West Indies coach Phil Simmons has admitted he is "totally frustrated" by seeing West Indian cricketers light up the Big Bash League while his Test squad battles to be competitive. Simmons said it was up to the WICB to find a way to keep the region's best players and he cited the example of New Zealand, a team with similar resources but which has managed to retain its stars for Test cricket.

Jason Holder's young outfit collapsed to a three-day loss to Australia in the first Test in Hobart and they face the challenge of lifting themselves for the Boxing Day Test in Melbourne. Meanwhile, Andre Russell has been bowling with impressive pace for the Sydney Thunder, and Dwayne Bravo and Chris Gayle have turned out for the Melbourne Renegades, continuing their tour of domestic T20 tournaments.

"I'm totally frustrated," Simmons said. "It's enjoyable to see Andre Russell bowling at 140 clicks, and Bravo hitting three or four sixes, and Chris back in it. It is frustrating that we don't have them here playing the Test series.

read the full article at ESPNcricinfo

Sounds like he already fed up wid de wuk....

Better days are nigh, jus hang een Simmo

He thinks those named players are interested, hell no! Those guys are at a bigger trough. Moreover, West Indies cant afford prima madonnas

what happen to the gag order?

Tick tock.

Seems like Phil Simmons biggest coaching contribution so far is getting rid of Shiv and complaining.

the entire WI team went to see the stars play last night

Simmons as the HC, should have his players.
His job is on the line, if players fail.

Wonder if Ireland would have him back ?

Did he not know know before
He is fool

In reply to djdrastic

Ireland just opened arms to Boyd

why not Simmo?

In reply to carl0002

In reply to Kay

Typical Trini Tiney whinney

Clearly he doesn't want the job

IF SImmons think the T20 stars would actually help in test cricket then he is real dreamer and should be fired!

In reply to googley

You don't think Gayle is better than the openers we have now? maybe Russell could get a spot too?

Simmons is correct , and is also making sure that HE is absolved of any responsibility for the performances of
the Players in Australia .

People who are concerned about WI performance know that talented guys with experience matter. But some are wrong and strong

Yuh mean yuh didn't know that when you was talkin bout the boxing day test?

Lawd. This guy is turning out to be a real whiner.

I'll be amazed if he keeps this job for much longer.

FAIl Simmons is NOT, repeat NOT a broight chap. Big Bravo and Russel duh wan to play test cricket.

Come on! How surprised should we really be that a Trini whining and its not even Carnival.

sound like de man can't built a team..Ya ever hear an Ozzie coach bawling 'bout players who don't want play fi dem country? Simmons ain't the right coach for the West Indies.

How motivating is Simmonds to his present team, when he expresses opinions like that?

In reply to Kay

In reply to CaribbeanCricket.com

Which coach whines about not having certain players on his team? He shd make do with what he has and stop harping about those guys--We had those guys in the test team/ODI and it did not make one difference..We still lost.

In reply to Pacy

Your comment is very insightful .

'A coach should work with what he has'

Unbelievable
I can't decide if that is just bad mind or actual ignorance of sport

In reply to Halliwell

Reality--

What's the point of whining -So he should not work with the players he has on tour but lament that he is whining about two players that has never played tests cricket, one that does not want to play and one with a back problem..

In reply to Raggs... that's because those countries work it so that the players get both worlds.

Its hard for WICB to compete with those T20 league salaries. I dont think NZ cricketers make plenty more money that West Indies players, just that the kiwi players are more dedicated to their national teams.

Personally, i'm not blaming any cricketer who goes after the money because many of us leave our family at home and go abroad to make money, so why should cricketers be the exception? It's just a reality that West Indies will have to live with.

Now after the pay cut, where men use to get about US$17,000 per test match to about US$5,500 now, it would be even more harder to get them to play.

In reply to natty_forever

Do you really think some of those players would cut their T20 stint half way to come play for less money? Maybe easy for someone like Gayle in his day who would play in all formats. A guy like Russell who is usually the scapegoat, it would be best he stick to those T20 leagues for his best financial interest.

Ottis having a good laugh....

In reply to Larr Pullo

Who he larfing at ... Simmons?

The West Indies fought hard and long with players not wanting to release them for the IPL, and standing strongly creating a window.

It's pure irony that West Indies introduced their players to T20 cricket(via Stanford) long before other countries were playing T20 and also now have their own T20 league which they were willing to create a window.

It's hypocrisy.

All the WICB had to do was creating a T20 window.

The truth is we were the first to have a major T20 tournament, and then we did not want to accommodate players playing T20. So the players were forced to make a choice and they are no longer interested. Add to that the poor treatment of players who made the sacrifice to play for West Indies, but were discarded. It's an easy choice to make!

Please remember there is also no such thing as a West Indies country! The players also feel they are playing for the WICB and not the West Indies. So stop talking about loyalty. We are fortunate to be even able to still find players to play as the West Indies team.

The solution is a simple now as it was then. Just as FIFA has a window for national games, the ICC needs to do the same thing. There needs to be a season for professional games vs. tours.
Since ICC is controlled by the big boys, West Indies best solution is to create their own window and not schedule tours during IPL and their own T20 tournament.

This may be unpopular with some, but focus on limited overs cricket (one day and T20). It's not strategic to focus on test cricket as it's dying within the region, and is not marketable. No one shows up in the stands, and local TV no longer carries 5 days worth of cricket.

So play a few Test Matches outside of the window, and focus on T20s and ODIs, we are better than alot of countries in these formats, if we put the best players on field.

In reply to Larr Pullo

Whole world is laughing at WI and its administrative incompetence. That is even more visible than Otis laugh

In reply to jen

I don't think representing WI was ever a problem for wi players like bravo, Russel, Pollard and Gayle. It is the thing about ' WI First' where the players are expected to play FC cricket to be eligible for WI selection.

Those some of he changes that NZ did and they did not try matching T20 money.

If WICB says we are flexible wiht players with more than 100 odis or players with more than a specific average in the previous year players would reciprocate properly.

This WI first concept in today's scenario is stupid. English tried to fight T20 cricket since they have money, tradition and pull to attract talent around the world. WICB try to follow the same footsteps ( further intensified by the new WICB director) but does not have any of the positives that the English have.

In reply to buds

In reply to openning


They cannot make the test team..And Russell does not want to play test cricket--So what's the point in whining?

I want a Beetle to drive in NASCAR....Should the selectors give him( A Beetle) to play/race?

In reply to Pacy

True, WICB need to get rid of that stupid rule that you need to play in the first class competition. The biggest argument against that is that our first class tournament is so weak that it would be more beneficial for players to be playing overseas.

In reply to jen

Why not get rid of the entire FC tournament then?!?!?! Do y'all listen to yourselves?

In reply to buds

Dude what you want as a fan, and your wish as a Head coach of a team is far apart.
Just think you as the HC of Jamaica regional, would have played the don, it is that simple.

In reply to googley

In reply to buds

In reply to imusic


Russell
Simmons
Bravo
Pollard

In reply to imusic

Iyah, we not talking about lick it cricket? We are talking test cricket.

In reply to imusic

Can "they" make the test team? Absolutely.
Can "they" secure their place on the test team? I will leave that one up to you.

But their averages may not tell a pretty story.

In reply to buds

Yet they all have better FC and international batting averages than chandrika, shai hope, Carlos brathwaite etc

So if those players can make the test team, then your statement is illogical at best

In reply to imusic

After what sample data of games ? How did Gayle do after the same amount of games that Shai hope or Braithwaite have played ?

In reply to imusic

Most batsmen can swipe and make a good score-Does that mean he is Test material? Logic is not the only criteria that goes into selecting a player to play test cricket.

Test is the highest form of the game and the selectors should not use the lowest denominator to select a player for test..

In reply to buds

So that's why they only selected Donovan Pagon for 2 test matches.

Thanks for that insight

In reply to Pacy

guys stop the Bs, apart from Gaile, all the mentioned players were in the WI set up and their performance were weak

In reply to imusic

lol--The greatest batsman never to play for WI ...again--

That's why we are in the sorry state we find ourselves--When Don " Bradman Pagon " was kicking ass the got dropped. lol

Did somebody promise that these players would be available to play test cricket??

Russel bowling at 140...I have nuff respect for Russel's ability...but...what's the significance?? Can't Tino ...or Fidel bowl at 140??

I eh know....I have a feeling this job too big for Simmons.

In reply to tc1

I post the relevant stats on my thread. .. so you come hide over here to talk kak

Folks it's easy for nz to have an IPL window. It occurs in their off season.

Btw if you give an ipl window what about a big bash window and a ram slam window and a bangla window and a cpl window and a Pakistan window and an English window.

Where does it end and where will WI find space to play any other cricket?

In reply to Cheeks

You may be right , in your assessment ;
All along I have stated that Simmons had more cards to play than the WICBC
I honestly believed that .

Here is why I had that impression ,
the WICBC was in a Hole coming out of the India Saga which dented their already unpopular brand .

Simmons on the other hand was a successful Coach for Ireland , and in my opinion was in a position to do & get whatever he wanted . The onus was on him to inform his Employers that he was going to apply for the job , and get them to hold the door to his job ajar , in the event that he wanted his job back , a sort of sabatical

I am not privy to the negotiations
between Simmons & the WICBC ; but
I am of the belief that Simmons needed to get a very skilled Contract
Lawyer involved in his negotiations ,
from the very beginning .

He & the Lawyer put on paper precisely what HE wanted . If the key
things were not available to him , then walk away from the deal . Now
Simmons aint no GreenHorn he knew
exactly who he was dealing with Slippery Characters , Unfortunately
he not only played his cards wrong ;
the WICBC is going to put all the blame on him , while escaping serious
scrutiny themselves .

In reply to Larr Pullo

what is the big change. Even today none of them represent wi in FC cricket unfortunate they become ineligible to represent WI either.

This rule is something that had made players run away from WI cricket. May be we might still have had Russel and Simmons available for wi cricket

In reply to buds

In WI a player like Warner would have never seen whites because he started as a t20 player. Test cricket has come a long way and just in the first test wi went for 5 runs an over in the first innings with all crazy strokes in view. Your model test cricket has dead long back.

In reply to tc1

I will take the experience of bravo ( batting average of 31), Pollar, Simmons, Russel and hope investment on them would show better results than hoping some of the young guns would fire in another 5 years.

Not saying these young guns would or. One good but their place to learn in in the A team and not at international cricket.

In reply to Pacy

The fundamentals has not changed--That's the model I am talking about--You do not play swipe it cricket then go play tests--

You may make a few runs at first but then your lack of the fundamentals/technique becomes your constant/consistent failure.

One of the most important reason for WI problems is that they have no purpose to play for WI..Players talk about commitment but, how committed and purposeful are you in representing WI? Zilch, Nada..

I will be simple;

Family= Commitment/Purpose
Friends= ???

That's the over-riding fact that most do not get on this message board--For players playing for WI is like having a pick-up game..No purpose and no commitment--

Its beyond the confines of the square...The dynamic has shifted and WI is in perpetual flux.

In reply to Pacy

i somewhat agreed that experience is valuable, but these older guys are only 27 or 28 and never came on pitch ready to fire even 2 cylinders.
even with restructuring I do not see any immediate progress with WI on the field

[b]In reply to imusic[/
all of the players u mentioned made the team except Pollard, let me guess as a result of these great players the WI was ranked 1, 2 or 3.

simmons griping over Gayle but was ready to give Shiv the boot

some folks cannot be taken seriously...

In reply to buds

Gayle King of T20 made a 333 Test score.

We are living in the past to think cricketers must be one dimensional.

Dhoni, Kholi, Mcallum, Warner, Gayle are popular t20 players and excelled in Test cricket.

Please West Indians, stop thinking like your part of the English colony and stuck in their ways that cricketers can only excel in one form of the game.

Chanderpaul has an ODI average over 40 and a strike rate over 70, 11 centuries and 59 half centuries. Yet some would say he was only good enough for tests.

Our failure has a lot to do with the mindset of the WICB, which is replicated in the minds of the past players, journalists and fans alike who still cannot evolve to embrace the modern game.

Only in the West Indies do we think we cannot have one player who is good a both T20 and Test cricket. Please check South Africa, Australia, New Zealand and India tests teams and you will realize that the majority play T20 and are good at it.

In reply to doosra

In reply to openning

you miss the point as usual...

it's not a case for Shiv

In reply to doosra

What point have I missed?
Simmons as the new head coach wanted to talk to the T20 club players, he did that.
Shiv was not going to be part of his group going forward, we fans want to make a decision for a guy, who is in his first year, as a head coach.
As managers, we all had to make tough decisions, let Phil make his,by working with all players.

In reply to don1

Gayle made his 333 in test before he became a T20 Star--My point is that a player has to be fundamentally sound in technique and temperament to play both formats of the game--Not many players are like Gayle.None of the other players would be successful at test because they are weak in technique and temperament.

You cannot put the cart before the horse--

In reply to buds

How u explain David Warner and Ashwin?

In reply to buds

Gayle made big runs even before T20 cricket was around. Just shows that he has a unique technique but that is no reason to say he is just a sniper.

Dwayne bravo was taking wickets and scoring runs in the test and limited over format even before T20. He may not be as good as the great allrounder of this era like Kalis but His record was on par with any international allrounder in longer and odi cricket

Pollard started as a t20 specialist but he was keen to be a Odi player and developed to a level where he could score centuries Against strong opposition

Simmo and Russell have their own strengths.

While Hope, Chandrika, Blackwood, dowrich might develop into good players down the line playin all of them is hoping for a miracle.

More than experience I am just missing their confidence and intent from the young guys. All the star players have rubbed shoulders with the best in the world and can see eye to eye any player. Be it starc or steyn or Kohli. You don't win without an attitude and their attitude is something that can give that spark on the field.

The young guys as nice they are, just seem to be the lambs to slaughterhouse since they know they are young and even their own board has said results do not matter. All they hope is for Devine miracle one day where they could do well. That is unfortunate for he young guys confidence

In reply to imusic

Were they playing T20 before Tests?
Gayle is unique.A player like him comes around once in 50 years. WI players lack the requisite skill set to perform at the highest level when transitioning from Lick It Cricket to Tests . And to maintain the basics fundamentals and be consistent. In test bowlers examine your technique. And that's where they fail consistently..

I see it all the time with our players. He makes a good score at first(Then the whole message board go berserk)-After the next test they start blaming the Administration(laugh)..lol..

In reply to buds

Isn't that the same for all the batsmen from our first class set up? Who are the technically would players in wi who are better?

In reply to openning

so is Gayle a part of the test future going forward?

man u really slow

In reply to Pacy

Gayle is a unique player. So lets forget about Gayle.

The others like I said are mediocre players and worse at tests--They are stars at T20 and rightly so. They get the treatment that star players should get but, it gets to their heads then they blame the WICB for any perceived infringement --You can be a part of the solution or part of the problem. In most cases the players are the problem.

Rubbing shoulders with the best players in the world is great but, if our players are not soaking up knowledge what good is it? Worse yet if they cannot articulate and express what they have learnt from those players and pass it on to our younger guys what's the use? Have you ever heard our players speak or try to make a complete sentence that makes sense? Even a Kindergarten kid speak better than most of them..
I am grateful for the younger guys--I wish them all the best..


Merry X-Mas to you bro..

In reply to tc1

In reply to Pacy

In reply to buds

A pointless exercise which demeans the young players he is tasked with instilling confidence in.

Simmons having spent the very first part of his tenure getting rid of one of the veterans of the team who had Test pedigree simply to protect his compatriots record is now crying for mediocre players in the main to make WI better.

You couldn't script this better.

In reply to Commie

a suh mih seet

strange happenings, very strange

In reply to Commie

When a series of no names like Richards, bascombe, Anthony Martin etc paraded as international player you had no concern.

But concerned when Simmons " calls for the stars" because that is agains the script of the men in power. To garner support just throw in the regional flavour inspite of the fact he is also speaking for Russel and Gayle too. Love the agenda

In reply to Pacy

You ain't tired talk volumes of heaping dung.

None of these players have any history of mentoring anyone but their own checkbooks. So what is their use to this group of players.

The average sports fan understands why people for example want to see Kobe Bryant even in the dying embers of his career but they recognize he has no value towards their team winning.

The irony is that both Pollard and Gayle are hobbled. Not that they have any value to the prospects of this team.

Grow up and move on.

In reply to Commie

In reply to openning

What the hell are you talking about. He took the job knowing what the selection process is like.

He knew his say wasn't the only say. What I am questioning is the stupidity of getting rid of the veteran committed Test player best suited to be with this team and then complaining about the absence of players who haven't committed to Test cricket for years upon years.

Look..best Simmons collect his check and stfu.

In reply to Commie

In reply to Commie

In reply to Commie

In reply to openning

The role of the coach viz a vis the selectors is well known. It is majority rule. Simmons used it as his FIRST agenda to get rid of the most experienced Test player. In fact informed him via whatsapp that he should just retire basically as he had no intention of picking him. How is that for decisive.

When the process was flipped on him he cried wolf as if he didn't know that is how it works.

Left to me I'd give him whatever he wanted and watch him find new excuses but I'm not his employer.

All he is doing is just blowing bubbles at this point.

In reply to Pacy

You are clueless.

They couldn't help WI win when they were in their playing primes so what is the value of them now ?

Make us competitive ?

Again the irony of dropping WI best and most experienced Test bat and then declaring the difference between winning and losing are players like Pollard.

If that isn't insanity I'm not sure what is.

Alyuh really think Simmons want big Bravo and Pollard in the team. He is just making that call to prepare his smokescreen for failure. He could always tell them he didn't get the players he wanted although everybody and their momma know that those players can't help the team at this stage....

In reply to Commie

I know it would be clueless for people who know nothing beyond power and hierarchy.

I would take Simmons, Pollard. Russel and Bravo in the Limited overs Squad ahead of Most of the new players selected.

I would select Bravo and Simmons in tests ahead of most batsmen being selected.

Unlike you I dont expect 1 player to win matches and even the great Lara could not win many. It needs eleven good players. If you select the best players you have then you can fill in the gaps. Only stupids will drop the better players and try finding new eleven every series. But cant expect any better from WICB and its supporters.

Over to Second Test. Bye