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Base on what we all see and hear,the players don't need to work on their game if they know that they will be selected.The way a player improves is when he knows that his spot is in jeopardy.Let us look at the 5 batsmen in this team to India, how many has improve since the England test? What criteria is there to replace them or give them ultimatum? I am not calling any name, but it is time to change the policy.These batsmen CANNOT play on different condition or surface, it shows up every time.There are not two players in this team that can play spin successfully in the sub-continent. I could go on...i rest my case.

In reply to Philjam
They say the strenght of any team is the quality of its reserves.
So who are the quality reserves that are pushing the incumbents.
Do we have 5 batsman making loads of runs in regional or A team cricket to replace the 5 already in India.

In reply to Redstar

Darren Bravo.

He hasn't played the longer format in a while but he would immediately add experience and quality to the middle-order.

Also, Blackwood does give his wicket away carelessly, but if those current incumbents aren't making runs then you have to consider the gamble of playing Blackwood.

3. Bravo
4. Blackwood/Hope
5. Chase

In reply to Redstar...hence, stick with the "DINOS" and let the upstarts work for it, while you offer them opportunities to play cricket. This is where the coach is needed. A team and below.

...also need to change the development policy. How many West Indian cricketers play 14-16 FC games before they are 19?

In reply to Philjam

There is no experience to guide promising young men like Hope, Hetmeyer and Ambris... They have to learn on the job which has been the unfortunate situation of WI.

I see the flashes of brilliance and inconsistency among these new kids just like I saw in the young Wavel Hinds, Gayle and Sarwan. Just like them these guys might take 5 years to produce as consistently as they did or even longer. West Indies cricket did not learn from that generation and we are in the same cycle again. All the kids selected have shots in them but will take time to be match ready and we need to wait it out as there are no replacements

The difference was that when the aforementioned failed to deliver, they were dropped and had to earn their way back into the team.

The current lot - at least most of them, barring one or two exceptions- can fail, game after game, series after series but are persisted with because they are deemed to be "proper batsmen"- notwithstanding the fact that their record is hardly any better than others who have been dropped after one or two failures.

What is the incentive for improvement when they can slide by on "talent" "promise" and "looking good" ?

In reply to jacksprat

How many times have Gayle, Sarwan or Samuel's been dropped?


And yet Samuels average is no better than the incumbents.

In reply to jacksprat

Then there still were Lara, Hooper and Chanders in the team to carry the team which gave the selectors some freedom so the selection could be flexible.

Had there been Gayle, Sarwan and Bravo playing there is a chance that these guys might be in and out. But with all the experience chucked out, there is no option for the selectors or even the fans to push for an alternate.

In reply to Philjam

This done gone bad already. Just let it go. The players that we have in the senior team are in fact the best players in the region. The generation that's coming after them will suffer the same fate as them because they are coming through the same system. These guys will only ever be as good as the people they play with and against. So it makes no sense to start calling names. If we follow the crowd the best players will always be the ones who not playing. If the people in charge had any idea what they were doing they would see that the way to improve our cricket long term is the keep the current team as consistent as possible so they can continue to gain experience, use performance in the A team as the final criteria for selection to the international team, and most importantly to send our graduating U-19 cricketers to another country for a few years to raise the level of their game beyond the club cricket level that we currently play. Things would seem to get worse before they get better, but they will definitely improve.

In reply to jacksprat

That is what I am saying,make them realize that no improvement will end up with replacement.If these cricketers were playing non team sports, many of them will end up have to try some other career.

Do they still hand out up to 90 professional retainer contracts?

In reply to aliaskid13
I disagree with you.The coaches can tell so much off the field.When you are on the pitch, you have to select your shots,rotate the strike,ensure that the bowlers work for your wicket...simple things like those can improve your game.If the players, that were playing the last 2 test are the same for the up coming test, what can you expect of the attitude of some of them.The selectors put the team in this situation by not keeping the players on the edge.

In reply to Philjam

What you're talking about here is the fundamentals of the game. Everybody already knows the fundamentals of the game. Even people who never put on a pair of pads in they life know exactly what you supposed to do when you're in the middle. But knowing when and how to execute these skills is something that is learned through experience. The more times you face good bowling at 90 mph, the better you will become at playing it. Wouldn't it be great if a young batsman had to face that every week in the nets and every game for a whole season instead of just once or twice (maybe) in a season?

In reply to aliaskid13

How can you honestly say they are the best available when apparently you haven't check out the individual player's test stats?

Let me help you with the stats!


Name Avg

Gayle 42.2

Darren Bravo 40.0

Braithwaite 36.64

Chase 34.8

Samuels 32.64

Dwayne Bravo 31.4

Holder 30.47

Hope 30.25

Blackwood 30.1

Powell 27.98

Dowrich 27.81

Ramdim 25.90

Leon Johnson 25.2

Devon Smith 23.8

Hetymyer 23.25

Darren Sammy 21.7

Lendl Simmons 17.4

Bishoo 16.30 LOL

Ambris 13.28

Singh 10.5

In reply to FuzzyWuzzy

SEVERAL!!!!

None of your cherished mediocre home boys, who are being afforded an interminable run, despite repeated failure, can bat like Sarwan

Yet Sarwan was dropped several times including, when he once dropped to "reflect" and another time to make way for the debutant Samuels; and when he was the victim of Hillaire's idiotic "we dont need any stars" policy; and Gibson's vindictiveness;

Gayle was dropped numerous times including when dropped in favor of the legendary Ganga and had to score close to 900 runs to force his recall for the home series against SA;

Samuels has been dropped too many times to itemise, including once immediately after scoring 60+ runs in an innings against Australia.

ANY MORE QUESTIONS?

You evidently have either not been paying attention or have been typically fuzzy in your thinking!

In reply to jacksprat

What is fuzzy is that of all the players on the squad, Blackwood is the only player dropped from the squad despite the fact that his stats are basically the same as Holder and Hope and he still has a higher average than at least 5 current test players and you do not see anything wrong with that picture? In fact at the time Blackwood was cut from the team his average was actually higher than that of both Holder and Hope.No wonder WI team is at such low standards when friends with mediocre averages are allowed complacency on the test team with assured selection. So I do not blame them as they didn't select themselves and why bother to perform when your selection is virtually assured.

What I am gathering from the comments on this thread is that folks agree that the current set of players are shytehounds but they have to play because the aspiring ones are also shytehounds and not doing enough to push them out.

So my question is: If all of them are shytehounds then why not employ a rotation policy so that everyone gets a chance to poop on the big stage? This will also ensure all of them get to eat a food and who knows!!!!

In reply to Slipfeeler
Hey Slipman, we are on the same page.If you have an opposing team, scouting the batsmen from West Indies cricket team they don't have to go too far. The first 5 batsmen will succumb to spin, in most of time.Selection is always a key part, if we want to improve or win games.Just look at the recent concluded T20 tournament, nearly all the top batsmen in test team played.Yet the top fast bowler cannot go on the tour.I rest my case

In reply to Kay

I proposed that idea before on the boards, a rotating system would force players to perform in order to keep their place on the team, preventing complacency. Who knows a rotating system might even unearth some overlooked test players.

In reply to Philjam

Agreed that selection is key but we need a fair and unbiased selection process. We are currently in this state because we created a void of quality players by unceremoniously discarding our players Who probably were not world beaters but performed adequately. While most of out current players are ill-equipped for test matches.The problem certainly cannot be solved by denying deserving players from selection, further aggravating the team's poor performances.