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Stephen Hawking No Possibility' of God in Our Universe

 
sgtdjones 2018-12-05 21:54:00 

Stephen Hawking's Final Book Says There's 'No Possibility' of God in Our Universe

From his desk at Cambridge University and beyond, Stephen Hawking sent his mind spiraling into the deepest depths of black holes, radiating across the endless cosmos and swirling back billions of years to witness time's first breath. He viewed creation as a scientist, and when he was called to discuss creation's biggest puzzles — Where do we come from? What is our purpose? Are we alone? — he answered as a scientist, often to the chagrin of religious critics.

"If you like, you can say the laws are the work of God, but that is more a definition of God than a proof of his existence," Hawking wrote.

With the universe running on a scientifically guided autopilot, the only role for an all-powerful deity might be setting the initial conditions of the universe so that those laws could take shape — a divine creator who caused the Big Bang to bang, then stepped back to behold His work.

"Did God create the quantum laws that allowed the Big Bang to occur?" Hawking wrote. "I have no desire to offend anyone of faith, but I think science has a more compelling explanation than a divine creator."


Link Text

 
sgtdjones 2018-12-05 21:55:28 

Because the universe also began as a singularity, time itself could not have existed before the Big Bang. Hawking's answer, then, to what happened before the Big Bang is, "there was no time before the Big Bang."

"We have finally found something that doesn’t have a cause, because there was no time for a cause to exist in," Hawking wrote. "For me this means that there is no possibility of a creator, because there is no time for a creator to have existed in."


Interesting

 
black 2018-12-05 22:40:09 

In reply to sgtdjones

Ayenmol will respond soon.

He has a few more door to knock on. lol

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-05 23:40:22 

3 Do not put your trust in princes Nor in a son of man, who cannot bring salvation.c 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground On that very day his thoughts perish. 5 Happy is the one who has the God of Jacob as his helper,


@Where is Stepen Hawkins?

 
sgtdjones 2018-12-06 08:54:22 

In reply to Ayenmol

In deep space 9

lol lol

 
sgtdjones 2018-12-06 08:54:49 

In reply to black

Ayenmol will respond soon.

He has a few more door to knock on.


lol lol

 
Runs 2018-12-06 09:27:53 

In reply to Ayenmol

Plant food?

 
black 2018-12-06 09:40:06 

In reply to Runs

Don't forget the worms.

And the fishes in Khashoggi's case.

 
Runs 2018-12-06 09:54:20 

In reply to black

One hand washes another and the cycle continues

 
googley 2018-12-06 09:55:34 

In reply to Runs

correct is rite. every damn thing is recycled including the soul! wink

 
Runs 2018-12-06 09:57:42 

In reply to googley

You ever went under anaesthesia? All consciousness gone, even soul was nowhere to be found lol

 
black 2018-12-06 09:59:50 

In reply to Runs

What exactly is the soul?

 
googley 2018-12-06 10:01:47 

In reply to black

start another thread on that topic! lol lol

 
Runs 2018-12-06 10:33:33 

In reply to black

d inner light lol

 
googley 2018-12-06 12:34:48 

someone should send Hawkins this lol


lol

 
Runs 2018-12-06 13:14:39 

The vast majority of humans are fantasy prone, otherwise they would not believe in God, angels or Satan. A person can function normally in a million and one ways and hold the most irrational beliefs imaginable, as long as the irrational beliefs are culturally accepted delusions. lol

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-06 13:41:43 

lol lol lol lol lol

Tat's all I can do....

Hawkins speaks of the Big Bang theory as if it's a proven fact, uses the words "I think" in talking about something he has NO PROOF of and you all are here in a tizzy...

A person can function normally in a million and one ways and hold the most irrational beliefs imaginable,


Using this man's thuoghts on an unproven theory is tantamount to believing Stan Lee's works as reality.

The vast majority of humans are fantasy prone, otherwise they would not believe in God,


Belief in God is ingrained in us! That is a fact...Most people who set out to disprove belief in God are trying to convince themselves.

Am not surprised a man who had a brilliant mind and a devastated body migt feel animosity towards the belief in God.

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-06 13:57:15 

In reply to Ayenmol

Belief in God is ingrained in us! That is a fact.


Prove it asshole. Cause it ain't no fact.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-06 14:02:24 

In reply to SnoopDog

When you prove any of the junk you spew I'll answer you.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-06 14:19:37 

Because the universe also began as a singularity, time itself could not have existed before the Big Bang.


So where was the energy that existed that could no longer be contained in this, 'nothingness' that simply had to explode?

If God could not exist in this 'nothingness', then how was energy able to? To the point that it had to explode with a force that created everything we see today and with the Scientific precision that governs every form of animate and inanimate?

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-06 14:42:00 

Also not surprising that a man who came up with a theory that has yet to be proven speaks of another man's theory as gospel...

Apparently You can come up with a theory and get rich from comics and movies, or come up with a theory and get rich from Books and research....at the end of the day it's just one man's theory that results in cult following to the point where he just says what he thinks and his followers go spread the word!

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-06 15:09:01 

In reply to Ayenmol

When you prove any of the junk you spew I'll answer you.


You want proof? Take a grade 10 science class ya Dummy.

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-06 15:13:07 

In reply to Ayenmol

Also not surprising that a man who came up with a theory that has yet to be proven speaks of another man's theory as gospel...

Apparently You can come up with a theory and get rich from comics and movies, or come up with a theory and get rich from Books and research....at the end of the day it's just one man's theory that results in cult following to the point where he just says what he thinks and his followers go spread the word!


It's not "one man's theory" you bible thumping ignoramus. The theory didn't come out of his ass like the fairy tales found in the bible.

Stephen Hawking and all his theories are the result of years and decades of scientific and academic research. Even an intellectually inept and lazy fool like you can actually find and read his theories and the scientific research behind it and which backs it up.

 
Star 2018-12-06 15:13:27 

In Stephen Hawking's final book "Brief Answers to Big Questions," --- the professor begins a series of 10 intergalactic essays by addressing life's oldest and most religiously fraught question of all:

Is there a God?


Hawking's answer — ---
"I think the universe was spontaneously created out of nothing, according to the laws of science,"


What a load of crap from an esteemed intellectual. Why are you people fawning over this? With this non-de-script answer we are no closer to knowing the answer than we were 10,000 years ago.

Stephen Hawkins will always be respected for his exploits as a Theoretical Physicist and Cosmologist but I will question the basic common sense of educated fools who believe that something can be created from nothing.

Nothing that is impossible can be possible. Only something that is possible can be possible. The logic cannot be any clearer.

I am betting my marbles on the logic that we humans were created, that the universe was created and that it was planned and executed by a higher force. Whatever name you choose to call this higher force is up to you but it cannot be a settled argument that there is no GOD, the name I choose to recognize this higher force by.

Amen.

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-06 15:16:31 

In reply to Star

Stephen Hawkings will always be respected for his exploits as a Theoretical Physicist and Cosmologist but I will question the basic common sense of educated fools who believe that something can be created from nothing.


Oh look, another bible thumping idiot.

Have you actually read the scientific reasoning behind why Dr. Hawking thinks that the universe was spontaneously created out of nothing, according to the LAWS OF SCIENCE?

I bet you haven't, but you're ready to blow your load all over your little bronze age book of fairy tales in a pathetic attempt to discredit the theory.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-06 15:30:18 

In reply to Star

Hawking invoked the name of God in his seminal book A Brief History of Time, writing that if physicists could find a “theory of everything” — that is, a cohesive explanation for how the universe works — they would glimpse “the mind of God.”


That is what he said in his first book...Then he spent his entire life walking that back....Then facing his own Mortality he decided to give it a final shot based , no doubt, on his own hubris to be counted as the Know it all!

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-06 15:31:51 

In reply to SnoopDog

Have you actually read the scientific reasoning behind why Dr. Hawking thinks that the universe was spontaneously created out of nothing, according to the LAWS OF SCIENCE?


Am sure you have, which is why all you can do is ask questions of others but yet to offer any proof for any of the things you claim to believe!

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-06 15:39:46 

In reply to Ayenmol

Am sure you have, which is why all you can do is ask questions of others but yet to offer any proof for any of the things you claim to believe!


Prove what idiot?

The Big Bang? Gravity? Entropy? String theory? Evolution? Micro waves? Special relativity? General relativity? Quantum theory? Electricity? Theoretical computer science? Game theory? Plate tectonics theory? Heliocentrism?.......

It's called going to school and having an education.

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-06 15:47:04 

In reply to Ayenmol

That is what he said in his first book...Then he spent his entire life walking that back....Then facing his own Mortality he decided to give it a final shot based , no doubt, on his own hubris to be counted as the Know it all!


He didn't "walk" anything back. Science isn't an absolute like religion. Science and scientists continually reject previous theories or hypothesis when new facts and evidence through peer evaluation or better research come to light.

You're still stuck with the talking snake, the talking donkey and the magician who was born to a virgin and then flew up into the clouds after he supposedly died to meet his dad which is also himself.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-06 15:52:29 

In reply to SnoopDog

Really? If Science is not absolute then why is Hawkins using Science in saying definitively there is no 'possibility of God' with not a shred of proof to back this and you are here touting it as some authority?

 
black 2018-12-06 15:52:36 

In reply to SnoopDog

lol lol lol

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-06 16:00:46 

Te man is of his rockers and this form of hubris is what makes me put even greater belief in the Bible.

Here is a man that lived his life forming theories based on Scientific research, yet at the end of his life his hubris gives way to his scientific process and he is asking folks to , just trust is gut!

Yet no where in the Bible do the writers ask tat anyone just trust them, or that they are giving opinion...they all stick to the overall theme of the Bible and never draw undue attention o themselves.

Mr. Kawkins as fallen for the very same hubris and self exultation we see in all other human writers!

You are presenting a man's opinion as fact, while asking me to absolve my deepest belief for all I see around me that proves the existence of a Creator, while the very premise this man uses for his theory is blatantly flawed!

Go answer those questions regarding the energy that existed where God could not possibly.

Nonsense.

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-06 16:05:55 

In reply to Ayenmol

Nonsense.


It's on sale at Amazon. I'll get you a copy for Christmas.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-06 16:41:59 

In reply to SnoopDog

How about answering a single question instead of providing comic relief in an attempt to mask your hatred and unhappiness that everyone does not believe like you.

Or your vapid hatred for the fact that some people actually have a hope beyond death while you do not.



razz No matter what you say, we still believe and will go on believing. Go on with your science that is mere conjecture!

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-06 17:28:48 

In reply to Ayenmol

Or your vapid hatred for the fact that some people actually have a hope beyond death while you do not.


I don't hate you for possessing bronze age fantasies about your imaginary afterlife.

What I hate is the fact that you try to impose such nonsense on other people and worse try to influence social policies. If you keep your batshit beliefs within the confines of your own homes I wouldn't care less what you believe in - Santa, Fairy godmother, Unicorns, two bit magician from Roman times etc.

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-06 17:45:59 

In reply to Ayenmol

How about answering a single question instead of providing comic relief in an attempt to mask your hatred and unhappiness that everyone does not believe like you.


Do you want the paperback or softcover? hardcover is nicer to wrap and last longer.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-06 18:17:16 

In reply to SnoopDog

Ah your Religion of choice. You sure know where to find your daily meal of bashing the Bible.

Keep proselytizing your disbelief while claiming to hate those who proselytize their belief.

What's the word, oh yeah, hypocrite!

 
Star 2018-12-06 21:05:11 

In reply to SnoopDog

Have you actually read the scientific reasoning behind why Dr. Hawking thinks that the universe was spontaneously created out of nothing, according to the LAWS OF SCIENCE?

As a matter of fact, I did. Read "A Brief History of Time", "The Grand Design". "God Created the Integers" and "The Big Bang and Black Holes".

Now let me ask you this, have you read any of Leonard Susskind's books? Try reading "The Black hole War" and if you want to learn anything about intelligent design and the Anthropic Principle, get hold of "The Cosmic Landscape".

Wouldn't be fair for me to call you a non bible thumping idiot or would it?

What do you think Mr.Dog?

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-07 08:52:25 

In reply to Star

He only searches for titles that seem to agree with his hate for anyone who believes opposite his hate for God.

He does not read a thing!

None of them do...just pretending to by posting links that half the time do not say what they think it does.

They love to post Science when most. Scientiist agree that life agrees with the thought of an intelligent designer.

Funny thing is they love to post on how the Schools are changing history in their portrayal of White treatment of the Black race, but are mum on the same conspiracy regarding creation and evolution.

 
Runs 2018-12-07 08:57:34 

In reply to Ayenmol


He does not read a thing!

None of them do...just pretending to by posting links that half the time do not say what they think it does.


I suppose you will next claim divine powers to make such an asinine and dumb ASSertion. lol

 
Star 2018-12-07 11:14:13 

In reply to Runs
Your buddy Mr.Dog is in the habit of accusing others on this forum of not reading anything of substance implying that he is the only one here who reads anything of substance.

One should not allow one's education to cloud the mind to the extent that common sense is lacking, although unaware to the individual is quite noticeable to others. That is reaching the threshold of educated fools.

Mr.Dog must come to the realization that he is not the only one with a PhD.

 
Runs 2018-12-07 11:29:43 

In reply to Star

I disagree with your opinion sir, as a matter of fact, I think Mr Dog uses facts unlike others. I think you want recognition as a reader unlike many on here who do not read if I may borrow Mr Ayenmol’s ASSertion. wink
Theist or Atheist can both believe in a supernatural being one based on facts and logic and the other faith.

 
Star 2018-12-07 12:31:02 

In reply to Runs
You are missing the point.

Educated people with common sense would never label others as idiots because of differing points of view.

As you may very well know, you would be permanently banned from the debating team for doing so.

Posters come here to have fun and engage others in meaningful discussions. The minute you think or believe your intellect is superior to everyone else is where the line should be drawn.

Once again that is how educated fools portray themselves. Have a nice day.

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-07 12:32:56 

In reply to Star

Your buddy Mr.Dog is in the habit of accusing others on this forum of not reading anything of substance implying that he is the only one here who reads anything of substance.

One should not allow one's education to cloud the mind to the extent that common sense is lacking, although unaware to the individual is quite noticeable to others. That is reaching the threshold of educated fools.

Mr.Dog must come to the realization that he is not the only one with a PhD.


You haven't read jack shyte. You know it, and I know it.

Anyone who writes this 5th grade level tripe hasn't read a page out of Dr. Hawking's books.

Nothing that is impossible can be possible. Only something that is possible can be possible. The logic cannot be any clearer.

I am betting my marbles on the logic that we humans were created, that the universe was created and that it was planned and executed by a higher force. Whatever name you choose to call this higher force is up to you but it cannot be a settled argument that there is no GOD, the name I choose to recognize this higher force by.

Amen.

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-07 12:34:50 

In reply to Star

Educated people with common sense would never label others as idiots because of differing points of view.


You don't have a differing point of view. You have an ignorant point of view.

Any point of view which invokes imaginary beings and sky daddies in the face of Dr. Hawking and his scientific works is batshyte ignorant.

 
Runs 2018-12-07 12:38:48 

In reply to Star

If you are wrong and still obstinate when faced with facts hell yeah you will be called out, maybe you prefer innuendo instead of being called an idiot?
lol

 
googley 2018-12-07 12:43:22 

In reply to SnoopDog

now now, Mr. DOG...behave yourself! lol lol lol lol lol

 
black 2018-12-07 12:51:34 

In reply to googley

Mr Dog on their asses. lol lol lol

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-07 13:01:07 

In reply to black and googs

I like that he refers to poster Snoopdog as "Mr. Dog". lol

Now he's going to get a good ole dog lesson. big grin

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-07 14:04:04 

In reply to Runs

If you are wrong and still obstinate when faced with facts

What facts?...I see you have gone all in now. The posse of God haters has emboldened you to show your true colors on the subject instead of your passive aggressive stance in playing both sides.

Now tell me what facts any of these men has presented.

Start with the premise of this thread.

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-07 14:52:15 

In reply to Ayenmol

Now tell me what facts any of these men has presented.

Start with the premise of this thread.


It's all here. Read it for yourself Doofus. cool

 
nick2020 2018-12-07 14:56:30 

In reply to SnoopDog

Do you believe in a creator period though?
I do not mean the stuff in religious texts.

 
black 2018-12-07 14:59:25 

In reply to nick2020

If you believe in a creator, then the next question is, who created the creator?

 
nick2020 2018-12-07 14:59:40 

In reply to SnoopDog

It argues that invoking God is not necessary to explain the origins of the universe, and that the Big Bang is a consequence of the laws of physics alone.[2] In response to criticism, Hawking has said; "One can't prove that God doesn't exist, but science makes God unnecessary."[3] When pressed on his own religious views by the Channel 4 documentary Genius of Britain, he has clarified that he does not believe in a personal God.[4][5]


There is a reason why said he does not believe in a personal God. Because when one says "I do not believe in God" people like yourself run with it to burn down religion.

Many men of science just as smart as Hawkins (or smarter) believe in a creator; they just don't believe in a talking bush.

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-07 15:00:30 

In reply to nick2020

Do you believe in a creator period though?


What do you mean by creator?

 
nick2020 2018-12-07 15:01:57 

In reply to black

If you believe in a creator, then the next question is, who created the creator?


I believe that a chicken laid the egg I just had for breakfast.
I don't know where the chicken came from.

You believe the universe farted out that egg.
Maybe you should ask yourself where the fart (lol edit universe) came from?

 
nick2020 2018-12-07 15:02:58 

In reply to SnoopDog

cre·a·tor
[krēˈādər]

NOUN
a person or thing that brings something into existence.


Exactly that. Nothing more.

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-07 15:09:25 

In reply to nick2020



cre·a·tor
[krēˈādər]

NOUN

a person or thing that brings something into existence.Exactly that. Nothing more.


Okay. Let's work on this assumption that everything in existence had a 'creator'. You are left with the paradox and absurdity of who, or what, created the creator, and who, or what, created that creator and so on......

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-07 15:12:40 

In reply to nick2020

Maybe you should ask yourself where the fart (lol edit universe) came from?


It matters not one shit to my life who blew out the primal fart. It's actually completely irrelevant to our day to day mundane existence who blew out that fart.

Now on a scientific or academic level, the questions about the origins of the universe (as we currently understand it) are extremely fascinating.

 
black 2018-12-07 15:14:05 

In reply to nick2020


I believe that a chicken laid the egg I just had for breakfast. 
I don't know where the chicken came from. 

You believe the universe farted out that egg. 
Maybe you should ask yourself where the fart (lol edit universe) came from?


That's why it makes sense that everything evolved. Chickens have not been around since the beginning of time.

What is your next question, you don't believe in evolution?

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-07 15:20:49 

In reply to nick2020

Many men of science just as smart as Hawkins (or smarter) believe in a creator;


By the way, I have zero issues with people believing in a creator whether in a religious context or agnostic context.

My main beef with religious beliefs and its followers is that they are not content with keeping their beliefs private, especially in a secular society like ours. When they try to force our children to learn the ignorant idea of creationism in schools, or force us to recite prayers in public institutions, or propose anti-blasphemy legislation - that's where I draw the line of acceptance and tolerance of people who believe this stuff.

 
nick2020 2018-12-07 15:45:39 

In reply to SnoopDog


Now on a scientific or academic level, the questions about the origins of the universe (as we currently understand it) are extremely fascinating.



Questions about the origins of the universe encompass a creator Snoop. Because again a creator is a person or a thing.

My main beef with religious beliefs and its followers is that they are not content with keeping their beliefs private


Don't be a hypocrite; you do not keep your beliefs private either. And since Batquake has been banned we are left with black forcing his atheism on us every single day. To which you are part of the entourage.

These discussion come up every day because of black and not some religious fanatic on the board.

 
WI_cricfan 2018-12-07 15:46:02 

Who is Steven Hawking? Has he won a noble prize as yet?

 
nick2020 2018-12-07 15:47:48 

In reply to black

What is your next question, you don't believe in evolution?


Chicken and egg is not about evolution.
And of course I believe that organisms have adapted to survive over time to an ever-changing ecology.

I believe one day man will be born without an appendix.

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-07 15:53:31 

In reply to nick2020

Don't be a hypocrite; you do not keep your beliefs private either. And since Batquake has been banned we are left with black forcing his atheism on us every single day. To which you are part of the entourage.

These discussion come up every day because of black and not some religious fanatic on the board.


Atheism or anti-theism is a LACK of belief.

Unless you want to go down the grade 5 level discourse of saying my lack of belief is my belief.

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-07 15:54:13 

In reply to nick2020

I believe one day man will be born without an appendix.


Or born without wisdom teeth, like one of my aunt.

 
sgtdjones 2018-12-07 15:57:26 

In reply to WI_cricfan

Who is Steven Hawking? Has he won a noble prize as yet?



Theoretical scientific discoveries have to be confirmed by observational data before there’s a possibility of winning a Nobel. And it’s somewhat difficult to observe a black hole.

It takes decades to build the scientific equipment to test theoretical discoveries; to put this into context, Einstein’s theory of gravitational waves in space, which he first proposed in the 1920s, was only recently proven in 2016.

One of Hawking’s most important finds was “Hawkings Radiation,” the theory that black holes are not completely black after all, but emit radiations that ultimately cause them to disappear. The issue is, the technology needed to observe this radiation will take years and cost millions before Hawking’s theory can ever be verified.

 
nick2020 2018-12-07 16:00:55 

In reply to SnoopDog

Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which, in its most general form, is the belief that at least one deity exists.


I have never heard your definition before.

So to go by the dictionary meaning black does not believe in God.
Black is the anti-batquake.

And he forces his ideology on us daily. lol

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-07 16:02:09 

In reply to sgtdjones

I think he's asking about STEVEN Hawking - the TV repair dude with a handlebar mustache.

 
SnoopDog 2018-12-07 16:04:21 

In reply to nick2020


I have never heard your definition before.

So to go by the dictionary meaning black does not believe in God.
Black is the anti-batquake.

And he forces his ideology on us daily.


I've stated my definition about anti-theism here many times before. It's actually Hitchen's definition but one which I agree with as most correct.

 
black 2018-12-07 16:07:24 

In reply to nick2020

What ideology?

I raise pertinent questions.

 
Ewart 2018-12-07 22:54:45 

Did Hawking say this before or after his death??


//

 
sgtdjones 2018-12-07 23:14:34 

In reply to Ewart

Before.

 
nick2020 2018-12-08 05:22:18 

In reply to black

The big fella created all animals is not a question but an observation and really one a room of kindergartens would find interesting.

In the story he created animals to be used by his final creation. Why do some people care about dogs and cats but not chickens?

Pertinent? Maybe if you are 6 years old.

 
Ewart 2018-12-08 09:32:55 

In reply to sgtdjones


wink razz redface shock big grin big grin big grin lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol





Then how would he know?


//

 
sgtdjones 2018-12-08 10:27:36 

In reply to Ewart

He cant say it after he dead

lol lol lol lol lol lol

 
np 2018-12-08 16:43:53 

Belief is not evidence.
Without evidence there is nothing to create this BELIEF. So I remain a nonbeliever.

IT IS easy to not believe in god —- why.. there is YET no evidence to prove that.
Scienctific arguments are based on evidence, after trials, experimentation and further refinement of processes.... that are repeatable.

Why then is this god unwiling to reveal self. And stop al this hullabaloo..... I will remain true to myself and not believe% .....
it does not matter one rass when my passing comes. Beause there will be no return of the I to answer to the crap about heaven.

****sorry about the repeats .... was having connectivity issues as I travel —- and I cleaned that up.
And hush Ahenmol —- is not god was causing that******
big grin

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-08 19:21:20 

In reply to np

And hush Ahenmol —- is not god was causing that******


You all really think the Creator of the Universe is thin skinned and worrying about every slight.

Imagine how you'd view someone who did not think you existed if you had an invisibility cloak and right there.

Reveal himself? He will do more than reveal himself and when he does it will be too late...you think this treacherous life we live is worth anything?

When God's original purpose for man is restored, this life will be as a brief flight from a wartorn region to the most beautiful place on Earth....death?

Death is nothing.

Life is the gift!

 
sgtdjones 2018-12-08 19:39:38 

In reply to Ayenmol

Because the universe also began as a singularity, time itself could not have existed before the Big Bang. Hawking's answer, then, to what happened before the Big Bang is, "there was no time before the Big Bang."

"We have finally found something that doesn’t have a cause, because there was no time for a cause to exist in," Hawking wrote. "For me this means that there is no possibility of a creator, because there is no time for a creator to have existed in."


This is concise and intriguing, care to respond?

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-08 22:02:32 

In reply to sgtdjones

That is someone's imagination....where is the proof?

Just because you are fascinated does not make it any more real.

All this talk of Scientific fact, is simply supposition and theory.

Whenever new scientific information is discovered that renders their previous theory inaccurate, then they form a new theory that has not been proven and claim 'the science took us there'.
Then in a few years new information comes in and they change again...This is not Scientific proof...if anything the Science just keeps proving you all are WRONG!

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-08 22:09:51 

We have finally found something that doesn’t have a cause,


What did he find?


there was no time for a cause to exist in


Where is the scientific proof of this? Or is it just a theory based on the relatively finite data?


For me this means that


Solid data? Where is it? Scientific consensus? Where is it? Sounds like personal opinion to me, a man at the end of his rope who just throws something out there for the likes of you.

 
Ewart 2018-12-08 22:32:29 

In reply to sgtdjones

... and he has no evidence while he is alive. So he does not know.


//

 
sgtdjones 2018-12-08 23:06:49 

In reply to Ayenmol

Genesis, to start. There were “days” for 3 days before there was a sun. Three what’s”?

Adam and Eve - either they already knew the difference between right and wrong, so “the sin of eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil” doesn’t make sense - “eating of the fruit of” is “learning”, and you can’t learn what you already know

Let’s go on to Exodus. The later parts, after Moses died, were written by … Moses. “Ghost-written”?

In the story of David and Goliath, David kills Goliath twice.

Many know the famous story of David, a small boy, who took down the colossal Goliath with just a slingshot. The Bible states that David shoots Goliath in the center of the forehead, killing him.

Then, after Goliath has fallen, David takes a sword from a nearby Philistine and approaches Goliath and cuts off his head, killing him (duh).

Yes, the Bible specifies that both instances killed Goliath.
.
Jesus didn’t die. Christians are always going on about how Jesus died for our sins, but if he came back 3 days later then he didn’t die at all


Noah's Ark is the most ridiculous story there is. How did pandas, kangaroos, koala bears and other animals that are native to remotes places get to the ark? What did lions and tigers and other carnivore animals eat once the flood was over?

God forgives? How about Joshua 24:19 -- "he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins."

Heaven is everlasting? Not according to Mark 13:31 -- "Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away"

"Our Lord Jesus Christ is the manifestation of [God] in time, space and energy in person simultaneously to all His creations (all of the Universe) - so that all His creations can relate to God."Anything that Perfection touches directly will be either obliterated or turned Perfect.
God has this problem that He, by His very nature of being absolutely spotless and perfect and pure light, can't really touch anyone who isn't without totally transforming them

Jesus who came, saw, healed, rescued, taught about God, and then got tortured and nailed to a tree, and rose from the dead to boot. I can totally see the Buddha accepting being crucified, but the Buddha didn't miraculously heal people or raise anyone from the dead, either. He likewise never claimed to God.

But why get killed? Christians say Jesus died for us. Christians say Jesus rose from the dead.So he didnt die?huh

Did God need Jesus to pay a tremendous price, to take His wrath? Jesus on a cross? God Himself stepping into Imperfection and enduring an unjust penalty? I don't understand how even God dying on a cross saves all of humanity from a penalty.

Why a SON? Why is most everything in Christianity so much in the masculine context?
Reading the Bible doesn't help women's self-esteem.

Even the Ten Commandments are apparently written for men (it does not say "Thou shalt not covet your neighbor's husband"!).

What about the feminine aspect of God - does God have a feminine side? Father, son, and the Holy Ghost? Who is this dude Holy Ghost?


I took a New Testament class. On one of the first days, the teacher told us that in order for the Bible to make sense, one must read it with an open mind and be "led by the spirit" to understand, otherwise you'll end up criticizing it. This sounded nearly cult-like to me, and pretty much sealed my conversion to a hell-bound sinner atheist.

Conclusion

The Bible: stories that make no sense are the ones between the first and last pages.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-08 23:13:06 

In reply to sgtdjones

Are you plagiarizing? Or you gonna post the source?

 
sgtdjones 2018-12-08 23:14:50 

In reply to Ayenmol

I had a discussion with another atheist, this is what our discussion entailed. I have never read the bible, he is the one that gave me quotations of the book and some notes.He attended school to become a priest, now he is the biggest drunk I know?
If I copy and paste I give credit to the writer.

I did go to Testament class at high school and decided
an atheist was me.

Answer the questions, please?

 
black 2018-12-08 23:57:47 

In reply to sgtdjones

It's all nonsense. lol lol lol

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-09 00:02:16 

Genesis, to start. There were “days” for 3 days before there was a sun. Three what’s”?


Proving it was not three literal days...Science proves that also.

Adam and Eve - either they already knew the difference between right and wrong, so “the sin of eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil” doesn’t make sense - “eating of the fruit of” is “learning”, and you can’t learn what you already know


Um...that makes no sense...I know what love is, yet am taught daily how to show it. The knowledge of Good and bad represented man's right to choose for himself what good and bad is...they already had free will.

Let’s go on to Exodus. The later parts, after Moses died, were written by … Moses. “Ghost-written”?


Well documented that Joshua finished the Book...that's kinda common sense.


In the story of David and Goliath, David kills Goliath twice.


He knocks him down wit the stone then cuts of his head with the sword. It simply describes what is done stating the process David went to...not sure what is difficult to understand about that...manner of writing...there's many such in ancient times.

Jesus didn’t die. Christians are always going on about how Jesus died for our sins, but if he came back 3 days later then he didn’t die at all

Um Lazarus was dead for 4 days, How many days does it take for someone to be dead?

Noah's Ark is the most ridiculous story there is. How did pandas, kangaroos, koala bears and other animals that are native to remotes places get to the ark? What did lions and tigers and other carnivore animals eat once the flood was over?
Bible does not say...But there are many things the Bible does not say...Scientist are still finding animals buried with grass in their stomach et...in fact there have been as many discoveries pointing to a Global flood than that pointing to Evolution..yet you have no issues with the latter...

God forgives? How about Joshua 24:19 -- "he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins."


Yes they suffered the consequences of their sins, as did Adam and Eve. He forgives those who are repentant. Feel free to learn the difference.

Heaven is everlasting? Not according to Mark 13:31 -- "Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away"

The scripture reads...But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise,q and in these righteousness is to dwell.

These refer to Heavens...Rulership is referred to in the Bible as Heavens...Earth as evreyday people...Symbolic, not literal...We are waiting that New Heavens...God's Kingdom. New Earth...Obedient mankind. Righteous people dwell there. Heaven the Place or Earth the place are not righteous in themselves.

"Our Lord Jesus Christ is the manifestation of [God] in time, space and energy in person simultaneously to all His creations (all of the Universe) - so that all His creations can relate to God."Anything that Perfection touches directly will be either obliterated or turned Perfect.
God has this problem that He, by His very nature of being absolutely spotless and perfect and pure light, can't really touch anyone who isn't without totally transforming them


There is some basic truth there but mostly false teaching...not found in the Bible as presented.

Jesus who came, saw, healed, rescued, taught about God, and then got tortured and nailed to a tree, and rose from the dead to boot. I can totally see the Buddha accepting being crucified, but the Buddha didn't miraculously heal people or raise anyone from the dead, either. He likewise never claimed to God.


No mention of Buddha in the Bible...you are confusing beliefs.

But why get killed? Christians say Jesus died for us. Christians say Jesus rose from the dead.So he didnt die?huh


Redundant...Jesus was a ransom...go look up what a ransom is. Perfect life given for perfect life. Adam and Eve lost perfection when they sinned. Jesus died without sin...Death is the penalty for sin thus, dying without sin is a ransom to buy back those imperfect with the value of his life.

Did God need Jesus to pay a tremendous price, to take His wrath? Jesus on a cross? God Himself stepping into Imperfection and enduring an unjust penalty? I don't understand how even God dying on a cross saves all of humanity from a penalty.


Redundant, see above. God's standards are perfect. Which is why all those who love to talk about God revealing himself to them while they are in sin, this concept alone helps you understand that cannot be so, otherwise why would e have Jesus go through all that when all he had to do was magically forgive?
See the pattern?

Why a SON? Why is most everything in Christianity so much in the masculine context?
Reading the Bible doesn't help women's self-esteem.

And Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dustd from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life,e and the man became a living person....
Man was created first.
Then Jehovah God said: “It is not good for the man to continue to be alone. I am going to make a helper for him, as a complement of him.

Woman was created next as a complement...Were all your kids birthed simultaneously? Do you love one more tan the other because of their birthdate? But do you ever call the third born the first? Or leave the 2nd in charge of the first in their formative years?

Even the Ten Commandments are apparently written for men (it does not say "Thou shalt not covet your neighbor's husband"!).


Foolish nonsense based on current bad behavior...Even today men covet women not the other way around...and it has been that way for centuries...

What about the feminine aspect of God - does God have a feminine side? Father, son, and the Holy Ghost? Who is this dude Holy Ghost?

Father...Jehovah God. Creator.
Son , Jesus, the Christ. First person, thing Jehovah created. Only ting e Created alone.Colossians 1...
13 He rescued us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 by means of whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all other things, and by means of him all other things were made to exist,


Holy Spirit...God's active force, is power.

Notice that scripture above claims even Jesus was created in God's likeness. As was man...so our traits are similar to God's. But he gave us a complement. Don't you just love that?


I took a New Testament class. On one of the first days, the teacher told us that in order for the Bible to make sense, one must read it with an open mind and be "led by the spirit" to understand, otherwise you'll end up criticizing it. This sounded nearly cult-like to me, and pretty much sealed my conversion to a hell-bound sinner atheist.


There are lots of people who teach things they do not believe or understand.

The Bible though does take God's spirit to understand. He is brilliant and understands that true devotion comes from faith.

The Bible: stories that make no sense are the ones between the first and last pages.


Am sure you do not understand 90% of the tings you use daily...does not mean they are not there.

Do you understand the tax code? Can you learn it in one day? Week? Month?

Can you understand all the laws of the land you live in one short class?

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-09 00:44:13 

You know what is funny?

The idea of the Sun not being Created till the third day.

The way the Bible came to us was through copyist...The Bible was copied by certain men in Israel for centuries. Many copies were made by many copyist.

You think they never saw this disparity? YTou think just because they did not have the tech of our day they were morons?

Yet not one of them changed the wording. You think they understood how it was possible that Creation took 6 days wen the Sun was not created till the 3rd?

Now Centuries later we have come to understand that Creation might have lasted way longer due to Science...but there it is in the Bible...A very vivid thought that this was not literal days as we come to describe it based on night and daylight...

If Moses made this up, why did he not start wit the Sun, since most of mankind worshiped the Sun and accepted life as being dependent on the Sun.

Why would this innocuous detail be in there? Why did no one remove it? Did the writer know that these days were not literal days? That one day we would have tech that could measure the age of carbon deposits?

Yet instead of asking those questions, they are asking how David killed Goliath twice....

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-09 10:12:40 

In reply to sgtdjones

This is concise and intriguing, care to respond?


Am waiting for your response in like to my questions of your presented 'facts'!

Solid data? Where is it? Scientific consensus? Where is it? Sounds like personal opinion to me, a man at the end of his rope who just throws something out there for the likes of you.


Am waiting...

 
sgtdjones 2018-12-09 10:59:14 

In reply to Ayenmol

Because the universe also began as a singularity, time itself could not have existed before the Big Bang. Hawking's answer, then, to what happened before the Big Bang is, "there was no time before the Big Bang."

"We have finally found something that doesn’t have a cause, because there was no time for a cause to exist in," Hawking wrote. "For me this means that there is no possibility of a creator, because there is no time for a creator to have existed in."


It takes decades to build the scientific equipment to test theoretical discoveries; to put this into context, Einstein’s theory of gravitational waves in space, which he first proposed in the 1920s, was only recently proven in 2016.

One of Hawking’s most important finds was “Hawkings Radiation,” the theory that black holes are not completely black after all, but emit radiations that ultimately cause them to disappear. The issue is, the technology needed to observe this radiation will take years and cost millions before Hawking’s theory can ever be verified.

The above sounds more believable than the Bible quotations.

Did God create the universe in six days, resting on the seventh? Or was it born in a fiery "big bang" billions of years ago?

"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth," reads the story of creation described in Genesis


Sounds realistic to a big bang theory. We must remember
scholars changed some parts of the Bible.

Time is not a constant: It's relative,
Einstein.


Let us note before Adam was created, Do we see time before Adam was created? Why does God need time, if he is so powerful? He needs a day of rest?

Is there physics in the Bible? Is the Big Bang and your bible Genesis speaking about evolution?

Should the Bible be taken literally, rejecting theories of evolution in favor of the Bible's stories?

The Bible describes the day-by-day development of our universe in the six days following the creation, is it referring to six 24-hour days?

If God is so powerful, does He need the sun and the stars and the moon to make a day? ...is he not bright enough to go Poof and we have everything that is required?

As someone with a Science background, I find the Bible as a book of Fables. I am to believe that the Romans created this fallacy of a God to keep the multitudes from revolting. Promising them to be lead to some promised land.
Fake news even in those years.

Today the Jews believe they are the promise people and Israel is the promise land.
How can their God allow them to treat the Palestinians as such?

Now one sees why I have difficulty in the Bible.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-09 11:10:00 

sounds more believable than the Bible quotations.



I stopped reading after that!

When you say that you believe in Evolution because there is proof, then your retort to a request for facts is the above then it shows how much of a hypocrite you are!

The Bible has withstood the passage of time! Centuries of persons have benefited by applying laws and principles from the Bible.

Governments have based their laws on that derived in an ancient book like no other.

Just look above at the inane questions you provide for a book that has been around for centuries...foolish nonsense that no one would think twice about given the vast array of topics the Bible covers, the best you can come up with is, who finished Exodus, how did animals from remote areas come to Noah, (of course God provided manna for the Israelites in the Wilderness and a sheep for Abraham at Horeb, but somehow he could not provide the means for Noah to accomplish his will!), and a bunch of redundant thoughts that show you do not understand the Bible and not any real issue with what it actually says...and to you that is proof that the Bible is somehow defective!

Of course you cannot answer a single question regarding your socalled fact based belief outside of...sounds good!

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-09 11:12:06 

We must remember
scholars changed some parts of the Bible


Provide the evidence of the parts that were changed!

Now i can come up with many things that have changed with ypur theory of evolution when s ience has proved it wrong.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-09 11:18:07 

In reply to sgtdjones

As someone with a Science background, I find the Bible as a book of Fables.


What scientific background?

You just based your entire belief that there is no God on a crippled man's admitted opinion and you here talking bout fables!

You are a joke!

 
sgtdjones 2018-12-09 11:21:26 

In reply to Ayenmol

The Bible has withstood the passage of time! Centuries of persons have benefited by applying laws and principles from the Bible.


The original writings of the Christian Bible were probably only written in Hebrew, Arimaic and Greek

First, the bible isn’t a single book. It’s a collection of books written by largely unknown authors.
Isn't the “modern Bible” compiled by men who picked and chose among the books available to them at the time ?.
Since it has been edited, how can it be verified as a book from God?

No first Edition Bible exists, for the first 100 to 200 years, copies of the Bible were made by hand … and not by professionals.Did this lead to many errors, omissions, and — most importantly — changes?

Actually, we have no way to know what the originals said since we do not have any of them. What we do know is the oldest manuscripts we have are all different to some degree.

And it must be remembered that all this took place in a culture that was more “at home” with oral transmission of the faith, not written transmission. Telling-hearing was of utmost importance.

Storytelling is not a precise affair!

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-09 11:30:26 

In reply to sgtdjones

First, the bible isn’t a single book. It’s a collection of books written by largely unknown authors.
Isn't the “modern Bible” compiled by men who picked and chose among the books available to them at the time ?.
Since it has been edited, how can it be verified as a book from God?


Awwww so cute! Proving the the Authenticity of the Bible while trying to sound intelligent.

Prove how it was edited!

Because you just questioned how they failed to edit that the Sun was Created on the 3rd day...so they missed that!

Where are the edits?

You just questioned how God could not have snapped his fingers and aged the Earth and created everything, then you turn around and question how he managed to ensure that the Books he inspeired were brought together by his people!

Pick a fight...either you are questioning his Power or you are not.

Just shows how foolish you are, you cant' even be consistent in your questioning while claiming that the Bible is harmonious because people were able to edit 66 Books of the Bible, written over 3500 years to make it harmonious while claiming at the same time it is not harmonious.

 
black 2018-12-09 11:38:30 

In reply to sgtdjones



The original writings of the Christian Bible were probably only written in Hebrew, Arimaic and Greek 

First, the bible isn’t a single book. It’s a collection of books written by largely unknown authors. 
Isn't the “modern Bible” compiled by men who picked and chose among the books available to them at the time ?. 
Since it has been edited, how can it be verified as a book from God? 

No first Edition Bible exists, for the first 100 to 200 years, copies of the Bible were made by hand … and not by professionals.Did this lead to many errors, omissions, and — most importantly — changes? 

Actually, we have no way to know what the originals said since we do not have any of them. What we do know is the oldest manuscripts we have are all different to some degree. 

And it must be remembered that all this took place in a culture that was more “at home” with oral transmission of the faith, not written transmission. Telling-hearing was of utmost importance. 

Storytelling is not a precise affair!


Well said.

Isn't the “modern Bible” compiled by men who picked and chose among the books available to them at the time ?. 
Since it has been edited, how can it be verified as a book from God?


I've often wondered the same.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-09 11:44:05 

And it must be remembered that all this took place in a culture that was more “at home” with oral transmission of the faith, not written transmission. Telling-hearing was of utmost importance.

Storytelling is not a precise affair!


Yet all you can come up with is where did the animals come from, and why does it say that David killed Goliath twice, as proof of issues in contradiction....i can give you a single sentence written, and within 2 pages of post it's meaning would have changed twice...

You are presenting as problems ideas that proves the unique quality of the Bible and further proves that it has a non human backer!

 
Dan_De_Lyan 2018-12-09 11:46:01 

Where is Batquake and Toldus when needed?

 
sgtdjones 2018-12-09 11:54:44 

In reply to Ayenmol

Did the Bible change over the years...YES

Psalms 14:3-4
But they are all gone out of the way, they are all together become abominable; there is none that does good, no not one. [Their throat is an open sepulcre: with their tongues they have disceaued, the poison of aspes is under their lips. Their mouth is full of cursing and bitterness, their feet are swift to shed blood. Destruction and unhappiness is in their ways, and the way of peace have they not known, there is no fear of God before their eyes.] Have they known me, that are such workers of mischief, eating up my people, as it were bread and call not upon the Lord? There were they brought in great fear [even where no fear was] for God is in the generation of the righteous

Changes that were made by the King James Bible was the decision to remove the above section of Psalms 14 in bold.

Psalm 111:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, a good understanding has all they that do thereafter: the praise of it endureth forever, [praise the Lord for the returning again of Aggeus and Zachary the prophets.]

King James Bible of 1611 came out, the verse was removed

John 7:29
I know him, and if I see that I know him not, I shall be like to you, a liar; but I know him, for of him I am, and he sent me.

Removed by the King James

Verses added

2 Samuel 21:19
And there was again a battle in Gob with the Philistines, where Elhanan the son of Jaareoregim, a Bethlehemite, slew [the brother of] Goliath the Gittite, the staff of whose spear was like a weaver’s beam.

Majority of all modern Bible have equally refused to include it, some did.

Mark 15:3
And the chief priests accused him of many things: [but he answered nothing.]

John 8:6
This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, [as though he heard them not.]

. No previous English Bibles included it and virtually no modern Bibles,only exception to this I know of is the 1833 Webster Translation

The King James Bible Removed Verses

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-09 11:59:37 

You raise issues that question your own belief... In this short discussion from last night to now you have qlready contradicted yourself many times and i have just ignored it...

For example...this

If God is so powerful, does He need the sun and the stars and the moon to make a day? ...is he not bright enough to go Poof and we have everything that is required?


And this....
Because the universe also began as a singularity, time itself could not have existed before the Big Bang. Hawking's answer, then, to what happened before the Big Bang is, "there was no time before the Big Bang."


So where did the energy come from that Created the Big Bang?

How did that energy form from nothing?

How is the concept of time, volume etc breached by nothing?

The very same questions you aply to Creation can be applied to your theory.

Then many questions answered by Creation are still a mystery in Evolution.

How can you claim time has a hold on God but not on a Big Bang?

Where does it claim time has a hold on God?

How can a being who created all these things need them to exist?

Yet Science claims that something cannot come from nothing yet they claim there was jothing, then Bang! Something.

Explain...

 
sgtdjones 2018-12-09 12:07:24 

In reply to Ayenmol

I stopped reading after that!


A weakness!

To learn, must one not read what the other side is writing?.

Then assimilate such, then look at it, put it in context to your beliefs. Are their differences?

Its how I learn.

lol

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-09 12:10:55 

In reply to sgtdjones

Lol...um...did they change the meaning of the Bible by removing these verses?

Why did they remove them? Show me how any of the additions or removals in this particular canon has vvhanged any fundamental teaching in the Bible!

Also, you do understand that the Bible, as you said were written by men's hands. Most of them did not know the other.

They were copied and there were, some queetions as to which Books were inspired by God and which were not.

By the time the King James translation was started all info on these Books were not present.

Omissions were made later as it became clear through the discovery of older text where a few copyist made errors or sought to add to the canon.

Or are you of the Belief that the King James version is a gift from God and not an attempt to translate the scriptures with what info was available at the time?

Plus please tell me how any of that is relevant in the grand scheme of things?

There are many books that some tried to clqim were part of the Bible canon that has been rejected!

There are some passages found in some Bibles that were not in older copies of Books that are left out by other Bible scholars and translators.

Fact is there is nothing you cqn find in the 66 books written by 40 writers over 3500 years that has been accepted as Canon that can be truly pounted at as worrisome in the slightest.

You are simply attempting to find any nonsense you can without truly vvetting it to understand itxs meaning or value in your wild attempt to raise lies about the Bible.

Most of the junk you posted above you just read in one source material...you have no idea who compiled it, why and with what purpose and the opposiye arguments that render that entire argument null and void.

In short you are simply flinging poo at the subject to see what sticks!

I am not surprised as most of your contributions here involve your attempt to seem cultured. You are ready to accept any piece valued by another person or old as unique and worth spending millions on.

Yet you do not value that which is the oldest most valuable to man and held in high esteem by most ...go figure.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-09 12:31:14 

Anyway..,am just wasting my time with you people answering inane questions presented by persons who have provided zero basis for their beliefs.

All you all can do is search the internet for any nonsense written by any idiot without basis, just that it sounds good!

While the very same issues you raise with the Bible exist doubly witht he nonsense you blieve.

You can never of course answer a basic question on any of the drivel you post.

It is well established that it takes as much if not more faith to believe in Evolution than Creation!

And there is no proof in Nature of Evolution, every bit of Creation!

Logic stands with Creation/D3sign!

Never, ever has order come from chaos!

 
sgtdjones 2018-12-09 12:55:57 

In reply to Ayenmol

Yet you do not value that which is the oldest most valuable to man and held in high esteem by most ...go figure.


How can this be the only Oldest book and held in high esteem?

So, Maharishi Vyasa is the person who wrote the Bhagavad Gita. It is said that it was written during the wars which took in the Kurukshetra about 5,120 years ago in 3,102 BCE.The Bhagavad- Gita, is about five thousand years old.

The Bhagavad Gita is an ancient Indian text that became an important work of Hindu tradition in terms of both literature and philosophy.
The earliest translations of this work from Sanskrit into English were made around 1795 CE by Sir Charles Wilkins. The name Bhagavad Gita means “the song of the Lord”.
The Gita, is a 700-verse Hindu scripture that is part of the epic Mahabharata. It is a call for selfless action


See you only have a tunnel vision, how can you learn?

 
Runs 2018-12-09 12:58:02 

In reply to sgtdjones

Good job boss, I enjoyed your rebuttals.

 
sgtdjones 2018-12-09 14:14:07 

In reply to Ayenmol

I am not surprised as most of your contributions here involve your attempt to seem cultured.


Wow nasty shot at me.Ouch

Tell me why would anyone want to come on a website to show they are cultured to individuals they may never meet. Such notations as above are posted when in a debate one is cornered and looking foolish, they resort to character assassination.

When I joined, I noted that I read a lot. If I find things of interest, I will post them to get reactions from individuals, showing the other side. I view such as my process to learn.

I copy and paste such articles, prevents me from regurgitating the topic or reinventing the wheel.
Posting a link to such. I have been attacked here by some for such practice which I ignore.

I will not try an convince anyone to change, it is not
the way I was brought up.

 
black 2018-12-09 17:24:57 

In reply to sgtdjones


Tell me why would anyone want to come on a website to show they are cultured to individuals they may never meet. Such notations as above are posted when in a debate one is cornered and looking foolish, they resort to character assassination .


Typical Ayenmol.

 
pelon 2018-12-09 20:35:58 

It is ungodly to be closed-minded.

Organized Religion requires believers to reject ANY other option or scientific input on the creation of the universe. We are fortunate to have and coexist with these type of people. The are a very important cog in the wheel of humanity. Order, structure, moral and civil obedience are the PROs... the CONS are few but significant, mostly ignorance, intolerance of others and epic wars in the name of "their god".

Let it be that Ayenmol has a right to believe in faith based "facts"... as it has worked for centuries... and will continue to be for some time. There is great comfort and company of that ilk, and I suspect he needs it.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-10 07:29:02 

In reply to pelon

Not a single War has been started or participated in by one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Guaranteed. Or blessed by them in fact!


Atheist don't fight in Wars?

Who creates bombs? Not scientist?

Your willingness to make these inaccurate claims shows your own close mindedness.

Btw, all these hate filled post are started by the so-called open-minded Evolutionist.

Go figure.

When was the last time you heard a Religious person put an arrow into the heart of an Atheist.

And the Atheist may actually be advocating for death.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-10 07:37:36 

Here's a doozy for you.

Scientists themselves have verified, well beyond any evidence of Evolution, that a fetus is alive from conception.

Yet how many fight for the right to kill off these lives?

How many lives have been snuffed out for selfish reasons?

 
black 2018-12-10 08:28:02 

In reply to Ayenmol

Yet how many fight for the right to kill off these lives?


That is disingenuous to phrase is that way, people fight for choice because they are realistic and know that there's a chance that baby will not be taken care of if he/she is unwanted. Choice is what they are fighting for.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-10 08:42:35 

In reply to black

Really? I see. So then why engage in an activity that has the possibility of resulting in you gaking a life?

Should i go speeding on the street? Should i drive drunk?

There is a slight possibility that i might end someone's life... does that make my pleasure more important?

See how easy it is to make excuses for things that you condone?

But you draw the line at imaginary people, right? That's what really is a problem!

 
black 2018-12-10 08:46:19 

In reply to Ayenmol

What you fail to realize is that this (abortion) is going to be done, regardless.

It's better to have a safe place to perform abortions, than in someone's basement.

 
sgtdjones 2018-12-10 08:50:54 

In reply to Ayenmol

In the good book it reveals that, despite authoring the commandment “Thou shalt not kill,”

The Bible says, "Thou shalt not murder," yet God says to Joshua, "Go in and clean house, and don't leave anything breathing! Don't leave a donkey, child, woman, old man or old woman breathing. Wipe out Jericho."

Asa, King of Judah, one of the 12 tribes of Israel, begged the Lord to stop an army of “a thousand thousand” Ethiopians.
“The Lord killed the Ethiopians … they were destroyed before the Lord,” it states in 2 Chronicles 14:12-13.

God doesn’t discriminate: the Lord kills 500,000 of his own men, simply because other Israelites ask him to,2 Chronicles 13:17.

David buys a daughter from Saul, the first king of Israel, and make her his wife. he gifts him 200 Philistine foreskins.… And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife.” (2 Samuel 18:27). Quite the dowry.

Your God...I kill … I wound … I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh. Deuteronomy 32.39-42

Would most believers stop believing in the Bible if they knew what was in it?

God’s killings: The stories are absurd from a historical standpoint; they could not have happened the way they are told in the Bible, then the God of the Bible is not the kind of god that believers pretend him to be.

 
pelon 2018-12-10 10:25:34 

In reply to Ayenmol


Not a single War has been started or participated in by one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Nether has Rastafarians or countless other religious subsets..... what is your point? You want to wear your JW badge proud???? Do so, but don't be ignorant to organised religions role in wars over centuries. Leave JW propaganda outta this.

Scientists themselves have verified, well beyond any evidence of Evolution, that a fetus is alive from conception.

What an ignorant utterance.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-10 10:31:39 

In reply to pelon

Really? Rastafarians don't or has never served in War or violent acts?

Laughable. Dude, get a clue.

I see those who love to stand on Scientific theory shun scientific fact.

Not surprising. Only care about facts when it suits their purpose.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-10 10:35:13 

You want to wear your JW badge proud???? Do so, but don't be ignorant to organised religions role in wars over centuries. Leave JW propaganda outta this.


You are the last person to talk about ignorance...I did not say Organized Religion has no role.

You are the one blaming it all on Religion.

Capitalism, Nationalism, Racialism, etc all play a role.

So has science! Probably the biggest roles since they develop the mass destruuction instruments.

Btw it is a fact that Jehovah's Witnesses do not support War efforts or Politics in any Country around the Globe, but you are too insincere to admit that.

If you were conscripted to fight in a war would you?

So you are the myopic self serving ignant one.
So your assertion that Religion is responsible for Wars is gross negligence at best and flat lie at it's core!

Particularly in arguing the merits of Religion over Science in human history.

 
pelon 2018-12-10 10:50:59 

In reply to Ayenmol
Dear Brother of your own faith.

Btw it is a fact that Jehovah's Witnesses do not support War efforts or Politics in any Country around the Globe

It is a fact. They do not.
They also don't allow blood transfusions, nor donate blood. They don't use a cross, they don't celebrate holidays and MOST IMPORTANT TO THE INDIVIDUAL: They believe The Faithful are rewarded with a Paradise upon death.

Taking it a step further:
I love entertaining JW on a Saturday.

I doubt many here actually INVITE JW into their homes. I do. Sit for almost 1 hr at a time.... Ayenmol I would sit with you for hours and host you with open doors...

I take the Watchtower and Awake (freely available) and read with delight the utopia they (JW) portray ... especially the "after life". Beautiful stuff. So imaginative and idealistic. I hope you get there bro too when yuh rass is dead.

A special "conditioning" is required to become a JW, and I am happy it's YOU and NOT ME that took that path.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-10 10:55:20 

In reply to pelon

They believe The Faithful are rewarded with a Paradise upon death.


Wrong, but progress.

Ayenmol I would sit with you for hours and host you with open doors...


I would not. Am not wasting time with people who simply want to argue...

A special "conditioning" is required to become a JW, and I am happy it's YOU and NOT ME that took that path.


Everything in life requires that, even Athletes to be successful needs a certain mindset.

We believe what we say and live what we believe, call us foolish, but we are no hypocrites!

What do you stand for?

 
pelon 2018-12-10 11:13:27 

In reply to Ayenmol


I would not. Am not wasting time with people who simply want to argue...


Argue??? Why would I want to argue with you in your company? No no... I want to discuss YOUR views. They are very worthy of discussion not arguing. I don't argue with people....

Now, to be clear, disagreeing with your views is my RIGHT.... but come now, no need to argue ... that is not gentlemanly.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-10 11:18:15 

In reply to pelon

We do not tell people our 'Views', we teach the Bible.

We do not go to the same areas every Saturday so I already know you are not being truthful.

 
pelon 2018-12-10 11:36:52 

In reply to Ayenmol

We do not go to the same areas every Saturday so I already know you are not being truthful.

Listen bro.... the same facking man and woman come in my area every month for the past 2 years and on some occasions he brings "new witness" to my house...

maybe he belongs to the badass section of JW that goes to the same neighborhood lol lol lol .... but don't tell me he's not been here month after month for more than 2 years.

Man, why do you get so uptight.... relax.... no one is arguing with you.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-10 12:26:45 

In reply to pelon

If he is in the neighborhood everyday then he is visiting someone there that is interested in learning the Bible's message.

Why waste the man's time by having making repeated visits to you when you don't believe in the slightest what he is saying?

Am not surprised you would be so selfish and dishonorable.

 
pelon 2018-12-10 12:31:05 

In reply to Ayenmol

Am not surprised you would be so selfish and dishonorable.
Preach brother Preach.... you got him.... selfish and dishonorable. Dat is pelon. You GOT HIM NOW!!!! rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes

 
nick2020 2018-12-10 12:37:28 

In reply to pelon

Ayenmol has to be Batquake!

 
np 2018-12-10 12:54:22 

Gentle peeps including Ayenmol ....

we all do have convictions. Ayen is willing to hold fast to his, and so are we who differ from his idealistic approach. The man has over the years stretched the bible thin trying to convince some to believe in a "pipedream". Ayen .. it won't work bro!!

There is YET, nothing Ayen has said or written that can change anyone's desire to NOT BELIEVE in a god, or in the BIBLE has it is written and overwritten, and changed. Those of us who have come to that position did go to church or had some belief as kids. BUT time and learning processes have given new info, data, revelations based in experimentation to CAUSE a retake/relook on things.

Mine started in my early teens when i questioned WHY so many different religions and church types WHEN there is only ONE GOD supposedly.
Why not a unified CHURCH ... I could not get any answers from the CATlic priests, the Methodists, Presbyterians, JWs ... And I decided single-handedly to give up on that SHIT. And, as my thoughts develop through final years in high school my preference for things science took precedence. I've never been deceived by the SCIENCE - you do the work the results will show or NOt show (if the evidence is not there) ...

I've read Ayen's stuff over these years, and NOT ONE BIT of it is convincing OR gives any inclination that would cause a change in my views, and I'd NOT ever try to change his views. What I find is that AYEN thinks he is super correct and should reprimand us who SEE things differently.

It is only the individual who can make that change, see that revelation Ayen. I'd never ask you to not believe in your god. And so I ask of you to NOT ask me to change my mind, I will NOT.

I've rebuffed enough JWs, and others at my gate ... one couple even left weeping when I was done -- I offered them not to try to change my views, and I'd NOT ever try to change theirs but to give them an alternate view that they too need to respect.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-10 12:57:13 

In reply to np

I have? Here it is I thought I was simply defending my belief from those starting infinite treads to declare my convictions wortless!


ow many treads have I started in an attempt to convert anyone to my belief?

 
np 2018-12-10 13:25:17 

In reply to Ayenmol

YEP .. if NOT directly, then indirectly and subtly ... browbeating some folks who might yet be convinced. You must RE-read some of your positions over the YEARS bro!!

Like the many JW's I've come across ... they do not willingly agree that they are on a mission to CONVINCE!! and so are you right now ... as well so too, are many in the very overzealous religious faiths, always trying to influence a change. I'd just laugh at them.

I do not browbeat - one either likes, don't like, agree, disagree and MOVE on. I moved on, and left them alone, when the catlic priest, anglican ministers, presbyterians, methodists, and MY PARENTS had no convincing arguments. Then too my grandparents tried to get me NOT to talk to my cousins etc. etc. on the "topic".
But frankly, I was'nt interested in convincing no one but me.

 
black 2018-12-10 13:41:21 

In reply to Ayenmol

ow many treads have I started in an attempt to convert anyone to my belief?


That's because you know it's not going to work here.

But wait till this evening, "door knocking time" lol

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-10 14:06:07 

In reply to np

Dude this is a discussion forum. I ave a right to defend my belief and expose the hypocrisy of those who claim to hate intolerance yet keep assaulting those who hold an opinion opposite their own.

These miscreants also claim to have evidence of their belief while I do not, but refuse to provide any such!

I simply expose the liars for what they are!

Fact is you are on teir side so you are here to support them in such.

Otherwise they could post till infinity and you would never say boo...so don't try to act partisan!

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-10 14:08:40 

In reply to black

That's because you know it's not going to work here.


It's because the masses cannot be changed....Regardless!

Even those who claim to believe in God!

I have never tried to change anyone here, just expose their Hypocrisy!

Which I have done multiple times!

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-10 14:37:01 

You know what chaps my behind?

You all will sit here and complain and moan and cry; 'How could anyone not see the hypocrisy in Donald Trump, he is this, that and the other, yet xyz put him in office.

Then when someone of your own countrymen come here and spill lies or twist facts or brag about indecent behavior, as long as that person is your friend or shares your ideals, you do the exact same thing, you ignore their failings!

That's Hypocrisy!

Two sides of the same coin!

 
black 2018-12-10 14:51:38 

In reply to Ayenmol


ou know what chaps my behind? 

You all will sit here and complain and moan and cry; 'How could anyone not see the hypocrisy in Donald Trump, he is this, that and the other, yet xyz put him in office. 

Then when someone of your own countrymen come here and spill lies or twist facts or brag about indecent behavior, as long as that person is your friend or shares your ideals, you do the exact same thing, you ignore their failings! 

That's Hypocrisy! 

Two sides of the same coin!


Big difference, one is an elected official and the other is not.

DT has to answer to us, the other guy (assumed it's me) don't have to answer to anyone.

 
sgtdjones 2018-12-10 15:08:20 

In reply to np

I offered them not to try to change my views, and I'd NOT ever try to change theirs but to give them an alternate view that they too need to respect.


Much respect for the above.

I have found Bible thumpers have tunnel vision and see things only that the book tells them based on their pastor's version after explanation and summary.
They will not consider any alternatives, thus my notation
of a cult status to various religions.

One of the reasons I have avoided religion and politics
based on similarities.

In our democracy, Ayenmol has the freedom to his beliefs and worship. My debates with him, I am trying to show him, hoping he has an open mind to see the other side. He becomes defensive if an alternate position is shown.

In conclusion, not asking him to change just have an open mind to listen, comprehend, assimilate so he will not do as others have tried to change the population.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-10 15:18:42 

In reply to black

Big difference, one is an elected official and the other is not.


Whatever...If Obama had been the one with baggage you all would excuse it too. None of you thought Clinton shoulda been impeached!

There are still some here angry that Cosby got convicted!

If Franken had decided to stay in Office most of the Democrat leaners here woulda backed him!

Hypocrites!

IF the dope who was killed by the Indian tribe for simply trying to talk to them was Black and the 'tribe' was White suburbanites you all would be in an uproar!

Hypocrisy. You only upset because you already don't like the person involved, not because of what he is involved in!

 
pelon 2018-12-10 15:23:47 

In reply to sgtdjones


In our democracy, Ayenmol has the freedom to his beliefs and worship..... hoping he has an open mind to see the other side.
Well stated

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-10 15:30:42 

In reply to pelon

You are the one most needing that advice. I have numerous times here defended what I believe. It is others who can't ever state their belief or answer a basic question about their belief, but poke fun or deride others belief.

Of course the same people who are finally speaking up about tolerance are the same people who nwould never speak up and tell these offenders they are going too far.

Or their behavior is intolerant!

They only speak up when they tired of hearing from the ones they disagree with.

Like a Child being teased and bullied relentlessly and the teachers don't sy a thing, then when the victim fights back, then the teachers claim he a trouble maker!

 
np 2018-12-10 16:01:37 

In reply to Ayenmol

I'm not acting partisan boss .. I do reject "godism" -- and not afraid to friggin SAY SO!! U can take that to the BANK and get a cheque!! big grin big grin

It will be signed by Steadfastly Irreligious

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-10 16:08:33 

In reply to np

Um u have stated it before...and have i ever argued with your position beyond that?

 
pelon 2018-12-10 16:14:20 

In reply to Ayenmol

I accept and respect that Jehovah's Witnesses gives you comfort, understanding and strength in you faith and worship. I accept that you are a good person, confined to one dimension of thought.

Furthermore:
From today onward, I ABANDON commonsense..... I return to Genesis with new understanding (thanks to you): god made Eve from the rib of Adam (not sugar and spice like I foolishly believed before).... forgive me.

Thank you and best wishes.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-10 16:26:50 

In reply to pelon

I do not have one dimension of thought, not that I know what multiple dimensions of thought is. But I guess it sounds good!

You either believe that God is real and search for his guidance.

Or you do not and choose another path. You can't have it both ways.

I choose Jehovah!

We came from somewhere...Big Bang or intelligent designer, we did not make ourselves.

Even my faith and God teaches that we have free will and he will be the judge.
So believe what you must.

 
black 2018-12-10 16:29:19 

In reply to Ayenmol

We came from somewhere...Big Bang or intelligent designer, we did not make ourselves


So who made God?

You're not going to escape that question when you make statements like that.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-10 16:32:21 

In reply to black

Who made the Big Bang?

 
black 2018-12-10 16:37:48 

In reply to Ayenmol

I asked the question first.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-10 16:43:38 

In reply to black

rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes

There it is...

 
sgtdjones 2018-12-10 18:40:26 

In reply to Ayenmol

In 1927, the Belgian Catholic priest Georges Lemaître proposed an expanding model for the universe to explain the observed redshifts of spiral nebulae, and calculated the Hubble law. He based his theory on the work of Einstein and De Sitter, and independently derived Friedmann's equations for an expanding universe.

The Big Bang is a scientific theory about how the universe started, and then made the stars and galaxies we see today. The universe began as a very hot, small, and dense superforce (the mix of the four fundamental forces), with no stars, atoms, form, or structure (called a "singularity").

Soon after the Big Bang, primordial protons and neutrons formed from the quark-gluon plasma of the early Universe as it cooled below two trillion degrees. A few minutes later, in a process known as Big Bang nucleosynthesis, nuclei formed from the primordial protons and neutrons.


Just like your theory that JW followers go to Paradise.

 
Ayenmol 2018-12-10 20:39:35 

In reply to sgtdjones

rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes rolleyes