original from Bravo or Ramnarine?

Pretty predictable.

This whole thing lies on whether players were consulted and agreed on the steps to be taken next.

They did.

Ramnarine didn't though.

Well done Michael for your prompt response.

Now, for de Courtesy's own consumption and edification, can you prepare a comparative analysis of:

Total take home pay before and after the removal of the sponsorship fees.

P.S. I take no side in this matter...and further I understand perfectly well the genesis of the feud.

Not doubting Wavel, but he gave up too much!!!! I don't think the players were expecting that amount....

Was there an agreed upon percentage?

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

To muddy the waters....

Was that a letter from Hinds to Bravo--- or Hinds to Ramnarine----or Hall to Bravo--or Hall to Ramnarine?

In reply to JOJO

That's all new dread

In reply to JOJO

Fack boy. You have released the cat...

Is he trying to say to Bravo stop calling the kettle black?
Cause this to me seems like a low blow
And he still no answer the question of which seat he's holding or did he when he said this?

Tit for tat, I kill you dog you gonna kill my cat.

In reply to positiveg

Cameron gih he cappo so he should stfu

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

that almost seems like what he wants to point to.
And i really hope ain't that he throwing at Bravo. Cause that would indeed be low.

Whatever the reality please keep the players vexed as they KILLED yesterday!

Congrats gents that was top notch!

In reply to Commie

This was a very good response by Wavell or Michael Hall or whoever....

Bravo and his team mates look rather foolish, for having attended that meeting, and agreed to it. Did they not use their calculators at that meeting?

There are a number of quotes I found interesting:

"Your erroneous conclusion that I needed to do so in order to get the answers, once again demonstrates the stark contrast in my approach to leadership as against what was the previous norm. I am not a one man band."

"It is both unfortunate and surprising, that your “advocacy” on behalf of the players has been coloured with personal attacks on my competence and integrity considering the history of our relationship. You should never forget where you are coming from, and who you have met along the way to the current location in your life’s journey."

In reply to mikesiva

Wavell talking like he's about to out de man business in de public.
Hope Bravo no respond in kind,
But as moneybrain say

Lol lol
G

So who's lying?

In reply to gvenkat

Nobody. Bravo didn't know what was discussed at the meeting

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

So nothing new.. Like any typical Wondian.. Bravo ejaculated prematurely?

This not gon end well for somebody

In reply to Commie

That is not what Mr.Hinds wrote as quoted below.

You cannot be that blatantly misleading when the document is there for all to read.



What percentage of membership vote is required for ratification of this agreement.

If 3 members, Bravo, Chanderpaul and Sarwan agreed to this, it may not be legally binding agreement.

I will have to explore this further.

Hope the writer ent forget his journey either..........boy what a lil power would do to you........

serves the players right, in their quest to rout certain people they sell themselves and did not even find out the asking price........

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

Fortis!

Well, well! A strong challenging response from Wavell that has the ring of truth in it.

So Bravo was at the meeting and concurred with the decisions.

So the rates are not really less than before.

So "conflict of interest" (WIPA-WICB) is a continuing trend from the previous incumbent's time.


Hhmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.................


The two letters "from Dwayne Bravo" were clearly written by two different people. (It now is clear that Ramnarine was not at the big meeting Wavell now cites. Did he write that first letter?)

For his part, Wavell surely received guidance/advice in writing this response but it clearly bears his stamp. Indeed, it shows signs, in one or two areas, that he could have trod a bit softly, but.... overall, a strong, stern repudiation of what he sees as the fruit of meetings after the meeting.

Was Wavell too harsh?

Was Bravo responding to criticism from some of his teammates and trying to protect his own skin?


We will see.


//

I have to ask these questions because it seems that WIPA kas kas is being played out in public.

1 Who exposed the letter from Bravo to Hinds and why?

2 Does Bravo really speaks for the players in India and who elected him to do so?

3 Is this the start of a power struggle and is Bravo setting up himself to challenge for the presidency and top job in WIPA?

4 How many playing days Bravo have anyway?

Many interesting points and argumentation in the letter. But this being CC.com (and me) I'll just stick to the 'good' stuff.

Translation: Who de f*ck you tink I is, Ramnarine?



Translation: Who de f*ck you tink you is, Clive Lloyd?



Translation: Watch where you going f*cker.

Hinds may win the battle, but lose the war....

If the players are earning less in real terms for playing Tests, what motivation is there for the IPL players to choose playing Tests against England in April over the IPL?

In reply to Verstehen









//

Interesting statements by Hinds...

With all those flowery words, the base question is still left unanswered. Has the amount been made up?
If so he can just say that clearly.

Another Question to be answered is why WIPA had asked the players not to sign the agreement if everything is rosy?


To Top it off, a request for him to toe the line of WICB since they are the ones who elevated him to captaincy.

More Importantly why was he not responding to the calls of the players when this crisis broke? Had he responded it might not have reached to this stage at all

In reply to mikesiva

How that is helpful? If they play IPL only they get 1 payday instead of 2

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

This is why you should never rush to judgment until you get both sides of the story. What do you people who were crucifying Wavell say now?

It's interesting though how Wavell has chosen to deal with the conflict of interest issue: "You (Ramnarine) did it so it's okay if I do it too." That's the weakest part of his letter by far.

Finally, I think Wavell's ghost writer is just as good as Bravo's. In fact, I would give the edge to Wavell's writer

In reply to Walco

Really though...Please......

In reply to Walco

.......... a thick edge!







//

In reply to mikesiva

West Indies first policy. Play IPL dont' play for WI lose your contract continue playing for these kind of tourneys.
Will see who can hold their breath the longest kinda threat.
The thing is did Bravo know what he really agreed to in that meeting? Or did they give him a six for a nine?

SHOTS FIRED SHOTS FIRED cricketer down>

"You should never forget where you are coming from, and who you have met along the way to the current location in your life’s journey."

Strong response, Wavell.
But ..forget the personal inuendos and career reminders. More pertinent is :

What did the players know and agree to and have their request been met by the new MOU/ financial arrangements ?

In reply to Ewart

This response was clearly written in anger with hardly any filters!

I would have been more comfortable if this had been conducted in private and above board without the unfortunate ad hominem attacks

While I am not sure of the ins and outs of this brouhaha, I believe in no-holds-barred when there is an attack on one's integrity.

It is clear that someone is being a bit careless with the truth and is allowing personal animus to cloud his judgement.

Given their previous public profile, I am more willing to believe that the letter over Hinds' signature was more likely written by Hinds than the letter issued over Bravo's signature written by Bravo.

Notwithstanding the substantive issues, there clearly is/was an ongoing personality conflict between Ramnarine and Hinds and Bravo is being used as an unwitting proxy in this war of words. If it true that Bravo was present at the meeting where the issues were discussed-regardless of the merits- then he has a serious credibility problem.

Bravo it seem will be a collateral casualty in this test of egos between Hinds and Ramnarine. Sad, really!

In reply to jacksprat

Oh?!?

Is that new? ....or are you now seeing this side of this 'someone' because of his attacks on your fellow Jamaicans.



Yeah. That's just rich.

In reply to natty_forever

Apparently that statement got lost on most. Basically Bravo said in d meetin share d pie buh make sure we piece nuh get too small. Now d details come n dey realise how small dey piece is

In reply to Walco

There are more holes in that response than in a sieve.

In reply to JOJO

Please do not use your own brush to paint me. I have never supported anyone based on his passport.

For example, I never supported Cameron for the presidency of the WICB regardless of the passport he held! I do not focus on the personalities but on the institution of the WICB and Cameron had been part of it for more that a decade.

Moving on, I still contend that if a man makes an assertion and it can be proven by documented minutes that is s assertion is not factual then I think that person would be more than a little cavalier with the truth!!!




All I will say on this matter is: listen to Hinds speak and listen to Bravo speak and make up your own mind of who is more capable of writing either of the letters!!!!

In reply to jacksprat

I don't exactly support Hinds's stance, but I have no doubts he's capable of writing a letter like that...Hinds got his CXCs and A Levels from Camperdown, and his degree from UWI, so he knows how to put a letter together.

As for Bravo, I'm not so sure....

In reply to natty_forever Agreed. As his cousin attests,Bravo might not be the most astute thinker but he was sharp enough to throw in what was an extremely important caveat. It appears that this objective was not remotely met. Under the circumstances it does not matter whether Bravo was at the meeting or not, if the MOU terms are going to sink a big hole in the income of the senior cricketers then surely as players' representative, WIPA would have to come back to the ones who are to make the sacrifice to solicit their consent before going forward. Arguing that Bravo was at the meeting and OK'd the concept is weak shit. They are the only ones that needed to be consulted since the "majority" would be benefitting, not sacrificing.

In reply to Verstehen
or 2 thieves in a one fox hole, or 2 whores going after the same john and now fighting

In reply to mikesiva

That's exactly what I am saying re Hinds background!

Was he also Headboy at Camperdown High School?

I understand Hinds is back at UWI but I am not sure he has received his degree as yet.

As I said, I am not sure about the details of the imbroglio so I will reserve opinion, but I will put my head on the block and state categorically that I think Bravo is incapable of writing the letter issued in his name!!!

In reply to Star

My ghost writer comment was not directed at the substance of either letter. I don't have the facts, so I'm on the fence for now

In reply to jacksprat

Nuh mine! Sommadem juss cyaan do nuttn bout the envy and hate-on. Blindly they live by equating a mediocre player to Frank Worrell ...... the search for (absent) ulterior motives is always at the top of their minds.

They do not think it is possible to be straightforward and without bias. But they then refuse to see themselves in that same light!



//

In an attempt to play tit for tat and score points, Hinds is painting the WICB president wid a very tarry brush.

In reply to mikesiva I am sure that Hinds wrote the letter too given the ill-advised personal attacks in response to the response assaults from the Bravo letter. I would say however that the letter did not put Hinds or his arguments in a good light, contrary to what some posters here believe. He attempts to respond to several of the attacks / assertions in Bravo's letters with some watery counters - the classic being the response to the 1% of wicb revenue claim.

All Hinds has done is heightened the personal animus and further exposed the fissure between senior players and WIPA for public consumption. Can't see how this can end well for Hinds. And Cameron will have to employ some considerable diplomatic skills to avoid this ending badly for wi cricket (read: herald the return of Ramnarine).

In reply to mikesiva

My bad! I thought he was Fortis!



//

Well, I do not like the idea of having Soca Bravo at the negotiating table.

Bravo was in de meeting wearing Beat headphones listening to the fus cut of the Bangladeshi song.

In reply to Logic

How you get there so fast boss?

In reply to Walco
OK. I am with you.

In reply to Logic

What about the ill-advised personal attacks in the Bravo/Ramnarine letter? Civility is usually one of the first casualties of war.

In reply to Walco



Same knife stick sheep, stick goat.


But the administrator should be careful to use his a little more delicately.








//

In reply to Ewart

Agreed, but I thought it was two administrators at war, notwithstanding the addressees of the letters

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

Is it possible that Dinanath Ramnarine was the ghost writer behind the letter supposedly from Dwayne Bravo?


I find the writings in those public emails from Dwayne Bravo to be a little to (uummmmmm) technical and well worded for a man who wears pink shirts and 'skirts' in Indian music videos and who finds himself making songs such as "Go Gyal go".




P.S. - Why am I getting the feeling that Wavell Hinds may know who the actual writer of these letters purportedly from Dwayne Bravo is and he was actually replying to that person and not really Bravo?

There are certain 'clues' in the Wavell Hinds letter that causes one to ponder on the above.

This sounds like the fault of the previous WIPA guy.

@RMc@

Three persons were named as being at the meeting. Who were they representing? Did they report back?
If this is referred to the membership of WIPA I think 90 will beat 15 in any vote

Wait weh imusic?

In reply to Star

I did state yesterday that the impression given was that WIPA management acted on their own in a sweetheart deal with their 'padnas'.

This has been answered in part by asserting that Bravo and other senior players ratified what in essence was a majority vote for a key component of this deal.

The subplot in all of this is that this is also a power grab by Dinas to get back into WIPA management.

The majority of the union base is who decides who resigns or stays, not the few players who are the privileged few at this time and who in the past have been manipulated by Dinas into every battle, often with little information and consultation given to the greater body of WIPA members.

I hope it sets context for everything that has happened in the past.

This is all about Dinas. Bravo like a puppet with his mouth opening but Dinas voice booming out.

"I want my job BACK !"

As Walco opined, combining that with the greater importance of T20 cricket to player revenue, it may hasten the departure of more players from WIPA as players become real free agents.

In reply to Verstehen



tips hat for the clarity of thought there mate

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

Check Facting Mate. Mr Wavell Kasparov.

Too early for check mate but the end game is looking mighty interesting. It sure looks like somebuddy going dong

I think this will have an effect on the teams performance going forward under Bravo's leadership because there are now doubts regarding the trust and credibility of the captain. What a lala.

In reply to summergon

It did seem to effect some performance. Not sure what the long term affect will be though.

Wavell surely has a career in politricks in the future. All that beautiful prose mixed in splendidly with personal attacks, but he still has not clarified what compensation the players got for the loss of the $35,000 a day sponsorship revenue.

The increase in retainers and match fees might make up some of it, but it seems they are worse off financially if that was all they got.

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Quid pro quo...He helped out Cameron team, Cameron gave him the WI captaincy....

In reply to Larr Pullo

Wavell aint holding back nothing.

Man letting out Cameron and Bravo business in public

But I cant believe Cameron still delivering on all dem side deals he made to become WI board president.

One of these mornings we go wake up to a new WI Board President as Cameron promised it to a Trini.

In reply to BatQuake

It could be...

Did Wavell and Ramnarine had a falling out?

I now see how the captaincy was taken away from Sammy...Bravo say it ain't so... it's an extra thousand dollars in your pocket when you are the captain

Dave Cameron was on Sports Desk on Klas Espn Radio in jamaica today saying that the 35k was thrown out by the Court and so it wqs reworked by the present agreement.

In reply to Walco

My typo must have distracted you - apologies. I intended to write "In response to the personal assaults". There was no question that Bravo's letter was viciously personal, but I contend that it was ill-advised for Hinds to try to respond in kind if he wants to win the war. His suggestion that Bravo may have owed his elevation to the captaincy to his association with the club of the wicb President may be a good dig at Bravo but does not put a dent in the perspective that Hinds various relationships and positions held may have created a conflict of interest. There is no equivalency here so, assuming you want to be seen as the adult in the room, why make the point.

Once again this looks like another classic case of failing to exercise DUE DILIGENCE .
Oh what a tangled Web People weave .

In reply to Commie

I am glad you said "in part" because I am having difficulty believing that the senior players would agree to what appears to very drastic cuts to their playing income. They would have to be all commies (small c) to agree to that.

Even so if two of the three senior players were Sarwan (not even in the mix these day so more likely to have his financial status improved by the new deal) and Chanderpaul (close to the end of his career) this was hardly a representative group. So all the fingers must point at Bravo. But Hinds himself was compelled to disclose Bravo's clear caveat that anydeal minimize the effect on the senior players' income. I can't see that his endorsement of the principle behind feeding more money to the majority of players equates to an endorsement of an MOU that takes a big chunk out of his income.

If you got me at some public meeting on world hunger and asked whether I thought those who had should give up more to help feed the starving of course I would say yes. But if you then went in my account and pulled out half my hard earned cash I would ready to throttle you.

In reply to hubert

I agree. Good letter except for the very last paragraph and also the part about him playing for Kensington.

In reply to Logic

Logical. The players making the sacrifice and also the senior players should have been given an opportunity to see the agreement before it was signed. This is standard IR practice.

Let's say I am a senior member of staff in a company and that my allowances account for half my take home pay. Other staff members don't get allowances. In a members meeting the Union suggests that the allowances be shared amongst all the staff. Of course in order not to sound selfish I agree in principle but clearly make it known that the Union must find a way to ensure that my take home pay remains the same. Perhaps they could negotiate a company car for me.

The least I would expect as is that they would share the draft agreement with me before signing.

I think that this is all that Bravo is saying.

In an interview with Jimmy Adams a few years ago while he served on the WIPA Executives, he praised Brian Lara because Lara insisted that benefits filter down to those who play mostly at the regional level. Adams said that the previous executive with Walsh and Hooper, seemed to only represent the interest of the senior players who played consistently for the WI team.

I know Wavell is interested in uplifting the regional players so he would have pushed for this.

Wavell is doing a degree in Journalism. Go dig up the last interview published here.

In reply to Yamfoot

Oh rass. You mean everything in that letter is either untrue or misinterpretation???

In reply to Yamfoot

U see Yammie..what the elitist 15 forget is that they serve as test players at the whim and fancy of the WICB selectors. But what exactly are they fighting for? I gather there are certain payments that only players that are actually on the WI team get as opposed to those who are eligible for WI selection (meaning the general first class players). Is it that they are fighting for WI players (No matter the class of contract they hold) should get these payments once playing? If that is so, then that makes sense. But if they are fighting for only the "senior players" to benefit from these payments regardless of whether they play or not, then that is a different issue.

The real question is what they were legally entitled to prior to now and what is the distinction. The term legally entitled to is important as Dave Cameron has always contended that some of the payments the players used to receive was not legally due to them. All of this needs to be sorted out before we can determine if the players were disadvantaged or not. Orville Higgins had an interesting interview with Cameron on KLAS ESPN Radio today on the topic.

In reply to dale_staple

Which part of their remuneration was illegal ?

In reply to dale_staple

Summary of Orville's convo with Cameron please!

In reply to positiveg

Bravo does not even drink beer.

In reply to Benjie

It isn't Bravo. Its Ramnarine.

Secondly WIPA risks losing its raison detre.

Marlon Samuels for example is not a member of WIPA, has an agent, plays in IPL and has a retainer. More players may follow a self determinant free agent path. What then? WICB wins. Well they and IMG and a few well connected agents.

Whilst Ramnarine is trying to get himself back in WIPA management this infighting is weakening WIPA both as a platform for players and a negotiating partner for the WICB.

This isn't unusual. Many ridiculous battles were fought and won on technicalities. Sarwan is a great example. A perennially unfit cricketer who complained about being victimized and not having a back problem and is now out of a county contract because of the same condition.

Anyway...back on point, FICA should get involved. This is embarrassing.

WIPA I have no doubt has access to Lawyers ;
it was therefore incumbent on those who in the top positions of WIPA to seek legal advice on ALL MATTERS ; before agreeing or not agreeing with ALL proposals from the WICB .

Obviously the FULL membership or most of the members of WICB must be entitled to know the advice of their Lawyer on ALL MATTERS .

I hope that this aint another case of closing the Barn door after the Horse has bolted . In my opinion , if the rank & file members of WIPA were not fully informed regarding what their Executives in WIPA did, then perhaps a majority of them can summon a meeting with the Executives , and
if they are not satisfied remove them from their posts in WIPA .

In reply to Yamfoot

Didnt get all of it just that particular aspect. It was kinda funny in parts.

In reply to Commie

Perhaps Ramnarine is advising the Bravo et al ( eg 1% from WICB) but it's quite likely that the touring players got him involved when they realized the magnitude of the pay cut. Did someone say it was ridiculously insane ? No one takes a pay cut of the magnitude described by Bravo without a fight.

Simply saying its Ramnarine up to his tricks is trivializing the matter and furthermore insulting the intelligence of the players in question. They have a reasonable concern.

In reply to sudden

There was some payment amounting to 35k that a Court ruled the players were not entitled to recieve that they had been getting. So i gathered from the interview.

In reply to Benjie

We don't even know who the players are.

Its not trivializing because they almost held a strike in an argument with themselves.

Think about it.

In reply to dale_staple

Ok. I don't seem to remember any such ruling. Gotta check my sources on that. Is he saying that is why the remuneration to the players was reduced so sharply?

In reply to sudden

One of the reasons. I don't know how to get back today's interview with Cameron.

In reply to sudden

The matter which the courts ruled on was the scheduling appeal matter.

You will recall that WICB had lost an arbitration when Judge Jairam gave a judgement against the Board and awarded a huge amount to WIPA. WICB had appealed and judgement was awarded in their favour.

This was never reported in the media and de Courtesy reported this here.

WIPA also gave up the right to determine which players get retainer contracts. A matter which they fought tooth and nail for during the last administration.

I would love to get any information on any court ruling on sponsorship fees. And I wish I was wrong on this one.

WIPMACOL IS ALSO GONE FROM THE TABLE.


I await news on WIPMACOL and how it affects interested parties.

In reply to Benjie Agreed. Players don't need Ramnarine to tell them that they would be fools to have their incomes dessimated without putting up a fight. And Bravo is unlikely to be an outlier on his stance. People need to look past the personalities and consider the issue.
I am one who would hate to see the re-emergence of Ramnarine but if he resurfaces the fault should lie at Hinds'door.

In reply to Commie

You speak as if Ramnarine told you that he is trying to get himself back. Why would he though?

In reply to Yamfoot

For the same reason he is negotiating.

MONEY.

There is an agenda and I am willing to be proved wrong. The insistence of the writer that the WIPA executive should resign, what value would that serve given no elections and noone to take up the role.

Unless....

In reply to Courtesy

Thanks, mate. I remember parts and the appeal but not this bit. V interesting. Did you archive it? Is so, post it here

In reply to sudden

Can't seem to find the original thread. Will keep searching.

Another Link

No interest was generated on this matter.

It is my opinion that this conflict will not negatively affect the teams performance.

3 Questions that Wavell has to answer are

1. Has the difference in pay for Senior players addressed as agreed during the Meeting

2. Why did WIPA ask the players not to sign the agreement?

3. Why did Hinds not respond to the calls by the players to get clarity on the agreement sent to them...

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com


I said, I wasn't going to say nuttin', but I have to change that stance.

I could help thinking that in this letter, Wavell Hinds boxed around Dwayne Bravo as if he were one of his "kept" women.

1. Re: any alleged "conflict of interest"

Can anyone inform me as to why it is necessary for WIPA to be subsidized by the WICB to the tune of $500,000 while at the same time representing the interest of the players?

Why shouldn't WIPA maximize the earnings of the players from the WICB and increase the levy on players' earnings to a make up for this purported sum of $500,000 USD annually?

BTW, what is the purpose of the $500,000?

Educate me someone.


2. Low blow


Was this last paragraph necessary?

Hint, hint.

Not even Sammy was expected to be subservient to the dictates of his so-called "benefactor"

"Dwayne did you get the message"?

In reply to Commie

My sources also tell me Dinas trying to get back in the mix.

In reply to jacksprat

Wasn't he the captain of the football team too? No joke. I heard that he was. Is that true?

Hinds is one talented dude!

PS: Pardon JoJo's ignorance of Hinds' background. We'll soon have to tell him about Jimmy Adams'.

In reply to Benjie

The way to reallocate a fixed sum of money by taking away from you and giving to others and keep your total amount unchanged is usually referred to as VOODOO ECONOMICS. ..

if Wavell would be able to accomplish that feat he should be heading over to Europe in December to be recognized as the latest Nobel Economics Laureate. ...

In reply to FanAttick

Ummmm you could ask the WICB to kick in some bucks so as to make the number work.....

In reply to JahJah

Yes I understand Wavell was the center half and captain of Camperdown's Manning Cup football team.

In reply to Commie

Please enlighten me, how does the WIPA voting structure work. Is it a straight democracy-one man, one vote?

Do the first class players have the same rights(voting and otherwise) and privileges as the 'senior', international players?

In reply to jacksprat

One man, one vote. As to voting rights where there are demands on senior player renumeration, I don't know.

Note there are also other players like Marlon who are not part of WIPA.

In reply to jacksprat

There needs to be two separate unions. 1 for prima donnas and1 for first class players

In reply to Commie

Is Sammy a member? There were doubts expressed in the past

In reply to Commie

Thanks for the clarification. Much appreciated!

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Not sure I agree with you. I thought Ramnarine always acted in the broad interests of all the players.

I have always supported WIPA but this infighting and character assassination-from both factions-is unseemly.

Does Bravo purport to speak, in 'his letter', for all WIPA members or just the elite 'senior' players on tour?

It would be a bit haughty on his part to presume to speak for the rank and file in calling for the resignation of the duly elected WIPA executive!

Unless there is an equitable distribution of the funds it will always be much harder to ask FC not to scab when there is such a disparity in between them and the 'senior' players. Would would their incentive to hold strain if the 'senior' players do not seem to care about the welfare of the FC players?

In reply to jacksprat

I'll go out on a limb here and say the international players are about self only and not about the wider body. That's not to say that the regional players will not behave the same way once they graduate.

In reply to Chrissy

Good on him neither do I, but summen is still amiss here.
Why Wavell saying Bravo agree and Bravo now writing like he didn't know about what the final draft was saying.

In reply to positiveg

Bravo agreed that more revenue should be allocated to FC players but not a 75% pay cut. It MAY have been different with a 25% pay cut

In reply to Jabari18

Is it 75 of overall pay or 75 of appearance fees? I am confused

WIPA is taking home too much money-they should give some more of their take to the regional players instead of cutting the senior players take...they are the one bussing they ass so that the WICB and WIPA stays afloat.

In principle, I would rather see a strike now and bring the WICB and WIPA back to reality...

This team needs a rouge leader like we have seen not too long ago…with him this would have been a no brainer…

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

Suh what do they need to do to eliminate this culture?

In reply to Jabari18

And, as a representative, if you are going to cut a group of players' compensation so significantly, wouldn't you engage the players first before signing any agreement?

Also, the new agreement impacts on non-playing squad members even worse.

Finally, how are these decisions made in relation to the WICB's claims of increased revenue?

Many questions left unanswered. More of a CYA and red herring letter than anything else.

You guys are writing with emotions rather seeking the facts. Bravo knew about the MOU deal but got blasted by others so he is now changing his story to make Wavell look bad. Based on Wavell response, under the new MOU, the WI senior players did not lose any substantial contract money, but their payments for matches were redistributed differently so they have to play more for WI vs. running off as free agents to the T20 competitions.

Is it a bad thing to give the local and regional cricketers more incentives at this time to develop future WI cricketers? The senior players are still earning significantly much more than the regional players and still not at par professionally in relation to other cricketing nations. Wavell is now been criticized for trying to balance out this disparity between regional and international players’ salaries. He rightly said in his letter, that the WIPA is for all WI cricketers and not only the senior players.

Bravo and other senior players knew about the new MOU deal and are now been hypocrites. The idea of not telling “all” players is rubbish since this was never done in the past and many professional associations, unions and organizations do allow a few associates to negotiate on behalf of its members. This is common a practice and the reason why you elect them in the first place.

In reply to ashnal

I am no fan of Hinds, but this has been what I have been working with in terms of information.

In reply to Commie

Isn't something wrong with this statement?

I think he should use ALL or 100%...who are the MINORITY that would not get representation?

In reply to ashnal


Maaaaan..... How you take so long to throw real light on this here darkness.



Welcome back!

In reply to ashnal

Quite true, but suppose these few associates decide that $10 a week is sufficient pay for the workers they represent, do they go ahead and sign an agreement without letting the members know they will be paid $10 a week?

Half truths don't cut it. Remember that.

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

You expect the International players to Cut down their salaries big time for the FC players...

I want to understand how much cut did the WICB staff and the WICB leadership have? How much of the so called increased revenue that WICB was supposed to get through the new Bilateral tour is apportioned towards the Players revenue?

If they had not contributed anything and you expect players to sacrifice.....What can I say

In reply to positiveg

If you read Wavel's statememt he clearly states that the Senior players were all for the sharing as long as WIPA puts enough effort to compensate the loss through other means...

But Wavell did not answer that question through his letter

In reply to ashnal

Crap

In reply to Pacy

But Pacy, that's what I'm saying too. He still has not answered the question but choose instead to get down personal with Bravo as well.

In reply to dcbreds

So he didn't know?

In reply to spider

The info will be out soon. Stay tuned.

Some people don't want to admit they're wrong or are unable to handle situations, so they create red herrings

In reply to dcbreds



A source told me that Hinds may have a credibility problem. Becos what players agreed on did not end up in the agreement

In reply to sudden

As I said, more to come. I've stayed away but I think I need to bring the info to the fore.

In reply to dcbreds

Then why not just bring it rather than threaten to bring it?

In reply to dcbreds

But who to blame is another issue

In reply to spider

I'm not threatening. I am sourcing it.

In reply to sudden

There's absolutely no doubt here. If you send me to negotiate and my final position will affect you in a very significant way, don't you think I need to get back to you to agree to the final terms and conditions?

In reply to dcbreds

generally speaking yes

In reply to sudden

No more income from sponsorship fees nor share of ICC tournament revenues.

In reply to dcbreds

So Hinds is lying about the meeting? Or are you saying that the arrangement unveiled at the meeting is different from the one they are arguing about now?

In reply to spider

Meetings have minutes. The truth shall set you free.

In reply to dcbreds

Hinds alluded to the minutes as well and promised to make them available. He would hardly do that if they didn't support his position.

In reply to spider

There was also a promise of some resolution, remember?

In reply to spider

Thee are understandings and misunderstandings

In reply to ashnal

Posters like you always interest me. I saw this name and thought "must be a newbie". instead, I find out you joined the same year as me, but with only a dribbling of posts! So you're a lurker then?