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Set to open sometime this summer after many delays... freaking amazing!!!!

Engineering wonder

In reply to Kay

McGA

In reply to Kay

How long will it last??

In reply to maj

The projected lifespan is 120 years …..

Amazing! I will have some of my staff look at this 30-min video.

References to planning challenges (different local standards, traffic mobility, environmental issues, etc), construction challenges, operational challenges, etc, show similarity to challenges faced by engineering in the US.

The difference is probably in the funding and political motivation.

Lots of engineering wonders out there, but they have been appearing mostly outside the US in recent decades.

Thanks, Kay.

In reply to Kay

Hmmmm??

In reply to Kay

And I thought New York's Tappan Zee Bridge was impressive.

In reply to maj

The way I read this is that you feel China goods don't last.

The Great Wall has been around for 2300+ years.

You may be fooled to think that China only manufactures "cheep goods, that don't last".

That is not the case. China can manufacture to any engineering specifics. We in the West have an appetite for cheap and abundant, which China is happy to accommodate. Goods in China are manufactured for Apple, Google, BMW.... the pinnacles of manufaturing... yet most consumers only see the cheep toy that last 4 weeks after Christmas.

Please don't be duped to believe China ONLY produces inferior products. They are the global GIANT of manufacturing at all standards.

In reply to pelon

Left dem bro.

China used a lot of Engineering knowledge from Canada.
Stantec, SNC were the consultants.
SNC was also involved in the The Three Gorges Dam in China.

The Confederation Bridge

Confederation Bridge Construction ENG

[b]In reply to pelon

Some projects in China has come under scrutiny for the lack of QA/ QC practices and some of their buildings collapse as a result of inadequate peer review and construction methods, let hope that that have learned from past problems.

This is a great feat of engineering and should be around for many years.

In reply to sgtdjones


The cost of 1B seems very low for a construction of a bridge this magnitude, I know of Stantec , what SNC stands for.

China have the money to spend!

The paint on that alone is more than T&T national budget lol

In reply to problemjay

In reply to tc1

A brief synopsis on SNC

Stantec has an office in Barbados




Its a private funded entity that will be owned for 35 years

No cost overrun , plus National Research Council in Ottawa,
supplied the data to engineers they built a model and simulated ice , hurricane and winter conditions in its Labs. NRC is a Government entity.

In reply to sgtdjones

Thanks.

If Stantec is base in Bim , why is the South coast sewage still exist ,Stantec would have solve this problem.

Use Stantec for environmental and surveying recently , they brought out Vollmer Eng(NY)

In reply to tc1

Link Text

will you trust the grade of bolt in a shear load situation?

maybe a "share load" situation

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan

thanks, for SNC legal problems

we need to do more 3rd party testing on all materials, at the site many A/E specify testing 10% of the bolts.

In reply to tc1

SNC was part of the team , the bridge still stands
withstanding horrid winter conditions in the Northumberland Strait.

The legal problems are all finished , the individuals were all dismissed with new ethical practices in place and new management team. This had nothing to do with supplying services during the construction of the megaproject.

In reply to Drapsey

That bridge is a joke for the amount of money they spent. Bumpy like any tertiary road in JA.

In reply to tc1

SNC is notorious for corruption and bid rigging in india, libya and canada. The one who brags about knowing masonry and general trowel work post a glowing review of SNC....
Omitting their customary
"facilitation payments" like -pay for a friedrice and 2 carib.

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan

Man you are getting worked up over those false claims by the plagiarist and liar in chief? SNC and Stantec had nothing to do with the new China bridge.

See HERE for a list of all the consultants and contractors for each stage of the project

In reply to Kay

Did the Chinese tell you before they started what they did
and whom they consulted?

Did they tell you why they visited the Confederation bridge and met with its consultants?

Did they tell you why the went to NRC in Ottawa to see the testing of the Confederation Bridge.

The Chinese want to show its their masterpiece , they are known to steal technologies and use it as their own.

Since you know nothing about the above, I will let you keep braying.

In reply to sgtdjones

Aah … STFU. I only deal in facts. Post anything you can find to substantiate all that drivel you just posted. You not tired of lying through your nose day in and day out and getting found out.

From a chemical engineer you now morph into a structural engineer and consultant …. if a laff!!!!

In reply to Kay


I posted questions for you that you cannot answer but you deal in facts? So you dont know but post facts...

You are accusing me.

When ever profanity comes into play it shows a loser.

Like I said keep braying

In reply to sgtdjones

Questions I can't answer... steeeups!!! Why would the Chinese tell me anything when they provided a detailed account for the general public to see? They are the ones investing $20B not me ….

In reply to Kay

We are speaking of technology and research, who cares what dollars they invested.They didn't have the means to build that bridge without help.

Who do you think they came to, Canada, but this is beyond you .

Like I said , keep braying as you criticize without facts

In reply to sgtdjones

Again here are the FACTS

You are stuck in a lie once again and trying to wiggle out with a heap of smilies

In reply to Kay

I was not trying to say snc or stantec wer involved in the china bridge....was responding to sj name dropping. I suspect he may work for one of those company as a slump test consultant.

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan

No, I do not work for any of the companies mentioned.

In reply to sgtdjones

Ok..I tried years ago to get in, everybody wanted to get in due to the size of projects secured.

In reply to Dan_De_Lyan

Check out Aecon, they have billions in projects especially
for Ontario Hydro at Pickering.

But I dont know your area of expertise.

In reply to sgtdjones

You always have to get into pointless fights concerning one's professional status, don't you? Many a good discussion wind up being a cuss out or get sidetracked, as a result.

Despite hiring overseas consultants, most of the work and leadership for large projects are done by locals, in both western and eastern developed countries. No single country has a monopoly on any particular construction technology, equipment, area of expertise, etc.

The grunt work in this humongous Chinese project, for example, is being done entirely by locals, while all the materials are local. All the funding is also coming from the Chinese themselves. The monetary value of the work done by all those big name consultants you like to bandy about is very likely less than 5 percent of the total project.

One may argue that the role of overseas consultants in projects in large Asian and Eastern European countries like China and Russia is important, but to imply that they are essential to project execution, because "Canada has the technology", etc, is pure hogwash. These countries have built most of their large local projects entirely by themselves, without any overseas input whatsoever.

The Dragon has all the superlatives...largest dam, longest bridge, tallest building, etc. Are they really going to ascend above uncle Sam? Know a lot of peeps are secretly gleeful...yet they are in the West living a happy & glad life. Facting hypoorcretens.

In reply to Norm

I dont cuss I wasn't brought up that way.Show me where I start such Fights.

Your post about is a long wrangling diatribe of things I haven't mentioned. Reread, and you will see I just mentioned consultants nothing was mentioned about who constructed the bridge, nor the monetary value to consultants.I see why posters are calling you a know it all.

I post on a thread, if I know something about the gist of the topic,or I ignore such postings.I am not the one who starts name calling, so get your facts before you call me out.

As i was saying...Copying the achievements of others on a larger scale.

I sense a lot of jealousy of Chinese achievements by our forum members residing in America. Ah wonder why

In reply to problemjay

I am not jealous of China.

Look at your NAPA in Port Of Spain and You will see a similar one
in Great Britain Built before the Chinese constructed the one in Port Of Spain.

They are great at copying.

In reply to sgtdjones

dum dum you exposed yourself as a simpleton once again

unless you built the very first bridge in the world then you must have copied and learned from another

In reply to problemjay

Dimwit they didn't build the first one !!!

The first one eh.





Doh worry , ah jest learned ya

In reply to sgtdjones

You sound like some American news analysts conspiracy theorists. "Look at this Americans! Another country has a bridge in similar length and color and shape so they stole from America" fix your bias and come again

In reply to problemjay

The issue is not that this is not an amazing feat. The idea is that this is some engineering breakthrough because it is humongous.

In engineering the manner of construction is the key, not size. Every single manufacturing and engineering tech used on that project had already been applied elsewhere.

Its akin to a World full of deisel trucks, you taking that concept to adapt an engine for speed with a revolutionary engine and transmission, unitbody, aerodynamics and comfort. Fitting a 10 gallon tank because your only use is to race it dragster style. Then i decide to use it for driving miles and fit a 25 gallon tank and acting like i revolutionized the car.

Except in this case the people who seek to elevate one Nation or people above another doing the extolling here.

There are some here who are itching to declare China as the eventual Savior of mankind, for whatever reason. They seek these anedotal stuff to try and furnish that thought. Not lost is the fact they are using the Chinese propaganda machine to carry that mantra.

In reply to Ayenmol

I see the Chinese propaganda machine no different from the American propaganada machine (for example CNN, FOX News). Sure you smart enough to know the American propaganda machine will always seek to create and prop a narrative that is pro American and anti Chinese or anti Russian knowing these nations are America's main rivals in the world today. Most times the American media don't even push their Govt to provide proof to support anti-Chinese rhetoric, just expect the world to trust in so called intelligence, well the Chinese are now doing the same. I see it as a level playing field. So save all the details for someone who do not know better

In reply to problemjay

You left out Hollywood. Other than that you are very right...so why engage in the same nonsensical exercise when you already seen the outcome?

In reply to problemjay

Oh and by the way, the tech that allows mankind to build these types of structures today did not come from Bridge construction in itself. It came from offshore rigs.

Implicit in all the arguments against the notion that the Chinese have built an engineering marvel here, is that the Chinese are intrinsically inferior to Europeans.

Ah, well. I guess it is ok for Europeans to be superior to some folks!

In reply to Norm

Ah shut up!

In reply to Ayenmol

In reply to Ayenmol

I think you could do better.

In reply to sgtdjones

I know you can't do better!

In reply to Norm

Quite frustrating that some people see life through a single myopic lens.

according to the video i saw the Chinese did not have to build the varied forms of the project , tunnel, bridge due to any necessarily insurmountable physical issue, they just wanted to do it.

In reply to Ayenmol

Is this based on some sort of evidence in the present context?


(1) They were trying to reduce the travel time between Hong Kong and Macau from 3 hours to about 1 hour, and reduce the accompanying congestion on adjoining streets. Congestion reduction not only saves time and fuel, it also reduces air pollution.

Thus, the Chinese did not do this project because "they just wanted to do it".

(2) They had to include the tunnel section near Hong Kong because of height restrictions for buildings in the flight path of aircraft using the nearby Hong Kong airport.

BTW, congestion relief IS the reason for roadway expansion or extension anywhere in the world. Rehabilitation projects tend to not include expansion or extension. So, the Chinese are doing something any other nation would do, if they had the political will and funding.

Are you critical of this Chinese project because they are Communist?

In reply to Norm

Like someone said you know everything man. I dont.

In reply to Norm

Am not critical of the Chinese. Am critical of the fawning over a project that simply copied other projects done around the World to a ridiculous degree.

Because of the tech used here the size of this project is almost negligible.

It is like linking garden hoses.


This project is a mock up of the Denmark-Sweden Orunde project....down to the reason given for transitioning from bridge to tunnel.

Great project. But am not going to act like this is engineering genius when it copies a project from a much smaller and less industrious land.

Thanks for the lesson on congestion relief. I was not referring to that .

By the way. How many countries would spend that kind of coin for such an expansive project?

Never mind. You answered the question. This has more to do with Politics and the Chinese continuing to amass Political clout in developing Nations by building infrastructure while mainly using their workers.

They continue to give people fish rather than teach them to, while they steal fishing manuals from others and try to thump their chest because theirs is larger.

In reply to Ayenmol

Come on, man. What cutting edge technology went into the Great Wall of China? Isn't it a marvel mainly because of its size? Doesn't size present its own big challenges too?


The Chesapeake Bay Bridge, completed about 50 years ago, is probably the earliest major bridge to combine elevated and subterranean structures. In general though, successful civil engineering concepts are copied and improved upon all the time, almost without intellectual rights issues. The civil engineering field has historically progressed by sharing ideas, because of the need for public accountability.


Any evidence to support this? I suspect this is your real beef - mankind creating wonders through their own efforts.

In reply to Kay

I have driven over some amazing bridges, but none struck me as much as the Vasco da Gama Bridge leading into Lisbon. Not even the San Francisco bridge grabbed me as much.

In reply to Norm

If your baseline for measuring engineering advancement is the stone age, then more power to you.

Today it's all about intellect. While many old techniques are improved upon, many new and advanced procedures are meticulously researched and adapted by very smart people to result in a vast array of engineering first never before dreamt of, much less attempted.
In constructing a large building, you need to make certain major adjustments to compensate for the weight, load and various natural forces. Thus one cannot simply build a building larger than their counterpart using the same blueprint. Particularly when building vertically.

However this particular bridge building advancement, as it's horizontal, is different...you simply keep adding pieces like a building block.
Little additional technological or engineering advancement is necessary beyond the land survey.

To put it bluntly, building a bridge now is like building a basic road...do you want to go measure roads to see who has built the longest?

But you seem determined to try and convince me this is some never before seen marvel...did the Chinese steal the great wall idea too? Is it their take on the Pyramids?

Good day to you sir.

In reply to Ayenmol

When the Great Wall was built, the best available construction and management technologies at the time were no doubt employed. So too, today's marvels could be considered primitive in the future, but hopefully they will be smarter then to understand that each generation uses the resources of its time.



Be careful. You are implying that the people of old were not intelligent. That could be pretty bad for you in other discussions here.



True. There are limits imposed by materials, construction equipment, environment, etc. Modern computing power has helped to consider more variables, and reduce safety factors associated with materials, environmental forces, etc.

The tallest buildings, for example, have benefited from both scale and computer-based mathematical modelling, to better understand stress distribution from applied standard and site-specific loads.



This Chinese bridge utilizes "cable stay" technology to support the deck for unusually large spans. One specific and rather unique challenge was the slenderness of the central column(s) on which the cables converged. A scale model of the bridge was tested in a wind tunnel to seen how such a slender support column would perform in the typhoons that occur here.

Another challenge, related to bridge deck support system, was the deflection of the end of the partially supported decks, as each unique and heavy section was lifted into place. With 2 or 3 lanes in each direction, this may be the widest structure of this type. Some of those sections weighed 300 tons.

The wide decks and bridge resonance frequency made the wind forces here a special problem. This was addressed by allowing the wind to pass between the two decks, one for each direction, in a special pattern. The decks were shaped like airplane wings to reduce wind drag. That shape poses special fabrication and construction challenges.

With cable-suspended ("suspension") bridges, you don't just "add pieces like a building block". The support system has to be very precisely customized for site conditions.



Just like performing brain surgery via YouTube videos, right?



Did I say that somewhere? Anyway, I do consider this to be another of mankind's civil engineering marvels, and a testimony to mankind's capacity for progress without apparent limit.


Darn. I am disappointed.

Larr, Bravos or Black would have engaged this with less dejection!

you mean like the early intelligent surgeries performed during the stone age that was built upon?

Your other rebuttal regarding the structure, again negligible...wind tunnel is used in designing cars, boats, etc. and have been in use for bridge construction for decades!


You do realize that only a small section of the bridge is suspension? Right?

BTW, i wonder if Hong Kongers are as enthusiastic as their Beijing counterparts.

lastly. I do not debate to prove i can debate, but to make a point. Am happy to not be included in with the above posters who love to hear themselves talk.

I can dissect any argument and attack points in a vacuum...buty like bridge construction, or any construction these days, eventually these arguments have to be placed together to form a coherent thought...

In reply to Ayenmol

Why you beating up on one of the know it all experts of this forum.

Take it easy on him nah.Your common sense in this debate has destroyed him.

He now will get one of he staff to do some research.

In reply to sgtdjones

The project has been completed since November 2017...They yet to open it! I cant find any confirmation that it opened to the Public on July 1st.

Cinese Government themselves scared of the bridge!

I guess i gotta wait till midnight since he in China...


When you awake from your Eastern slumber...

The longest Cable-Stay span of the Hong Kong–Zhuhai–Macao Bridge is 480m.

Here's the Longest Cable-Stay bridge in the World...1900+m!

It was completed 20 years ago...and did not take another year to open to traffic!

Also see...Lake Pontchatrain...Highway 1 to the Keys. Built with less injury, loss of life and without the tech of today...and most of that chinese project uses that roadway tech with the newer anchoring technologies that allow for deeper platforms.

In reply to Ayenmol

Btw ...I noticed they did not use Tetrapods....interesting.