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Genetics, Race and Intelligence

 
Casper 2019-01-02 02:14:32 

He still thinks he’s right.

It has been more than a decade since James D. Watson, a founder of modern genetics, landed in a kind of professional exile by suggesting that black people are intrinsically less intelligent than whites.

In 2007, Dr. Watson, who shared a 1962 Nobel Prize for describing the double-helix structure of DNA, told a British journalist that he was “inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa” because “all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours, whereas all the testing says, not really.”

Moreover, he added, although he wished everyone were equal, “people who have to deal with black employees find this not true.”

Dr. Watson’s comments reverberated around the world, and he was forced to retire from his job as chancellor of the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory on Long Island, although he retains an office there.

 
uton 2019-01-02 04:01:02 

In reply to Casper

There are four primary reasons Europeans rose to power and conquered the natives of North and South America and not the other way around:
1) the continental differences in the plants and animals available for domestication, which led to more food and larger populations in Europe and Asia.
2) the rate of diffusion of agriculture, technology and innovation due to the geographic orientation of Europe and Asia (east-west) compared to the Americas (north-south).
3) the ease of intercontinental diffusion between Europe, Asia, and Africa.
4) the differences in continental size, which led to differences in total population size and technology diffusion


Diamond argues that Eurasian civilization is not so much a product of ingenuity, but of opportunity and necessity. That is, civilization is not created out of superior intelligence, but is the result of a chain of developments, each made possible by certain preconditions.

The first step towards civilization is the move from nomadic hunter-gatherer to rooted agrarian society. Several conditions are necessary for this transition to occur: access to high-carbohydrate vegetation that endures storage; a climate dry enough to allow storage; and access to animals docile enough for domestication and versatile enough to survive captivity. Control of crops and livestock leads to food surpluses. Surpluses free people to specialize in activities other than sustenance and support population growth. The combination of specialization and population growth leads to the accumulation of social and technologic innovations which build on each other. Large societies develop ruling classes and supporting bureaucracies, which in turn lead to the organization of nation-states and empires.[2]

Although agriculture arose in several parts of the world, Eurasia gained an early advantage due to the greater availability of suitable plant and animal species for domestication. In particular, Eurasia has barley, two varieties of wheat, and three protein-rich pulses for food; flax for textiles; and goats, sheep, and cattle. Eurasian grains were richer in protein, easier to sow, and easier to store than American maize or tropical bananas.

As early Western Asian civilizations began to trade, they found additional useful animals in adjacent territories, most notably horses and donkeys for use in transport. Diamond identifies 13 species of large animals over 100 pounds (45 kg) domesticated in Eurasia, compared with just one in South America (counting the llama and alpaca as breeds within the same species) and none at all in the rest of the world. Australia and North America suffered from a lack of useful animals due to extinction, probably by human hunting, shortly after the end of the Pleistocene, whilst the only domesticated animals in New Guinea came from the East Asian mainland during the Austronesian settlement some 4,000–5,000 years ago. Sub-Saharan biological relatives of the horse including zebras and onagers proved untameable; and although African elephants can be tamed, it is very difficult to breed them in captivity;[2][3] Diamond describes the small number of domesticated species (14 out of 148 "candidates") as an instance of the Anna Karenina principle: many promising species have just one of several significant difficulties that prevent domestication. He also makes the intriguing argument that all large mammals that could be domesticated, have been.[4]

Eurasians domesticated goats and sheep for hides, clothing, and cheese; cows for milk; bullocks for tillage of fields and transport; and benign animals such as pigs and chickens. Large domestic animals such as horses and camels offered the considerable military and economic advantages of mobile transport.


Continental axes according to Jared Diamond in Guns, Germs, and Steel.
Eurasia's large landmass and long east-west distance increased these advantages. Its large area provided it with more plant and animal species suitable for domestication, and allowed its people to exchange both innovations and diseases. Its east-west orientation allowed breeds domesticated in one part of the continent to be used elsewhere through similarities in climate and the cycle of seasons. The Americas had difficulty adapting crops domesticated at one latitude for use at other latitudes (and, in North America, adapting crops from one side of the Rocky Mountains to the other). Similarly, Africa was fragmented by its extreme variations in climate from north to south: crops and animals that flourished in one area never reached other areas where they could have flourished, because they could not survive the intervening environment. Europe was the ultimate beneficiary of Eurasia's east-west orientation: in the first millennium BCE, the Mediterranean areas of Europe adopted Southwestern Asia's animals, plants, and agricultural techniques; in the first millennium CE, the rest of Europe followed suit.[2][3]


Link Text

 
Casper 2019-01-02 07:54:45 

In reply to uton

Thanks Uton for that addition to this discussion.

 
nick2020 2019-01-02 08:56:51 

In reply to Casper

Are blacks athletically superior to whites?

 
Drapsey 2019-01-02 09:10:02 

In reply to nick2020

Are blacks athletically superior to whites?

Jimmy the Greek got fired from his Sports-TV gig for asserting (or was it insinuating?) the above.

Be careful with that subject. wink

 
Tryangle 2019-01-02 09:18:36 

This is pretty cool. May have to find a copy of the book itself.

 
JayMor 2019-01-02 09:20:12 

In reply to Casper and Uton

Good show! Thanks, guys.

(Cassie, 'sup? So because W.I. can't even dispose of Bang yuh abandon dem? HeHeHe!)

--Æ.

 
nick2020 2019-01-02 09:23:40 

In reply to Drapsey

Fair.

Life is odd like that I guess. I have heard a few black people say that black people are genetically superior athletically. Cite twitch muscles and such science much too high for my pay grade.

I would figure to have that line of thinking opens a large can of worms.

 
Norm 2019-01-02 09:40:10 

In reply to uton

Doesn't that history presume that Europeans or "Western Asians" always dominated the Africa-Asia-Europe landmass, and is therefore just a eurocentric view intended to promote an implied superiority of Europeans?

Genghis Khan's hordes and their descendants might have had us telling a far different story, if they had a bit more luck during the invasions of said "Western Asia" and parts of Europe.

Not to mention, the African movement into Asia and Europe, which led to the wiping out of the Neanderthals and other people then living in Europe and Asia, is never factored into these grandiose histories that always center around European triumphs.

 
Khaga 2019-01-02 09:46:59 

In reply to nick2020

You are not easy at all. lol

 
black 2019-01-02 10:01:27 

In reply to nick2020

Life is odd like that I guess. I have heard a few black people say that black people are genetically superior athletically. Cite twitch muscles and such science much too high for my pay grade.


Be specific.

Fast or slow twitch? 

 
birdseye 2019-01-02 10:55:42 

In reply to nick2020

Are blacks athletically superior to whites?

Or is it knowing that athletics was the only arena in which they might be able to competitively have a chance – you therefore work to develop those skills ----don’t forget Katherine Johnson, the black female genius engineer in the early NASA space program, played by Taraji Henson of EMPIRE fame had to run half a mile to use the bathroom ---

Almost all of academia use to be off-limits for all women at one time – why? Because they were considered intellectually incapable – a female engineer is still looked at as an oddity --- so stop being a proponent of false dogma ---- THINK!

 
Khaga 2019-01-02 11:22:54 

In reply to birdseye


Or is it knowing that athletics was the only arena in which they might be able to competitively have a chance


That's not the same as asserting

Black people are superior to all other races in Athletics

 
birdseye 2019-01-02 11:44:05 

In reply to Khaga

That's not the same as asserting
seem like what they call "A distinction without a difference" a type of logical fallacy wink wink

 
black 2019-01-02 11:47:16 

This is a debate that is going to go on forever. There are brilliant people in all races.

Some cultures (like Chinese) put a lot of emphasis on education to to point of excluding all other activities.

Is that good or bad?

 
JahJah 2019-01-02 11:57:11 

In reply to black

Some cultures (like Chinese) put a lot of emphasis on education to to point of excluding all other activities.


Isn't China good at sports? And I don't mean just one sport.

I remember them always being at the top at Olympics. They indeed put the billions they have to great use, no? Well rounded, you say?

 
birdseye 2019-01-02 11:59:05 

It wasn’t that long ago that blacks didn’t have the ‘necessities’ to be a quarterback, a coach, a manager, a catcher, a west Indies cricket captain,….etc. etc.

 
birdseye 2019-01-02 12:05:32 

In reply to JahJah

I remember them always being at the top at Olympics. They indeed put the billions they have to great use, no? Well rounded, you say?
No telling the star you could have been if your country’s government had identified you as a soccer talent and sent you to a soccer academy in spain and pay for your development wink wink

 
black 2019-01-02 12:06:11 

In reply to JahJah

True, but the Chinese athletes are more "State sponsored" than anything else.

They are even going as far as genetically engineering athletes for sports.

There was an article on this recently.

 
uton 2019-01-02 12:11:08 

In reply to nick2020


Are blacks athletically superior to whites?


Not in Ice hockey, lacrosse, Curling, Synchronised Swimming, Ice Skating, Skiing, Gaelic Football, Swimming, Gymnastics, Handball, Hiking, Archery, Volleyball, and Squash.

In Athletics, there have been multiple Asian runners that have run under 10 seconds and in the recent past, the top sprint hurdler was a Chinese national. There has never been a European to run under 10 sec in the 100 meters.

 
black 2019-01-02 12:12:34 

In reply to birdseye

It wasn’t that long ago that blacks didn’t have the ‘necessities’ to be a quarterback


I was brought up here and I told people it was nonsense. The are 2 reasons for more white quarterbacks.

1. White kids are groomed for that role


2. More White quarterbacks in high school equals more in the NFL.

That is starting to change, as evident in the increase in Black QB's in the league

 
uton 2019-01-02 12:12:58 

In reply to black

True, but the Chinese athletes are more "State sponsored" than anything else.

They are even going as far as genetically engineering athletes for sports.



How does that differ from East Germany before the Berlin Wall fell or the USSR before the dissolution?

 
uton 2019-01-02 12:16:01 

In reply to Norm

Genghis Khan's hordes and their descendants might have had us telling a far different story, if they had a bit more luck during the invasions of said "Western Asia" and parts of Europe.

Not to mention, the African movement into Asia and Europe, which led to the wiping out of the Neanderthals and other people then living in Europe and Asia, is never factored into these grandiose histories that always center around European triumphs.


The recent victors are allowed to write or make right history as they see it.

 
birdseye 2019-01-02 12:18:02 

In reply to uton

Not in Ice hockey, lacrosse, Curling, Synchronised Swimming, Ice Skating, Skiing, Gaelic Football, Swimming, Gymnastics, Handball, Hiking, Archery, Volleyball, and Squash.
There you go --- blacks excel in sports where the initial (childhood) development stages are relatively inexpensive – the marathon runners from Kenya and the basketball players from the inner cities

 
black 2019-01-02 12:26:20 

In reply to uton


How does that differ from East Germany before the Berlin Wall fell or the USSR before the dissolution?


Not a lot of differences, they were notorious for doping.

 
uton 2019-01-02 12:29:45 

In reply to birdseye

marathon runners from Kenya


Long distance runners from Kenya usually have a geographical advantage (Rift Valley) over others even other Kenyans from low lying areas.

 
DAVE400 2019-01-02 12:43:04 

Surprised that this thread ain't enter the gutter yet..

 
nick2020 2019-01-02 12:50:29 

In reply to DAVE400

No one wants to go the way of TUS/Batquake/Surya/Spudz/Redbaron.

 
nick2020 2019-01-02 12:53:01 

In reply to uton

Not in Ice hockey, lacrosse, Curling, Synchronised Swimming, Ice Skating, Skiing, Gaelic Football, Swimming, Gymnastics, Handball, Hiking, Archery, Volleyball, and Squash.


I hate to have to defend a position that I did not endorse but I think Mr. Twitch Muscles would argue that blacks do not have enough background in those sports and like Tiger Woods (is he black question mark) dominating golf (a sport you did not mention) it is only a matter of time.

I dunno.

 
birdseye 2019-01-02 13:06:46 

In reply to nick2020

Blacks do not have numbers in hockey – but google PK Suban and you will find a black on top of the chart - --- Grant Fuhr is black a hockey hall of famer

 
steveo 2019-01-02 13:07:07 

In reply to nick2020

Are blacks athletically superior to whites?


Did slavery play a part in this?

 
uton 2019-01-02 13:12:14 

In reply to nick2020

blacks do not have enough background in those sports and like Tiger Woods (is he black question mark) dominating golf (a sport you did not mention) it is only a matter of time.


I guess the question then is what is "black"? Tiger seems to be at least 50% Asian with a mixture of Caucasian, Native American and Sub-Saharan Afro genes. Maybe culturally Tiger can be viewed as black but that in itself is questionable.

 
uton 2019-01-02 13:17:16 

In reply to nick2020

I hate to have to defend a position that I did not endorse but I think Mr. Twitch Muscles would argue that blacks do not have enough background in those sport

Fast twitch fibers and low body fat will not help you in swimming or middle to long distance running. Africans have the greatest differences in DNA of any group so grouping them as one is probably not wise as the genetic makeup of East Africans to West Africans is probably highly varied.

 
uton 2019-01-02 13:20:45 

In reply to steveo


Are blacks athletically superior to whites?



Did slavery play a part in this?


The survival of the fittest theory. I am not a geneticist but couldn't nutrition and opportunity explain why Afro people in the New World excel athletically over Sub-Saharan Africans?

 
black 2019-01-02 13:36:56 

In reply to uton


The survival of the fittest theory. I am not a geneticist but couldn't nutrition and opportunity explain why Afro people in the New World excel athletically over Sub-Saharan Africans?


That does not answer the question of Blacks being athletically superior to other races.

 
uton 2019-01-02 13:49:53 

In reply to black

That does not answer the question of Blacks being athletically superior to other races.


My point is hunger or opportunity may play a critical part here, why aren't any top sprinters from East Africa? Aren't they Black?
Why is the 200-meter sprinter (Wade Van Niekerk) an African of Cape Malay ancestry?
Weren't Jews the "blacks" of sports previously?
Explain why the cricket teams with the most Afro players have been at the bottom of the ladder in the recent past smile?

 
black 2019-01-02 13:58:49 

In reply to uton

Explain why the cricket teams with the most Afro players have been at the bottom of the ladder in the recent past


Explain why they were at the top?

Just being devil's advocate here. lol

 
steveo 2019-01-02 14:17:47 

In reply to uton

The survival of the fittest theory. I am not a geneticist but couldn't nutrition and opportunity explain why Afro people in the New World excel athletically over Sub-Saharan Africans?


I am thinking more "unnatural" selection where the most physically gifted were preferred

 
birdseye 2019-01-02 14:27:43 

In reply to steveo

I am thinking more "unnatural" selection where the most physically gifted were preferred

Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not: nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not: the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent....Calvin Coolidge

i know this wont dilute your attempted subterfuge

wink wink

 
nick2020 2019-01-02 14:32:39 

In reply to uton

Maybe culturally Tiger can be viewed as black but that in itself is questionable.


You may have to explain that to the people who call him black.

 
nick2020 2019-01-02 14:34:51 

In reply to uton

Fast twitch fibers and low body fat will not help you in swimming or middle to long distance running.


True but since in the latter you do have excellence by blacks in marathons maybe the fiction became fact to the proponents of athletic superiority.

 
Larr Pullo 2019-01-02 14:41:03 

In reply to Tryangle

It's also available as a three part documentary on Amazon. Was first shown in 2005 or 2006 I think.

 
steveo 2019-01-02 14:56:10 

In reply to birdseye

i know this wont dilute your attempted subterfuge


So you are saying determination is overwhelmingly abundant in the WI, thats a huge stretch to say about a place that did not erect a single pyramid lol lol

 
birdseye 2019-01-02 15:00:17 

In reply to steveo


So you are saying determination is overwhelmingly abundant in the WI, thats a huge stretch to say about a place that did not erect a single pyramid
Uh uh – you stump me here -- big grin

 
steveo 2019-01-02 15:01:30 

In reply to birdseye

pyramid is an allegory

 
birdseye 2019-01-02 15:21:02 

In reply to steveo

pyramid is an allegory

The Caribbean don’t have to build symbols – we not need a metaphor for anything --- as Shaggy se - (Nothing can't mash up me, a mi bonafide) --- but U know dat wink wink

 
steveo 2019-01-02 16:10:31 

In reply to birdseye

OK big grin big grin

Dont get me wrong, I do not discount the excellence produced by the WI, I am simply saying that I do not think that we are that much more determined than any other region

If you want to see determination, look at China

 
birdseye 2019-01-02 17:01:59 

In reply to steveo

If you want to see determination, look at China

Wow – that’s an interesting juxtaposition ---china had powerful families/dynasties –china had the longest lasting empire in history. China became a united nation. ----china boasts a empire ----the post pre or post-colonial Caribbean had no such legacy to build on…… on a more micro level, percentage wise, the may have more citizens move from extreme poverty to create sustainable lifestyle than many, including china….. Caribbean people are strivers and achievers --- on the government level, well that’s a different kettle if fish