Model 737-8 MAX and 737-9 MAX aeroplanes.
Following the tragic accident of Ethiopian Airlines flight ET302 involving a Boeing 737 MAX 8, the European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) is taking every step necessary to ensure the safety of passengers.
As a precautionary measure, EASA has published today an Airworthiness Directive, effective as of 19:00 UTC, suspending all flight operations of all Boeing Model 737-8 MAX and 737-9 MAX aeroplanes in Europe. In addition EASA has published a Safety Directive, effective as of 19:00 UTC, suspending all commercial flights performed by third-country operators into, within or out of the EU of the above mentioned models.
Message Board Archives
The EU Aviation folks have banned all Boeing
In reply to Chrissy
Note to self check plane before boarding
I am not going on or to no Supermax
In reply to Runs
Why hasn't someone invented this yet?
In reply to Runs
I an not going on or to no Supermax
Why all this faux outrage Bro? Defective planes are everywhere, crashes happen, people die.
In reply to SnoopDog
I saw some folks walking across a pit of fire on social media. They were testing and having a feeling of how Hell will be according to their Pastor
In reply to Runs
Oh yeah. Well I see your bet and raise you twice:
Pastor claims insect repellent he used on his congregation in 2016 could heal cancer and HIV.
In reply to SnoopDog
Jail these vagabonds
In reply to SnoopDog
I appreciate your attempt at humour.
And the passive aggressive guy not pointing out to you that when people die it's not equivalent to money changing hands!
Of course, when the Christian guy was killed then life was not important to you lot then....oh well.
Shame on Boeing.
They should pay dearly for dragging their feet while people died because they want to protect their investments.
In reply to Ayenmol
Agree
HEre
In reply to Chrissy
I do not work in aviation nor educated in the field.
As a kid i always dreamed of being a pilot, so i keep up to an extent with the manufacturing industry and lovd Boeing.
The last few months i have been reading up on the fate of AirBus' A380.
This 737 was Boeing's answer as they went opposite AirBus' investment on large carriers due to Boeing's judgment of Market trends.
Now it seems like they too rushed the Aircraft.
Just unbelievable how these Corporations take lightly the life of those who use their equipment.
Even more disheartening is the part played by the respective Governments.
In reply to Ayenmol
Even more disheartening is the part played by the relative Governments.
Why all this faux outrage? Planes crash all the time. People die all the time. Governments pander to corporate interests all the time.
Nothing you do or say will change anything eh asshole?
Fcuking clown.
In reply to SnoopDog
I know you're hurt that i exposed you.
Get a grip dude dude. Control your anger.
People are dying. I will always and have always spoken up when lives are being bargained.
In reply to Ayenmol
Fatalism is a copout that simpletons such as yourself believe in and propagate.
In reply to Ayenmol
Good. I expect to see threads from you here bearing your bleeding heart and tormented soul each and every day there is an unjust murder on planet earth.
I'll ask Admin to make yours a special thread like the football fantasy one. It will be called "Non faux outrage".
Oh yes. I'm deeply wounded. Your brilliant logic has exposed us all. How can we possibly continue after this ignominy?
In reply to Runs
fa·tal·ism
noun
the belief that all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable.
"fatalism can breed indifference to the human costs of war"
a submissive outlook, resulting from a fatalistic attitude.
"he experienced a sense of fatalism that kept his fear at bay"
synonyms: passive acceptance, resignation, acceptance, acceptance of the inevitable, stoicism.
Do you know what the word means or are you just forming sentences with large words just to claim you are smarter than me because i exposed your infantile reasoning on another topic?
Because i do not believe in predestination.
Thanks for playing.
Can we at least keep the attacks to the appropriate threads?
I do read them all.
In reply to SnoopDog
Why thank you sir. No need to follow me though, it betrays your assertion.
In reply to Ayenmol
Your comments suggest you do, unless you have multiple personalities
which conflicts with each other
In reply to Runs
You keep trying to present yourself as an intellectual.
No one sees you as such.
I tell you what i am and what i believe then you say am something else.
Please tell me what i said that speaks to me believing in fatalism.
Am waiting.
In reply to Ayenmol
We will have no choice now but build a golden temple in your honour. And the people will rejoice and worship their new god Ayenmol the magnificent - defender of death by plane crashes and slayer of faux outrage. All hail Ayenmol!
In reply to Ayenmol
I do -I have loads of respect for Runs
In reply to SnoopDog
Only Jehovah is to ge Worshiped. Him alone deserves exclusive devotion.
I guess you all donxt like being proven wrong huh.
Take the L and move on dude.
No shame in that.
The discussion is over.
In reply to Ayenmol
I could care less what anyone thinks of me dude, am too old to harbor such juvenile dreams of grandeur.
Am just myself and that is fine with me, to the contrary I am an extremely humble guy.
In reply to Chrissy
Good on you.
In reply to Chrissy
Thank you kindly mam, much respect and reciprocated.
In reply to Ayenmol
Oh I don't mind being proven wrong. It's just that you will be the last person to actually prove me wrong.
All hail Ayenmol!
In reply to Runs
Still waiting for proof of the claims you made.
I took you all to task on a subject and you are so offended that you are picking a fight with me on a different thread on something completely unrelated.
Sorry but that tells me your avove words are nullified.
Argue against the points i made otherwise leave me alone!
Bullies!
In reply to SnoopDog
Sure, that's why you are following me around.
Because you are so well adjusted and able to debate an issue on it's merits.
Go cry somewhere else.
Faux outrage designed to push a narrative that is excused when looking at the same issue from a different demographic.
You can't refute it so you attack me on another thread to intimidate me.
What's the endgame?
In reply to Runs
Am just myself and that is fine with me
How dare you back talk and blaspheme our lord of unimpeachable logic, defender of death by plane crashes, and slayer of faux outrage lord god Ayenmol the Magnificent!
Make your way to the golden temple, carry with you two fine women, and fornicate before the golden idol of Ayenmol the Magnificent so he may grant you forgiveness.
In reply to Ayenmol
Except of course that you didn't raise any thing of merit to debate other than bleating on about some deep seeded paranoia stuck in the corner of your demented mind.
In reply to SnoopDog
Where's the crying emoji...,or the fiddle?
Enjoy!
Why didn't Boeing be proactive rather than reactive? Shareholders maybe?
After that Lion Air crash and this Ethiopian airline crash, they should not even wait for FAA and EASA.
A directive should have come out immediately from the manufacturer stating while they still think that flying on the 737 is safe, as a precautionary measure all airlines operating this particular variant should temporarily ground the planes until further notice and until it is determined what may have caused both crashes.
The problem with that would require Boeing to shell out large sums of money to these airlines for putting their planes out of service.
Isn't Boeing insured for these types of situations?
In reply to embsallie
Boeing claims they did issue a directive as to the issue, what the cause was and how to overide it.
The pilots say they were not aware of it.
So did Boieing issue it or did the airlines neglect to ensure their Pilots were made aware of it?
In any case not enough was done to ensure this would not occur again.
Essentially, faulty sensors may have been to blame for the Lion Air crash. The enhanced flight control law incorporates angle of attack (AOA) inputs, limits stabilizer trim commands in response to an erroneous angle of attack reading, and provides a limit to the stabilizer command in order to retain elevator authority, Boeing said in a statement about its software update.
Essentially, the sensors think the plane is stalling and they apply an opposite remedial action which trims an airplane down, Flying Magazine columnist and small-plane pilot Peter Garrison tells me. It then takes enormous force from the pilots to hold the nose up, rendering them unable to address the problem, he adds.
Once you are holding on to the controls for dear life you dont have any hands left to correct the problem, says Garrison. You expect that confronted in an emergency the pilot will analyze whats happening and act accordingly. Human beings dont necessarily panic, but they lose their ability to reason clearly and to weigh alternative hypotheses when they are under basically what is a threat of death. Even though it may seem obvious that all you have to do is interrupt the autopilot, amazingly that may not occur to a pilot who is hundreds of feet off the ground and has to pull back on a control yoke with hundreds of pounds of force.
According to Garrison, the blame on Boeing may be misplaced.
People like to talk about this as the airplane is defective and theyre correcting it with software, he says. Thats all nonsense. Planes today are a mix of automatic systems and by automatic I of course mean digital electronic systems and mechanical ones and the natural aerodynamics of the airplane, and you cant separate these.
In reply to Runs
Check this
Read the comments
In reply to Chrissy
Average pilots huh, unbelievable incompetence, will be sued into bankruptcy
Supermax also used to describe prisons.
In reply to Runs
This is the sort of take that makes me question just how aware you are of economics.
You think the American Government is going tk allow their pride and joy in aviation to be sued into bankruptcy by a foreign entity?
The Americans are yet to ground these planes, you think they share the World's oppinion on this?
Sadly, this will go quietly into the night.
In reply to Ayenmol
737 is a 50 year old air frame design,has nothing to do with A380,that would be the 777s and 787s,long range fuel efficient twin engine wide body aircraft..
A380 come and gone 777s now going into 'MAX' territory with larger offerings,with passenger capacities over over 400 and the 787s up to 300+..
They killed the A380,even Airbus is getting in on the action with their new A350,you guessed it,a wide body 2 engine long haul aircraft..
The 737 a single aisle ac was designed for shorter flights and more frequent cycles and has been updated many times before..it's the most successful passenger aircraft or any aircraft in history with over 10,000 made and sold,and projects to double that with the max..
Airbus is doing similar with their A320 'Neo',old air frame design single aisle aircraft like the 737 but with new engines,avionics,electronics etc..
The suspected problem with the new max is the computer MCAS system which basically takes some control from the pilot as he takes off to aid in a better trim to compensate for negative dynamics from the adaptation of much larger engines and landing gear on the 50 y.o blueprint..
There seems to be a training issue as well where Boeing kinda says they don't need to know certain things because it would be too much information for pilots to process and the computers would take care of it,now this.
This max program is Boeing's biggest jackpot since the 737 itself,a 50 y.o design!! Hope they can get to the bottom of this and rectify the glitch..
Sue Boeing into Bankruptcy? Keep dreaming.
Not even the Airbus people would want to see that. They got their own skeletons.
When you have two entities supplying the World with a particular piece of equipment, you take your lumps and move on, or pack up and go home.
Particularly when these companies are so greatlyy subsidized by Governments.
In reply to bravos
What are you talking about?
You just said what i said...well at least copy and pasted without credit...
AirBus made a huge gamble sinking billions into the A380 in an attempt to grab market share from Boeing and it's 747 segment.
Boeing, however had already decided to end the 747 program focussing on 2 engined long hauls and slimbody intermediate as it's bread and butter.
While Boeing has continued to use the old frame, the engines and avionics are all new.
In fact due to Airbus' A320 and it's success is why Boeing scrapped plans to build an all new 737 replacement back in 2011.
In reply to Ayenmol
This 737 was Boeing's answer as they went opposite AirBus'
investment on large carriers due to Boeing's judgment of Market trends.
You wrote that ok..
Just forget it,that's what happens when you take some people seriously..
I was talking about what you talking about?
A 737 has nothing to do with a 380,two completely different markets ok..
The 777 X and 787 was Boeing's answer ok ..t
they are different questions ok.
Airbus has their 320 NEO which is the answer to the MAX..
737s and A320s feed 777s,787s,A380s etc..
Airbus is level with Boeing in all ranges at the moment,the 737 max was an answer to a certain segment of the market,and the A380 tried to create a new market,and they still have it to a certain extent,some people fly A380 or nothing,but the 777s and 787s are eating away at that also..
In reply to bravos
Dude, it was two different approaches to the same market! They all serve the same general consumers.
Airbus banked on large hubs with small aircraft connecting.
While Boeing saw more small to midsize aircraft serving ever smaller hubs.
To put it simply.
My point regarding the A380 is it's role in sinking Airbus while the 737 was meant as the volume seller of the future in accordance with the 777 and 787.
In reply to Ayenmol
Same approach...only deviation was the A380 and that was an ego/vanity project..
The A320 NEO is Airbus' 737 MAX..
The A350 is Airbus' 787 .
The 777x is Boeing's A380 killer.
In reply to bravos
Heres a good read...Link Text
In reply to bravos
Ego and vanity played a huge part, but this was based on a market miscalculation.
The ego came into the costly assembly program due to the member Nations all wanting a piece of the pie.
But the decision was doomed and the market shifted mid development and they dic not adjust.
In reply to Ayenmol
I resent that.
In reply to bravos
Was a good summarisation.
In reply to Ayenmol
Now we're getting somewhere..
US pilots complained
Link Text
In reply to Runs
Best report yet
In reply to Runs
FYI-
I do recognize your intellectual side.
In reply to Chrissy
Incompetence at its best, who voted for this guy?
In reply to Emir
SAW Imam, we all are blessed with such. Thanks
In reply to Runs
Canada just banned the Max from taking off, landing or flying in Canadian air space.
In reply to Chrissy
And Ethiopia using EU investigators, does not trust the US, wow. How far has this country fallen in credibility?
In reply to Runs
US finally grounds them - when they reach their destinations
In reply to Chrissy
At least they are getting to their destination.
Got a friend here who works with one of the major airlines as an attendant.
Happy she wont have to face that decision.
In reply to Chrissy
Finally.
In reply to Chrissy
Guy said he grounded for psychological reasons, no am not making this stuff up
In reply to Runs
When you decide not to take a chance based on a trend then yes, it is psychological.
These airplanes have been in the Air for a while. They are prone to a certain issue and have cost people their lives. Thus although most people believe they will arrive at their destinations safely, psychologically they feel like they are taking an unnecessary risk with their lives.
In reply to Ayenmol
Idiot, they were grounded for safety reason. Boeing admitted a software issue, we will soon see if that was a cause as in the Indonesian crash.
What is wrong with your thinking, recalibrate brother
DT was not ready to trust Murphys Law god forbid one went down in the US. The odds were stacked against him with every nation grounding their fleet.
He is pretty dumb but not totally then again an advisor may have convinced him finally phewwww
In reply to Runs
Dude, it is a psychological reaction that forces everyone to take pause.
You do realize that the Black box from this newest crash has not been analized?
That Boeing is the one who has said why they believe the crashes have occurred?
That they have provided a simple way to deal with the issue?
The planes are not blowing up...there is an automatic response from the aircraft that can be turned of by the pilots and nullify the issue!
And the upcoming update from Voeing is going to do exactly what the pilots are capable of doing!
Thus the decision is made to alleviate the fear that people have of the current situation!
Otherwise all the planes woulda been crashing daily!
There have been reports of pilots taking the proper steps to fix the issue in similar situations already.
As usual you all take the over the top approach and drama of the situation over the truth.
The planes have an issue with a sensor that could be easily overidden but somehow the Pilots were unaware. Now they are.
You do realize that there are tons of issues pilots face that are alleviated by their ability to diagnose these issues, right?
In reply to Ayenmol
Dr. Freud would have had a field day with this one.
There are other variables we may not be aware of that could affect when this happens. You have no idea. Could be loading. Could be maintenance. Climate. Weather etc!
From the first crash Boeing should have either fixed the issue or made certain all pilots were well aware of the tendency. But all this drama now is over the top and posturing.
Mob mentality.
Psychological!
Would i board one of these? Probably not...because i would not want to put myself in that situation.
Psychlogical.
In reply to SnoopDog
I realize it's the incorrect spelling. Anything else?
In reply to Ayenmol
I know you've never had the benefit of higher education but just Google "Freudian slip". All will be revealed.
In reply to SnoopDog
In reply to SnoopDog
In reply to Ayenmol
Knowingly getting on a plane with potential technical issues which have resulted in at least one crash and possibly 2 within the last 5 months is the definition of insanity
How is that for over the top?
In reply to SnoopDog
Aw....yes sir...anal. awww...anything else?
In reply to Runs
And what is insanity?
In reply to Ayenmol
Forget it dude, you are hopeless
In reply to Runs
No don't forget it...what is insanity?...you see how you are coming right back to my point so you wanna run?
No wonder you call youself runs!
Where do you find the study of insanity?
Pshychology...that's where. We are dealing with matters of of perception and the mind! It's a case study in psychology!
There is no reason to believe that every one of these planes are dangerous, but based on the risk the Authorities are removing the psychological issue that every passenger faced with this decision would have to make.
Again you can come with your one line dismissal and umpteen emoji's, you cannont dispute that.
Why you all will always hate me...because i provide a reason for what i say.
You all make statements then want to claim...hey am educated so am right!
Ha! What a bunch of nonsense. Educated fools. Buncha people who can only argue when told what to argue!
In reply to Ayenmol
They are grounding the planes to investigate potential software issues that resulted in crashes and loss of life.
I expect the planes to remain grounded until these issues are fixed.
By the way Ad Hominem attacks will not win debates
In reply to Runs
TUrns out we were right from the first thread - ground the blasted aircraft - safety first.
He must have heard that airline crews were going to act.
Mental midgets are quick to rely on public perception in reacting to everything.
Trump is an idiot. Therefore Trump says something that i have never heard before, thus that thing is wrong.
Nonsense! Be smart enough to analyze everything on it's own merit.
No doubt someone or persons argued that while there might be assurances from Boeing and questions surrounding the circumstances of these crashes, that there exist a psychological issue that make it untenable to force American workers and public to continue to board these planes in view of these coccuranc3s and it would be best to ground the Aircraft.
Good decision. I see no reason to think the use of psychological issues would be laughed at but by someone just looking to be a dope!
In reply to Chrissy
Yep
In reply to Runs
Can you show me where that was vocalized.
It seems to me they are grounding the planes because the Public and the Airline workers are scared to board it , though Boeing says the issue is a simple fix and after reading about the issue it seems like that is the case.
Have you read about the cause as it is being described and how the aircraft can be controlled when it exhibits the issues that it is believed caused the crash?
In reply to Ayenmol
I have and obviously you did not, or need an interpreter
It is ok, re-read the reports.
In reply to Runs
So post it! Or are you too well respected to back up your words with proof?
In reply to Ayenmol
Hell no, I am no Admin Assistant sir. Chrissy posted and I did you go back and peruse, also google is YOUR friend.
In reply to Runs
The only reason Boeing is now saying ground ghe planes is because of the growing hysteria. They have been aware of this, and as i said well before you saw fit to join the discussion, because most of you only jump on the bandwagon once the hysteria is at optimum, they knew of this and even issued a directive to combat the auto imput that sent the airplane 8n a dive!
If they were concerned about people, they would have shut it down right after fhe crash!
If the Public had not become so scared of the implications of fkying on the aircraft you think they would have made that decision?
No. They were forced to!
In reply to Ayenmol
Boeing pilots complained at least five times about flying the 737 Max 8 in the last few months, according to Politico. In one case, a commercial airline pilot reported that they turned on autopilot and "within two to three seconds the aircraft pitched nose down. The plane reportedly returned to normal after autopilot was disengaged.
Several months ago, one captain called the flight manual "inadequate and almost criminally insufficient, according to the Dallas Morning News. Numerous safety questions about the plane have been raised since the crashes, including whether pilots received adequate training. The New York Times reported before the Ethiopian Airlines crash Boeing and the FAA determined that pilots didnt need to know about a change in the 737 flight control system that could make aircraft prone to stalling.
You dont fix whats not broken, it is a Boeing problem.
The MCAS software update includes a new "enhanced flight control law," a Boeing spokesperson said, which "incorporates [AOA] inputs, limits stabilizer trim commands in response to an erroneous angle of attack reading, and provides a limit to the stabilizer command in order to retain elevator authority."
In other words, it uses multiple sensor inputs to determine whether adjustments to the flight controls are necessary, giving the pilot direct control over the tail control surfaces to override any automatic adjustments. Currently, the pilot would have to entirely disable automatic stabilizer trim to counteract "stabilizer trim runaway" in the event of a sensor error.
link
In reply to Runs
Is that not the issue? And the fix?
All what you just said is what i have been saying...not as much the aircraft as the obvious lack of training or communications between those in the know and those who need to know.
There is a reason that Pilots are trained to fly a particular aircraft...you do not simply plump into a pilots sit on any aircraft and go!
As much as there is an issue with these aircraft it seems that had the pilots been properly trained to anticipate it, the loss of life would have been avoided.
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