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Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

From the Gleaner

In reply to Chrissy

why is it that Ja like to use the military for civilian operations?

In reply to sudden

Because they think force works and never ever learn. Watched the press conference - they're searching everyone including media peeps. Taxis off the road - total chaos as could have been anticipated.

They can kiss the tourist season goodbye because when they search the first tourist dat will be dat.

On the other hand I'm sure the State Department is already telling dem peeps to stay away.

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This sudden urgency is because a tourist bus was grazed in the AK47 shootout a few days ago.

Jamaica does not have an adequate number of police personnel, so the military is used to supplement police personnel and is often under the command of the police. The command may be different under a state of emergency.

how about increasing police numbers and paying them well?

There should always be a S of E in hotspots at certain times.

In reply to Chrissy

So very sad to hear. For such a beautiful country, with so much to offer to be tarnished like this. It saddens me greatly because i have had such fabulous times visiting the last four years.

In reply to NYCGURU

Yep - not to mention the violations of human rights that will take place.

oh boy whey bravos

In reply to Chrissy

What in your opinion are the solutions to solve this problem?

In reply to sudden

Apparently a lot of the police are the gunmen as well. Sad!

In reply to NYCGURU

In reply to birdseye

Its like Therapy for the soul. I went twice last year. For the Pakistan test and then October for the 45 and over Masters tournament.Its such a cool experience, we are already planning for October. Negril and Portland i simply cant get enough of.

In reply to NYCGURU

I actually have been to Portland more than all the other spots these past few years. Haven't been for some time because with so much rain the roads are a mess.

In reply to Chrissy

I try to balance it as much as possible,and see as much of the country as I can. Portland I want to do again, Negril is a must and while there,Zimbali retreat in Little London is a treat for dinner. The couple a dread lady who is married to a white guy from Chicago are warm and engaging and the food is prepared in front of you, and is great. Most of the games I attend are the ones played at Melbourne,and the final is usually played at the Jerk center in Discovery bay. I actually met Mr Holding two of the last three years and he was very cool. I pray for better and peaceful times.

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/article/lead-stories/20180119/finally-st-james-residents-welcome-state-emergency

High drama unfolded on Codac Street shortly before midday when a 15-year-old boy, who has been implicated in several shootings and murders, including the recent incident in the vicinity of the Sangster International Airport, was apprehended in a building, where a search had been previously conducted but yielded nothing.

15 years old, Lord Have Mercy.

In reply to nitro

wow! 15?

tell me something mate, why dont you and other like-minded JAs from the US, who know how to run governments/ cities like the Republicans in the US, go back to Ja and run tings?

In reply to sudden

I discussed it once with a frien employed to a government agency in the 90s but fled to this country when a huge scandal broke.

The reasons he gve for escaping Jamaica turned me off as i value my life.

In reply to nitro

understood but if all good and true men are fearful and leave what will become of your homeland?

In reply to sudden

The police force and justice system needs a complete overhaul.

http://www.nber.org/digest/jan03/w9061.html

In reply to sudden

The politicians are just as corrupt. It would be interesting if these guys were taught ethics at all.

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/latestnews/PSOJ_supports_state_of_emergency_in_St_James_?profile=1228

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/state-of-public-emergency-timely-8212-owen-ellington_122923?profile=1373

In reply to Chrissy

Holne ss government has allowed the crime in montego Bay to spiral out of control.

Lottery scammers are now armed and out of control.

When I lived in montego Bay in the 1990s when the murder rate for st James reached 25 it was considered way too high.

Last year it was 335!

The SoE was one of the lead items on BBC Breakfast news at 9:00 this morning. Lots of people trying to get refunds for their pre-booked holidays but the travel companies have Terms and Conditions that protect them against having to refund without penalties for the customers.

In reply to Superfly

Yep they can kiss the winter tourist season goodbye and the problem is that most tourists land in Mobay.

In reply to mikesiva

Correct is right - but remember now they won the West which matters more than everything else.

Folks like Esther Figueroa have been warning these people for years = watch Jamaica for Sale. Add the Lorrery Scam to that mix (and never forget Stonecrushers) and this is what we get.
Lots of folks forget that the shooting started among their supporters at the pre-election rally in Sam Sharp Square. They are clueless.

In reply to mikesiva


Soon things will be under control...likkle more time for the Holy one.

In reply to BeatDball

If all dem warnings from foreign governments were taking place under di adda party, there would be hell to pop right in dis back room.

In reply to Chrissy

The life of the rational human animal is indivisible. This being so, the person’s life must be treated individually, rather than in the collective. Sadly, politicians do not support the view of the indivisibility of the person’s life; instead, the all-encompassing belief of politicians is the greatest good for the greatest number of their citizens. The historical dustbins are filled with the consequences of this motive: Vietnam War; Battle of Dieppe; Death of Philosophy; Nubian Sacrifice for the Pyramids; Stalinism…

Armed with the utilitarian belief, hypothetically, it could be the case that the Government of Jamaica deliberately took the decision to stand idly by, while criminals carried out their murderous rampage, in order to gain societal support to unleash the army upon its people as its main tool to curb the murder rate.

In reply to Hanover

Don't rule that out although I suspect fear of what's coming - the vanishing tourist would have been a bigger factor. Don't forget this came up in 2016.
What is more frightening is that the people support the violation of their own basic freedoms.

In reply to Hanover
It would appear successive governments have been standing idly by for almost three decades. The statistics indicates that the murder rate in Jamaica has been on the increase since 1989. It dipped slightly after the country made a similar move in Kingston in 2010.

The problem as I see it cannot just be laborites killing each other as one poster seeks to imply but Jamaica is one S Hole full of criminals and a lot of indiscipline people.

If you look at other ills in that society such as the high rate of carnage on the roads, low compliance in payment of taxes and rampant corruption everywhere including government and private sector, you will see a set of people lacking basic human decency.

In reply to sudden

In reply to XDFIX

All the armies in the English-speaking Caribbean are loyal to outside interests - that's why.

In reply to Chrissy

what does that mean?

This what I don’t understand. Why are people against the SOE?

It is crazy the level of violence that is going on in Jamaica. People bawl everyday about it. Initiative after initiates are announced, Zoso, being the most recent. That didn’t work just like all before.

The only thing left was the SOE, yet that appears to be a problem for some people. From what I hear, the people of Montego Bay have welcomed this move. They are tired of the violence.

It was the last resort because North America already issued travel warnings before SOE was declared so the tourism industry was already smashed. Nothing to lose.

In reply to Chrissy

Maybe, the Jamaica Government is seeing it for what it is not: a civil war. Daily you hear the thinkers promulgating a war against crime. Yet they fail to understand one of the fundamental elements of war; that of knowing your enemy. With this “war against crime”, coupled with the crippling effect of terror, supposedly, people are prepared to accommodate the violation of their own basic rights. It is one thing when your rights are violated by your neighbour, but when they are violated by agents of the state...

In reply to nitro

In reply to XDFIX

But you must remember that, in the main, the Jamaican army was established to kill black people in Jamaica and protect the plantocracy.

In reply to Hanover

Well said bro

In reply to Hanover

Have you visited Jamaica recently?

In reply to nitro

In reply to Hanover

He won't answer

[b]In reply to Hanover

The next time you visit:

1. Get pulled over by the cops
2. Import something and deal with the custom officers yourself.
3. Take taxis that should hold 4 passengers.
4. Visit a high school, like Ruseas in your parish and note the actiions of both teachers and students.
5. Walk the streets as a tourist and not the constant begging/harrassment.
6. Note the actions of reckless drivers when they 'bad drive you' and you point out their errors.
7. Wear your best clothes and watch how quickly women approach you to take their young 'virgin' daughters.
8. The glorification of lewd lyrics by the society including playing the music of an incarcrated murderer.

That is nothing compared to the obviously low value placed on life. The muder rate, the carnage on the roads and the scamming in every segment of the population.

In reply to nitro

Good post nitro.

In reply to Hanover

Rasta?

In reply to nitro

All valid points - now let us discuss how we reached here.

In reply to nitro

Again, you have catalogued a myriad of issues. Nonetheless, you have not explained why the people are lacking in basic human decency. If you create the social conditions and put the people in those conditions, and the people behave accordingly, how then can you accuse the people of behaving inconsistent to the conditions that you have created? If we are being kind to the discussion at hand, we can apply a posteriori approach and use the very issues you have listed and see if the people are lacking in basic human decency.

In reply to Drapsey

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

You know, in 18Th century, in England, they used to hang people for picking pockets. During that time, the common man existed in squalor and poverty; it was the common man who, most often, used to engage in the act of picking pockets. One can well imagine that the act of picking pockets were deemed to be done because the people – the common man – were lacking in human decency. Naturally, of course, it is easier to conclude on the basis of symptoms, rather than applying an if, then if, conditionality, approach.

In reply to Hanover

But it is way more than that - in all our non-urban centres, folks used to plant food and eke out a subsistence existence. Then came the great Reagan/Thatcher new world order, neo-liberalism on steroids.

All preferential arrangements were kicked out of the window - we devalued, deregulated and divested.
We started importing what we once grew and kicked our own folks out of business on orders from outside.

So they found their own 'hustles'.
We treated them like crap - no water, no sewage and expected them to continue di yes sah, no sah madness of subservience. This while they lived as squatters for a tourist industry that built magnificent hotels for guests and no homes for locals who worked in them.

We cut resources from our schools and everything else that matters while we paid off the debts for all sorts of crap we were told we had to have.

Di only thing locals are running is rackets. International agencies ensure that our treasury is owned and controlled by foreign banks. Ask Haiti what they did to them and then watch di ride.

And as long as di 'so called educated' sons and daughters of our poor, working class and peasantry get to drive dem fancy cars and live in big houses, they don't give a damn.

Di world is now a global society of vultures. Everyone preys on everyone and then di worst hypocrites pray for their tithe.

There is no society in vast sections of this planet. It is one unregulated market of 'tiefing' winners and vast numbers of losers.

In reply to Hanover

In reply to Chrissy

In reply to Hanover

And the solution is to shoot and kill the men every time - now they've reached the teenage boys.

Meanwhile their immediate victims - their own folks - cheer on the police because they can't take the slaughter and criminality and just want it to stop. Some know that elements of said babylon are di biggest criminals in the area.

In reply to Chrissy

True, true. In no uncertain way, the way of Luther reigns supreme. Luther claims that [governments and the elites] should embrace a culture of impunity in their killing of the common man – just kill the common man without consternation: "To kill a peasant is not murder; it is helping to extinguish the conflagration. Let there be no half measures! Crush them! Cut their throats! Transfix them! Leave no stone unturned! To kill a peasant is to destroy a mad dog!"

In reply to Hanover

It's the only model they know.

In reply to Chrissy

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Hope not that bad
we (Caribbean Utilites Corporate Comms Managers) have our yearly training there. I guess most likely will be in some place far away from the fray.
But it's really sad when i was driving to work this morning and listening the news and hearing about the SOE in St. James. Was like wow
I've seen a few vids on FB of army vehicles driving in some village. and I'm like wow. like the scene out of a movie.

In reply to positiveg

All kind of innocents detained as well. Glad to see the lawyers speaking out demanding due process.

In reply to nitro

Concrete human existence, my fiend.

So we going to lament and discuss at length what cause the problem, meanwhile the problem continues.
No solutions and when there is one, it is a problem within itself.
It will never end.
Tell the people of Jamaica that finality so that they stop thinking there is a solution.

Link TextIn reply to Hanover

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In reply to nitro Hmmmm....but, but, but Nitro the truth hoits - we don't want to hear it. Didn't you know that?!

In reply to nitro
There is a video in circulation that shows the madhouse after the shooting at the funeral, which resulted in the death of one man. On the evidence of that video (assuming you have seen the video), do you think that it is a gunman who is responsible for the shooting?

In reply to Hanover

Have not seen the video but in Jamaica it appears the police officers and the gunmen are the same.